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[COMPLETED] Trevenant

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by alexwolf, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    [​IMG]

    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>It has a great defensive typing.</li>
    <li>It has decent defensive stats and reliable recovery, which makes it a great spinblocker.</li>
    <li>It has a respectable Attack stat.</li>
    <li>It has access to Will-O-Wisp.</li>
    <li>It has two great abilities, Natural Cure and Harvest.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>It is slow.</li>
    <li>Its bulk is lacking for a defensive Pokemon, which when coupled with its plethora of weaknesses makes it easy to take down.</li>
    <li>It is Pursuit weak.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: Physically Defensive<br />
    move 1: Horn Leech / Wood Hammer<br />
    move 2: Rock Slide / Earthquake<br />
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp<br />
    move 4: Rest<br />
    ability: Natural Cure / Harvest<br />
    item: Leftovers / Lum Berry<br />
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe<br />
    nature: Impish</p>

    <p>This set makes a great switch-in to Water-types such as Rotom-W, Gyarados, and Tentacruel, Ground-types such as Excadrill, Hippowdon, and Diggersby, and the omni-present Mega Kangaskhan. Thanks to its ability to heal off status and its Ghost typing, it doesn't mind status moves from the aforementioned Pokemon and spinblocks Excadrill. Horn Leech is the preferred STAB move because of its healing ability, but Wood Hammer has some nice perks, such as 2HKOing a burned Hippowdon, dealing 66.29 - 78.45% to 252 HP Mega Blastoise, and 2HKOing 252 HP Florges. 2HKOing Florges and burned Hippowdon is useful because otherwise they could switch into Trevenant relatively easy and provide support for their team (sandstorm, Wish, or Aromatherapy), and dealing as much damage as possible to Mega Blastoise is useful to hopefully prevent it from spinning if it gets past Trevenant. Rock Slide OHKOes standard Talonflame 37.5% of the time, Charizard and Mega Charizard Y 81.25% of the time, and always OHKOes offensive Volcarona, while Earthquake 2HKOes Mega Charizard X 90.63% of the time and always 2HKOes Mega Gengar, all Pokemon which could otherwise switch easily into Trevenant. Will-O-Wisp patches up Trevenant's weak physical side and neuters physical attackers that Trevenant checks, such as Excadrill and Breloom.</p>

    <p>The combination of Lum Berry and Harvest allows Trevenant to heal and cure status without the need to switch out, but Natural Cure is more reliable as it always works when you want it to and the extra recovery from Leftovers is huge for a defensive Pokemon. The EV spread makes Trevenant fast enough to outspeed Choice Band Scizor and specially defensive Tyranitar and burn them before they can hurt Trevenant with Pursuit, Crunch, or U-turn. The rest of the EVs are thrown into HP and Defense to tank hits from Excadrill better. Specially defensive Tyranitar and Rotom-W are good teammates as they can take care of most Fire-types that Trevenant struggles with. Tyranitar also provides Stealth Rock which Trevenant can help keep on the field. Spikes or Toxic Spikes users are appreciated as well, due to Trevenant's ability to force a lot of switches and act as a good spinblocker. Tentacruel and Greninja have good defensive synergy with Trevenant and provide Toxic Spikes and Spikes.</p>

    <p>name: SubSeed<br />
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp<br />
    move 2: Leech Seed<br />
    move 3: Substitute<br />
    move 4: Phantom Force<br />
    ability: Harvest<br />
    item: Sitrus Berry<br />
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe<br />
    nature: Impish</p>

    <p>With the combination of Will-O-Wisp, Leech Seed, and Substitute, Trevenant can slowly KO any Pokemon that can't deal 75% damage or more to it, provided it gets a free turn to set up a Substitute. If the opponent brings in a physical attacker, use Will-O-Wisp; otherwise Leech Seed is the way to go. From there, Trevenant can start spamming Substitute while staying healthy thanks to Sitrus Berry and Leech Seed. If a Sitrus Berry is not created by Harvest at the end of the turn, use Phantom Force the next turn, to stall for two extra turns, giving you a 75% chance of getting at least one Sitrus Berry back.</p>

