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[COMPLETED] Metagross

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by Magcargo, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    [​IMG]
    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>Metagross has an amazing defensive typing, giving it nine resistances and one immunity.</li>
    <li>Its high Attack and Defense, give it a large amount of power and utility.</li>
    <li>Its Steel typing makes it a solid check to the newly released Fairy-type.</li>
    <li>By using an Assault Vest, Metagross can increase its mediocre Special Defense to great levels.</li>
    <li>The recent weather nerf means that Metagross no longer needs to fear powerful rain-boosted Hydro Pumps.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>Metagross faces competition with Scizor.</li>
    <li>Metagross gained weaknesses to Dark and Ghost, making it unable to check threats that it could last generation, such as Tyranitar and Gengar.</li>
    <li>It's still very slow by the metagame's standards</li>
    <li>Metagross is ineffective as an offensive sweeper due to its limited coverage, making it only viable in a defensive role.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: Tank<br />
    move 1: Meteor Mash<br />
    move 2: Earthquake<br />
    move 3: Bullet Punch / Zen Headbutt<br />
    move 4: Hammer Arm / Zen Headbutt<br />
    ability: Clear Body<br />
    item: Assault Vest<br />
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD<br />
    nature: Adamant</p>

    <p>With an Assault Vest, Metagross has the ability to function as a decent offensive pivot. Meteor Mash is the main STAB move, as it hits Fairy-types for super effective damage, has decent Base Power, and can boost Metagross's Attack stat. Earthquake eliminates Steel- and Fire-types, most notably Aegislash and Mega Charizard X. Bullet Punch is primarily used for utility, revenge killing weakened threats, and Fairy-type Pokemon. Despite giving redundant coverage, Hammer Arm is used to hit Air Balloon Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Greninja, and Mega Gyarados for super effective damage. Zen Headbutt is an acceptable alternative for either of these moves, as it hits Fighting-types for super effective damage, and is Metagross's most effective move against Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, Mega Venusaur, Gyarados, Rotom-W, and Mega-Blastoise, all of which would otherwise wall Metagross with little to no trouble.</p>

    <p>Pursuit eliminates fleeing Psychic-type Pokemon, while Grass Knot puts a dent in Hippowdon and Gastrodon. However, Metagross's weakness to Ghost-type attacks makes it an ineffective Pursuit trapper, while Grass Knot leaves Metagross walled by Air Balloon Excadrill, which can then set up a free Swords Dance as Metagross switches out.</p>

    <p>Even with Earthquake and Hammer Arm, Metagross still has a large amount of trouble with Steel-types. Because of this, Magnezone makes an excellent partner, as it can trap Steel-types with Magnet Pull and deal a massive amount of damage to them with Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Fire. Sticky Web support from Galvantula and Smeargle is also useful, as it allows Metagross to outspeed a larger portion of the metagame. Azumarill is also a very good partner, as it can eliminate Fire- and Ground-types with Aqua Jet, while also functioning as a check to Dark-types.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Skarmory and Forretress are Metagross's greatest counters, as they take little damage from all of Metagross's attacks due to their amazing defenses and typings and can set up multiple layers of hazards once Metagross switches out. Slowbro and Slowking make excellent counters, as both are not 2HKOed by Earthquake and can cripple Metagross with a potential Scald burn. or gradually defeat it with Slack Off and Scald or a Fire-type move. Gyarados is able to set up Hammer Arm Metagross and can defeat Zen Headbutt Metagross by Mega Evolving. Physically defensive Hippowdon and Gliscor aren't 2HKOed by anything in Metagross's arsenal and can deal major damage with Earthquake. Aegislash can function as a reliable check to Metagross, as it is not OHKOed by Earthquake and can put Metagross in a checkmate position with the combination of Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak. Life Orb and Mega Gengar can defeat weakened Metagross with Shadow Ball, but both need to watch out for Bullet Punch, and can only switch in safely on Hammer Arm or Earthquake, in non-Mega Gengar's case. Finally, Rotom-W can defeat Metagross by virtue of its typing and can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, which takes care of even Zen Headbutt Metagross.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  2. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    Alright, I believe this is ready for QC checks.
  3. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    You can probably still slide Choice Band and, maybe, Agility sets in here. Choice Band definitely, though really shaky on Agility since Agility feels weaker and weaker each generation.
  4. Magcargo

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    Yeah, I'll probably end up adding the CB set, but I'm doubting the viability of the Agility set currently due to its lack of power, coverage and bulk. Thanks for bring this up.
  5. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    No problem.

