[COMPLETED] Heliolisk

dragonuser

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#1


[Pros]

<ul>
<li>It has high Speed and Special Attack.</li>
<li>It has access to a wide range of coverage moves, which when combined with its Special Attack makes it a fearsome attacker.</li>
<li>It cannot be paralyzed due to new mechanics this generation</li>
<li>It has access to Dry Skin and Solar Power, letting it work well on various weather teams.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>It has low overall bulk, making switching into attacks very dangerous.</li>
<li>The nerf to weather this generation decreases the utility of its abilities.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

name: <Special Attacker>
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: U-Turn / Volt Switch
ability: Dry Skin
item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

<p>This set attempts to make use of Heliolisk's good Speed and Special Attack. Thunderbolt is the STAB move of choice, with Hidden Power Ice and Focus Blast providing good supporting coverage. Grass Knot can be used instead of Hidden Power Ice, getting more damage against troublesome walls such as Specially Defensive Hippowdon. The last slot is all about switch momentum, thus U-turn is preferred as it cannot be blocked, however Volt Switch is also a viable option making use of Heliolisk's high Special Attack. Its important to note that U-turn will be doing pitiful damage even with the Life Orb boost, compared to the reliable damage of Volt Switch. Life Orb allows Heliolisk to perform as a premier wallbreaker, boosting its already high Special Attack and allowing it full access to its coverage moves. Choice Specs focuses more on raw power, trading its ability to change moves for the significantly higher damage output.</p>

<p>Politoed serves as a good partner for Heliolisk, letting it make better use of its ability Dry Skin, while also buffing Thunder and Surf, viable options for Heliolisk under rain. Heliolisk also really appreciates powerful physical threats as partners, being able to break the Special walls that stop this set. As result, Dragonite and Aegislash work fairly well as partners. Entry hazard-laying walls also make for good partners, such as Skarmory, which is immune to Heliolisk's Ground-type weakness while also setting up useful hazards on some of its counters.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Heliolisk has a lot of trouble breaking through specially defensive walls such as Blissey, Chansey, and Goodra. Similarly, specially defensive Electric-types such as Zapdos and Rotom-W make for good checks. If Heliolisk lacks Grass Knot, specially defensive Hippowdon works excellently, being able to heal off any minor damage it takes. For such an offensive and frail Pokemon, it is important to note that anything faster than Heliolisk can severely threaten it, as well as strong priority users given its weakness to Mach Punch.</p>
 
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#7
Does no one run glare on their Heliolisk? I love doing that.
It really helps vs sucker punch users and in the late game if my Heliolisk only has a sliver of life left I tend to use a glare too.

It's also useful when my Heliolisk is caught in a bad spot "Which often happens" and I can't afford to U-turn/Volt switch him out in fear of the new pokemon getting knocked out. It gives him at least one thing he can do before he gets KO'd.
 

alexwolf

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#9
Does no one run glare on their Heliolisk? I love doing that.
It really helps vs sucker punch users and in the late game if my Heliolisk only has a sliver of life left I tend to use a glare too.

It's also useful when my Heliolisk is caught in a bad spot "Which often happens" and I can't afford to U-turn/Volt switch him out in fear of the new pokemon getting knocked out. It gives him at least one thing he can do before he gets KO'd.
Take a look at the checks and counters of Heliolisk. Almost none of them gives a single fuck about Glare, which means this move is not worth it.
 
#10
I feel up to this point that Aegislash is one of the most prominent threats out there. Should Dark Pulse be considered as an option in the second slot to capitalize on Heliolisk's immunity to Shadow Sneak?
 
#11
Why not give Thunder a mention, if paired with Drizzlytoed? I mean, it's stronger than Thunderbolt, and if the rain is gone, you still have Volt Switch.

Edit: Also, I just found out this thing gets Surf too. Yeah, this thing could work nicely in the rain.
 

