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[COMPLETED] Roserade

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by Epikhairz, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    First analysis on smogon don't kill me pls

    QC APPROVED 3/3 - Plus, SOMALIA, PK Gaming
    GP APPROVED 2/1 - Zystral, GatoDelFuego

    [​IMG]

    Skeleton (open)

    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>Decent 105 SpD and access to Spikes and Toxic Spikes allows it to also serve as a specially defensive spiker</li>
    <li>Above average 125 SpAtk allows it to hit quite hard, especially when it has access to moves like Leaf Storm</li>
    <li>Despite Sleep Powder getting a nerf this generation, it's still a nice move to have as it is capable of rendering a Pokemon temporarily useless</li>
    <li>Reliable recovery in Synthesis, Giga Drain and Rest, as well as being able to use Natural Cure to heal off sleep immediately after using the latter</li>
    <li>Natural Cure also allows Roserade to work as the status absorber for a team</li>
    <li>Gained the combination of Sleep Powder + Spikes this generation, something that is unique to Roserade and was previously illegal</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>Poor HP and Defense stats leave it struggling against physically offensive juggernauts in the tier</li>
    <li>Weak to many common types, such as the omnipresent Fire- and Ice-types</li>
    <li>Lacklustre base 90 Speed leaves much to be desired for, as it can be outsped by many common threats such as Alakazam</li>
    <li>Weak to priority moves such as Ice Shard or Talonflame's Brave Bird</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: Offensive Spikes<br />
    move 1: Leaf Storm<br />
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb<br />
    move 3: Sleep Powder<br />
    move 4: Spikes<br />
    ability: Natural Cure / Technician<br />
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash<br />
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    nature: Timid</p>

    • With the combination of Sleep Powder + Spikes being allowed this generation, Roserade is able to serve as an effective niche offensive Spikes user
    • Life Orb can be used for extra power, or Focus Sash to be guaranteed to survive one hit (provided no hazards on the field) and get the Sleep Powder + Spikes off
    • Leaf Storm puts dents in the majority of the metagame with a STAB boosted 140 BP attack
    • Hidden Power Fire is the best option for a coverage move, as it allows Roserade to actually hit Steel-types effectively and also hits the Grass-types that come in to absorb Sleep Powder super-effectively.
    • Sludge Bomb is a good coverage option, because its decent 90 BP and STAB allow it to hit the things Leaf Storm does not
    • Sleep Powder serves as a good utility move because sleep essentially renders an opposing Pokemon temporarily useless on most occasions and will also guarantee you one free turn of Spikes if used successfully
    • Spikes is the main purpose of this set, as the more layers of Spikes you have on the other side, the more the opposing team will get worn down. Also breaks sashes
    • Spikes is generally the better hazard, but you may also choose Toxic Spikes if that's what you decide your team needs more
    • Giga Drain can be used over Leaf Storm if you wish to give up hard hits for decent recovery. It also goes best with Life Orb, as it allows you to heal back recoil damage and also needs the boost of power Life Orb provides.
    • Able to absorb status and Toxic Spikes
    • A Ghost-type is recommended to spin block any Rapid Spin users who try to blow away all your hard work
    • Roserade pairs well with physically offensive Fire-types that can take down special walls that can take hits from Roserade, as well as opposing Grass-types and Steel-types, such as Talonflame
    • Arcanine in particular synergizes well with Roserade due to access to Intimidate, allowing it to weaken the physical attackers that Roserade is weak to.
    • Bulky Water types such as Slowbro or Vaporeon still work well with Roserade and create a balanced core
    • Spinner can be used to get rid of hazards so that the Focus Sash doesn't break, if that's what you're using

    <p>name: Special Attacker<br />
    move 1: Leaf Storm<br />
    move 2: Sludge Bomb<br />
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire<br />
    move 4: Rest / Sleep Powder<br />
    ability: Natural Cure / Technician<br />
    item: Life Orb<br />
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    nature: Modest / Timid</p>

