Community Create-A-Team: Forgotten Wonders (LC)

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Heysup, Oct 2, 2009.

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Which Pokemon should we base the CCAT around?

  1. Life Orb Eevee

    117 vote(s)
    56.5%
  2. Wynaut

    90 vote(s)
    43.5%
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  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Chinchou is many things, but a Krabby counter it is not. If you're relying on Chinchou to deal with Krabby, you better not be relying on it for ANYTHING else. Krabby's LO Return does 79.17% - 95.83%, a 53% chance to OHKO after SR. Anything less than that and Chinchou is done for.
  2. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    I think I'm quite fond of using Wynaut to remove Ice attackers (since they are generally weak attacks), and using Dratini and Gligar as set up Pokemon. We can also have some Ice-resist Scarfer as back-up.
  3. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Im still going to go strong with Larvitar. RP Tars only weakness is priority, and the most common priority mon that can KO it quite easily is Croagunk. Croagunk manages piss against Wynaut, as Wynaut can encore Sucker Punches and Encore Counter Coat its other attacks.

    Wynaut here can easily take out Gunk, then encore some electric move ( Elekid or Mantyke with HP Electric are okay choices) or set up moves and just go to Larvitar. RP up, Guts activate, and proceed to sweep.

    I agree that this is coulping up on Ice Weakness, but atleast Dratini can be a go to guy for water moves.

    As for the potential teammates, I think we could effectivley use a Hazard Lead, like maybe Anti-lead omanyte but with Spikes > SR and a general annoyer which can phaze. I think this would greatly beenfit us as a) this team is about giving sweepers a free set up turn. Our sweepers are suchthat one set up turn can possibly result in a loss for the opponent straight away. This way we can use the other team slots for support such as hazards and phazers. Another reason is that we often see stuff just missing out on the KO. with Spikes and SR this can often be turned into an OHKO.

    For the support phazer Id like to suggest Slowpoke . With a moveset of T-Wave / Yawn / Waterfall and ZButt or Return, SLowpoke is a general annoyance for nearly every physical threat. Paralysis is extremely helpful if you can paralyse a scarfer, as then DDTar can be viable due to there being nothing faster then it or tieing with it. Yawn might seem counter productive with TWave, but consider the fact that when you Yawn, your opponent can either stay in and get slept, allowing for a free switch in, or switch out and make the next mon take entry hazard damage. Slowpoke could potentially go Yawn -> Yawn to catch the next mon on the switch. The Vital Spiritful Mankey can do jack shit against Slowpoke. Slowpoke can also run Slack Off over Waterfall or Zen Headbutt for recvoery, but I doubt that it would need it that often.

    Other mons that come to mind here in the case of status spreading are Double Powder Paras , who can Spore and follow up with Stun Spore to cripple two Pokemon straight off the bat, and possibly a Venonat lead with Agility / Sleep Powder / Stun Spore / Baton Pass. I say Venonat as a lead because potentially, if you have a member of the team slept, another one paralysed, you can simply just pass the Agility to Larvitar and start sweeping at the start of the match. Dratini can perform an easy clean up later on

    tl;dr:

    Team can use Hazards and Phazing
    Omanyte / Venonat are possible leads
    Slowpoke is a possible general support mon
    Larvitar is the pokemon with the highest average between badass and outright cute
  4. iss

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    Using Hazards and Phazing to weaken the opposing team so Larvitar/whatever can sweep is kinda taking the focus off Wynaut. However, using a Venonat agility passing lead could be useful. Remenber, we are building a team around Wynaut, not including Wynaut. While surely having a non-Wynaut sweep say, 50% of the time would still be using it, in this stage what we are doing is simply saying, "Let's use the other mons' to set up and sweep and keep Wynaut in reserve for an emergency or revenge kill." Using Wynaut this way is should not be the focus of this CCAT.
  5. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    I guess I did not get my point across clearly

    We are still focusing on a Wynaut support sweep, but the Hazards are meant to soften up the opponent for the sweep. Larvitar would still need the Wynaut support to actually set up, but the hazards will turn 2hkoes into ohkoes.

