[COMPLETED] Pinsir

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by dragonuser, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>It has an incredible ability in Aerilate.</li>
    <li>It has access to both priority and a boosting move in Swords Dance.</li>
    <li>It is fast enough that it isn't only reliant on its priority.</li>
    <li>It has extremely high base stats in relevant areas, making it a very powerful sweeper.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>It's weak to Stealth Rock, seriously hurting its longevity.</li>
    <li>Talonflame is always an excellent check, due to its ability Gale Wings.</li>
    <li>It has somewhat limited offensive coverage.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: Physical Sweeper<br />
    move 1: Swords Dance<br />
    move 2: Quick Attack<br />
    move 3: Earthquake<br />
    move 4: Return<br />
    ability: Mold Breaker<br />
    item: Pinsirite<br />
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe<br />
    nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA) / Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)</p>

    <p>Pinsir received a wonderful gift this generation in the form of its Mega Evolution. Mega Pinsir has access to Aerilate, Swords Dance, base 155 Attack, and priority, all of which combine to make a very fearsome physical sweeper. Swords Dance is the obligatory boosting move of this set, pushing Mega Pinsir's already outrageous attack to new levels. Quick Attack is the most used move of this set, receiving the Aerilate boost and type change, while also helping offset Pinsir's average Speed against faster Pokemon. Earthquake gives Pinsir valuable coverage, primarily hitting Aegislash who would otherwise counter it.</p>

    <p>Close Combat and Stone Edge are also viable moves, but it's important to note that without Earthquake, Pinsir loses a lot of coverage and without Return, Pinsir is left without a powerful STAB attack. A Jolly nature allows Mega Pinsir to make the best use out of its naturally high base Speed, but at the cost of power. For teammates, Pinsir really appreciates physically defensive Rotom-W as its partner, as it is able to reliably counter both Talonflame and Skarmory. Similarly, specially defensive Tyranitar serves as an excellent partner for its ability to soundly wall both. Rapid Spinners or Defog users such as Starmie and Scizor also partner particularly well with Pinsir, given its large Stealth Rock weakness.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pinsir's longevity is drastically cut down by Stealth Rock. Being 2x weak before Mega Evolving and 4x weak after, switching into Stealth Rock severely hampers Pinsir's sweeping capabilities. Skarmory walls Mega Pinsir, due to its resistances to Mega Pinsir's STABs and naturally high physical bulk. Mega Pinsir also needs to worry about bulky Electric-type Pokemon, particularly Zapdos, as it resists Mega Pinsir's Flying-type STAB and is immune to Earthquake. Bronzong and Rotom-W both reliably check Mega Pinsir, but ironically fall victim to normal Pinsir due to its ability Mold Breaker. Other priority users such as Scizor and Mamoswine can be rather deadly to an unboosted Pinsir, while faster priority users such as Weavile and Talonflame always hold the capability of revenging it.</p>
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  2. pedro702

    pedro702

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    why adamant nature? with jolly pinsir is actualy faster than all base 100s since he has 105 speed in the mega form i think being faster than all base 100 is huge.
  3. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    I personally found the power increase to be a lot more helpful, especially given the buffed Quick Attack Pinsir has, but if the consensus seems to agree on Jolly then I don't have any issues with that.

    Added Jolly as a slash.
  4. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
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    looks good approved
  5. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Double Edge isn't available yet, so remove it.

    Since Pinsir is only really being used for it's Mega Evo, you need to expand on your checks and counters section. Stealth Rocks really wears it down so it deserves a mention, since it's x2 weak before it Mega Evolves, and x4 weak after. Mamoswine, Weavile Rotom-W, Zapdos, Scizor, and Jolteon all check it, so I'd mention them.

    Other than that this is cool, good job DU.