    • Roserade can still use its great 125 SpA to be a deadly special attacker
    • Best used as a Life Orb user for a much needed power boost in its moves as well as having the option to use its utility and recovery moves
    • Modest is the preferred nature for the sheer power and the ability to 2HKO Florges
    • Leaf Storm is easily Roserade's most powerful move, and can put dents in a vast majority of the metagame
    • Sludge Bomb is a good coverage option, because its decent 90 BP and STAB allow it to hit the things Leaf Storm does not
    • Hidden Power Fire allows Roserade to actually hit Steel-types effectively, and gives Roserade a fighting chance against Aegislash, one of the most powerful and common Pokemon in OU
    • Rest is Roserade's best recovery option, as it's basically an in-game Full Restore, and the sleep status can be healed by switching out thanks to Natural Cure, but should only be used in conjuction with Natural Cure
    • Sleep Powder serves as a good utility move because sleep essentially renders an opposing Pokemon temporarily useless on most occasions
    • Roserade can also slot in Dazzling Gleam somewhere to cover a few Dragon-types, but that's only if the team really needs a lot more Dragon coverage, as STAB Leaf Storm still hits Flygon, Garchomp, and Kingdra a lot harder.
    • Weather Ball is a decent coverage option too because Roserade can turn the many weather inducers in the tier against them with great coverage options no matter what weather, though weather no longer has the impact it had in previous generations.
    • This set is not only a powerful hitter, it also can absorb special attacks well, and can absorb status easily thanks to Natural Cure
    • Technician can be used instead to give a nice boost to Hidden Power Fire, if that's what it's using
    • A Technician Hidden Power Fire is able to 2HKO 252 HP Aegislash, but without Technician, Aegislash can survive two Hidden Power Fires and OHKO with Iron Head
    • Roserade pairs well with physically offensive Fire-types that can take down special walls that can take hits from Roserade, as well as opposing Grass-types and Steel-types, such as Talonflame
    • Arcanine in particular synergizes well with Roserade due to access to Intimidate, allowing it to weaken the physical attackers that Roserade is weak to.
    • Bulky Water types such as Slowbro or Vaporeon still work well with Roserade and create a balanced core
    • Rhyperior is a great partner to Roserade as they cover each other's weaknesses well and are defensive and offensive in different areas.
    <p>name: Specially Defensive Spikes<br />
    move 1: Spikes / Toxic Spikes<br />
    move 2: Giga Drain<br />
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes<br />
    move 4: Rest / Synthesis / Sleep Powder<br />
    ability: Natural Cure<br />
    item: Black Sludge<br />
    evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD<br />
    nature: Calm</p>

    • Decent Special Defense makes it a great candidate for a specially defensive spiker
    • Has a niche in having both Spikes and Toxic Spikes and not being Forretress or Cloyster
    • Is able to absorb Toxic Spikes and status for the team as well, making it a great support Pokemon
    • Spikes or Toxic Spikes is the first move, for obvious reasons, and you use whichever is needed more on the team
    • Giga Drain gives it a good STAB attack option and reliable recovery to boot
    • Hidden Power Fire allows you to cover those that you can't hit well with Giga Drain, but the Hidden Power nerf brings it down to a measly 60 BP
    • Sludge Bomb can be used for coverage instead, as it has STAB and more base power, but covers less, and you won't be able to effectively hit Steel-types.
    • Toxic Spikes can be used over the coverage move slot to turn Roserade into a dual spiker
    • Rest is used in the final slot as a full recovery move, and the sleep status can be healed with a switch thanks to Natural Cure
    • Synthesis can be used over Rest if you'd rather give up a full recovery in exchange for not having to switch after use
    • Can give up recovery for a way to put the foe to sleep, rendering them temporarily useless and giving Roserade a free turn to set up hazards
    • Roserade has traditionally been paired up with bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Vaporeon to form defensive cores, and this still holds true in the new generation
    • A Ghost-type is useful to have on the team with this set, as a spinblocker helps your hazards stay on the field. A couple of good choices for Ghost-types are Mega Gengar, who can use Shadow Tag to get rid of certain threats, and Aegislash, who can use priority Shadow Sneak to get rid of Psychic-types

