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Community Create-A-Team: Forgotten Wonders (LC)

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Heysup, Oct 2, 2009.

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Which Pokemon should we base the CCAT around?

  1. Life Orb Eevee

    117 vote(s)
    56.5%
  2. Wynaut

    90 vote(s)
    43.5%
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  1. Sledge

    Sledge

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    NP Missy
    SD Gligar

    I support those because we have to think about building the team around wynaut. Wynaut's best at revengeing scarfers. The best answers to the 2 pokemon above are scarfers. A speed boosting poke seems quite unecessary as it will own most scarfers anyway. Considering the team we have in place right now, those two seems to me the best options due to not only their massive sweeping potential, but great synergy with wynaut.
  2. Maris

    Maris

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    I will support agility mantyke. after a agility it has 28 speed. enough to outspeed most scarfers. with HP grass/flying it sweeps teams. the problem with gligar/missy is that they can be outspeed by a scarfer. as one knows most sucessful LC teams use 2-4 scarfers depending on the team. Also mantyke has water absorb great if mantyke swiches into a scarfed water attack (happens somtimes) or if you need to kill a bellywag. also agility mantyke after 1 agility can (and useally does) kill 3-4 pokes before dying to life orb. If by some miracle a scarfed gligar uses EQ you send in mantyke and sweep.
    in short
    immunities
    water ground
    wynaut needs to kill
    munchlax
    chinchou
    good lead support?
    SR
    snover (blizard and HP grass moveset changes)
    setup turns
    1
    speed after setup
    28-30
    defesive stats
    12 def 18 spD 21 hp
    OO
    oran instead of LO more bulk loses OHKOs no worrys about croagunk coming in and ruining the sweep.
    HP grass to hurt a dented chinchou and +1 HP
  3. Sledge

    Sledge

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    Like I said we have Wynaut to deal with scarfers who would outspeed np missy/sd gligar. While wynaut can't take out 4 scarfers, most of the time teams don't carry that many.

    While mantyke does boast 2 great immunities, gligar and missy got some as well. They both have the ground immunity, gligar has an immunity to electric(which is addmitedley less commmon one of the main switch ins could come against elekid of agility chinchou, who have the potential to OHKO back), missy has fighting and normal, which effectivley nullifies the immunity agrument for mantyke.

    Also if you are running LO on mantyke, or Oran for that matter, you can get weakened while setting up and possibly finished off by priority, say a sucker punch form crogunk:

    16 Atk vs 12 Def & 22 HP (80 Base Power): 8 - 10 (36.36% - 45.45%)

    While this may seem a bit lack luster, you must factor in damage while setting up, possible previous LO recoil, and also importantly, stealth rock. Now the same 'gunk vs. gligar

    16 Atk vs 17 Def & 23 HP (80 Base Power): 6 - 8 (26.09% - 34.78%)

    Gligar is of course able to OHKO back with EQ afterwrds. Gligar does much better vs. priority given that most priority attacks are phsical and also very importantly is not weak to stealth rock. For all these reasons SD Gligar IMO is the way to go. (Of course missy is always an option.)
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I really think Mantyke is being underestimated, but Gligar and Missy are both really good as well.

    I'm really not sure at this point.
  5. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Sorry for the double post, but lets get this done!

    Mantyke vs Missy vs Gligar. Vote now (post some reasoning please)!
  6. Articanus

    Articanus

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    I like mantyke.
  7. Sledge

    Sledge

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    Gligar for reasons stated above
  8. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Two reasons for me supporting SD Gligar:

    1) Sledge put it perfectly: Wynaut takes out Scarfers, which are the only issue pretty much barring Elekid and Bronzor for Gligar, and SD Gligar can take priority not named Ice Shard or Aqua Jet like a man, and proceed to ravage through teams

    2) ALl my teams are weak to it :(
  9. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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  10. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Yea, I'd agree with SD Gligar to seal the deal. Finally!

