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[COMPLETED] Chesnaught

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by Hypercut, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    [​IMG]

    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Great physical bulk allows it to counter an array of physical attackers, with Excadrill being the most important.</li>
    <li>Its Attack stat is decent.</li>
    <li>Its ability makes it immune to bomb-based and ball-based attacks, such as Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere.</li>
    <li>It has access to Spikes.</li>
    <li>It has a reliable recovery move.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]
    <ul>
    <li>Its Special Defense is low.</li>
    <li>Its Speed stat is low.</li>
    <li>It has a serious weaknesses to Flying- and Fire-type attacks.</li>
    <li>It has a poor movepool.</li>
    <li>Its recovery gets weakened against sand teams.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Chesnaught @ Leftovers<br />
    Ability: Bulletproof<br />
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe <br />
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)<br />
    - Spikes<br />
    - Synthesis<br />
    - Hammer Arm<br />
    - Leech Seed / Stone Edge / Roar</p>

    <p>Because Defog now clean all the fields from entry hazards, Spikes aren't the best bet anymore but they still are somewhat useful. Chesnaught is different from Ferrothorn and Roserade. It has Fighting STAB, Ground resistance, Dark resistance, and Fighting neutrality, so it can switch in for example against Choice Band Tyranitar and Excadrill, Shell Smash Barbaracle, Pangoro, and Tyrantrum, all Pokemon that Ferrothorn and Roserade can't deal with. Hammer Arm provides solid power, Synthesis supplies recovery, and Roar helps Chesnaught against stat uppers, forcing them to switch out. Also, Chesnaught is a perfect counter to King's Shield +3 attacks and mixed Aegislash, that are its most dangerous sets.</p>

    <p>The best way to use this set is to eliminate Defog users such as Crobat, which can OHKO Chesnaught with its STAB Brave Bird. Rotom-W can switch in against Crobat and Talonflame, forcing them to switch out, so it can use Volt Switch in order to gain momentum as it's slower. Also, Zapdos can screw over Crobat with its Electric STAB. Magic Bounce user such as Xatu and Mega Absol are scared by Zapdos / Rotom, Mega Lucario, and Mega Gengar. Also, Chesnaught can check and scare a couple of physical attackers, such as Excadrill, Tyranitar, Tyrantrum, Pangoro, and Barbaracle, and set up Spikes. Chesnaught also serve as an answer to late-game sweepers such as Lucario thanks to Synthesis, which increases its longevity in combination with its great Defense. Another good partner for Chesnaught is Magnezone, which counters Crobat and traps and KOes Scizor, Skarmory and Forretress, Pokemon that are problematic for Chesnaught. Also, Mega Gengar is a fantastic partner for Chesnaught in order to keep entry hazards up against Starmie and Tentacruel, as it can trap and KO both of these spinners.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Crobat is the best counter. Access to Defog just screws this thing easy, and a 4x super effective STAB attack will put Chesnaught out of commission with ease. It can't do much to Crobat in return either. Flying-type Pokemon such as Talonflame, Hawlucha, Skarmory, and Xatu are Chesnaught's bane. The first performs an OHKO to Chesnaught with Brave Bird, putting an end to its chances to set up Spikes. Skarmory walls Chesnaught and can OHKO it with Brave Bird, Hawlucha can OHKO Chesnaught with Acrobatics, Xatu reflects Chesnaught's Spikes with Magic Bounce, and forces it to switch out to avoid taking a Psychic. Grass / Poison type Pokemon can freely switch in to take Hammer Arm, forcing Chesnaught to switch. Chandelure, like Trevenant and Gourgeist, can easily tease Chesnaught. Its immune to Chesnaught's Fighting-type STAB and resists its Grass-type attacks. Aegislash can switch in easily and set up on Chesnaught with Swords Dance, forcing it to switch out. Toxicroak can seriously damage Chesnaught with a Swords Dance-boosted Poison Jab. Dragonite and Salamence can easily switch in and set up on Chesnaught and kill it with Fire Punch, Fire Blast, or Outrage. Due to Chesnaught's lack of Speed and Special Defense, it can be easily killed by many powerful and faster Pokemon and must rely on support from its teammates in order to get KOs or setup opportunities.</p>
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
    mafreel likes this.
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I don't like any of the existing sets. The first set is completely hopeless against a ton of Pokemon, old and new, such as Trevenant, Roserade, Gourgeist, Forretress, and more. It has been established that SubSeed is a bad and unviable strategy in OU, with very few exceptions and Chesnaught doesn't seem to be one of them. Dealing a bit of damage every time you protect against contact moves doesn't make the SubSeed set suddenly viable, it just means that the opponent will either bring in special attackers, or Pokemon that can setup on it.

