1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

[COMPLETED] Starmie

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by ShootingStarmie, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    [​IMG]

    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Starmie is one of the best offensive spinners.</li>
    <li>It also has great Speed.</li>
    <li>Starmie's STAB combination is great defensively speaking, allowing it to take on Blaziken and Talonflame.</li>
    <li>Starmie's movepool offers great coverage in moves such as Ice Beam and Thunderbolt.</li>
    <li>Starmie's typing and access to Recover allow it to run a defensive set.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>Starmie faces stiff competition from Excadrill as a spinner.</li>
    <li>Starmie faces more competition as an entry hazard-removal Pokemon than before.</li>
    <li>Starmie's typing leaves it vulnerable to Pursuit, U-turn, and Volt Switch.</li>
    </ul>


    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Starmie @ Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Analytic<br />
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
    - Ice Beam<br />
    - Thunderbolt / Psyshock<br />
    - Rapid Spin</p>

    <p>Starmie was one of the most consistent Pokemon in BW, and for a good reason. It was the best offensive spinner in the tier, as it could 2HKO any spinblocker. Timid Nature is used because Starmie has awesome Speed, while the EVs max Speed and max Special Attack. Life Orb is used to boost all of Starmie's attacks. Hydro Pump is STAB and hits extremely hard on the switch, thanks to the 1.3x boost provided by Analytic. However, Surf is an option for a more consistent STAB attack. Ice Beam provides nice coverage, and alongside Thunderbolt, creates the well-known "BoltBeam" coverage combo, which is only resisted by Magnezone and Mamoswine, both of which are smashed by Hydro Pump. However, Psyshock is a very viable option, as Psyshock is key to get past Mega Venusaur who takes Ice Beam well due to Thick Fat. Finally, Rapid Spin supports the team by removing the opponent's hazards without removing your own hazards unlike Defog.</p>

    <p>Good partners include Pokemon that appreciate the removal of entry hazards. Volcarona has great synergy with Starmie, as Volcarona can easily beat Ferrothorn and Venusaur, some of the best checks to Starmie. Talonflame is 4x weak to Stealth Rocks, so having them removed by Starmie is highly beneficial to it. Talonflame can also easily take on most of Starmie's checks. Galvantula sets up Sticky Web, meaning using Defog support is pretty redundant, so Starmie's Rapid Spin support is crucial. Dragonite and Salamence are extremely threatening at full health, and Starmie can generally take on most Steel-types that wall said Dragon-types. Finally, to boost Starmie's Water-type STAB attacks, Damp Rock Politoed is a great partner.</p>

    <p>Starmie @ Leftovers<br />
    Ability: Natural Cure<br />
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SpA / 224 Spe<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Scald<br />
    - Psyshock / Ice Beam<br />
    - Recover<br />
    - Rapid Spin</p>

    <p>Thanks to Starmie's typing and access to key traits such as Recover and Nature Cure, Starmie can pull off a decent bulky Rapid Spin set. This set is designed to stay around for the majority of the game, as Starmie's typing allows it to check dangerous Water- and Fighting_types. Scald is Starmie's STAB of choice, as it has a nice 30% chance of inflicting a burn, softening the physical blows Starmie might need to tank. Psyshock is boosted by STAB, has a solid Base Power, and is capable of hitting Gengar on the switch; however, Ice Beam is listed to prevent Dragon-and Grass-types from setting up on Starmie. Recover keeps Starmie nice and healthy for the majority of the game, allowing it to continuously Rapid Spin. And finally, Rapid Spin supports the team by clearing the field of hazards.</p>