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Snorlax can take special hits all day, and RestTalk variants are able to attack through Sleep Powder
    • Crobat shuts down recovery, hazards, and Sleep Powder from Roserade, outspeeds, and can hit with STAB Brave Bird
    • Talonflame can take it down with priority Brave Bird
    • Anything wielding Ice Shard, most notably Mamoswine, can take it down with priority
    • Strong physical attackers can take advantage of its poor Defense and send it reeling with a strong hit
    • Steel-types have a much easier time handling Roserade this generation, due to the Hidden Power nerf
    • Goodra can take special hits all day too, and resists its Grass STAB and Hidden Power Fire
    • While Blissey is set-up fodder for Roserade, Roserade still can't touch Blissey


    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>Roserade possesses a decent base Special Defense of 105 and access to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, which allows it to serve as a specially defensive user of entry hazards.</li>
    <li>Roserade's above-average base 125 Special Attack allows it to hit quite hard, especially when it has access to moves such as Leaf Storm.</li>
    <li>Despite Sleep Powder getting a nerf this generation, it's still a nice move to have as it is capable of rendering a Pokemon temporarily useless.</li>
    <li>Roserade possesses reliable recovery in Synthesis, Giga Drain, and Rest, as well as being able to use Natural Cure to heal off sleep immediately after using the latter.</li>
    <li>Natural Cure also allows Roserade to work as the status absorber for a team.</li>
    <li>Roserade gained the combination of Sleep Powder + Spikes this generation, something that is unique to Roserade and was previously illegal.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>Roserade's poor HP and Defense stats leave it struggling against many of the physically offensive juggernauts in the tier</li>
    <li>It is weak to many common types, such as the omnipresent Fire- and Ice-types</li>
    <li>Its lackluster base 90 Speed leaves much to be desired, as it can be outsped by many common threats such as Alakazam</li>
    <li>It is weak to priority moves such as Ice Shard or Talonflame's Brave Bird</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: Offensive Spikes<br />
    move 1: Spikes<br />
    move 2: Sleep Powder<br />
    move 3: Leaf Storm<br />
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire<br />
    ability: Natural Cure / Technician<br />
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash<br />
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    nature: Timid</p>

    <p>With the combination of Sleep Powder and Spikes being legal this generation, Roserade is able to serve as an effective offensive Spikes user with the unique ability to put the foe to sleep to get more layers up. Leaf Storm is the STAB attack of choice here, as it is able to put a massive dent in the majority of the metagame. As for a coverage move, Hidden Power Fire is generally the better option, as it can actually hit Steel-types and can hit Grass-types coming in to absorb Sleep Powder. It can also be used in conjunction with Technician for a nice power boost. Sludge Bomb is also worth considering, as a secondary STAB option that has a better base power than Hidden Power is always nice. It's worth mentioning that Toxic Spikes can be used over Spikes, depending on your team composition, but Spikes is generally preferred. Leaf Storm can also be replaced with Giga Drain if Roserade is using a Life Orb; Giga Drain trades raw power to reliable recovery, as it also nullified Life Orb damage. Of course, Life Orb becomes necessary to mitigate the huge loss in power.</p>

    <p>Because Roserade is attempting to lay down entry hazards with this set, a Ghost-type is a great teammate to have, as it is able to prevent opposing Pokemon from using Rapid Spin to remove your entry hazards. If Roserade is using a Focus Sash, it can be paired up with a Rapid Spin or Defog user to get rid of entry hazards so that the Focus Sash doesn't break when Roserade is switched in.</p>

    <p>name: Special Attacker<br />
    move 1: Leaf Storm<br />
    move 2: Sludge Bomb<br />
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire<br />
    move 4: Rest / Sleep Powder<br />
    ability: Natural Cure / Technician<br />
    item: Life Orb<br />
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    nature: Modest / Timid</p>

