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[COMPLETED] Aegislash

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by alexwolf, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
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    Im really struggling to see the merit of the mixed set over cb. Without kings shield being able to switch moves does almost nothing as you are slow and frail enough to be easily ohkod, only helping you prevent set up, at the cost of making you so much easier to play around. The increased power with shadow sneak is helpful, the ability to just click head smash and have the opponent have almost no possible switch ins is helpful. At the very least cb is as good as mixed in my opinion.
  2. UltiMario

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    I was gunna suggest removing Pursuit set too since it honestly wasn't great and there was no way to slash it onto anything else, but I figured I'd leave that stuff up to QC. Good to see that's how its working out that way. Posting for agreement as well on that.
  3. alexwolf

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    Being able to click Shadow Ball and see everything crumble is even better believe me. And can you really not see the merit of not being choice locked, or not relying on a 80% accurate move with huge recoil on a Pokemon with low base HP? Well, for one, you are now able to 2HKO many faster Pokemon with the combo of attack + Shadow Sneak that you couldn't before, which is huge. I have already mentioned that many offensive Ground-types and Fire-types that are considered as good switch-ins to Aegislash are 2HKOed by Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak. You are also much harder to play around for slower Pokemon such as Hippowdon and Ferrothorn, which could switch into an Iron head but not a Shadow Ball for example, so after they switch in you can still smack them hard with the appropriate move. Finally, without being choice locked you are not setup bait for anything if you decide to stay in and attack. I can't think of a single offensive Pokemon that can set up on a mixed Aegislash while i can think of many offensive Pokemon that can set up on a CB locked Aegislash.

    Anyway, i am fine with the things that the QC agreed so i making those changes. Just to be clear the sets will be those right:

    King's Shield + 3 attacks
    Double Dance
    Mixed
    SD
    Autotomize

    If yes, READY FOR QC CHECKS!
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  4. PK Gaming

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    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  5. ginganinja

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  6. nyczxjay

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    Don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but on the Mixed set, is it better to run a 0 Speed IV or to run a 31 Speed IV? I'm guessing if you're trying to outspeed Hippowdon (130), it's better to run 31 IV (140)?
  7. Vryheid

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    Any thought on including Air Balloon as an option for an item? Leftovers support is nice, but being effectively immune to most physical counters or forcing them to eat a Kings Shield attack drop before they can hit it can give it a lot more setup opportunities. Air balloon also allows it to set up for free on the standard Mega Kangaskahn sets.
  8. alexwolf

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    It is an ok item if your team has huge troubles with Ground-types but the other items outclass it 95% of the time as Aegislash is always useful as a pivot and not being to switch into resisted attacks in fear of your Balloon getting poped sucks. In a normal analysis it would get a mention in the Other Options section but previews don't have it so i won't include it for now.
  9. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    Weakness Policy is an interesting choice on the Automize set. Shield Forme can survive a lot of super effective attacks while it uses Automize and +2 Attack and +2 Sp Attack is a hell of a lot more potent than just Life Orb.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Aegislash is the best abuser of Weakness Policy, as it can literally be mentioned on every set. On the SD set, I'd recommend the spread 248 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 4 Spe with Adamant nature. This spread allows you to beat other Aegislash as well as give Download-users an attack boost (you could mention that if your team is weak to SG Genesect, you could run 4 Def over 4 SpD).
  11. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    Maybe the 248 Hp / 4 SpD would be a thing if there were even any Download users available at the moment, but there aren't so there's no reason to not max HP. Speed creep is actually bad for you because then you're attacking first, so you're changing into Sword Stance first, meaning you're hitting their base 150 Defense while they're hitting your 50. I'd only consider Weakness Policy on the Autonomize or Mixed set, because the other sets have very distinct goals and how to achieve them. What's the point of calling it a Choice Band set if you're going to slash a different item over it?
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  12. BurningMan

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    The 4 Spe EVs would be speed creep which we try to avoid in analysis for numerous reasons, you are right about the SDef EVs however since Genesect is unreleased as of now there is no real reason to mention Download as it is the only real abuser.
  13. Time Mage

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    I think the mixed set deserves mentioning Choice Specs as an option, switching Iron Head for Flash Cannon. Can afford to invest the Attack EVs on HP, granting it much more durability, thus more switch ins, and gets more immediate power on the option used 90% of the time, Shadow Ball. A CS shadow Ball is around 4% less potent than Spooky Plate Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak, and lets Aegislash do more damage to those pokémon that he cannot afford to stay in for the Shadow Sneak. Flash Cannon hits on the strongest defense of most of its targets, but this time is backed up by the 50% boost of Specs. Shadow Ball/Flash Cannon/Sacred Sword/HP Ice makes the specs set really appealing, in my opinion.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  14. Fusxfaranto

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    Choice Band is definitely worth a set. It hits extremely hard, can switch in on a ton, and can revenge a lot of weakened stuff with a very strong Shadow Sneak. Definitely far more immediately threatening than other sets.
  15. Unowninator

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    Since King's Shield doesn't block status moves, would it be a good idea to use Protect instead?
  16. Halcyon.