Zystral

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#13
[Pros]

<ul>
<li>It has high Speed and Special Attack.</li>
<li>It has access to a wide range of coverage moves, which when combined with its Special Attack makes it a fearsome attacker.</li>
<li>It cannot be paralyzed due to new mechanics this generation</li>
<li>It has access to Dry Skin and Solar Power, letting it work well on various weather teams.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>It has low overall bulk, making switching into attacks very dangerous.</li>
<li>The nerf to weather this generation decreases the utility of its abilities.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

name: <Special Attacker>
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: U-Turn / Volt Switch
ability: Dry Skin
item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

<p>This set attempts to make use of Heliolisk's good Speed and Special Attack. Thunderbolt is the STAB move of choice, with Hidden Power Ice and Focus Blast providing good supporting coverage. Grass Knot can be used instead of Hidden Power Ice, getting more damage against troublesome walls such as Specially Defensive Hippowdon. The last slot is all about switch momentum, thus U-turn is preferred as it cannot be blocked, however Volt Switch is also a viable option making use of Heliolisk's high Special Attack. Its important to note that U-turn will be doing pitiful damage even with the Life Orb boost, compared to the reliable damage of Volt Switch. Life Orb allows Heliolisk to perform as a premier wallbreaker, boosting its already high Special Attack and allowing it full access to its coverage moves. Choice Specs focuses more on raw power, trading its ability to change moves for the significantly higher damage output.</p>

<p>Politoed serves as a good partner for Heliolisk, letting it make better use of its ability Dry Skin, while also buffing Thunder and Surf, viable options for Heliolisk under rain. Heliolisk also really appreciates powerful physical threats as partners, being able to break the Special walls that stop this set. As result, Dragonite and Aegislash work fairly well as partners. Hazard-laying walls such as Skamory also make for a good partner, being immune to Heliolisk's Ground-type weakness while also setting up useful hazards on some of its counters.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Heliolisk has a lot of trouble breaking through Specilly Defensive walls such as Blissey, Chansey, and Goodra. Similarly, Specially Defensive Electric-types such as Zapdos and Rotom-W make for good checks. If Heliolisk lacks Grass Knot, Specially Defensive Hippowdon works excellently, being able to heal off any minor damage it takes. For such an offensive and frail Pokemon, it is important to note that anything faster than Heliolisk can severely threaten it, as well as strong priority users given its weakness to Mach Punch.</p>
gp approved
 

GatoDelFuego

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GP Co-Leader
#15
dragonuser

Entry hazard-laying
walls such as Skamory also make for a good partners, such as Skarmory, which is being immune to Heliolisk's Ground-type weakness while also setting up useful hazards on some of its counters.

<p>Heliolisk has a lot of trouble breaking through specially defensive walls such as Blissey, Chansey, and Goodra. Similarly, specially defensive Electric-types such as Zapdos and Rotom-W make for good checks. If Heliolisk lacks Grass Knot, specially defensive Hippowdon works excellently, being able to heal off any minor damage it takes. For such an offensive and frail Pokemon, it is important to note that anything faster than Heliolisk can severely threaten it, as well as strong priority users given its weakness to Mach Punch.</p>
 
#18
Because like...potato...or like...is there a reason that that means it's not worth it?
There's no purpose for Glare because that's not what Heliolisk is supposed to be doing. It's purely an all-out attacker and, thus, it shouldn't waste its potential by Glareing something that could be significantly damaged, not to mention that the stuff switching into Heliolisk don't care about paralysis/can't be paralyzed.
 
#19
There's no purpose for Glare because that's not what Heliolisk is supposed to be doing. It's purely an all-out attacker and, thus, it shouldn't waste its potential by Glareing something that could be significantly damaged, not to mention that the stuff switching into Heliolisk don't care about paralysis/can't be paralyzed.
I see, I can agree with that.
However, I don't like the assumption that the checks and counters are the only things that switch into him. Many times I've caught ground types off guard with a glare.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not disagreeing that the set above may be the most competitively viable. I'm just legitimately curious for the reasons behind the set.

Also I hate the idea of using focus miss on such a vulnerable pokemon, so many times it just misses and he gets KO'd.
 
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#24
It is weak to fighting types though which means Mach punch and vacuum wave will probably OHKO
It's also immune to Ghost, and is therefore immune to Shadow Sneak. Dry Skin heliolisk is immune to two powerful forms of priority which got increasingly popular this gen. That's why it's not just a weaker Jolteon.