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Community Create-A-Team: Forgotten Wonders (LC)

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Heysup, Oct 2, 2009.

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Which Pokemon should we base the CCAT around?

  1. Life Orb Eevee

    117 vote(s)
    56.5%
  2. Wynaut

    90 vote(s)
    43.5%
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  1. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I guess step 2 might have been a bit fast, but there was really no real opposition to our main point: this is the first CCAT team, and should be standard-ish as such. It is really the point of the first CCAT to involve new users and old users alike in building a standard team. I don't think doing Weather or TR would truly fulfill that goal. Not to mention it got support from people in IRC who are waiting for us to be on step 3 to start posting (vader for example). Vader and kannon both favor offense.

    So we are officially using Offense. Let's keep this on topic now and decide on some sweepers to pair with Wynaut. I think we were on to something with SD Gligar, DD Tini, and an Ice Resist.
  2. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    HYU, perhaps there hasnt been much objection due to the fact that people havent actually even viewed the thread topic

    Also, the very point you have made about IRC is what I have just said: "vader and kannon favour offense". This does not mean that the community itself favours offense, now does it?

    Unless you want to go by a non communal process of so and so knows best, step 2 has definately been rushed. Just look at how long CCAT #1 and #2 took, they have been catering to all of the community, not a select few, which is what this CCAT is currently heading towards

    My argument is not against Offense, it is against the whole way we are going about this very crucial step
  3. v

    v the last abortionbender
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    Weather team with Wynaut would just be tacking it on to cover your bases. A team based around Wynaut, in my opinion, is best as a team with around a central set-up sweeper. For this reason, I propose using a Pokemon such as Agility Mantyke, Agility Chinchou, Dragon Dance Dratini or Rock Polish Aron as the main sweeper in conjunction with another set-up Pokemon such as Bronzor to further aid in the Pokemon's sweep. Using two of the listed sweepers in conjunction with Wynaut and Bronzor could easily ensure a sweep by one of them.
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Are you suggesting a Dual Screen Bronzor? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by using Bronzor as a set up Mon. Though, Dual Screen could be cool, Light Clay DS + Wynaut + Stat up sweeper might be a possibility.
  5. Seven Deadly Sins

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    This specific step can be "rushed through" simply because it is obvious which team style goes with Wynaut. Wynaut provides nearly no support for environmental teams- you build your rain/sun/hail/tr/whatever team and then stick Wynaut in the middle of it to do whatever. With Offense, Wynaut can be built around. Since the objective of CCAT is to build a team *around* an underappreciated Pokemon, obviously you want to use the style that goes best with that Pokemon.
  6. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Ok I am going to be completely random and suggest the following as the set up sweeper

    Larvitar @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 36 HP / 244 Atk / 188 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Dragon Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    -Crunch / Filler which hits bronzor


    DD Tar reaches a phenomenal 32 Attack and 21 Speed after one DD + a Guts boost. QuakeEdge gets STAB as well as being unresisted barring Bronzor, for which we can run a lure or Magnemite
    I feel that even though this might not be the end all sweeper, it would be excellent for wrecking midgame, provided Gunk and AJ users are taken out. Gunk will die to a feigned water choice user carrying HP Psychic as a lure, while AJ users such as Kabuto and Squirtle can be dealt with without much hassle.

    This has much more firepower than Aron, as 32 attack and 150 BP will do much more than 17 Attack and 225 BP, and needs exactly Wynaut to a) take out scarfers, esp fighting ones such as Machop, and b) give it a turn to set up

    With wish support in the Form of Lickitung or Eevee, this can be easily feasible, and will be devastating
  7. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Hmm, I've never tried DDTar with Wynaut, and I don't know why....It looks brilliant. It's definitely worth testing, my only fear is its huge weakness to priority, but with the right support it could definitely be devastating. It's definitely something we should consider and test.
  8. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    It IS extremely weak to priority, that is extremely true

    However if we look at main priority users:

    Croagunk:
    Lured and beaten by stuff like HP Flying Mantyke. Alternately we could use an ExpertBelted Wailmer to force stuff out, and then smack the Gunk with HP Flying or HP Psychic. Highly specialised yes, not good at sweeping, yes, BUT, effective at taking out gunk = YES.