    <p>The EV spread uses enough Speed investment to outspeed uninvested Scizor and Tyranitar in order to burn them before they can attack Trevenant. The rest of the EVs are thrown into HP and Defense to tank hits from Excadrill better. Toxic Spikes support is very beneficial to speed up the process of stalling out special attackers and also allows Trevenant to stall to death grounded Fire-types. Greninja and Tentacruel are good partners for this job and have good defensive synergy with Trevenant. Lastly, Tyranitar and Rotom-W can help Trevenant by dealing with the Fire-types it fears.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Fire-types are the best way to deal with Trevenant. Volcarona, Talonflame, and Charizard have little to fear other than Rock Slide and can OHKO Trevenant in return. Strong special attackers that can OHKO Trevenant or deal 75% or more damage to it and don't care about Grass-type attacks are also good checks. Such Pokemon are Gengar, Hydreigon, Togekiss, Goodra, and Aegislash. Fast Pursuit users such as Absol and Choice Scarf Tyranitar can put Trevenant into a 50-50 situation, OHKOing it if they predict correctly. Furthermore, Mega Absol switches into Trevenant relatively easy if it has already Mega Evolved, bouncing back Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp, and checkmates Trevenant with Pursuit while Mega Absol is only 2HKOed by Trevenant's attacks. Finally, while Skarmory detests burns in general, it walls Trevenant and can avoid getting stalled to death thanks to Roost, while setting up Spikes and phazing Trevenant when it's finished.</p>
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    I would be the first person to hype up Harvest, but with sunlight being restricted to 5//7 turns, is it really that feasible to have a set on it. Like, couldn't I simply stall out sunlight for 5 turns, and then break your harvest combo?

    I guess im wondering if its reliable enough to be a set, as it looks cool but im unsure how well it works in practise.
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah ginga, i can assure you that this set is a great staller and not having a guaranteed Sitrus Berry is not an issue as you can stall with Phantom Force for more turns.

    This is ready for QC checks!
  4. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    You only have 452 EVs on each set, so I recommend the SpD investment be bumped up to 136 EVs. Also, I'm guessing your Spe EVs are designed to outpace base 70s with just the leftover 4 EVs in Spe? I'm not sure if that's considered speed creeping, but if not, then I guess it's fine. Otherwise you could just toss 4 EVs over to SpD, but that'd be up to QC to decide.

    Looks pretty solid, though. LumRest + Harvest Trevenant is really good.
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED 1/3
  6. Kavatika

    Kavatika is wary

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    EDIT: OP was updated with earlier mentions
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  7. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA Fuck Ass Noob
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  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    One last check pls.
  9. Garchompi

    Garchompi Banned deucer.

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    Wait, no Curse set? That's Trevenant's most unique niche and can completely dismantle entire stall teamsby itself and even balanced ones with Sticky Web support.

    I have never used the Curse set myself, but I've faced it few times and it was almost as infuriating as Gen 4 TormenTran.
    I think it was something like this...

    Trevanant @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Harvest
    (not sure about EVs and nature)
    -Curse
    -Substitute/Protect
    -Leech Seed
    -Will-o-Wisp


    Before you dismiss it as a gimmick because of "lol, ghost Curse", try it out and see for yourself how devastating it is.
    ChrisTehAwesome likes this.
  10. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    Looks good

    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED 3/3
  11. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
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    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>It has a great defensive typing.</li>
    <li>It has decent defensive stats and reliable recovery, which makes him it a great spinblocker.</li>
    <li>It has a respectable Attack stat.</li>
    <li>It has access to Will-O-Wisp.</li>
    <li>It has two great abilities, Natural Cure and Harvest.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>It is slow.</li>
    <li>It'(remove apostrophe)s bulk is lacking for a defensive Pokemon, which when coupled with its plethora of weaknesses makes it easy to take down.</li>
    <li>It is Pursuit weak.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Trevenant @ Leftovers / Lum Berry<br />
    Ability: Natural Cure / Harvest<br />
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpD / 116 Spe<br />
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)<br />
    - Horn Leech / Wood Hammer<br />
    - Rock Slide / Earthquake<br />
    - Will-O-Wisp<br />
    - Rest</p>