    <p>Roserade is not just a dedicated setter of entry hazards; it can use its above average Special Attack of 125 to turn itself into an deadly offensive threat. A Modest nature is preferred for this set for the ability to 2HKO Florges. Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb are your main STAB moves; the former has incredible amounts of power whereas the latter gives useful coverage and consistent damage output. Hidden Power Fire is the best option for a non-STAB coverage move, as it allows Roserade to hit Steel-types and gives Roserade a fighting chance against Aegislash, an omnipresent threat in OU. Rest is Roserade's best recovery option, as it's basically an in-game Full Restore, but should only be used with Natural Cure so it can switch out and heal off the sleep status. Sleep Powder is a viable option for the final moveslot as it renders the foe useless most of the time, but if Roserade uses this, it will have no recovery options. Roserade's Dream World Ability Technician is an option worth considering. This boosts the power of Hidden Power and allows Roserade to 2HKO 252 HP Aegislash with it, though Natural Cure is still the preferred ability as it allows Roserade to use Rest and act as a status absorber. This is especially useful to completely counter Rotom-W while maintaining a constant offensive presence.</p>

    <p>Roserade pairs well with physically offensive Fire-types, as they can take down any special walls that would otherwise take hits from Roserade easily. A couple of examples of this would be Talonflame or Charizard X. Arcanine in particular pairs well with Roserade, as it not only does the same thing as the Pokemon listed above, but also has access to Intimidate to lower the attack of opponents, which helps mask Roserade's poor Defense. Bulky Water-types such as Slowbro or Vaporeon form an extremely sturdy balanced core. Finally, physical tanks such as Mega Aggron pair up great with Roserade, as they are both defensive and offensive in areas different from Roserade.</p>

    <p>name: Specially Defensive Spikes<br />
    move 1: Spikes / Toxic Spikes<br />
    move 2: Giga Drain<br />
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes<br />
    move 4: Rest / Synthesis / Sleep Powder<br />
    ability: Natural Cure<br />
    item: Black Sludge<br />
    evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD<br />
    nature: Calm</p>

    <p>Roserade can use its decent Special Defense to support the team with a specially defensive Spikes set. It can not only set entry hazards, but also absorb Toxic Spikes on the switch, and absorb status thanks to Natural Cure. Spikes is generally the better entryhazard to use, but Toxic Spikes is also a viable option if the team needs it more. Giga Drain's added recovery is the main reason why it's used over Leaf Storm. Sludge Bomb, while stronger than Hidden Power Fire and gets STAB, only covers Grass- and Fairy-types, as opposed to the coverage on Steel-types from Hidden Power. Coverage can also be forgone completely in favor for Toxic Spikes, making Roserade a dual spiker. Rest is the best option for the final move, as it completely heals Roserade and the sleep status can be healed by switching. Synthesis can be used instead if making the switch is too much of a hassle, though it heals significantly less. Finally, Roserade can run Sleep Powder instead for a free turn to set up hazards at the cost of longevity</p>

    <p>Traditionally, in past generations, Roserade has been paired up with bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Vaporeon to form incredibly resilient defensive cores, and this still holds true to this day. Also, because this is yet another Spikes set, a Ghost-type is still a great teammate to have, because it prevents Rapid Spin users from spinning away your entry hazards. A couple of good choices for Ghost-type teammates are Mega Gengar, which can trap and kill threats as necessary, and Aegislash, which can use priority Shadow Sneak to get rid of Psychic-types.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because of Roserade's poor Defense stat, anything with a high Attack stat will put a massive dent in Roserade. One thing in particular that Roserade is extremely weak to are the physical Fire-types mentioned previously that pair up well with it, such as Charizard X. However, many special Fire-type attackers such as Volcarona and Delphox will have no trouble bringing Roserade down. Also, due to the Hidden Power nerf, Steel-types will have a much easier time handling Roserade's attacks. Some Steel-type threats include Aegislash and Scizor, both of which can deal massive damage with STAB attacks; especially Scizor and its STAB U-turn. Crobat is also a great answer to Roserade; its Taunt renders Roserade incapable of using its many support moves and it resists both of Roserade's STAB attacks. It can also hit back with a super effective Brave Bird and remove entry hazards with Defog. Talonflame can also take most of Roserade's attacks quite well and KO with priority Brave Bird. Anything wielding Ice Shard will put a dent in Roserade and most likely KO as well.</p>