    Stunky
    This is a hard one, but recently I have been testing Destiny Bond on Gastly and Misdreavus. Simply, you use Destiny Bond on the Stunky when they Pursuit, and you will take down a big priority user while losing your own. Gastly can be especially expendable by using Sub DBond Shadow Ball Explosion. It would be better to Sub Up on the Stunky, as they often SUcker Punch. Once they break the Sub, use Destiny bond as they Pursuit to KO you. On Munchlax just try and avoid protect and Explode

    Squirtle / Kabuto: Ok I have no clue what to do for these, partly because I odnt see them that often.

    Houndour:
    iono, maybe a Mach Punching Fire Type like Magby, however most of these tend to be scarfed so they shoudlnt be too much of a problem

    Speaking of which, we need a Houndour counter if we want to run Wynaut effectively, as Wynaut can not even MCoat a Flamethrower
  9. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Very true, also for Misdreavus, I'm thinking either Munchlax or Lickitung. Munchlax can wall them much more effectively, however the Wish support from Lickitung is nothing to scoff at. We could always run Stunky too.
  10. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Lickitung and Stunky take shitloads from Fire Blast, even without LO boost

    We are pretty much looking at Munchlax here, which is again fantastic fighter bait for Wynaut

    However now using Lickitung or Eevee for Wish support is idiotic, and now we will have to run without Wish Support

    Or else, we could always run Manktyke, kill two birds with one stone: Croa lure and Houndour check. Im sure that 120 SpD can help take a Dark Pulse, other stuff is resisted. ScarfDour is really the only Dour that threatens us too much.

    mantyke can also start off the midgame / lategame set up sweep should we get a few chances to set up
  11. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    That's true. Mantyke is also a good option, and it can be the "other" sweeper. So the team could be something along the lines of Lead/Wynaut/Wisher/Agilityke/DDTar/Sweeper. That way we can deal with Houndour more effectively.

    Though, Missy is being overlooked here I think, that's why I think it's still safer to use Munchlax.
  12. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Why not both?

    Munchlax can be used over the last sweeper slot, and it has enough firepower to wreck stuff when on the switchin

    Also, for the Wisher we can run yet another fighting weak mon in Eevee. LO Eevee is great , exceptthat we use Wish over your standard coverage move like Iron Tail or some random HP. Eevee can also work well in that you Wish as their scarffighter will switch in, and send in Wynaut as its health is restored by the Wish, recovering off damage and being able to Counter KO

    However this is becoming inheerently reliant on Wynaut, and once it dies we will lose p badly to a ScarfChop or Scarf Mankey :/

    Missy is a bitch, yeah
  13. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I think we are trying to support Wynaut too much if we keep adding those Pokemon. Wynaut is the ultimate supporter, by adding so many support non-set up mons, we will lose valuable slots for sweepers and revenge killers.
  14. [Hero]

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    [​IMG]

    Croakunk @ Life Orb/Oran Berry
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spd
    Nature: Adamant
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Bullet Punch/Rock Slide


    With Wynauts ability to completely abuse Encore the possibilities for Croagunk are endless. With a 150 STAB attack coming from a respectable 16 attack it also packs a massive punch (no pun intended) and can severely dent anything that doesn't resist it.

    Sucker Punch gives it some much needed priority to hit any Misdreavus/ScarfGastly and the like that are likely to come in and try to ruin Croagunks day.

    With Wynaut being the centre of the team I think this fits it perfectly.
  15. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    I must agree, HYU.

    I think we should sopt and think for a second: Why are we using Wynaut, apart from it being the focus, as in What role is Wynaut serving here ?

    The two likely answers are:

    1) To revenge scarfers, allowing a fast Pokemon to sweep without any hindrance

    If this is so, then the perfect sweeper here would be Elekid. Elekid outspeeds everything unscarfed in Little Cup barring Voltorb and DIglett, but it is often stoppedin its track by Scarfers, who can easily OHKO it. With Wynaut, Elekid gains just the support to be able to sweep near mid game to late game once its counters are weakened.

    Other options that do not require a turn to set up include Taillow and Teddiursa. Both of these have a massive attack stat and a STAB Facade, and can come in on a resisted move, like the omnipresent Missy's Shadow Ball. Infact, Teddiursa can come in on the Shadow Ball, activate its Quick Feet and OHKO Missy with Crunch. Taillow gets a powerful second STAB and STAB Priority, as well as U-Turn.

    In case we are running WYnaut for this, then Wish support would definately be important, as Wynaut needs the extra HP Gain to be able to CounterCoat Scarfers one more time in case the opponent packs two of them. After that we can just build around our main sweepers, add something that weakens stuff midgame and have reliable checks to common threats

    2) To provide a free set up turn for sweepers via Encore

    This is the direction we are heading towards currently and IMO, upon reflection it doesnt require much Wish Support at all, as provided we can weaken stuff midgame and eliminate checks, our Set up Sweeper should be able to sweeeep through the remainder of the team.