    Venonat pass is more of a "lets get a early sweep going to get the momentum". You will be sacrificing a mon to ensure that you have done some good damage to the opponent. Alternatively, you could use it as a scare tactic and look at their counters / checks. Then simply save the recipient for a later sweep once you go about eliminating the check you scouted for

    Hazards are still just a side thing, something to soften up the opponent while scouting the team through phazers
  6. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    The trouble with this is that we don't have enough room to carry all of these Pokemon. We are already using Wynaut and Dratini, and I don't think we have room for a Ghost counter, Revenge killer, Lead, secondary sweeper, AND a double powder Pokemon or Slowpoke as a support mon or a Spike lead (Stealth Rock is more important in LC).

    However I'll add Larvitar to the list of possible secondary sweepers.

    I think we are taking a bit too long on this step, and every Pokemon is getting equal support.

    So everyone post their vote with (valid) reasoning in this thread. If you have already stated your reasoning, just quote the post with the reasoning in it.

    So our options:

    Nasty Plot Misdreavus

    Swords Dance Gligar

    Rock Polish Larvitar

    Agility Chinchou

    Agility Mantyke

    Agility Krabby

    I'll post my vote at the end. Bold your vote!
  7. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    My votes:

    RP / DD (still possible) Larvitar
    Larvitar is just the kind of mon that requires a little support to shine. RP with 25 Attack will hurt, especially with STAB QuakeEdge. Larvitar can soften up the opponents team for a Dratini sweep or vice versa. All we need is something to check Gunk and we're practically set!

    NP Missy
    NP Missy is excellent here, as Dratini can easily dispose of Munchlax and Stunky with a boosted Outrage or Extremespeed. NP Missy with LO greatly appreciates the removal of scarfers, given to us by Wynaut.

    Agili CHou anmd Krabby dont seem to click for me, since both are especially underwhelming IMO.
  8. iss

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    Swords Dance Gligar

    Nasty Plot Misdreavus


    Both of these mons' love the removal of scarfers. SD Gligar fears ScarfChop, Scarf Mankey and Elekid. Wynaut can remove all three and let Gligar sweep. MissyD has problems with Munchlax and Stunky, as stated by MGX.
  9. Dubulous

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    Having our two main sweepers weak to ice attacks, which would be the case if we used Gligar, is unappealing to me because Ice attacks are somewhat common because they take down Gligar, who is such a huge threat. Wynaut might not be able to remove more than one Ice user per game, and I think it is an unnessecary risk.

    I've yet to see a Krabby with Life Orb.
  10. Maris

    Maris

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    I vote agility krabby. It resists ice attacks and can provide bulk for dratini. It benefits from wynaut's support to remove chinchao and elekid. It relives wynaut of some duties. And dratini handles the duties that krabby need fufilied. Also by the same token i vote agility chinchao
  11. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    DD Larvitar

    NP Misdreavus

    After that, we desprately need support. Four pokemon based on the sweep? Come on!
  12. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Reasoning?

    I support:

    NP Missy

    SD Gligar.

    Both of these Pokemon absolutely rape after a single boost, which is what Wynaut will get them. They also carry a very very important immunity to ground and a resistance/immunity to fighting. Setting up on Ground attacks are very common.
  13. Dubulous

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    The only reason that I do not want to run NP Missy is because of the team's theme: Forgotten Wonders. Nowadays NP Missy is soooo sickeningly common (myself included) and I think this project is a good opportunity to branch away from the "bog standard" (if that even exists in the metagame).

    I would support running Gligar if that is what we decided to do, though I would rather see something else being used. Now that Missy has gotten NP, I hardly see any Gligars running around and it can really dominate teams. The only issue is that these are both suspects, and this team (in my opinion) should be used as a guideline in the future for new players wanting to give Little Cup a try. If we make this team and then end up banning Gligar/Misdreavus then we essentially take away what can be a useful resource in the future.
  14. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Wynaut is the forgotten wonder, whatever we use around him doesn't matter, there is no theme except for Wynaut atm.