    <p>One of Roserade's best, yet uncommon counters is Snorlax, which can take special hits all day and retaliate with strong physical hits. RestTalk variants in particular are extremely useful in getting rid of Roserade, as it can still attack through Sleep Powder using Sleep Talk. Goodra, a more common Pokemon in the metagame, can also take special hits very well, and resists Roserade's Grass STAB and Hidden Power Fire. In fact, the Dragon-types in the tier that do resist Leaf Storm have an easy time bringing down Roserade.</p>
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  2. Plus

    Plus real vibes
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    No mention of Sleep Powder + Spikes? That's probably one of the best reasons to use Roserade this generation, as it was previously illegal before (you should probably mention this combo as a pro somewhere). The ability to sleep something allows you to get free layers of Spikes up, which is really nifty. You could probably include an offensive spiking set in here somewhere, probably something along the lines of

    Roserade @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVS: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder

    You don't need to add this set right away; other QC members can chime in on this and I'll talk to them about it later, but Spikes + Sleep Powder should definitely be mentioned somewhere in this preview, as this is quite unique to Roserade.
    Ernesto likes this.
  3. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
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    Wow can't believe I forgot about that, though personally, I would use Giga Drain > Leaf Storm for some form of recovery

    I'll wait for other QC to say some things, then I'll be sure to edit it in (probably going to change the Defensive Spiker set to reflect the Sleep Powder + Spikes change)

    Actually now I'm gonna ask - one Spikes set? Or an Offensive and a Defensive?
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  4. Namso

    Namso
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    I don't really like defensive Roserade in OU for a few reasons.

    1. Not running any Special Attack leaves it pretty vulnerable to many offensive and defensive threats. For example, Aegislash, Talonflame, Skarmory, Gyarados, etc, can all almost freely set up. Giga Drain and Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb off of uninvested Special Attack are really weak. It's pretty much just bait and easily taken advantage of for this reason.
    2. Synthesis is a poor move to run in OU currently with the advent of weather effects nullifying the 50% recovery. Sand is pretty common and rain still exists, so you're pretty much forced to carry Ninetales or Mega Charizard-Y or something for sun if you want a consistent Synthesis.
    3. Because Synthesis is rather poor, running Rest is also a pretty bad option as well. Not only are you forced to switch out after you use it, the opponent can predict the turn you Rest and thus bring in some kind of set-up sweeper or a Pokemon to megavolve free of charge. It's pretty risky I think.

    So I mean, if you want a defensive Spikes or Toxic Spikes user, there are many other arguably better alternatives. Especially since sleep got nerfed, Sleep Powder isn't a massive boon anymore. Hell, it's not even listed in the set itself. So for these reasons, I'm inclined to reject a set for defensive Roserade at the moment, but I'd like to hear input from other people before I fully convince myself it's not worth it.

    I was talking to Plus about the set he posted too, and I think it's the best set Roserade can perform in OU. You can argue it's outclassed by Greninja as an offensive Spiker, but Roserade differentiates itself with a decent typing, absorbing opposing Toxic Spikes and resisting the omnipresent Fighting-type attacks, as well as having Sleep Powder to basically score a free Spikes layer and hampering one of the opponent's Pokemon for a few turns. Life Orb Leaf Storm also hits pretty damn hard. I'd make the set like this:

    Roserade @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVS: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Fire
    - Sleep Powder
    - Spikes

    With Toxic Spikes mentioned in AC since Roserade is better off using Spikes. Likewise with defensive Roserade, I'd like to see some talk about this set from other people as well.
    tab likes this.
  5. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
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    OK I'll work on getting the offensive Spikes set into the skeleton. I'm going to keep the defensive spikes set until I get more QC input on the matter though :x

    Also, does no one else use Giga Drain > Leaf Storm on offensive spikes set for recovery?
  6. Alter

    Alter let me down easy
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    Generally Roserade will want to dish out as much damage as it possible can in the first hit, despite it making it a bit more prone to being set up on afterwards. On the offensive spikes set, it aims to do as much as it can in the shortest amount of time. This is also a pretty relevant calc, among others:

    252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 385-455 (99.74 - 117.87%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  7. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
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    OK Offensive Spiker added as top set

    Also moved Defensive Spiker to the bottom because that's the one set that's getting panned
  8. Ckarasu

    Ckarasu

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    No mention of Technician and HP? Now that the typing of HP is not so detrimental to your IVs, running a HP move is more viable. Add in the technician boost, and I feel that there's merit to it. Assault Vest can also be employed to add special bulk in tandem with Giga Drain to gain back health, though this particular set is more gimmicky than a pure sweeping set with Technician.