    So as of now our tentative team is:

    Lead
    Wynaut
    Dratini
    Gligar
    X
    X

    Let's definitely include a revenge killer and a Missy counter (we pretty well have Houndour covered with Dratini).

    Let's talk about the lead Slot next.

    I think we should consider something like Kabuto or Onix to set up Stealth Rock and not be useless after / Explode after. Bronzor could be cool as well if we EV him to survive Overheat from Houndour, since we can just Stealth Rock, Light Screen, and switch to Dratini to set up off the bat. There's also the obvious Phanpy.

    I personally think Stealth Rock is important on leads, almost always. Remember, we don't need to start worrying about type -weaknesses yet, so don't say "NO <Pokemon> because it doesn't resist Ice", we still have 2 more slots to cover that.

    Taking suggestions now, gogogo!
  11. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Im not a big fan of Onix tbh, it loses to the ever common Snover lead with a Sash or a Scarf, and is pretty useless afterwards as a Ghost will easily predict your Explosion and you have lost a Pokemon to just set up Rocks

    I think right now we need a lead that puts the pressure on the opponent. While Leaddour is good, OranChop is a cool "new" lead which can handle most leads due to the added bulk it gets from not having to run speed as required for the regular Scarf set.

    Set is something like this

    Machop @ Oran
    No Guard / Guts
    EVs: Max HP / Max Atk / remaining Defense which gets one point
    Adamant
    -Dynamic Punch / Close Combat
    -Bullet Punch
    -Ice Punch
    -Payback / Thunder Punch

    Ive seen quite a few people use this, and so far it does cause some good havoc. Use Dpunch with No Guard and CC with Guts. The rest of the set is pretty obvious, use your fighitng STAB on what doesnt resist it, and like Ice Punch on Phanpy (to avoid CC defense drop), although you will probably still lose to Phanpy. BUllet Punch provides priority to finish off sashers and Payback hit incoming ghosts for the OHKO.

    The good thing with machop is that it normally will KO the opponent, and keeping the momentum going is vital to use Wynaut and others effectively.

    Im not going to think of other slots right now, but ScarfDour seems like a good choice right now to provide a revenge killer and a soft choice to "Counter" missy with Dark Pulse. Missy probably wont be able to set up a Substitute here as im sure everyone bar wynaut can break a Sub, and Wynaut can take a risk and encore the set up move.
  12. Despotar

    Despotar

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    Same thoughts here.
  13. Kannon

    Kannon

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    I think that Sub Carvahna is one of the better revenge killers at the moment

    Carvahna @ Life Orb
    Rough Skin
    EVs: 196 Atk/36 Def/236 Spe/36 SpD
    Jolly
    -Aqua Jet
    -Crunch
    -Substitute
    -Zen Headbutt

    All you have to do is come in on something that doesn't want to eat a STAB Aqua Jet from 18 attack and set up a sub. This will let you defeat any counter you could come up against at just the cost of your sub. Croagunk is obviously OHKOed by Zen Headbutt, Mantyke is 2HKOed by Crunch, most frail or water-weak pokemon eat a lot from Aqua Jet and the extra speed point lets you hit 17 speed, beating all non-scarfed Houndour and most slower priority users like Phanpy and Kabuto outside of the rain.
  14. Sledge

    Sledge

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    While leadchop is quite strongth its not necessarily the best if we are looking for a SR lead. I support Phanpy due to its ability so consistenly set up rocks, bulk, attacking power etc.
  15. Dubulous

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    Diglett is my favorite SR lead, as it is virtually guaranteed to get rocks up and scores quick KO's on lead Omanyte and Kabuto's, but more often than not it is useless for the rest of the match. If we're going for survivability, Phanpy is the way to go.
  16. Articanus

    Articanus

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    Wynaut could always be the lead.
  17. Dubulous

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    Waste of a Wynaut, especially when we want it to remove Scarfs and set up for Dratini later game
  18. Hood Dream