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    No, King's Shield is mainly used to change back into Shield Forme, which Protect can't do. Plus the Attack drop side effect is really nice.
  17. Unowninator

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    I thought it changes as soon as it uses a status move (like Protect)?
  18. Halcyon.

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    Nope, only King's Shield can change its forme from Blade to Shield.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Written up and ready for its last QC check.
  20. BKC

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    ok!

    qc approved 3/3
  21. Jukain

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    I just wanna piggyback on this. I know users: PK Gaming, ginganinja, and alexwolf disagree, but wish to dispute their remarks. CB is what Aegislash is made for. I fail to see the lack of merits. You switch in as a god-like defensive beast, underspeed and therefore get to utilize your defenses, and attack as a total monster. you hit like a truck and can revenge kill with what becomes a damn strong shadow sneak. i honestly don't see what it does wrong.
  22. bugmaniacbob

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    checki checki checki (open)

    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>It is an amazing tank thanks to its ability.</li>
    <li>It has a great typing and STABs, STAB moves which get almost perfect neutral coverage together.</li>
    <li>It is a good sweeper,(comma) and has access to with moves such as Swords Dance, Autotomize, and Shadow Sneak.</li>
    <li>It is a good spinblocker.</li>
    <li>It is a great check to an array of physical attackers thanks to great bulk and King's Shield.</li>
    <li>It is a Mixed sets are great wallbreakers wallbreaker with a mixed set.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>It is slow.</li>
    <li>It is reliant on King's Shield to go into Shield forme, which can be taken advantage of.</li>
    <li>It is weak to common offensive types, namely Fire and Ground. Furthermore, Earthquake, the most common physical Ground-type attack, doesn't activate King's Shield Shield's Attack-dropping effect.</li>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: King's Shield<br />
    move 1: King's Shield<br />
    move 2: Shadow Ball / Iron Head<br />
    move 3: Shadow Sneak<br />
    move 4: Iron Head / Sacred Sword<br />
    ability: Stance Change<br />
    item: Leftovers<br />
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA<br />
    nature: Quiet / Adamant</p>

    <p>With this set King's Shield, it is almost like you are playing with a 720 BST Pokemon. Aegislash has great bulk when tanking hits and great power when it attacks, while being able to avoid taking hits in its frailer forme either with judicious use of King's Shield or by switching. Aegislash also has great coverage, with as only a few Pokemon resisting just its STABs resist its STAB moves alone, and nothing resisting resists the combination of Ghost-(hyphen) and Fighting-type moves. Shadow Ball 2HKOs 2HKOes physical walls such as Skarmory and Hippowdon, and is a very spammable move can be used repeatedly thanks to its power and the lack of Ghost-resists and immunities Pokemon resistant or immune to Ghost-type moves in OU. Shadow Sneak is a useful move to pick off faster Pokemon, while Iron Head 2HKOes at worst most of the special walls that can tank Shadow Ball in OU, such as Sylveon, Florges, Togekiss, and Tyranitar. Sacred Sword is Aegislash's strongest option against Greninja, Tyranitar, Excadrill, and Bisharp,(comma) and while those Pokemon can be 2HKOed by other moves as well, Sacred Sword is a good better option on teams that struggle with those Pokemon.</p>

    <p>The EV spread maximizes bulk and power. If one wants to use both Iron Head and Sacred Sword, move the 252 EVs from SpA to Atk and use an Adamant nature.(full stop) Doing so ,(remove) which also makes Shadow Sneak significantly stronger. If one wants Aegislash to reliably spinblock against offensive Starmie, move the 252 EVs from SpA to SpD and use a Careful nature. Chesnaught is a very good partner that can deal with Ground-types such as Excadrill and Diggersby, and also sets up Spikes,(comma) which Aegislash can protect. Rotom-W is a good switch-in to Ground- and Fire-types that threaten Aegislash and can also deal with Mandibuzz, Aegislash's best counter.</p>

    <p>name: Double Dance<br />
    move 1: Swords Dance<br />
    move 2: Autotomize<br />
    move 3: Shadow Claw<br />
    move 4: Sacred Sword / Iron Head<br />
    ability: Stance Change<br />
    item: Leftovers<br />
    evs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe<br />
    nature: Adamant</p>