    I think that this is a viable set.
    Pure Offensive
    Roserade @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVS: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Giga Drain/Magical Leaf
    - Hidden Power Ghost
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Dazzling Gleam/Sleep Powder

    Spikes set is great, but not as strong with presence of Defog and Rapid Spinners. In fact, most Defog users really don't mind Spikes being down and are able to just blow them away with no effort. This particular set has perfect coverage, and I chose HP Ghost because it has 10 BP higher. Magical Leaf also has some appeal due to its Technician boost, giving it a respectable 90 BP. Leaf Storm is ultimately hazardous to use, given that Aegislash could just come in on that and then shrug off your -2 Sp Atk. Dazzling Gleam can be removed in favor for Sleep Powder as there are only a few, relatively uncommon, pokemon that resist Roserade should it not be on your moveset. You hit hard with this set, and don't particularly mind the loss of Leaf Storm. In fact:

    252 SpA Life Orb Technician Roserade Magical Leaf vs. 252 HP / 180+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 190-226 (47.02 - 55.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Naturally, this assumes a bulky TTar that is investing in Special Bulk more than attack. Still, you don't miss Leaf Storm that much when it means the standard set(not as bulky) cannot switch in at all on you.

    Just an idea. Apologies if not up to snuff.
  9. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
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    Technician Roserade is just not strong enough to stand out in XY OU imo. This is a meta where Roserade almost has to stick with Leaf Storm just to stand out offensively to some degree. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'll be sure to give it a test though, just to make sure I'm not sounding like a retard in case I am wrong.

    Assault Vest Roserade actually sounds quite intriguing to me cuz that makes it kinda like a bulky attacker, though it loses out to the many physical attackers in the tier. I'll test this one out as well

    Any other QC are free to give their opinions on any set on the thread though :P
  10. Ckarasu

    Ckarasu

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    125 Special Attack is by no means obsolete, and Technician allows it to have a 90 BP coverage move. Leaf Storm is great in its own rights, but it's extremely predictable. If your opponent sees Roserade out, they'll assume a Leaf Storm. I don't think that invalidates the set, but it does give merits to other sets. Do be sure to test it, as I feel that it definitely has some appeal.
  11. Epikhairz

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    Bump for QC feedback. Tell me if I'm not allowed to do this please
  12. alexwolf

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    Definitely slash Technician after Natural Cure on any offensive set. The boost to Hidden Power Fire is just too good to not be mentioned at all. Also, on the first set you should slash Hidden Power Fire before Sludge Bomb. It hits harder most Grass-types that could switch-in to absorb Sleep Powder or tank a Leaf Storm (Ferrothorn and Trevenant) and also OHKOes Forretress after its Sturdy has been broken. So Hidden Power Fire allows Roserade to be both a better Sleep user and a better Spikes user and for those reasons should be slashed first.

    Make the all-out attacking set look like this:

    <p>Roserade @ Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Natural Cure / Technician<br />
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    Modest / Timid Nature<br />
    - Leaf Storm<br />
    - Sludge Bomb<br />
    - Hidden Power Fire<br />
    - Rest / Sleep Powder</p>

    Modest is the preferred nature to always 2HKO Florges and in general for the sheer power so it should be slashed first unless there is something you miss on outspeeding that i am overlooking. Hidden Power Fire is a must, otherwise you are walled by Ferrothorn and other Steel-types, especially Aegislash, and we all know why you shouldn't be giving free switches to this beast. Technician is great for this very reason, to 2HKO 252 HP Aegislash, which otherwise can survive two Hidden Power Fire and OHKOs back with Iron Head. However, Natural Cure is still the preferred option as it allows you to use Rest reliably and completely counter Rotom-W, a huge pain in the ass for many teams.
  13. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
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    OK changes implemented thanks!
  14. Plus

    Plus real vibes
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    ok a few things before I stamp:

    On the first set, do NOT say that "spikes is the crux of this set." This is more of a cultural thing here at Smogon where a shit ton of analyses and articles used this phrase to the point where you should avoid it altogether. For the other bullet regarding Giga Drain, make a note that Giga Drain goes best with Life Orb as it appreciates the boost in power and also lets you regain recoil damage.