    I'll let QC settle on Agility set honestly.
  6. Namso

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    Discussed with QC and we concluded that AgiliGross is pretty bad, worse than it was in gen 5. It lost resistances, is maimed by Aegislash, and isn't strong enough to get passed physical walls in Hippowdon/Skarmory/etc. For that reason, mention in the cons that Metagross is ineffective as an offensive sweeper, and is thus limited to being played defensively.

    QC 1/3
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Before i stamp this i want you to sell me a bit more on your current EV spread and moveset. Why you need to tank a Fire Blast from Mega Charizard Y without Drought up (seems as a very rare scenario and as you mentioned it's not as Metagross should be facing this Pokemon or can do a lot back) and why is Pursuit so useful that you have it in the second slot? What important Ghost or Psychic-types can Metagross efficiently trap and KO?
  8. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    Important Psychic-types that Metagross can trap include Alakazam, Starmie and Gardevoir, as well as lesser seen Psychics like Xatu and Espeon. I suppose Pursuit can be lowered, as some of the main Psychics that Metagross needs to trap aren't available until December.

    As for the EV spread, I agree that it needs to be changed, albeit slightly. 112 Atk / 248 HP / 136 SDef / 12 Spd seems like a better spread, as Mega Alakazam is unable to 2HKO Metagross with Shadow Ball and Metagross still retains a large amount of power.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  9. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Remember to write the prose instructionally; it's a preview, so you need not worry much about fussing over individual moves' functions, teammates, and other options like a regular analysis. Also, put your Pros and Cons into full sentences.

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  10. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    Metagross @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch
    - Hammer Arm / Rock Slide

    I used this instead of the recommended EV distribution/moveset, and it performed admirably as the quintessential bulky offensive pivot. 363/296/317 defenses complement its typing superbly, and additional Special Defense investment would significantly compromise Metagross' natural offensive power. Besides, Alakazam coverage really shouldn't be a priority. Meteor Mash is super necessary (especially as it abuses Fairy types), because that 20% chance of raising attack offers opportunistic sweeping potential. Pursuit is weak sauce, and its former victims now wield super effective Shadow Ball. When not using Hammer Arm, there's a case for running a 30 speed IV to Earthquake Skarmory while it Roosts.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  11. Namikaze

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    I don't get what Drought has to do with Metagross getting 2HKOed by Mega Alakazam's Shadow Ball. Perhaps you missed a mention of Hidden Power Fire?
  12. AJC

    AJC

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    i think it should be pointed out that meteor mash was simultaneously buffed and nerfed with the nerfing being kinda big it's more reliable now with it being 90% acc but it's now noticeably weaker with it being 90 BP now instead of 100.

    the drop in BP might mean metagross now might miss out on (2h)KOs it used to get with meteor mash in older gens.
  13. Icyfreez342

    Icyfreez342

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    Would fitting in Zen Headbutt on that set for coverage against Fighting types that may try to come in help/make sense? I'm having trouble understanding what Hammer Arm covers that EQ + Zen Headbutt/Meteor Mash doesn't
  14. McGrrr

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    1. Things with Air Balloon (namely Excadrill)
    2. Ferrothorn
    3. Neutral hit against Skarmory, SE when it roosts.
    4. 100% OHKO on Mega Tyranitar after Stealth Rock (against which, 12 speed EVs would be helpful).
    5. Best option when SE against e.g. Kangaskhan.

    Fighting types aren't common (Lucario obviously takes neutral damage), and Zen Headbutt really has no other use except to hit Rotom/Azumarrill harder.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
    Icyfreez342 likes this.
  15. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    I am koko's bitch

    Alright, I tested this and Meteor Mash has ALOT more usefulness currently, especially with Jellicent not around...

    Before I give this its final stamp,


    -Give MM it's own slot.

    -Meteor Mash
    -Bullet Punch
    -Earthquake
    -Hammer Arm / Pursuit (EDIT)

    Mention Zen Headbutt in AC if you wish, its useless.

    Azumarill is part fairy so no, ZH isn't needed for it.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Zen Headbutt should definitely be slashed with Meteor Mash. It's your best bet against Rotom-W, Talonflame, regular Charizard on the switch (before it MEvolves) and Mega Charizard Y, Gyarados, Volcarona, and Venusaur, all very common Pokemon according to the only usage statistics we have atm. Othe than this i completely agree with the set that SUSANOO91 posted.

