Company Mafia - Day 5 End - Won by the Workers

Votecount 1.5

Walrein (6): Paperblade Jalmont Orcinus Duo Paperblade Aura Guardian UllarWarlord Itchni Darkpenguin67
Darkpenguin67 (2): Walrein Jalmont
pokemonrocks777 (1): Rediamond
shinyskarmory (0): Orcinus Duo Rediamond
Itchni (0): Aura Guardian Orcinus Duo manav95
Rediamond (0): Cereza Paperblade
Aura Guardian (0): Itchni Orcinus Duo
Orcinus Duo (0): Jalmont
Jalmont (0): Walrein pokemonrocks777

Not Voting (7): capefeather Vintage Books coolking49 shinyskarmory Cereza pokemonrocks777 Da Letter El

With 16 players it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is in 27 hours and 25 minutes.
 
I agree with Rediamond that we shouldn't lynch the active users. Also I tend to be more cowardly as much as I think we should play boldly (as contradictory as that is). Walrein/rediamond scumbuddies is possible, but rediamond's defense is logical.
 
i would like to remind everyone that dp67 still has not posted and i really want to see him post something substantial

i also want to point out that the problem with this survey orcinus is that the questions are very easy for a scum to simply c/p from other people. I think that it is useless at this point to conintue answering the questions.

manav being an idiot i think i expected that one, and i dont think there is enough with shinyskarmory's post that really warrants being read into, but with that being said that brings up an interesting post afterwards. Rediamond immediately posts after ss and votes him, which you know is pretty normal for d1. The odd thing i found was that he didnt address any of Paperblade's points and ignored any of the earlier discussion surrounding walrein. It seemed to me he was trying to almost appear helpful while avoiding the topic at hand (walrein rediamond scumbuddies anyone?) just some food for thought
I'll start with the first point. First, darkpenguin hasn't posted anything substantial, you're right, but maybe that's because he hasn't checked the thread. I didn't post until page 4 because I was sleeping during pages 1 through 3. If Darkpenguin is in an unfavorable time zone/was caught away from his computer, then it's still within the realm of possibility that he is just unable to post for whatever reason. If we get to, say, 12 hours before deadline and he hasn't posted, then we should switch to him or ask for him to be subbed.

Until then, though, our best option is to vote Walrein. He has been somewhat quiet considering he's a veteran mafia player, and he would be a perfect choice (as an experienced player) to be in the mafia. The more votes are on him. the more pressure there is for him to produce some kind of explanation for why he hasn't posted anything substantial.

And the reason I haven't posted anything big up until this point was because I was asleep for the first 3 pages, and then I only had time for one post (and the double post with my vote) before I left for the day. In fact, pretty much every day during the week, I'll be unable to post from 9 to 3. Now that I'm back, I should be able to pay better attention and be more active.
 
My apologies for that post. I'd been asleep up until that point, and was in a short car ride reading through the events that occured while I was asleep. I found that to be annoying on his part and a joking way to correct him before I got ninja'd by Ullar. I hadn't had time to go over my thoughts or the time to post them.

Now, I've had both.

I view the Walrein bandwagon as pointless, even if this does further Jalmont's theory. Namely because this early in an NOC game, it would be incredibly easy for him to slip out of any pressure we put on him. The fact that he hasn't done so is odd, but we have much better targtes that are likelier to crack, as I said earlier. If we have an inspector/vig, looking into/killing him tonight might be the better course of action, as it would be nearly impossible to pin a somewhat experienced user this early in the game.

Which is why I support going after inactive newer users who haven't contributed anything and have slipped beneath the radar to a degree. While he isn't beneath the radar, I believe that one user is the likeliest to crack, the least helpful possible vanillager, and the least likely to have a village power role.

##Unvote
##Vote pokemonrocks777

Could you please elaborate on your opinions on users Walrein, Orcinus Duo, and Paperblade?