    <p>This set play similar plays similarly to Double Dance Landorus-T in the 5th generation. It is both a bulky pivot and a late-game sweeper, while and it has the option to boost the appropriate stat can choose its boosting move depending on the kind of team Aegislash it is facing (Autotomize against offensive teams, Swords Dance against defensive teams). Or it can even set up both boosts if given the chance, which is not that hard to do find with its impressive bulk. On In the last slot, Sacred Sword is preferred for its superior super effective coverage, but Iron Head is useful against Fairy-types and is Aegislash's strongest move against most Ground-types, such as Hippowdon, Garchomp, and Zygarde.</p>


    <p>The EV spread generates enough Speed to outrun positive-natured base 130s, such as Mega Gengar and Jolteon, and the rest of the EVs are put into HP to enhance Aegislash's pivoting role as a pivot. Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, and Greninja are all great partners, as they can set up hazards to aid Aegislash's sweep (Greninja and Ferrothorn) and or can beat Ground-types and Fire-types (Rotom-W and Greninja).</p>

    <p>name: Mixed Attacker<br />
    move 1: Shadow Ball<br />
    move 2: Shadow Sneak<br />
    move 3: Iron Head<br />
    move 4: Sacred Sword<br />
    ability: Stance Change<br />
    item: Spooky Plate / Life Orb<br />
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA<br />
    nature: Quiet</p>

    <p>This set is one of the best wallbreaker wallbreakers in OU. Aegislash's Ghost-type STAB, amazing attacking stats, and solid coverage,(comma) make sure that there is almost no completely safe switch-in. Shadow Ball 2HKOes the majority of the OU metagame, and when coupled with Shadow Sneak can 2HKO a ton of faster Pokemon, such as Excadrill, Garchomp (after one layer of Spikes), Talonflame, and Volcarona. Iron Head takes care of special walls such as Sylveon, Togekiss, and Goodra, while Sacred Sword covers Tyranitar, Greninja, and Hydreigon.</p>

    <p>Spooky Plate is the preferred item because it doesn't cut on Aegislash undermine Aegislash's great bulk,(comma) but Life Orb is a nice alternative for the extra power,(comma) which allows it to get past walls such as specially defensive Hippowdon and Mandibuzz easier more easily. Choice Specs is an another option as with it Shadow Ball has tremendous power, but the locking effect inability to switch moves makes Aegislash much easier to play around. This set makes for a great receiver of Shell Smash from Pokemon such as Gorebyss or Smeargle, as it can OHKO almost everything after a boost, resists most priority attacks, and has its own priority as well. Pokemon that can take advantage of the holes that Aegislash creates work well with it, with some of them being such as Swords Dance Talonflame and Swords Dance Pinsir. Also, one layer of Spikes helps Aegislash 2HKO specially defensive Hippowdon with Shadow Ball, so Chesnaught or Skarmory are good partners.</p>

    <p>name: Swords Dance<br />
    move 1: Swords Dance<br />
    move 2: King's Shield / Shadow Claw<br />
    move 3: Shadow Sneak<br />
    move 4: Sacred Sword / Iron Head<br />
    ability: Stance Change<br />
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb<br />
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe<br />
    nature: Adamant</p>

    <p>This set can be played in two ways. The first is as a slow booster and bulky pivot, with King's Shield and Leftovers. The goal here is to accumulate as many Swords Dance boosts as possible, while fending of any physical attacker with contact moves with a well-timed King's Shield. With Aegislash's fantastic bulk and with a Swords Dance boost, it is easy to take one hit from many offensive Pokemon and 2HKO them with the combo of Sacred Sword / Iron Head and Shadow Sneak, while protecting from the next foe with King's Shield. King's Shield also allows Aegislash to revert to Shield forme, so it does not have to take a counterattack in its frailer Blade forme. The second way is to play this set is as an all-out sweeper late-game sweeper, or a mid-game wallbreaker,(remove) so that other sweepers can clean up, in which case Aegislash should use Shadow Claw and Life Orb. After a Swords Dance, Shadow Sneak can OHKO many offensive Pokemon despite its low Base Power, such as Blaziken, Excadrill, and Lucario, with the help of Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes in the case of the last latter two. Sacred Sword offers perfect neutral coverage with Aegislash's Ghost-type attacks and hits important Pokemon such as Excadrill, Tyranitar, Greninja, and Ferrothorn hard. On the other hand, Iron Head still covers Tyranitar and also Togekiss and Azumarill, while being Aegislash's strongest move, hitting harder than everything else Pokemon neutral to all of its moves, such as Hippowdon, Gliscor, Heracross, and Garchomp, harder than everything else.</p>