    <p>This set makes a great switch-in to Water-types such as Starmie, Rotom-W, and Tentacruel. Thanks to its ability to heal off status and its Ghost typing, it doesn't mind about status moves from the aforementioned Pokemon and spinblocks Starmie. Trevenant can also check Excadrill on a whim, but it must avoid switching into Shadow Claw or Swords Dance. Horn Leech is the preferred STAB move because of its healing ability, but Wood Hammer has some nice perks, such as 2HKOing a burned Hippowdon, dealing 66.29 - 78.45% to 252 HP Mega Blastoise, and 2HKOing 252 HP Florges. 2HKOing burned Hippowdon and Florges is useful because otherwise they could switch into you Trevenant relatively easy and provide support for their team (sandstorm, Wish, or Aromatherapy),(AC) and dealing as much damage as possible to Mega Blastoise is useful to hopefully prevent it from spinning if it gets past Trevenant. Rock Slide OHKOes standard Talonflame 37.5% of the time, Charizard and Mega Charizard Y 81.25% of the time, and always OHKOes offensive Volcarona, while Earthquake 2HKOes Mega Charizard X 90.63% of the time and always 2HKOes Blaziken and Mega Gengar, all Pokemon which could otherwise switch easily into Trevenant. Will-O-Wisp patches up Trevenant's weak physical side and neuters physical attackers that Trevenant checks, such as Excadrill and Breloom.</p>

    <p>Lum Berry with Harvest allows(add s) Trevenant to heal without the need to switch out immediately and cure status immediately, but Natural Cure is more reliable as it always works when you want it to and the extra recovery from Leftovers is huge for a defensive Pokemon. The EV spread makes Trevenant fast enough to outspeed Skarmory, Choice Band Scizor, and specially defensive Tyranitar and burn them before they can hurt Trevenant with Brave Bird, Pursuit, Crunch, or U-turn. Specially defensive Tyranitar and Rotom-W are good teammates as they can take care of most Fire-types that Trevenant struggles with. Tyranitar also provides Stealth Rock which Trevenant can help keep on the field. Spikes or Toxic Spikes users are appreciated as well, due to Trevenant's ability to force a lot of switches and act as a good spinblocker. Tentacruel and Greninja have good defensive synergy with Trevenant and provide Toxic Spikes and Spikes, respectively.</p>

    <p>Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry<br />
    Ability: Harvest<br />
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpD / 116 Spe<br />
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)<br />
    - Will-O-Wisp<br />
    - Leech Seed<br />
    - Substitute<br />
    - Phantom Force</p>

    <p>With the combination of Will-O-Wisp, Leech Seed, and Substitute,(AC) Trevenant can slowly KO any Pokemon that can't deal 75% damage or more to it, provided it gets a free turn to set up a Substitute. If the opponent brought brings in a physical attacker, use Will-O-Wisp,;(semicolon) otherwise Leech Seed is the way to go. From there, Trevenant starts can start spamming Substitute while staying healthy thanks to Sitrus Berry and Leech Seed. If a Sitrus Berry is not created by Harvest at the end of the turn, use Phantom Force the next turn, to stall for two extra turns, giving you a 75% chance of getting at least one Sitrus Berry back.</p>

    <p>The EV spread serves the same purpose with the first set, outspeeding runs enough Speed investment to outspeed (while this is just the preview, i think we should still avoid mentioning other specific sets in case they change; reword it however you like) Skarmory, Scizor, and Tyranitar in order to burn them before they can attack Trevenant. Toxic Spikes support is very beneficial to speed up the process of stalling out special attackers and also allows Trevenant to stall to death grounded Fire-types. Greninja and Tentacruel are good partners for this job and have good defensive synergy with Trevenant. Lastly, Tyranitar and Rotom-W can help Trevenant by dealing with the Fire-types it fears.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Fire-types are the best way to deal with Trevenant. Blaziken, Volcarona, Talonflame, and Charizard have little to fear other than Rock Slide and Earthquake and can OHKO back Trevenant in return. Strong special attackers that can OHKO Trevenant or deal 75% or more damage to it and don't care about Grass-type attacks are also good checks. Such Pokemon are Gengar, Hydreigon, Togekiss, Goodra, and Aegislash. Fast Pursuit users such as Absol and Choice Scarf Tyranitar can put Trevenant into a 50-50 situation, OHKOing it if they predict correctly. Furthermore, Mega Absol switches into Trevenant relatively easy if it has already Mega Evolved, bouncing back Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp, and checkmates Trevenant with Pursuit while Mega Absol is only 2HKOed by Trevenant's attacks. Finally, while Skarmory detests burns in general, it walls Trevenant and can avoid getting stalled to death thanks to Roost, while setting up Spikes and phazing Trevenant when it's finished.</p>



    nice job, gp 1/2
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Thx Pikachuu, added everything except from this:

    I didn't add the word respectively because Greninja gets both Spikes and Toxic Spikes.