These are some of the users that are the most controversial, or that have quite a few posts to draw an opinion from. This should be simple enough. While this question is directed at the target of my vote, any one may answer these to get a discussion going.
why would you vote me i Have nothing you need I never Kill or anything this game so for that i'm

##Vote Rediamond
 

Jalmont

Mafia Champion
I'll start with the first point. First, darkpenguin hasn't posted anything substantial, you're right, but maybe that's because he hasn't checked the thread. I didn't post until page 4 because I was sleeping during pages 1 through 3. If Darkpenguin is in an unfavorable time zone/was caught away from his computer, then it's still within the realm of possibility that he is just unable to post for whatever reason. If we get to, say, 12 hours before deadline and he hasn't posted, then we should switch to him or ask for him to be subbed.

Until then, though, our best option is to vote Walrein. He has been somewhat quiet considering he's a veteran mafia player, and he would be a perfect choice (as an experienced player) to be in the mafia. The more votes are on him. the more pressure there is for him to produce some kind of explanation for why he hasn't posted anything substantial.

And the reason I haven't posted anything big up until this point was because I was asleep for the first 3 pages, and then I only had time for one post (and the double post with my vote) before I left for the day. In fact, pretty much every day during the week, I'll be unable to post from 9 to 3. Now that I'm back, I should be able to pay better attention and be more active.
dp67 has been active as i have seen him regularly lurk the thread so your first point is moot. i understand why everyone wants to get walrein i just see no need to hammer walrein further when they are still other options as to possible scum to pursue.
 

Walrein

seize the memes of production
is a Community Contributor
Mafia Champion
Why am I being bandwagoned again? Apparently it is my "lack of aggressiveness". What I am seeing is that a lack of posts is the same thing as a lack of aggressiveness. I'd like to point out that it's very hard to post while sleeping and attending driver's ed. You can also ask the denizens of #tf2 and confirm that I played quite a bit of League of Legends last night.

I'm still trying to find out how it started. Right now what I'm seeing is Jalmont and Orcinus immediately jump on me after I say I'll post, then a bunch of other people jump on me afterwards without really introducing any new opinions (with the exception of Paperblade, but I'll get to you in a bit). So basically a couple of users vote to call me out, then one user forms an opinion and the rest mindlessly sheep. This is how villages lose games, people.

manav is a fucking retard

I appreciate that Orcinus and Paperblade are sticking to their word and playing aggressively, but it seems to me that they are stifling discussion by pushing a massive bandwagon this early. When you push someone to L-1, what it really does is stifles most discussion until you can hear that person's defense.

I'd also like to note that it doesn't really matter whether Pokemonrocks777 is village or mafia, we're not getting anything out of him either way. Rediamond, stop wasting your time.

Speaking of Rediamond, could you please elaborate on your views of me? I understand that you called this bandwagon a "waste of time" etc etc, but you never actually posted your opinion on my play so far.

Darkpenguin67 is striking me as very odd with his refusal to post anything whatsoever. Call me a hypocrite, but even my meager two posts have had more content that his.

I'd like to make a list of user's who hopped on the Walrein bandwagon without stating an opinion about it and never jumped off:
-UllarWarlord (clean but you really can't afford to bandwagon; as our only confirmed villager you need to toss your opinions out, not ride on the coattails of others')
-Ichni (unless you count "i want the day to end faster")
-Darkpenguin67 (who I have already ranted about)
That's half the bandwagon, people. I don't mind defending myself, but at least give me some opinions to defend myself AGAINST.

In particular, users Darkpenguin67, Ichni, and Cereza need to post something substantial. Cereza in particular has done literally nothing of note and is flying completely under the radar.

VintageBooks please be active soon :(

If you have any particular accusations that I've missed, post them now and I'll answer them.

EDIT: probably my longest post on smogon, including that one post that shall never be spoken of again

EDIT2: I also don't like how Orcinus Duo tried to get me to claim on a pressure bandwagon that has barely any substance. Food for thought.
 
I am completely wasting my time.

##Unvote

Alright, as far as my opinions on Walrein...

It's fairly hard to get a read on day one, and he hadn't really given a solid position on any user. Before the last post, I viewed him with some suspicion, but doubted he was actually scum as he was playing quite poorly if he was, by allowing a bandwagon to get up to higher levels.

His last post contained nothing majorly illogical, and basically stopped the bandwagon in its tracks. Like I said he would. Beyond that, there still isn't a large read beyond opposing bandwagons and counter targeting most of the people who targeted him. He has a rather large list of names who many users have not been aiming at, bar a few fringe movements.