    Mention Blissey and Goodra in the counters section. Even though Blissey lets you spikestack a fair amount most of the time, it's completely walling you.

    Just make sure when you write this up that it isn't redundant; for example, I'm seeing on the second set stuff like

    When you write it up you'd probably just group Gengar and Aegislash into the spinblocker category as opposed to writing stuff for each of these three bullets. Just food for thought before you get the 2nd stamp and write this up.

    [​IMG]
    1/3
  15. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
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    when i got the offensive spikes set...i kinda c/p'd one of my sets to make it :3.

    Thanks for the stamp! I'll be sure to make the changes ASAP

    EDIT: Changes implemented for those who care
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  16. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Honestly if you're getting technical with Technician, the priority of moves would still be:

    Leaf Storm > Giga Drain (defensive-ish sets) > Grass Knot > Energy Ball >>>>>>>>>>>>> lolMagical Leaf.

    Grass Knot at least can hit around 100-120 BP and the targets that sit at 60 BP (Vaporeon, soon Gastrodon, Gliscor to name a few) convert to 90 BP.

    Nevermind that Leaf Storm is obviously still stronger.

    Also one minor suggestion. For this set:

    <p>Roserade @ Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Natural Cure / Technician<br />
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    Modest / Timid Nature<br />
    - Leaf Storm<br />
    - Sludge Bomb<br />
    - Hidden Power Fire<br />
    - Rest / Sleep Powder</p>

    I would at least mention Dazzling Gleam in the comments. While an eh move, it does hit Dragons stronger than STAB Sludge Bomb (Garchomp and lolFlygon get hurt more by Leaf Storm, though. Same with Kingdra). Weather Ball might also be worth a mention if only because Roserade doesn't really give two fucks in what weather it exists in. Hail gives it an Ice-type attack, Sun gives it Fire instead of relying on HP Fire, Sand for Rock, Rain for Water to at least harass Fire-types.
  17. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Look at me.
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    OK added Dazzling Gleam and Weather Ball in AC and changed the sets to old classic format.

    Keep the feedback coming!
  18. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    QC APPROVED 2/3
  19. Epikhairz

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    Thanks for the approve! I'll get this written ASAP
  20. Epikhairz

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    Sorry for double post, but this is written and ready for third QC check
  21. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    You need to refrain from mentioning Pokemon that don't appear in standard.

    Rhyperior is shouldn't be mentioned over relevant physical tanks, and you should technically refer to Mega Aggron, instead of Aggron.

    Same thing, why is Snorlax mentioned over more relevant checks and counters, like Scizor, Aegislash, Volcarona, Fire-types and Dragon-types?

    Fix that and you can consider this stamped.
  22. Epikhairz

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    OK removed Rhyperior mention, changed to Mega Aggron, and did a little bit of reorganization with C&C so it is less mixed and muddled, and added threats such as Scizor which I legitimately forgot about (how does an OU player forget bout Scizor idk :( )

    I guess this is GP ready now
  23. Omicron

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    This analysis is a bit wordy, I would recommend trimming certain sections down before submitting this to GP. There's a bit of unnecessary fluff in the Special Attacker set - that's the main offender.
  24. Epikhairz

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    ok trimmed down some sections and removed an entire paragraph from the Special Attacker set.

    I think its ready but just tell me if its still too long
  25. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    I appreciate that I may have cut some important sentences, but sometimes conciseness and clarity take stand. I tried to be as minimal in cleaning this up as possible, mainly removing anything that was obvious or unnecessary. If you feel they still should be there, try to shorten them a bit and fuse them with other sentences where possible.

    This is well written, but perhaps think about what you say/explain and try to 1) avoid repeating yourself, and 2) Keep it simple and try not to state the excessively obvious.

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