    Hood Dream

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    Kabuto would be a nice lead, it can set up rocks and come in later in the match and revenge kill things with aqua jet.
  19. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I really don't want to use Wynaut as the lead, especially since it loses versus so many leads. I still like Kabuto.
  20. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    I still think we should be using an Anti-lead, and preferably one with U-turn (yes I know Machop doesnt get U-turn i just suggested it). As such, perhaps something like eh Meowth or Glameow or Aipom would be good, as they all give Priority while being able to U-Turn out. Now you'd expect me to go "GLAMEOW NO QUESTION" but here I think Aipom would be better due to higher attack, better defenses and way better coverage with the punches + brick Break to shatter DS leads.
    Im thinking:

    Aipom @ Oran / Life Orb(or sash if you are paranoid)
    Jolly
    196 Atk / 236 Spe / 76 HP
    - Fake Out
    - Return / U-Turn
    - Shadow Claw
    - Brick Break / Ice Punch

    FO is priority, Return is STAB which does a lot of damage from 16 attack stat. U-Turn is very helpful as well, allowing you to switch to Wynaut out of Bronzor to encore the set up move etc, Shadow Claw is for Missy if you can predict the switchin and Brick Break deals with stuff like Kabuto and Snover whereas Ice Punch is your best bet against stuff like Gligar. BB also breaks Screens which is pretty helpful against Bronzor.
  21. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Again, while an anti-lead would be nice, I don't think we have room to use it. We need to cover a lot in our 3 available slots, and using one of the last two slots as an SR Pokemon means we're going to have a tough time gluing the team together imo.
  22. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    An omanyte seems to be fitting then, setting up SR then beating down common leads with its powerful STAB Surf, while resisting Fake Out and Fire moves that leads tend to carry such as Houndour and Dratini. EPower also helps beat Kabuto.

    Omanyte would definately be the choice here, as it would also lure in scarf fighters, which can Wynaut can switch into and dispose of. The only lead it really loses to is Snover, who can be taken down with priority or a fire attack from a fast fire mon like Scarfdour.
  23. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    My thing with Omanyte is that Kabuto can be EV'd to essentially do the same thing, but still beat Snover.

    When I mentioned this to MGX, he simply said "do it", so together, we did.

    On IRC I talked with MGX about a Kabuto lead that's slightly altered to always beat non-scarf Snover, Phanpy, and the like. The only issue our lead has is that it's open to Croagunk, but then we realized "Oh yea we have Wynaut".

    Here is what me and MGX came up with:

    Kabuto (M) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 36 Atk/236 Spd/236 SAtk
    Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Aqua Jet
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Slide
    - Surf
    ---

    This will OHKO (116 HP / 36 SpD) Phanpy, OHKO Snover, and best of all, set up Stealth Rock almost 100% of the time! Leaving yourself open to Croagunk isn't too bad when you carry two of the best Croagunk counters (Gligar and Wynaut) in the game.
  24. Articanus

    Articanus

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    Couldn't Omanyte do something very similar? It can set up Spikes, SR, break sashes with Rock Blast, and then have Surf for STAB on the opposite side of the attacking spectrum, netting Phanpy for a OHKO(with no EV investment!), as well as outspeeding 36 EV Speed versions.

    Omanyte (M) @ Oran Berry
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 236 HP/116 Atk/156 Spd
    Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Surf
    - Rock Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    I admit it loses to that exact Kabuto, but then again we can plan around that. Houndour starters now are complete set-up bait, allowing us to get 3 layers of spikes and SR if it trys to reversal all day, while Rock Blast is a OHKO. Surf OHKOs Phanpy, among others, and the EVs allow it to outspeed it. Rest was poured into HP, helping to tank hits.
  25. Dubulous

    Dubulous I look just like Buddy Holly.
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    As a note, Rock Blast will not break sashes on SB2, which I hear is coming out quite soon.
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