    If that's the only reason to not use Missy, then I think we have ourselves a winner. Any last objections to using Missy?
  15. Maris

    Maris

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    well i also support using missy. i also would like to make a segestion on a set

    NP
    Shadow ball
    hidden power ground
    sub/WOW/SS
    item choice depends on last move
    sub = salac
    WOW = oran
    SS = life orb.
    Honestly why dont people run HP ground? It OHKOs stunky the primary counter to missy. shadow sneek will get rid of ghastly if we fear it. If we do not fear ghastly we could run will o wisp to hurt munchlax. or we could run Sub to get down scarfed houdour.
  16. sbc

    sbc

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    Perhaps we could go with something more inspiring than Missy, maybe Drifloon could be a more effective BPer with Wynaut support instead.
  17. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Drifloon BPing Calm Minds and a Salac Berry to Porygon seems like it could be absolutely amazing. Porygon can hit the sexy 21 speed with a Salac, and if it can get a CM boost or two it can be semi-unstoppable with Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting. The only real problem I can see is Scarfed fighting-types... but we have Wynaut !

    Supporting a core of Wynaut / BP SubSalac Drifloon / Porygon.

    EDIT: Other choices for recipient include Omanyte, which has solid physical Defense and can take some mad hits after CM boosts, or possibly Mantyke, which after Agility and a CM boost can become nigh unstoppable. GANLON BERRY PASS TO AGILITYKEGOGOGOGO
  18. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    My issue with BP in LC is that it's so easy to break. Like, what's stopping a strong Pokemon from coming in and fucking up the BP process? Or, some Pokemon just coming in and attacking as you set up and BP to Porygon...then you get met with Munchlax and Drifloon is basically useless.

    That's why I'd rather something like NP Missy or SD Gligar, because they are able to destroy shit after 1 turn, and don't stop being useful after 1 set up chance.
  19. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Munchlax doesn't wall Porygon, considering that +1 Porygon's HP Fighting does a significant amount to it (+2 can 2HKO, achievable through either multiple Calm Mind boosts or a Download boost), and Munchlax can't 2HKO without a boosting item, which lets it get 2KOed by +1.

    I can understand the issue, but I'd say that with Wynaut support we (maybe someone here) should at least give Baton Pass a shot. Even short BP chains can be extremely effective, as they can punch holes in teams and even if they don't sweep outright, they can significantly wound an opposing team.
  20. sbc

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    Baton Pass is effective in LC as long as the recipient and the passer have good synergy. I used a Gligar to pass Sword Dance to Buizel before, which was effective as Gligar lured out things like Gyro Ball Bronzor and random Ice Shards, and other water and ice attacks which effectively gave Buizel the opportunity to come in unscathed. Buizel could make use of Swords Dance better than most because of its good defensive typing, already high speed and STAB priority making it hard to revenge kill with frail scarfers and and priority.

    I wouldn't be too keen on Drifloon to Porygon since Porygon doesn't have the resists to sponge an Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Dark attack aimed at Drifloon and it is weak to Croagunk's Vacuum Wave. Off the top of my head, Magnemite could have typing synergy with Drifloon if we go down the BP route, as does Chinchou (sexy dual stab and boltbeam resist).
  21. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    I wanted to avoid a recipient weak to Vacuum Wave, but all the best BP recipients are weak to it... Porygon, Omanyte, Magnemite, etc. I picked Porygon because it has tons of bulk and solid power.
  22. Dubulous

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    I really like the idea of Buizel as a BP recipient. With a Swords Dance it reaches 32 Attack (+ Nature, Max EVs) which can put a hurt on anyone. It has unresisted double priority with Aqua Jet and Quick Attack. I can see a set like AJ/QA/Return/Waterfall working out pretty nicely (the only other moves of "note" it gets are Iron Tail (lol) and Ice Punch, which would really only help with Gligar).

    It also hits 19 speed if we think that is necessary.
  23. sbc

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    If it's that big an issue, I think we could have a Croagunk lure on the team if we decide to go with BP as the main theme.
  24. Seven Deadly Sins

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    Wynaut destroys Croagunk pretty hard too, can't forget about that.
  25. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Hmm...it seems we are drifting down this route then?

    Lead
    Wynaut
    Dratini
    Baton Passer
    Recipient
    "Revenge Killer/Missy Counter/Etc...

    If we are set on doing a 2-Pokemon BP strategy, I really think the best way to go is probably something like Gligar and Totodile or Buizel (something that can take a hit better ideally, I just can't think of any Ice resists that aren't weak to VW atm). In the last slot we can put Munchlax to stop Missy and soak ice attacks as well.
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