[COMPLETED] Sharpedo

dragonuser

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[Pros]

<ul>
<li>It has access to an amazing offensive ability, Speed Boost.</li>
<li>It has high Attack and Speed stats, making it a fearsome physical sweeper.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>It is extremely frail, leaving it open to being revenge killed by priority.</li>
<li>It lacks useful boosting moves, limiting its sweeping potential.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>name: Physical Sweeper<br />
move 1: Protect<br />
move 2: Waterfall<br />
move 3: Crunch<br />
move 4: Ice Fang / Earthquake<br />
ability: Speed Boost<br />
item: Life Orb<br />
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe<br />
nature: Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)</p>

<p>This set attempts to make the best use out of Sharpedo's naturally high Attack stat and ability, Speed Boost. Protect helps Sharpedo get the few necessary turns it needs to boost its Speed, as with its low bulk, it is unable to tank any attacks. Waterfall and Crunch both get a STAB boost and have good synergy together. The choice between Ice Fang and Earthquake is dependent on what threats Sharpedo wants to beat. Ice Fang is able to hit Dragon-types super effectively, primarily targeting Garchomp, Dragonite, and Zygarde. Earthquake, however, is able to reliably beat Aegislash without being forced into mind games with Kings Shield.</p>

<p>Mega Gengar serves as an excellent partner for Sharpedo. It is able to trap most of the physical walls that trouble it, while also serving as a way to trap priority users like Breloom who could otherwise end a Sharpedo sweep. Politoed also serves as a reliable partner, with its Drizzle ability drastically increasing the power of Sharpedo's main STAB attack Waterfall.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Physically defensive walls such as Skarmory, Chesnaught, and Ferrothorn make for the best Sharpedo counters. Rotom-W also fairs decently, threatening Sharpedo with a STAB Volt Switch or Will-O-Wisp while also being able to reliably take hits. Priority users in general are excellent stops to Sharpedo. Due to its frailty, nearly any priority attack will do enough damage to hinder its sweeping potential. Talonflame, Dragonite, Zygarde, and Breloom do particularly well at checking Sharpedo. Azumarill, in particular, serves as an excellent check, resisting Sharpedo's STABs while having a priority move in Aqua Jet.</p>
 
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ok i know that this is still a work in progress, but i have to say sash-pedo is amazing, Sharpedo itself is a very frail pokemon, often being ohko'd by just nuetral stab, and it is weak to the common priority move mach punch, it does however have a very good atk stat even unboosted so 2 hits with the correct coverage move will ko most threats, and holding a sash allows it to take in that priority move, and stick around to attack back, of course to use this set a spinner is highly recomended on the team, well anyway thats my opinion, its nice to see sharpedo geting an analysis though, only problem is it will face some competition from greninja so you should probably point out some selling points as to why to use sharpedo instead (for instance how it is a physical attacker instead of special)
 

Arkian

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[Pros]

<ul>
<li>It has access to an amazing offensive ability, Speed Boost.</li>
<li>It has high Attack and Speed stats, making it a fearsome physical sweeper.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>It is extremely frail, leaving it open to being revenged revenge killed by priority.</li>
<li>It lacks useful boosting moves, limiting its sweeping potential.</li>
<li>will add more later.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Sharpedo @ Life Orb<br />
Ability: Speed Boost<br />
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe<br />
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)<br />
- Protect<br />
- Waterfall<br />
- Crunch<br />
- Ice Fang / Earthquake</p>

<p>This set attempts to make the best use out of Sharpedo's naturally high Attack stat and ability, Speed Boost. Protect helps Sharpedo get the few necessary turns it needs to boost its Speed, as with its low bulk,(AC) it is unable to tank any attacks. Waterfall and Crunch make use of Sharpedo's STABs Waterfall and Crunch both get a STAB boost,(RC) while complementing each others weaknesses and have good synergy together. The choice between Ice Fang and Earthquake is dependent on what threats Sharpedo wants to beat. Ice Fang is able to hit Dragon-types super effectively, primarily targeting Garchomp, Dragonite, and Zygarde. Earthquake, however, is able to reliably beat Aegislash without being forced into mind games with Kings Shield.</p>