Basically, the possible scum factions (assuming their obvious, which they wouldn't be), would be Paperblade/Orcinus/Jalmont or Rediamond/Walrein/Itchini.

The Paperblade faction, if it is really scum, could be a push to get one of the most experienced villagers lynched and later claim it was "unfortunate." If Walrein is actually clean, it might be worth looking into seeing if one of these users is scum. The entire bandwagon on an experienced user when most users were being inactive seems a bit odd, but just justifiable enough for it to mean almost nothing with no further evidence.

Now, assuming that Walrein is scum, Itchini and myself would be suspect for defending Walrein by attacking Jalmont. In fact, you could make a solid case that any of our behaviour was scummy (my defense of Walrein/easiveness, Itchini attacking Jalmont and trying to appear clean via bandwagon, and the Walrein case has been done to death). Basically, I don't find either side particularly scummy and I wouldn't actually want to lynch any of these users on the chance they could be scum.

However, if a member of one side flips, it could cast some light onto the entire game. For now I purpose lynching a member of the bandwagon with less thought out posts, as a lower risk way of scouting out alignments.
 
Ive made my intentions clear. Day 1 is a crapshoot and we have to kill someone. I actually wanted to consider just not reaching majority because i really don't wanna lynch any important villager. I honestly don't know why people are trying to read into day1 lynches (which IMO are incredibly stupid). We have absolutely no hard ans fast evidence right now.

I don't personally suspect of Walrein of being mafia any more than anyone else in this game (other than myself, of course)

This is incredibly stupid and I have made my reasoning clearer than anyone else Walrien. I'd actually suspect that Blue Tornado wouldn't give you mafia because of how well known you are.
 
While trying to implicate any user as scum is next to pointless, building up connections by establishing users opinions is absolutely not. That's why users need to be vocal, and if one comes off as particularly scummy, than they may indeed be worth investigating.

That said, Cereza is looking increasingly scummy as time goes on, and if both sides hadn't made the statement, I would be seriously investigating it. Cereza is good enough that a mafia role is viable, but has made no real post of any substance. I would like to see this reversed, but in the meantime

##Vote Cereza
 
Votecount 1.6 discourages insignificant stealth edits

Walrein (6): Paperblade Jalmont Orcinus Duo Paperblade Aura Guardian UllarWarlord Itchni Darkpenguin67 shinyskarmory
Darkpenguin67 (2): Walrein Jalmont
Cereza (2): Rediamond pokemonrocks777
Rediamond (1): Cereza Paperblade pokemonrocks777 Paperblade
pokemonrocks777 (0): Rediamond
shinyskarmory (0): Orcinus Duo Rediamond
Itchni (0): Aura Guardian Orcinus Duo manav95
Aura Guardian (0): Itchni Orcinus Duo
Orcinus Duo (0): Jalmont
Jalmont (0): Walrein pokemonrocks777

Not Voting (5): capefeather Vintage Books coolking49 Cereza Da Letter El

With 16 players it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is in 22 hours and 30 minutes.
 
Ok here are a some notes so far on some people:

Pokemonrocks777: While he hasn't said anything useful, we might want to be careful before we assume hes town because of past mafia performances, but i understand logic.

Itchni: He seems to think that we should just lynch someone just to get Day 1 over with and I haven't seen much from him apart from that. It would be great if you could elaborate a bit more on your views.

Also ##Unvote since Walrein has explained himself.
 
guys help i think procks just gave me an aneurysm

Wt heck is that

Ok here are a some notes so far on some people:

Pokemonrocks777: While he hasn't said anything useful, we might want to be careful before we assume hes town because of past mafia performances, but i understand logic.

Itchni: He seems to think that we should just lynch someone just to get Day 1 over with and I haven't seen much from him apart from that. It would be great if you could elaborate a bit more on your views.