    Oh interesting, i will try it out and if it works i will slash it with Phantom Force on the second set.
  13. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Tested Curse and it's bad. Losing half of your life for something that can be healed just by switching out is not worth it. Not to mention that you rarely get to use it as you will spend most of the time trying to use Leech Seed, WoW, or Substitute.
  14. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    'lacking bulk'; this thing is honestly pretty frail. it can't take a neutral hit for its life, and many moves it resists do shitloads
  15. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    take out blaziken
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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  17. nyczxjay

    nyczxjay
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    Can someone explain to me why the standard Trevanent is Careful (252 HP/ 140 SpD/ 116 Spe)? I've tried it but I've found Impish (252 HP/ 140 Def/ 116 Spe) to be more useful since it allows you to switch in better against Excadrill to spin block (which is largely the reason why I even use this thing).
  18. Private Affair

    Private Affair

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    252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 103-122 (27.54 - 32.62%) -- possible 4HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 135-160 (36.09 - 42.78%) -- 97.46% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Aegislash Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 138-164 (36.89 - 43.85%) -- 99.78% chance to 3HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 252-297 (67.37 - 79.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    etc.

    Anyway, I would like to propose this set that I have found quite nice
    Trevanant @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Harvest
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
    Impish Nature
    ~ Will-O-Wisp
    ~ Leech Seed / Horn Leech
    ~ Shadow Claw
    ~ Rest

    I've found some success in this set and would like to know what you guys thought about it.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I focused on Special Defense to deal with offensive Starmie but this thing is not that common and dealing with Excadrill seems more important. I am open to new spreads, though 252 HP / 252 Def seems to be the best option for now.
  20. nyczxjay

    nyczxjay
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    I think the EV spread depends on what you want to outspeed.

    248 HP/ 144 Def/ 116 Spe - allows you to outspeed Skarmory which is pretty useful.
    248 HP/ 180 Def/ 80 Spe - allows you to outspeed Scizor and Vaporeon allowing you to burn them and in the case of Vaporeon, it allows you to hit it with Horn Leech before it can hit you with Ice Beam or something.
    248 HP/ 216 Def/ 44 Spe - allows you to outspeed Careful Tyranitar which I believe should be the bare minimum speed you should aim for.

    Also, I just like having an odd HP stat but you can obviously just max out HP if preferred.
  21. Namso

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    I would go with 80 Speed. Outpacing Skarmory isn't necessary because you can't touch it in the first place. All you can do is go for the Will-O-Wisp while it does unthreatening Brave Bird damage, and if you run Earthquake, you can hit it super effectively as it Roosts.
    tab likes this.
  22. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    The fastest I would also go is to beat Scizor to the punch before it can U-turn. At least defensive sets, anyway. Being able to Will-O-Wisp it on the switch helps out Trevenant and co.

    Also agreeing with more Def. If Starmie were more common as a spinner I would say otherwise, but being able to block that OHKO at all costs seems necessary. I think the max to run is 80 Speed with the first set as well. Definitely keep the Careful spread with 80 Speed EVs as a listed option if the threat of Starmie as a spinner seems more apparent than Excadrill.

    Also really funny how Trevenant and Jellicent handle both Thunderbolt and Ice Beam versions of Starmie if they wanted to, lol.
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    252 HP/ 132 Def / 124 Spe

    This is the most useful EV spread. You need to outspeed CB Scizor before it KOes you with Pursuit, and the same goes for Mega Support Ttar as well. Outspeeding Skarmory is just an added bonus.
  24. nyczxjay

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    I would have to disagree. Mega Support Ttar isn't all too common from my experience, and to put in so much speed just to outspeed 1 pokemon that may not even be on the opposing team (since MegTtar takes up your mega slot) doesn't seem worth it. I think that outspeeding CB Scizor should be sufficient. So the EV spread of 252 HP/ 176 Def/ 80 Spe (gives you 168 Speed, so you could drop 4 EVs to hit 167 to outspeed Scizor by 1 point) is the most useful IMO.

    The added bulk is also useful for taking on things like Mega Gyarados by taking a +1 Stone Edge or Ice Fang and retaliating with Horn Leech.
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah, you are right, going with your spread.

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