<p>Mega Gengar serves as an excellent partner for Sharpedo. It is able to trap most of the Physical physical walls that trouble it, while also serving as a way to trap priority users like Breloom who could otherwise end a Sharpedo sweep. Politoed also serves as a reliable partner, with its ability Drizzle Drizzle ability,(RC) drastically increasing the power of Sharpedo's main STAB attack Waterfall.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Physically Defensive defensive walls such as Skarmory, Chesnaught, and Ferrothorn make for the best Sharpedo counters. Rotom-W also fairs decently, being able to threaten threatening Sharpedo with a STAB Volt Switch or Will-O-Wisp,(RC) while also being able to reliably take hits. Priority users in general are excellent stops to Sharpedo. Due to its frailty, nearly any priority attack will do enough damage to hinder its sweeping potential. Talonflame, Dragonite, Zygarde, and Breloom do particularly well at checking Sharpedo. Azumarill, in particular, serves as an excellent check, resisting Sharpedo's STABs while at the same time having a priority move in Aqua Jet.</p>


Good job, the only main problem was comma placement.


 
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Lee

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So according to Serebii, Sharpedo gets Destiny Bond now. Excellent synergy with Speed Boost + frailty. Might wanna reopen this analysis.
 
Actually this needs redoing unless someone can provide evidence of Speed Boost been available because Serebii says it isn't, and as far as I'm aware there's no evidence anywhere to the contrary.
 

McGrrr

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The only relevant defensive calculations that Sharpedo users should be concerned with are:
  • +2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 161-189 (57.7 - 67.7%)
  • 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo: 162-191 (58 - 68.4%) & 4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 88-105 (31.5 - 37.6%)
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 120-141 (43 - 50.5%)
  • 0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 216-255 (77.4 - 91.3%)
  • 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 139-165 (49.8 - 59.1%)
  • 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 166-195 (59.4 - 69.8%)
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 94-112 (33.6 - 40.1%)
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 162-192 (58 - 68.8%)
  • 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo: 132-156 (47.3 - 55.9%)
Otherwise, Sharpedo should only ever be allowed to sustain residual damage. That means a 29 HP IV should be recommended to reduce Life Orb/entry hazard/poison/burn/Leech Seed damage. Note that switching into Stealth Rocks and attacking once already compensates for the 2 HP disadvantage.
  • Hydro Pump should be an option as a reliable 2HKO on Skarmory, even with Adamant, which is guaranteed by Naughty.
  • Aqua Jet should be mentioned somewhere because we have priority over Talonflame after one Speed Boost.
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 234-276 (79.3 - 93.5%)
  • Poison Jab should be another option, as it hits Breloom and Virizion as well as fairies.
Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant / Naughty Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall / Hydro Pump
- Destiny Bond / Poison Jab / Ice Fang / Earthquake

Crunch is our main attack because it's simply so spammable now.
 
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McGrrr

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Perhaps mention Focus Energy & Night Slash as an alternative to Protect & Crunch:
  • With Scope Lens, Night Slash has a 50% CH rate before Focus Energy. After Focus Energy, everything has a 100% CH rate.
  • Without Scope Lens, Night Slash still has a 100% CH rate after Focus Energy, with a 50% chance for everything else. Stacking CH Night Slash with Life Orb has its merits since Dark type attacks are so spammable.
  • The idea is to use Focus Energy on the switch to threaten something that would survive a non-CH.
 