    There are tons of options here, however we must choose something that provides the best tradeoff between Power and Speed. RP Tar is a good example, reaching 25 attack and 26 speed, which even outspeeds many common scarfers such as Machop and Mankey, as well as some Houndour. RP Gligar loses a little power for added bulk. Agility Krabby reaches a phenomenal unboosted attack stat while getting 28 speed after one Agility. The downside is poor coverage and relying on CrabHammer for STAB. RP Cranidos is often overlooked due to weakness to priority, but with a team centered around it, it can be a force to be reckoned with, attaining 24 attack and 30 speed after one Rock Polish. Its phenomenal ability, Mold Breaker, also allows it to hit Bronzor and Misdreavus, rendering the opponent's "ground insurance" useless. DDtini is as formidable as ever and is certainly something to look into, although IMO people are too prepared for it nowadays for it to pull off a complete sweep. If I havent said anything here, its just because I have been looking at the less common options as they are the ones which people are not prepared for.

    --------------​

    That was my take on the team building processes we can use to build our team
  16. iss

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    We definitly should use the Encore option. This is much more threatening, and Wynaut can still CounterCoat once, if not twice, to benefit our team.
  17. Heysup

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    Well we'd definitely put Ice Punch in the last slot, but its an option. SubPunch Gunk is terribly threatening, and can rip teams apart if it sets up at the right time. Definitely an option to consider.

    I think we can, should, and will use both of the options. In order for Wynaut to reach its full potential, we are going to need to use both. Countering is good when you want to rid yourself of a scarfer / revenge killer, while Encoring lets you set up after that.
  18. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Okay, so lets get a bit of a consensus for our first teammate:

    DD Dratini
    SD Gligar
    DD/RP Tar
    SubGunk
    NP Missy
    <Other>
  19. Dubulous

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    I think either of the Dragons would be fun to use. DD Dratini absolutely wreaks havoc on everything but Ghosts if it gets a Dance in, which it will be able to do thanks to Wynaut. However, if we want to stick to the "Forgotten" theme we might want to use Larvitar, though it admittedly less effective than Dratini because of it's lack of priority. I think we should avoid using mons like Missy, Gligar and Croagunk because they may prove to be effective teammates further along the team building process.
  20. Mattman324

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    DDtini seems to be the best choice out of those that isn't massively overused, and nigh on uber (that would be Mismagius)
  21. Seven Deadly Sins

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    I'd like to put this on hold until a decision is reached regarding Berry Juice, if that's okay with all of you.
  22. Black Buddha

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    I hope you dont mind if we continue discussing pros and cons of the listed sweepers

    DDTini- Well this thing is pretty game changing mid-late game, however for it to completely sweep we will require some mroe support and more sweepers to weaken its common counters

    SDGligar- We will need to run some sort of Missy check, as we are relying on a 50% chance of winning the speed tie multiplied by 80% chance of hitting with the Stone Edge, giving a 40% chance of KOing overall(right?). Missy could KO back with Shadow Ball + SSneak, although Im not tooo sure

    DD/RPTar: Need to patch up prioirty weak, but other than that nothing really stops it apart from Bronzor

    SubGunk: Seems good, but SubGunk is not something that will be sweeping whole teams anytime soon. SubGunk is more of a "lure" in that it KOs most of Gunk's common checks as well as weakening walls in general. Maybe this should be left aside for supporting wall breakers.

    NPMIssy: Absolutely devasttaing with Salac Lategame. I can see a simple plan of hiding Missy + Naut till lategame, while keeping on the offensive with a core of a scarfer and a midgame sweeper, and running DBond Gastly to take out Stunky, allowing Missy to p[otentially sweep later on.

    Thats my opinion on the general list of sweepers
  23. iss

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    Agility Krabby- Great raw power, and it's defense is really good (base 95), so it can set up on resisted or weak phsyical attacks Encored by Wynaut.

    And you can KO missy after a sd with atail
  24. Mailman

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    Rock Polish Aron can be considered as a sweeper since it is very difficult to set up and struggles against really fast scarfers but once it's going it deals massive damage
  25. Heysup

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    So this is officially re-opened!

    Lets continue with the discussion of partners for Wynaut. I'm personally leaning towards DDtini and Gligar due to them being so hard to stop after one turn of set up, as long as we fill the team with some sort of Ice resists.
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