    The second set looks kinda useless too. It wants to boost to have any kind of power, but its special side and the ton of weaknesses it has there is left wide open to every special attacker to take advantage of. Not only this, but many physical attackers can deal with this set too, despite the fact that it can boost its Defense. Trevenant walls and burns with WoW, Aegislash walls and can setup faster with Swords Dance, Talonflame OHKOes with Flying STAB even at +1, and Skarmory phazes and takes little damage from all of your attacks even at +1. So, it is too slow to sweep anything, too weak before setting up, too easy to revenge kill, too easy to wall and that's it.

    The Swords Dance set is in a similar position, except that it can at least hit hard from the get go and has much less counters at +2. I guess it can do some wallbreaking, but the lack of any real Fighting move is really bad for him. I would say slash Hammer Arm with Brick Break to have as much power as possible. It is very useful against Pokemon such as Skarmory and Scizor, which you want to OHKO to avoid taking a potentially fatal hit back. Lastly, probably you don't need all the EVs in Speed, i am thinking that enough Speed to outrun minimum Speed Skarmory will be fine, as Chesnaught has very respectable physical bulk. You could also slash Synthesis with Swords Dance on this set, to make it a tank, capable of taking a lot of physical hits and dishing back some pain.

    Finally, add a bulky Spikes set with Synthesis and max HP / max Def+, which will probably be its best bet in OU. Yeah Spikes have been nerfed a lot with Defog, but they are still viable and Chesnaught has plenty of survivability and many things to differentiate from its main competitor, Ferrothorn. Fighting STAB, Ground resistance, Dark resistance, and Fighting neutrality make Chesnaught a very good switch-in to Choice Band Tyranitar, Excadrill, Shell Smash Barbaracle, Pangoro, and Tyrantrum, all Pokemon that Ferrothorn struggles to deal with.
  3. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Spikes is confirmed? I thought were not.
    Hm okay, adding bulky Spikes set.
  4. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Yeah, I'm generally agreeing with alexwolf on most of his points, I'm not really a huge fan of any of these sets. However, if I had to pick my favourite, it'd probably be the Bulk Up set. Sub Seed just isn't that viable in OU, while the Swords Dance set I feel really deteriorates it's good physical bulk with Life Orb recoil, but if you don't run Life Orb you're damage output is way too low. The Bulk Up set seems like the best set so far, but the EVs seem a bit off. I'd go with max HP and max SpDef, because when fully invested it has pretty nice special bulk.

    The best set is most likely the bulky Spikes set, but it has competition from Roserade and Ferrothorn. Make sure to mention how Chesnaught separates itself from these Pokemon, as it can beat Excadrill, Tyranitar, and has a solid Fighting STAB (unlike the other two). For the EVs I highly suggest max HP / max Def+, as Chesnaught shouldn't be trying to take both special and physical attacks. As for the moveset, I'd suggest Spikes / Seed Bomb / Synthesis / Hammer Arm.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  5. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Thanks for advices, so i can cut both SD and Subseed sets?
    Edited the last set description, and revised Bulk Up spread.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    No, this means that you should completely remove the SubSeed set and keep both the Bulk Up and SD sets for now. Also, add the bulky Spikes set that ShootingStarmie mentioned and make it the first in order.
  7. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    I had already added the bulky Spikes set before. I have make it first.
    Removed Subseed.
    Any advice for the description?
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Remove all the secondary slashes on the first set.
  9. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Ok, done.
    I'm testing again this Pokèmon.
  10. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    This evening, when I come back to home, I'll update this thread.
  11. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Ok, i'm back.
    I have edited some things in the opening post, and added Other Options.
    I think that its ready for QC.
  12. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Please remove the Other Options section.