Perhaps mention Focus Energy & Night Slash as an alternative to Protect & Crunch:
  • With Scope Lens, Night Slash has a 50% CH rate before Focus Energy. After Focus Energy, everything has a 100% CH rate.
  • Without Scope Lens, Night Slash still has a 100% CH rate after Focus Energy, with a 50% chance for everything else. Stacking CH Night Slash with Life Orb has its merits since Dark type attacks are so spammable.
  • The idea is to use Focus Energy on the switch to threaten something that would survive a non-CH.
There is no reason to waste a turn using Focus Energy when you can attack on the switch and after (2 hits > then focus energy + a ch..), Critical hits aren't even x2 anymore so that just makes this really redundant. On top of that only Night Slash will be getting the 100% critical hit..what if the switch in can tank it easily, you just wasted a turn for nothing where you could have at least got some kind of damage.
 

McGrrr

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There is no reason to waste a turn using Focus Energy when you can attack on the switch and after (2 hits > then focus energy + a ch..), Critical hits aren't even x2 anymore so that just makes this really redundant. On top of that only Night Slash will be getting the 100% critical hit..what if the switch in can tank it easily, you just wasted a turn for nothing where you could have at least got some kind of damage.
Notice that I also mention stacking CH with Life Orb. Since Focus Energy is the option over Protect, you can still attack twice if you choose, but if you can score an Opportunistic Focus Energy (e.g. against a sacrifice), you have that option too.

It's not like I'm calling for a separate set either:

Perhaps mention Focus Energy & Night Slash as an alternative
 
Notice that I also mention stacking CH with Life Orb. Since Focus Energy is the option over Protect, you can still attack twice if you choose, but if you can score an Opportunistic Focus Energy (e.g. against a sacrifice), you have the option too.

It's not like I'm calling for a separate set either.
You are going to use Focus Energy if you predict a switch. I am saying very clearly that if for some reason you are very certain that a switch is coming you are better of attacking then use FE anyday. Protect has its uses and is far more consistent on a Pokemon like Sharpedo.
 

McGrrr

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You are going to use Focus Energy if you predict a switch. I am saying very clearly that if for some reason you are very certain that a switch is coming you are better of attacking then use FE anyday. Protect has its uses and is far more consistent on a Pokemon like Sharpedo.
Any day?

Let's take an arbitrary example... Opponent switches to 1% Smeargle as a sacrifice so that he can switch to something that can survive a non-CH.

Any day?
 
Any day?

Let's take an arbitrary example... Opponent switches to 1% Smeargle as a sacrifice so that he can switch to something that can survive a non-CH.

Any day?
-That is the only instance where you would rather go with that..and even then it is a 1.5x with the crit not to mention its only guaranteed with NS. Why can't the opponent simply bring something that can take those moves and if he has nothing..then chances are you would've swept without it. How can you replace Protect on a Speed Boost Pokemon that is very fragile and creates alot of mindgames, you cant afford to just let it go to waste when you desperately need one safe turn to sweep. Stop picking and choosing rare scenarios when in reality a) that scenario rarely happens b) Only NS will get the 100% CH 3) Protect is WAY more useful and there shouldn't even be a discussion about replacing it with such a situational move such as FE. You cant even provide a solid argument as to why it deserves to be used over protect lol...

1) protect should be the only move because it provides Sharpedo who is suppose to be a sweeper with the much needed 'safe turn' to setup

2)Protect allows you to not be RK by scarfers....

3)Protect allows you to scout opposing moves and stall out certain things (Burnt Pokemon, choiced mon on low pp etc).

To conclude this as i dont want to be wasting my time on this. The scenario which you gave me implies that the opponent will sack Smeargle,then bring something solid to handle Sharpedo. This in turn means that even with a 1.5x boost to its attack...it more than likely won't be getting past that same Pokemon...so you make no sense at all. Stop making pointless arguments for something gimmicky that has barely any value just because you like it.
 

McGrrr

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  1. I know fully well the merits of Protect.
  2. I disagree that it should be the "only" option. You act like Sharpedo has -12414 speed without a boost.
  3. I explained the merits of Focus Energy.
  4. Note again that I'm not suggesting a separate set.
  5. Whenever there is a situation where the difference between 1.5x and 2x doesn't matter, FE is viable.
 