    <p>This set in generally more geared towards balanced and defensive teams that are in need of a spinner. Good team mates for this set are bulky Fighting-types that take on Starmie's best checks. Breloom has very nice synergy with Starmie, as Breloom easily takes on Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, while Starmie easily beats Skarmory and Forretress. Blaziken also makes for a great partner, because aside from beating Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, Blaziken also beats Venusaur and other bulky Grass-types easily.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Choice Scarf Tyranitar outspeeds and OHKOes Starmie with Pursuit. Weavile naturally outspeeds Starmie and can easily trap it. Greninja resists both of Starmie's STABs and can hit it hard with a STAB U-turn or Dark Pulse. Rotom-W resists Starmie's main attacks, and can hit it with Volt Switch. Aegislash has the defenses to tank a hit from Starmie and easily KO it with Shadow Sneak. Blissey easily takes on all of Starmie's attacks with its immense special bulk. Bulky Grass-types are generally nice checks to Starmie. Ferrothorn sets up hazards on Starmie and can hit it with Power Whip. Trevenant and Gourgeist both block Rapid Spin and resist Starmie's Water-type attacks. Mega Venusaur has Thick Fat to easily take on Starmie's attacks bar Psyshock. Finally, Amoonguss has Regenerator and great special bulk to easily take on Starmie</p>
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    • In the overview, I wouldn't say that Starmie is the best offensive Rapid Spin user (that title goes to Excadrill).
    • In the pros section, you should mention that it has an innate in this metagame (resists the STAB of some potent Pokemon like Blaziken / Talonflame, and its best checks aren't as common / don't exist in the current metagame)
    • Slash Surf after Hydro Pump, and slash Psyshock after Thunderbolt
    • You need to order your EVs. It's HP > Atk > Def > SpA > SpD > Spe
    • Make sure to mention that Politoed w/ Smooth Rock is a good partner
    • I'd remove Scizor from checks & counters. It's kind of a garbage check
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  3. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    • In the overview, I wouldn't say that Starmie is the best offensive Rapid Spin user (that title goes to Excadrill).
    • In the pros section, you should mention that it has an innate in this metagame (resists the STAB of some potent Pokemon like Blaziken / Talonflame, and its best checks aren't as common / don't exist in the current metagame)
    • Slash Surf after Hydro Pump, and slash Psyshock after Thunderbolt
    • You need to order your EVs. It's HP > Atk > Def > SpA > SpD > Spe
    • Make sure to mention that Politoed w/ Smooth Rock is a good partner
    • I'd remove Scizor from checks & counters. It's kind of a garbage check
    Done.

    Edit: While I was at it, I mentioned a few more good team mates.
  4. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  5. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,803
    Greninja is a good check. I'd also stress that Psyshock is key to get past MegaVenusaur who due to Thick Fat takes Ice Beam well.

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  6. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    Added Greninja and mentioned "Psyshock is key to get past MegaVenusaur who due to Thick Fat takes Ice Beam well". I'm gonna start writing this up now.

    Edit: Starmie is ready for it's last check.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  7. Namso

    Namso
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,304
    For the first point, reword this. You're basically saying if the opponent has a Defog user, Starmie is hindered by it somehow. Instead, mention that Starmie just faces more competition as a hazard removal Pokemon than before. Also, in the second point, I would include U-turn here, something that is definitely unfortunate when the opponent capitalizes on it.

    Everything else looks good bar the atrocious grammar, haha.

    QC 3/3
  8. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    Updated. This is ready for GP.
  9. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,362
    amcheck
    additions
    subtractions

    comments
    Show Hide



    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Starmie is one of the best offensive Rapid Sspinners.(AP)</li>
    <li>It also has access to great Speed.</li>
    <li>Starmie's STAB combination is great defensively speaking, allowing it to take on Blaziken and Talonflame.</li>
    <li>Starmie's movepool offers great coverage in moves such as Ice Beam and Thunderbolt.</li>
    <li>Starmie's typing and access to Recover allow Starmie to run a bulky defensive(frail) set.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>With Excadrill in OU, Starmie faces stiff competition from it as a spinner.</li>
    <li>Starmie faces more competition as a hazard removal Pokemon than before.</li>
    <li>Starmie's typing leaves it vulnerable to Pursuit and U-turn.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Starmie @ Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Analytic<br />
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
    - Ice Beam<br />
    - Thunderbolt / Psyshock<br />
    - Rapid Spin<br />

    <p>Starmie was one of the most consistent Pokemon in generation 5, and for a good reason. It's was(pk's check) the best offensive spinner in the tier, as it can could 2HKO any spin(space)blocker. Timid Nature is used because Starmie has awesome sSpeed, while the EVs max Speed and max Special Attack. Life Orb is used to boost all of Starmie's attacks. Hydro Pump is STAB and hits extremely hard on the switch, thanks to the 1.3x boost provided by Analytic. However, Surf is an option for a more consistent STAB attack. Ice Beam provides nice coverage, and Thunderbolt creates the infamous "BoltBeam" coverage combo, which is only resisted by Magnezone and Mamoswine, both of which are smashed by Hydro Pump. However, Psyshock is a very viable option, as Psyshock is key to get past Mega(space)Venusaur who due to Thick Fat takes Ice Beam well due to Thick Fat. Finally, Rapid Spin supports the team by removing hazards without removing your own hazards(unlike defog?).</p>

    <p>Good partners include Pokemon that appreciate the removal of entry hazards. Volcarona has great synergy with Starmie, as Volcarona can easily beat Ferrothorn and Venusaur, some of the best checks to Starmie. Talonflame is x4 weak to Stealth Rocks, so having them removed by Starmie is high beneficial to it. Talonflame can also easily take on most of Starmie's checks. Galvantula sets up Sticky Web, meaning using Defog support is pretty redundant, sp so Starmie's Rapid Spin support is crucial. Dragonite and Salamence become are extremely threatening at 100% full health, and Starmie can generally take on most Steel-(AH)types that wall said Dragon-(AH)types. Finally, to boost Starmie's Water-type STAB attacks, Damp Rock Politoed is a great partner.</p>