    Thank you.
  13. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    On the Swords Dance set, I would put in Leftovers rather than Life Orb, since the Life Orb recoil in addition to Wood Hammer, or just pretty much any move on this set in general, can REALLY put a damper on Chesnaught's survivability. I would also consider attempting to look at a more bulkier spread for this, since, at the moment, it looks like a slower Breloom that lacks priority.
  15. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Without Orb, he's damage output is too low. Maybe I can try Seed Bomb on Wood Hammer, and for the Bulky Spread, I think that Max HP / Max SpD+ can be fine, because he has decent Defense stat, and invest EV in Special Defense, means that he can stand more special attacks.
    Unfortunately he hasn't any recovery move, except Synthesis, that is viable only in a defensive set.

    Edit: after some testing, I realize that Swords Dance set isn't too viable, because that set destroys Chesnaught's survivability, and without Life Orb, he deal a too low Damage Output. So, I remove that set, and if will be a chance, i'll put it in OO.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  16. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA Lonely Wanderer
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    Checks and Counters
    -Crobat is the BEST counter. Access to Defog just screws this thing over and a x4 STAB attack will put you out of commission with ease. You can't do much to it in return.
    -Mention Trevanant as a solid counter, it is immune to its fighting-type STAB and resists the Grass-type attacks. Gourgeist as well.
    -Mention Aegislash, can come in with impunity and set upon this guy, forcing a switch. Toxicroak outpaces and threatens with a swords dance boosted Poison Jab.
    -Mention Dragonite and Salamence as well.

    Yeah, these two sets seem fine.
    Also give a small mention (just a line or two) of the best way to use this thing for both sets.

    Lemme know when these changes are made, i'll skim through this once again before stamping it.
  17. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Thanks SOMALIA, this evening i'll edit with your advices.
  18. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Edited the analysis.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    The QC team decided to remove any boosting set, so keep only the defensive Spikes set. This thing's best use right now is to check a couple of physical attackers (Excadrill, Tyranitar, Tyrantrum, Pangoro, and Barbaracle) and set up Spikes.
  20. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Fixed. Thanks Alexwolf, now i think it's ready.
  21. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA Lonely Wanderer
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    Alright so before I go to bed....

    <li>He must be supported by entry hazards</li>

    You can remove that from cons since the offensive sets are removed.

    Mention how this guy works more (The idea is to come in pokemon that you can threaten out such Ttar and co. and attempt to set up spikes and Rotom should be changed to Rotom-W and that it can take on Crobat and Talonflame and in return it can force them out, Volt Switch and get you some momentum since you are slower. Also you can mention that this thing can give you an answer to lategame sweepers such as Lucario thanks to synthesis increasing its longevity substantially in combination with its great physical defense.

    Once that is done consider this...
    QC APPROVED 1/3
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Make it: Great physical bulk allows it to counter an array of physical attackers, with Excadrill being the most important.

    Add reliable recovery to its Pros.

    Add that its recovery gets fucked up against sand teams to its Cons.

    Add Magnezone as a partner, which counters Crobat and traps and KOes Scizor, Skarmory, and Forretress, all problematic Pokemon to Chesnaught. Also, mention spinblockers as partners to keep your hazards up against spinners such as Starmie and Tentacruel. Trevenant is the best Pokemon for this job but unfortunately it has similar weaknesses with Chesnaught so i am not sure. Mega Gengar is probably your best bet as it can trap and KO both of those spinners.


    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 2/3
  23. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Fixed with Somalia and Alexwolf's advices.
    Thanks for all guys!
  24. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Hm, need one more QC.
  25. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Yeah, we've talked about this a ton on IRC, I don't think there's much else to say. Good job man

    QC APPROVED 3/3

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