McGrrr

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To conclude this as i dont want to be wasting my time on this. The scenario which you gave me implies that the opponent will sack Smeargle,then bring something solid to handle Sharpedo. This in turn means that even with a 1.5x boost to its attack...it more than likely won't be getting past that same Pokemon...so you make no sense at all. Stop making pointless arguments for something gimmicky that has barely any value just because you like it.
If you're going to make sweeping statements, you better be 100% right or you should be prepared to be wrong. Stop making ad hominems and stay on point.
 

ginganinja

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I am not supporting Focus Energy, since the combination has many flaws

-Firstly, its utterly switch reliant since you MUST use it on a switch or you die. Assuming you can even predict the switch, you have the issue of giving your opponent an utterly free switch to their counter. Lets look at a standard Ferrothorn on 100% health (hardly something id call a solid counter with the dark move buff but the example will do nicely). If you predict it switching in and Focus Energy, Ferrothorn switches in safely, taking next to no damage. You are now in a shitty position, because you got NO damage on Ferrothorn as it came in, your Critical hit doesn't OHKO it and it still OHKOs you back, and you still have to face the nasty possibility of it setting up Spikes / SR / T-Waving / Leech Seeding if you so choose to switch out. Compare this to Crunch, when I could spam it every time I predicted Ferrothorn coming in, and eventually brute force my way past it.

There are other issues, because Focus Energy + Night Slash is strictly inferior to Crunch + Protect, in almost all situations. Sure, you get the opportunity to hit something hard, but in most situations, your counter can still take that hit, and OHKO you back (or at least cripple you). Sure, you can use Night Slash on the switch a couple of times and THEN use Focus Energy, but every time your using Night Slash without Focus Energy backing you up, your doing much less damage than you could be doing with Crunch, so you don't even win out there.

In short, I still don't even know what your pushing for in regards to Night Slash + Focus Energy. Its not getting a straight up slash, since 95% of the time Protect + Crunch is so much more reliable, if not straight up bette. Focus Energy + Night Slash just looks like OO material for me, at BEST, so I really don't see why this is even worth arguing about, since in my experience, the combination is so utterly situational that it doesn't deserve a mention.
 
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alexwolf

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ginganinja said:
O.k so with Focus Energy, im using it on the smeargle switch, and then killing Smeargle. You have no revealed Focus Energy so your opponent brings in something that can outspeed a +1 Sharpedo (generic scarfer). Scarfer outruns and kills you, GG. You cannot rely on your opponent fucking up and bringing in something they know will die to a CH (and most counters off the topic my my head can still take a CH Night Slash at full health anyway) over a scarfer which outruns and kills you. If they lack a scarfer (something I don't see often), as well as a counter that cannot take a CH Night Slash, then yes, your situation comes out ahead, but it remains entirely situational. Protect on the other hand, will let you get to +2 speed against that same scarfer (+3 if you elect not to attack the Smeargle that for some reason we know is switching in therefore making it a much better option.
Sharpedo will outspeed the scarfer as it will be at +2 Speed. Regardless, Focus Energy is incredibly situational and deserves to be OO at best, for the reasons that SUSANO already described.
 

dragonuser

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Lol I am not adding Focus Energy to this

also what are opinions on the primary moveset posted earlier by mcgrr
 

Colonel M

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Actually this needs redoing unless someone can provide evidence of Speed Boost been available because Serebii says it isn't, and as far as I'm aware there's no evidence anywhere to the contrary.
Can anyone even confirm that Speed Boost Sharpedo exists outside of Pokebank? Like Alice said - nothing states it exists.
 
Can anyone even confirm that Speed Boost Sharpedo exists outside of Pokebank? Like Alice said - nothing states it exists.
That's because it doesn't. Just leave it for now for once we transtion into Pokebank analyses in the very near future.
 

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