    EDIT: After thinking about it better, why is Pursuit even slashed first on the last slot? Ghost-types hit super effectively Metagross now with their STABs and are either faster (Gengar, Gourgeist-S) or have means of avoiding Pursuit (WoW on Trevenant and Gourgeist-H, and King's Shield on Aegislash). As for common Psychic-types we have Malamar, Gardevoir, Alakazam, Espeon, and Starmie, two of which are not weak to Pursuit anyway. So Pursuit is basically for Alakazam, Espeon, and Starmie. Pursuit has its uses but in no way should be slashed first. Hammer Arm should go first for Balloon Excadrill (very common), Ferrothorn, Greninja, and Mega Kangaskhan, all much more threatening Pokemon in general.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  17. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Half the Pokemon you mentioned are irrelevant to why ZH should not be slashed with MM. MM is way too important to be interchanged with some move that allows you to stay in on threats only to hope that they don't decide to attack and straight up OHKO you lol. Rotom-W doesn't give a toss about any move you throw at it and cripples with WOW. I don't mind the order of pursuit and hammer Arm however I feel that it should be slash one as it perfectly compliments the purpose of the item held, being AV. I don't like arguing over sets unless i test things in practise, which is what I did and haven't found much use for ZH to be given a slash with the most important move in this things arsenal.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  18. alexwolf

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    It's not only about what you would want to stay or switch in, it's about what would want to switch into you. Not giving a completely free switch-in to Rotom-W is great and i don't see how you can argue otherwise, especially when Rotom-W doesn't have Pain Split atm and commonly uses Rest + Chesto, meaning that doing 30.5 - 35.8% with Zen Headbutt is a great way to wear it down. OHKOing 192 HP Talonflame after SR is great. OHKOing Mega Charizard Y on the switch after SR is great. Walling and being able to do something back at Mega Venusaur is great, and as you agreed with me, being able to break the Sub of Gyarados and 2HKO it after SR is great. We are talking about threatening and common offensive Pokemon here, so i don't get how you can dismiss Zen Headbutt's usefulness. Not only is Zen Headbutt very useful to deal with Pokemon that you can check (such as Mega Venusaur) but it's also great for catching on the switch many of your common switch-ins, which is the same reason that many Pokemon use certain moves, eg Trevenant with Rock Slide (Rock Slide doesn't help it deal with what it checks/walls but it helps it catch threatening Fire and Flying-types on the switch). I am not even arguing about making it the first slash so i don't get what's the big deal here. Zen Headbutt has a lot of uses in the metagame that can't be argued.

    I have tested AV Metagross and this is not theorymon btw.
  19. McGrrr

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    Rock Slide better covers everything that you mentioned except Venusaur (Meteor Mash is fine) and Rotom. Zen Headbutt has very limited value and should never be an option over Meteor Mash, but you can make a case for it in the final slot.

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  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Zen Headbutt is great for Mega Venusuar and Rotom-W, which Rock Slide doesn't cover, but seeing as most people want Meteor Mash slashed alone, slash Zen Headbutt after Bullet Punch and Hammer Arm. Btw, Zen Headbutt > Rock Slide unless i am missing something. So make the set like this:

    Metagross @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch / Zen Headbutt
    - Hammer Arm / Zen Headbutt
  21. Namso

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    Zen Headbutt should just be slashed with Hammer Arm. Bullet Punch is very useful and I don't think it's a decent idea to potentially give it up. Zen Headbutt is good for two Pokemon, but Bullet Punch is good for a wide variety of circumstances.
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  22. alexwolf

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    Zen Headbutt is not for only two Pokemon Fuzznip, it's for a lot more as i already mentioned.
  23. latios777

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    Ice punch is an option for Gliscor, Landorus-T, dragons like Chomp, Nite and Mence....
    ZH OHKOes Keldeo and maybe Tentacruel, is not useless. Is useful against Conkeldurr, Volcarona in the switch, Amoonguss...(i'm thinking in the BW2 generation). With magnezone support, EQ is better than Hammer arm (but Excadrill is OU in this generation...)
  24. Namso

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    Wait, Rock Slide covers a lot of those as well. Talonflame, Charizard-Y, and Gyarados are hit super effectively. Zen Headbutt is, like I said, just for Mega Venusaur and Rotom-W. Zen Headbutt isn't getting past Trevenant with WoW/Sitrus Harvest/Leech Seed/etc. Same can be said for Gourgeist. You have Meteor Mash for them anyway.
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  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Why are we comparing it to Rock Slide anyway, when Zen Headbutt already OHKOes the things you want after SR and actually covers more stuff, such as Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur, and Mega Blastoise?

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