    <p>Starmie @ Leftovers<br />
    Ability: Natural Cure<br />
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SpAtk / 224 Spde<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Scald<br />
    - Psyshock / Ice Beam<br />
    - Recover<br />
    - Rapid Spin<br />

    <p>Thanks to Starmie's typing and access to key traits such as Recover(recover isn't a trait?) and Nature Cure, Starmie can pull off a decent bulky Rapid Sspinner set. This set is designed to stay around for the majority of the game, as it's typing allows it to check dangerous Water-(AH) and Fighting-(AH)types. Scald is Starmie's STAB of choice, as it has a nice 30% chance of a burn, softening the physical blows Starmie might need to tank. Psyshock is also STAB, and has solid bBase pPower, as well as along with hitting Gengar on the switch;, however,(AC) Ice Beam is listed to prevent Dragon-(AH) and Grass-(AH)types setting up on you Starmie. Recover keeps Starmie nice and healthy for the majority of the game, allowing it to continuously Rapid Spin. And finally, Rapid Spin supports the team by clearing the field of hazards.</p>

    <p>This set in generally more geared towards balanced and defensive teams who that are in need of a spinner. Good team(space)mates for this set are bulky Fighting-(AH)types that take on Starmie's best checks. Breloom has very nice synergy with Starmie, as Breloom easily takes on Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, while Starmie easily beats Skarmory and Forretress. Blaziken also makes for a great partner, because as well as aside from beating Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, Blaziken also beats Venusaur and other bulky Grass-(AH)types easily.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Choice Scarf Tyranitar outspeeds and OHKO's OHKOes Starmie with Pursuit. Weavile naturally outspeeds Starmie and can easily trap Starmie it. Greninja resists both of Starmie's STABs and can hit Starmie with a STAB U-turn or Dark Pulse. Rotom-W resists Starmie's main attacks, and can hit Starmie with Volt Switch. Aegislash has the defenses to tank a hit from Starmie and easily KO it with Shadow Sneak. Blissey easily takes on any all of Starmie's attacks with it's immense special bulk. Bulky Grass-(AH)types are generally nice checks to Starmie. Ferrothorn sets up hazards on Starmie and can hit it with Power Whip. Trevenant and Gourgeist both block Rapid Spin and resist Starmie's water Water-type attacks. Mega Venusaur has Thick Fat to easily take on Starmie's attack's bar Psyshock. Finally, Amoonguss has Regenerator and great special bulk to easily take on Starmie.<p>
  10. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    829
    Working on top of that check:
    (Kingler) Add Remove Comment
    (Me) Add Remove Comment

    Show Hide

    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Starmie is one of the best offensive Rapid Sspinners.(AP)</li>
    <li>It also has access to (Keep this if you want) great Speed.</li>
    <li>Starmie's STAB combination is great defensively speaking, allowing it to take on Blaziken and Talonflame.</li>
    <li>Starmie's movepool offers great coverage in moves such as Ice Beam and Thunderbolt.</li>
    <li>Starmie's typing and access to Recover allow Starmie it to run a bulky defensive(frail) set.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>With Excadrill in OU, Starmie faces stiff competition from Excadrill as a spinner.</li>
    <li>Starmie faces more competition as a hazard removal Pokemon than before.</li>
    <li>Starmie's typing leaves it vulnerable to Pursuit and U-turn.(AP)</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Starmie @ Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Analytic<br />
    EVs: 252 SAtk SpA / 4 SDef SpD / 252 Spd Spe<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
    - Ice Beam<br />
    - Thunderbolt / Psyshock<br />
    - Rapid Spin<br /></p>

    <p>Starmie was one of the most consistent Pokemon in generation 5 BW, and for a good reason. It's was(pk's check) the best offensive spinner in the tier, as it can could 2HKO any spin(space)blocker. Timid Nature is used because Starmie has awesome sSpeed, while the EVs max Speed and max Special Attack. Life Orb is used to boost all of Starmie's attacks. Hydro Pump is STAB and hits extremely hard on the switch, thanks to the 1.3x boost provided by Analytic. However, Surf is an option for a more consistent STAB attack. Ice Beam provides nice coverage, and alongside Thunderbolt,(AC) creates the infamous well-known (We frown at the use of "infamous") "BoltBeam" coverage combo, which is only resisted by Magnezone and Mamoswine, both of which are smashed by Hydro Pump. However, Psyshock is a very viable option, as Psyshock is key to get past Mega(space)Venusaur who due to Thick Fat takes Ice Beam well due to Thick Fat. Finally, Rapid Spin supports the team by removing the opponent's hazards without removing your own hazards(unlike defog?).</p>