    <p>This set struggles in general with physical walls such as Hippowdon and Skarmory, so strong special attackers and a Rapid Spin or Defog user are good teammates. Rotom-W and Mega Blastoise fit those criteria perfectly. It should be mentioned,(comma) however, that if Aegislash is using Shadow Claw, Hippowdon and Skarmory are not perfect counters anymore, just good checks, as a +2 Shadow Claw can do a lot of damage back. In addition to Shadow Claw, if Aegislash also carries Iron Head and is facing Hippowdon, Aegislash can opt to boost twice, one time once as Hippowdon switches in and another one again after while tanking an Earthquake at in Shield Forme, and then OHKO back Hippowdon at +4.(full stop) ,(remove) It should be noted that in which case Hippowdon should can use Whirlwind instead of Earthquake after switching in,(comma) but in doing so (in which case it risks losing more than half of its life from a +2 Iron Head while not doing any damage back)(remove). It's a a 50-50 situation. Finally, this set appreciates Spikes and Stealth Rock support more than any other to get crucial OHKOes OHKO with Shadow Sneak after boosting, so suicide lead Forretress, suicide lead Smearlge Smeargle, and Ferrothorn make great teammates on heavy offense teams. Chesnaught is also an option for Spikes on more balanced teams and can handle the Ground-types that Aegislash fears.</p>

    <p>name: Autotomize<br />
    move 1: Autotomize<br />
    move 2: Shadow Ball<br />
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice<br />
    move 4: Iron Head / Sacred Sword<br />
    ability: Stance Change<br />
    item: Life Orb<br />
    evs: 88 Atk / 252 SpA / 168 Spe<br />
    nature: Rash</p>

    <p>Simple This is a simple late-game sweeping set. With this EV spread,(comma) Aegislash outruns every common unboosted Pokemon in OU after setting up (namely everything up to base 130s), hits hard, and has great coverage. Aegislash uses its fantastic bulk in Shield Forme to set up, and if Choice Scarf users and Pokemon that can take a hit and OHKO back have been removed, it sweeps. Shadow Ball is your main source of power. Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Garchomp, Zygarde, Diggersby, Gliscor, and Dragonite, while Iron Head deals with Sylveon, Florges, Tyranitar, and Togekiss. On the other hand, Sacred Sword is useful to OHKO Tyranitar, Excadrill, and Greninja.</p>

    <p>As with most sweepers, entry hazard support is appreciated. Sticky Web ensures that Aegislash can outspeed even Choice Scarf users after setting up,(comma) which makes Smeargle and Galvantula a good partner partners. Smeargle can also set up Stealth Rock and Spikes too, and is a good suicide lead on offensive teams. However, be careful of Defog users, the most popular one being Scizor, which Magnezone can trap and KO (only use it with Smeargle rather than Galvantula, as having two Electric-types is not a very good option idea). Roserade is a good offensive Spikes user and can deal with Rotom-W, a Pokemon that can take one hit from Aegislash and OHKO it back.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mandibuzz is the best and only true counter to Aegislash there is. She avoids the 2HKO from any set, is faster, 2HKOes with Foul Play or OHKOes if Aegislash used Swords Dance, doesn't care about King's Shield, and has reliable recovery. Specially defensive Hippowdon is the next best check to Aegislash, walling even mixed sets, but needs to go into dangerous 50-50 prediction games against Swords Dance sets that carry Iron Head or Shadow Claw. Rotom-W checks physically offensive variants as it can burn Aegislash with Will-O-Wisp, but gets 2HKOed by invested Shadow Ball. Physical walls such as Hippowdon and Skarmory deal with the purely physical sets fine, but fail to wall any set with Shadow Ball. Strong Ground-types are great checks, especially bulky ones such as Garchomp and Zygarde, as they can take a couple of hits from Aegislash and threaten it with Earthquake. Diggersby deserves a special mention, as it is immune to Ghost-type attacks and OHKOes back with Earthquake, although it is frail and needs to be careful of Iron Head and Sacred Sword. Hydreigon, Bisharp, and Greninja can also switch into Aegislash's Ghost-type attacks and deal great deals amounts of damage with STAB Dark-type attacks, making for good checks as long as they avoid Sacred Sword on the switch; furthermore, Bisharp doesn't care about King's Shield because of Defiant and Sucker Punch. Lastly, Fire-types, especially specially based ones, can usually outspeed Aegislash and OHKO or dent it with their STABs; physical Fire-types can potentially be potentially screwed by King's Shield though.</p>


    GP 1/1
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Thx bugmaniacbob, fantastic check (you helped me make much clearer the block of text where i was explaining the situation of Hippo vs Aegislash). This is ready!
  24. TheMantyke

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    For what it's worth, Mandibuzz is not a 100% counter. A set with a +Attack nature and 252 EVs invested has a chance of scoring a OHKO on 252 HP / 252 Def Mandibuzz with Head Smash while under Stealth Rocks. With LO, it's guaranteed. I think that the first sentence of checks and counter ought to list Mandibuzz as a counter to any set lacking Head Smash.
  25. alexwolf

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    Adding, thanks.

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