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  6. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    implemented, thanks
  7. Plus

    Plus I am the stone that the builder refused
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    edit: my bad disregard anything that was here prior
    [​IMG] dragonuser
  8. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
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    you know the colors
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    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>It has an incredible ability in Aerilate.</li>
    <li>It has access to both priority and a boosting move in Swords Dance.</li>
    <li>It is fast enough that it isn't only reliant on its priority.</li>
    <li>It has extremely high base stats in relevant areas, making it a very powerful sweeper.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>W It's weak to Stealth Rock, seriously hurting its longevity.</li>
    <li>Talonflame is always an excellent check, due to its ability Gale Wings.</li>
    <li>It has somewhat limited offensive coverage.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Pinsir @ Pinsirite<br />
    Ability: Mold Breaker<br />
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe<br />
    Adamant (+Atk, -SpA) / Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)<br />
    - Swords Dance<br />
    - Quick Attack<br />
    - Earthquake</p><br />
    - Return<br /></p>

    <p>Pinsir received a wonderful gift this generation,(RC) in the form of its Mega Evolution. Mega Pinsir has access to Aerilate, Swords Dance, base 155 Attack, and priority, all of which combine to make a very fearsome phsyysical sweeper. Swords Dance is the obligatory boosting move of this set, pushing Mega Pinsir's already outrageous attack to new levels. Quick Attack is the most used move of this set, receiving the Aerilate boost and type change, while also helping offset Pinsir's average Speed against faster Pokemon. Earthquake gives Pinsir valuable coverage, primarily hitting Aegislash who would otherwise counter it. Both Return and Double Edge also receive the Aerilate boost, and the choice between the two is dependent on power vs longevity.</p>

    <p>Close Combat and Stone Edge are also viable moves, but it'(apostrophe)s important to note that without Earthquake, Pinsir loses a lot of coverage and without Return or Double Edge, Pinsir is left without a powerful STAB attack. For teammates, Pinsir really appreciates physically Ddefensive Rotom-W as its partner, as it is able to reliably counter both Talonflame and Skarmory. Similarly, specially Ddefensive Tyranitar serves as an excellent partner for its ability to soundly wall both. Rapid Spinners or Defog users like such as Starmie and Scizor also partner particularly well with Pinsir, given its large Stealth Rock weakness.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pinsir's longevity is drastically cut down by Stealth Rock. Being 2x weak before Mega Evolving and 4x weak after, switching into Stealth Rock severely hampers Pinsir's sweeping capabilities. Skarmory walls Mega Pinsir, due to its resistances to Mega Pinsir's STABs and naturally high physical bulk. Mega Pinsir also needs to worry about bulky Electric-type Pokemon, particularly Zapdos,(AC) as it resists its Mega Pinsir's Flying-type STAB and is immune to Earthquake. Bronzong and Rotom-W both reliably check Mega Pinsir, but ironically fall victim to normal Pinsir due to its ability Mold Breaker. Other priority users such as Scizor and Mamoswine can be rather deadly to an unboosted Pinsir, while faster priority users such as Weavile and Talonflame always hold the capability of revenging it.</p>


    nice, clean work gp 1/1
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  9. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    Implemented GP check, thanks!

    While implementing I found a lingering mention of Double Edge which I removed. I also added a small sentence about jolly / adamant as ginganinja requested on IRC
  10. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    Personally, I think Hyper Cutter would be the better ability because it blocks Intimidate. Anyone else agree with me?
  11. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Having used MegaPinsir somewhat extensively, I can wholeheartedly say that Hyper Cutter / Jolly are almost always the better way to go. If it gets a chance to set up, the lack of power from Jolly as opposed to Adamant is completely negligible for the most part (feel free to post calcs to disprove me; I admittedly haven't done any myself, although +2 MegaPinsir RARELY fails to KO anything that doesn't resist its coverage), and the ability to avoid the Attack drops from Intimidate (and I suppose rarely Parting Shot) is invaluable.

    I know there are those situations where Moxie CAN be useful, but personally, I'd rather just set up SD and start sweeping, rather than have to risk getting KO'd as I pick something off (since normal Pinsir is slowish).
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Definitely put Hyper Cutter as the ability of choice for Pinsir. Not caring about Intimidate users on the switch is good.
    Banryu likes this.
  13. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    after a discussion on IRC we have decided to keep mold breaker.