    <p>Good partners include Pokemon that appreciate the removal of entry hazards. Volcarona has great synergy with Starmie, as Volcarona can easily beat Ferrothorn and Venusaur, some of the best checks to Starmie. Talonflame is x4 4x weak to Stealth Rocks, so having them removed by Starmie is highly beneficial to it. Talonflame can also easily take on most of Starmie's checks. Galvantula sets up Sticky Web, meaning using Defog support is pretty redundant, sp so Starmie's Rapid Spin support is crucial. Dragonite and Salamence become are extremely threatening at 100% full health, and Starmie can generally take on most Steel-(AH)types that wall said Dragon-(AH)types. Finally, to boost Starmie's Water-type STAB attacks, Damp Rock Politoed is a great partner.</p>

    <p>Starmie @ Leftovers<br />
    Ability: Natural Cure<br />
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SpAtk / 224 Spde<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Scald<br />
    - Psyshock / Ice Beam<br />
    - Recover<br />
    - Rapid Spin<br /> </p>

    <p>Thanks to Starmie's typing and access to key traits such as Recover(recover isn't a trait?) (It's a trait to have it though) and Nature Cure, Starmie can pull off a decent bulky Rapid Sspinner set (Use this instead: "...pull off a decent bulky Rapid Spin set"). This set is designed to stay around for the majority of the game, as it's Starmie's typing allows it to check dangerous Water-(AH) and Fighting-(AH)types. Scald is Starmie's STAB of choice, as it has a nice 30% chance of inflicting a burn, softening the physical blows Starmie might need to tank. Psyshock is also STAB, and has a solid bBase pPower, as well as along with hitting Gengar on the switch (Use this instead: "Psyshock is boosted by STAB, has a solid Base Power, and is capable of hitting Gengar on the switch");, (semi) however,(AC) Ice Beam is listed to prevent Dragon-(AH) and Grass-(AH)types from setting up on you Starmie. Recover keeps Starmie nice and healthy for the majority of the game, allowing it to continuously Rapid Spin. And finally, Rapid Spin supports the team by clearing the field of hazards.</p>

    <p>This set in generally more geared towards balanced and defensive teams who that are in need of a spinner. Good team(space)mates for this set are bulky Fighting-(AH)types that take on Starmie's best checks. Breloom has very nice synergy with Starmie, as Breloom easily takes on Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, while Starmie easily beats Skarmory and Forretress. Blaziken also makes for a great partner, because as well as aside from beating Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, Blaziken also beats Venusaur and other bulky Grass-(AH)types easily.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Choice Scarf Tyranitar outspeeds and OHKO's OHKOes Starmie with Pursuit. Weavile naturally outspeeds Starmie and can easily trap Starmie it. Greninja resists both of Starmie's STABs and can hit Starmie it hard with a STAB U-turn or Dark Pulse. Rotom-W resists Starmie's main attacks, and can hit Starmie it with Volt Switch. Aegislash has the defenses to tank a hit from Starmie and easily KO it with Shadow Sneak. Blissey easily takes on any all of Starmie's attacks with it's its immense special bulk. Bulky Grass-(AH)types are generally nice checks to Starmie. Ferrothorn sets up hazards on Starmie and can hit it with Power Whip. Trevenant and Gourgeist both block Rapid Spin and resist Starmie's water Water-type attacks. Mega Venusaur has Thick Fat to easily take on Starmie's attack's attacks bar Psyshock. Finally, Amoonguss has Regenerator and great special bulk to easily take on Starmie</p>


    Hopefully that wasn't too confusing ;_; Great job to both ShootingStarmie and Kingler12345 :)

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 1/1
  11. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    Thanks for your checks Kingler and Rohail. I'll start editing OP now

    Edit: Done
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  12. Namso

    Namso
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,304
    Hey sorry, I forgot that Starmie is also weak to Volt Switch, so tag that in along with U-turn and Pursuit.
  13. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    added Volt Switch
  14. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are here
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    <li>Starmie faces more competition as an entry hazard-removal Pokemon than before.</li>
  15. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    added, thanks gato
  16. Sixsmith

    Sixsmith

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Is analytic obtainable pre-bank? I was under the impression it wasn't.
  17. The Great Gastly

    The Great Gastly

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    183
    It's not, as far as I know. :\
  18. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,338
    By the way, remove mentions of Blaziken in here for it is banished in the depths of Eo Ut Mortus's vagi-

    I mean in Ubers.

    Also keep Natural Cure slashed on the first set. Natural Cure may not be used often, but it can save you in pinches such as paralysis. It can help keep Starmie alive a little longer sometimes; especially when it Rapid Spins away Toxic Spikes.
  19. False Sense

    False Sense

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    407
    I think Natural Cure is actually the best option right now as Analytic seems to be unavailable at the moment, as far as I know.
    Rukario-kun likes this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)