Also ##Unvote since Walrein has explained himself.

well I thought i gave you hints and besides I think that someone in the game is Mafia cause of a so called "Band Wagon" Vote
 
so are you saying we shouldnt bother trying to find scum now
when should we start looking for them
day 8?
thats is a logical fallacy. I said we need evidence to do any real scum hunting not "HERP DERP LETS NOT LOOK AND GUESS ALL THE TIME"

If you wanna debate with me about my strategy then you should refute my central point. At this point i still believe any random should be lynched. And I believe you will do
##unvote
##vote Jalmont
 
##Unvote


I'm going to do that because the user took my name off his vote


##Vote Cereza

Oh my GOD

##Unvote
##Vote Pokemonrocks


I actually encourage this vote. I'd from a risk/reward perspective, this lynch makes the most sense. If we catch scum, then we catch scum. If we don't catch scum, we at least get rid of Pokemonrocks777 and improve the average perceived intelligence of this thread by a few points.
 
Firstly, the Walrein wagon is getting exceedingly stupid and I think we should stop it now.

Secondly, I just read the last two pages. Rediamond's "scum factions" hypotheses are quite possibly the third most stupid thing I've seen in this thread, after manav's suicide and Pokemonrocks in general. That makes absolutely no sense at all. I don't even see how you arrived at the conclusion. I am scum because...of something Walrein said? If Walrein flips clean, then I'm scum?

Does this not make sense to anyone else here?

The whole point of NOC mafia is that you never know what someone's going to flip. I drove the Walrein bandwagon for the most part. If Walrein flips clean, I get the flak? Oh ok, so if we mislynch let's make it worse by driving another totally unsubstantiated lynch, because everyone here is expected to make 100% accurate reads.


Jalmont's list is stupid, but I think he knows that. It's just a method of driving day1 discussion, making shitlists. If he actually tries to follow it though, his towniness is going to be under intense scrutiny.

The argument against Pokemonrocks being scum is almost worse than said user. You can't reason like that. PR has always been town, thus he will always be town. That doesn't work. It is clear that PR isn't going to contribute anything to town. If anything, this is a policy lynch in lieu of possibly mislynching an active player who we may be able to get better reads on in the future. I don't see why everyone isn't voting in tbh.
 
Oh my GOD

##Unvote
##Vote Pokemonrocks


I actually encourage this vote. I'd from a risk/reward perspective, this lynch makes the most sense. If we catch scum, then we catch scum. If we don't catch scum, we at least get rid of Pokemonrocks777 and improve the average perceived intelligence of this thread by a few points.
This.

##Unvote
##Vote Pokemonrocks

Worst case scenario, Blue_Tornado in his infinite hosting wisdom gives Pokemonrocks a power role and we lose it. Best case scenario, Pokemonrocks is mafia and we kill one off while raising the IQ of this thread by a few dozen points. Most likely scenario, Pokemonrocks is vanillager and we lose nothing, since the odds of us lynching successfully on day one are next to zero anyways when we have nothing to go on.
 
Well, I was mistaken in how I'd avoid a majority, but still, the rule concerning majorities is:
2. Each day period ends after exactly 72 hours [2.1 says Day 1 is 48 hours etc.] have passed or when majority is reached. If there is no majority after 72 [48] hours, no player will be lynched.
So to my knowledge, if there's no majority, there's no lynch. Am I reading this correctly?

At any rate, I'm going to agree with the wager here. We probably don't lose much from lynching incompetence, but we can gain a lot from lynching malice.

##Vote Pokemonrocks

Also are we still doing that questionnaire thing? The only other NOC I've played was kind of a troll in that everyone was mafia, so the NOC experience I have to draw from is fairly wonky. I'm not sure how seriously people are really taking that questionnaire.
 
While we lynch PR today, I am open to an inspect on rediamond today, mostly because I think his buddying Walrein is even more scummy than Walrein himself. There was zero reason to defend Walrein. Zero.
If rediamond flips scum at night, then we can assume basically that Walrein is scum. Not many other night inspects can claim a 2-scum reward.
I'm not taking that questionnaire seriously and I made it lol

Right now, I think we should also be taking itchni "NOC is luck" into serious scum consideration. Claiming to have that mentality is a great way to fly under the radar, because defense is then literally just "Hey this game is luck, lynch me and take your chances!" thus, he has a great excuse to not post anything of value, because he doesn't believe in scum reads.