    Main Reason:
    With Landorus-T not in pre pokebank metagame, Hyper Cutter is primarily used only for Gyarados; however, Mold Breaker has a lot of utility in breaking nearly hard counters in Rotom-W and Bronzong.
  14. KyuremG

    KyuremG

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    Add moxie, it can come in and revenge kill with quick attack for a free moxie boost and then mega evolve next turn with a huge amount of power
  15. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    So... what about after Pokebank (and Landorus) come out? Will Intimidate will be the better choice then?
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  16. Cherub Agent

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    double edge is still mentioned as an option in the last sentence of the first paragraph
  17. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    fixed, thanks
  18. Alphanex20

    Alphanex20

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    Donphan should be added to the list of possible checks/counters. A max attack donphan takes 50-60%, yes, but it OHKOes with a rock move (and has Sturdy/Rapid Spin/Roar for even more trouble). A fully defensive one could probably be a solid switch-in.
  19. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    Flail should be a legitimate option, especially with entry hazard damage accumulation; it's very easy to arrive at 1% HP for 200 base Flail.

    You could even argue a separate moveset with Substitute.
  20. Alphanex20

    Alphanex20

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    Not gonna happen with Aegislash/Scizor/Talonflame running around. Sub is even worse since Crobat and Noivern OHKO you through it.
  21. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    So you're highlighting the SAME problem Pokemon for EVERY Pinsir moveset?

    If you dare to run Mega Pinsir, you can dare to use Flail. I mean, I'm not suggesting it as a main attack/strategy. It's situational and opportunistic.
  22. Fuzznip

    Fuzznip Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
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    Of all the times I've been using Mega Pinsir, not once have I been brought down far enough to make Flail a viable option. And not once have I needed its power should I do get into Flail range. I typically OHKO almost everything after one Swords Dance, which is really easy to pull off. Also, putting yourself into a range to be picked off by priority is a turn-off. Now Aegislash can beat you and Fake Out Kanga or something. Pinsir doesn't need Flail, it's a monster as is with Return, which is far more consistent and reliable.
    tab and alexwolf like this.
  23. AJC

    AJC

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    no mention of Aerilate Thrash?

    While useless in pinsir's base form in it's mega form it's pretty decent since flying is a amazing attack type and unlike normal thrash and outrage nothing is immune to it and it hits really hard thanks to both stab and the Aerilate boost and mega pinsir's huge base attack stat.

    and you have coverage options that hit most of what does resist it with EQ and close combat hitting just about every flying resist Neutral at worse.

    so generally it's up to weather you want freedom with return or the raw power of thrash.
  24. Tesung

    Tesung

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    I think moxie is worth putting as an option. It's plus 2 quick attack is too weak to ohko things like genesect per say. But let's say there is an azumarill at 5 %. You don't quick attack right there, you swords dance and take like 50% from the aqua jet. You then quick attack and are at plus 3, ready to sweep. Also, while mold breaker eq is always nice, you do like 60% to rotoms with plus 2 return, and rotoms are so rarely at full health, as it is used as an early to mid game pivot and pinsir is a late game sweeper. I'm not saying moxie is the best, just that it is worth considering. Also, in the overview, I would mention that pros are that it has three useful abilities in normal form, as well as high defense that makes it fairly resilient against priority.
  25. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I'm in agreement that Thrash at least deserves a mention. It is really fucking powerful after a Swords Dance.

    +2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 293-345 (72.5 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 408-481 (97.1 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 219-258 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 300-354 (98.6 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

    Also my issues with mentioning Flail McGrrr :

    1) Sandstorm is pretty common. Tyranitar is at the least Top 20, and I doubt it will get below that. Probably will climb higher in usage.
    2) Awkward scenario. The biggest culprit is Pinsir would have to step onto Stealth Rock twice in its normal form, Mega Evolve, and step into Stealth Rock once more or Mega Evolve before Stealth Rock exists and switch in twice. Residual damage and such are also acceptable ways of getting into Flail range I guess, but what moves do bring it close to Flail range after SR (assume 25% cut, not the 50%)?

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