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[COMPLETED] Venusaur

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by Hypercut, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    [​IMG]

    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Venusaur has decent Special Attack and Speed stats.</li>
    <li>Chlorophyll doubles its Speed in harsh sunlight.</li>
    <li>It's immune to Toxic Spikes and powder moves such as Spore.</li>
    <li>When it Mega Evolves, its Defense and Special Defense stats rise.</li>
    <li>Thick Fat makes Venusaur neutral against Fire- and Ice-type moves that it would otherwise have been weak to.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]
    <ul>
    <li>Psychic-type Pokemon such as Alakazam destroy it.</li>
    <li>Talonflame OHKOes it with Brave Bird. Priority moves such as Bullet Punch and Ice Shard hit it hard. </li>
    <li>Losing Chlorophyll when it Mega Evolves means that Venusaur gets outsped by lots of Pokemon.</li>
    <li>The nerf to Drought means that sweeping teams becomes a lot harder.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Name: Chlorophyll does better!
    Move 1: Sunny Day / Growth
    Move 2: Giga Drain
    Move 3: Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    Move 4: Hidden Power Fire
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Item: Life Orb / Black Sludge
    Evs: 42 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
    Nature: Modest</p>

    <p>With the nerf to Drought, Sunny Day has become a must for Venusaur, as it acts like a backup to Ninetales's Drought. Growth is an alternative to Sunny Day and while it is a mediocre boosting move when the sun is not active, it otherwise grants it a +2 boost in both its attacking stats. A Modest nature is used to maximize its damage output, and the investment in Speed alongside Chlorophyll allows it to outrun Scarf Jolly Garchomp. Life Orb powers up all of Venusaur's moves, allowing it to potentially sweep the entire opposing team. Giga Drain is the main STAB, hitting almost every Water-, Ground-, and Rock-type Pokemon for super effective damage, allowing Venusaur to regain some of its HP and mitigate Life Orb's recoil. Sludge Bomb is super effective against Fairy-type Pokemon, and after a Growth, it lets Venusaur threaten even specially defensive Fairy-type Pokemon such as Florges and Sylveon. Alternatively, Sleep Powder can be used in order to incapacitate an opposing Pokemon and give Venusaur opportunities to set up; after which it can deal serious damage to the opposing team. Hidden Power Fire hits Steel-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Aegislash hard.</p>

    <p>Because its ability relies on the sun, Ninetales and Mega Charizard Y are obvious partners for Venusaur. Dugtrio and Xatu are also partners that Venusaur appreciates, as the former traps and OHKOes Tyranitar, whereas the latter reflects entry hazards, which are a huge problem for sun teams.</p>

    <p>Name: Physically-based Tank
    Move 1: Giga Drain / Power Whip
    Move 2: Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    Move 3: Earthquake
    Move 4: Synthesis
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Item: Venusaurite
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Nature: Relaxed</p>

    <p>Venusaur loses Chlorophyll when it Mega Evolves, and instead gains better bulk and a great defensive ability. It requires a massive Defense investment to deal with Mega Lucario, barely avoiding the OHKO from a +2 Adaptability Close Combat. With its bulk, it is also a solid check against rain teams and majority of bulky Water-type Pokemon. Giga Drain is a better option for a STAB move as its power is not affected by burns. However, Power Whip can be used in its place as it is a stronger STAB move and deals more damage to bulky Water-type Pokemon. Sludge Bomb hits both Grass- and Fairy-type Pokemon hard, but if these Pokemon can be dealt with by its teammates, Venusaur can run Sleep Powder in order to cripple a Pokemon for the rest of the match instead. With Earthquake, it can deal with powerful sweepers such as Mega Lucario, Aegislash, and Excadrill, and it can also do good damage to Fire-type Pokemon. Synthesis provides Venusaur reliable recovery, allowing it to regain some of its HP.</p>

    <p>As Fire- and Flying-type Pokemon are problematic for Venusaur, Rotom-W is a good partner. It checks Talonflame, who woulds otherwise threaten Brave Bird; forces out Skarmory, a great counter to this set; and threatens unboosted Volcarona. Steel-type Pokemon are also problematic, so Greninja is a good partner, as it has Protean which gives it STAB on Hidden Power Fire, allowing it to deal with them. Venusaur works well with Blaziken and Greninja, as they can cover each other's weaknesses and form a Fire / Water / Grass core.</p>

    <p>Name: Specially-based Tank
    Move 1: Giga Drain / Leech Seed
    Move 2: Sludge Bomb
    Move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    Move 4: Synthesis / Protect
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Item: Venusaurite
    Evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    Nature: Relaxed</p>

    <p>In this set, Venusaur trades its substantial bulk, and instead relies on its natural defenses to give it room to take a more offensive role; it can switch in, soak up a specially based attack, and hit back hard. It serves also as a solid check to Water-types while having a respectable offensive presence.</p>

    <p>Just like the previous set, Fire- and Flying-type Pokemon are problematic for Venusaur, so Rotom-W is a good partner. It checks Talonflame, being able to deal with the Pokemon listed above. Similarly, anything that can deal with Steel-types or can synergize with Venusaur's resistances can make for useful partners; Blaziken and Greninja again come to mind.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>When Venusaur is in its base form, it is heavily weather-reliant, so the most effective way to counter it is to change the weather. When the sun is not up, powerful attackers such as Salamence, Dragonite, Starmie, and Chandelure can outspeed and eliminate it. Psychic-type Pokemon such as Alakazam can easily OHKO it. Talonflame has priority Brave Bird, which Venusaur cannot deal with. Volcarona and Hawlucha can easily OHKO it with their STAB move of choice. Priority moves such as Ice Shard or Bullet Punch threaten Venusaur, but Venusaur is rather bulky, so it will not be KOed by them unless it has taken prior damage. If Venusaur lacks Hidden Power Fire, Skarmory and Ferrothorn counter it, proceeding to set up Spikes. Skarmory has access to Brave Bird to hit it back with as well. When Venusaur Mega Evolves, it loses Chlorophyll, allowing a lot of Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Gothitelle, Charizard, Hawlucha, and Garchomp to outspeed and hit it hard or outright KO it. Grass-type Pokemon and Pokemon with Safety Goggles aren't affected Venusaur's Sleep Powder, making them great checks.</p>
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  2. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Any advice?
  3. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    You spelled Chlorophyll incorrectly in pros. Also, IIRC, it's outsped.

    I don't necessarily agree with your priority comment. Remember that Venusaur resists Aqua Jet, Vacuum Wave, and Mach Punch. It only suffers from Ice Shard (rareish) and Aerialate Quick Attack (M-Pinsir only). SubSeed needs less slashitis.

    Finally, mention Grass-types and Weather Goggles make Pokemon immune to powder moves. And mention Toxic is nearly unblockable too.
  4. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Thanks a lot Colonel M, i've edited first post.
  5. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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  6. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Mega Venusaur's ability is Thick Fat, not Chlorophyll. You say that in the comments, but the actual sets still have Chlorophyll.

    EDIT: Unless I'm just really stupid and am missing the whole "input into simulators" part, in which case disregard this.
  7. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    Seth, I believe by that he means select a regular Venusaur with Chlorophyll as when it mega evolves it will get Thick Fat regardless and you may as well get the doubled Speed when you're not mega evolving.
  8. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Venusaur has Overgrow/Chlorophyll until he megaevolve, so its right.
    Any advices for the sets?
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Get rid of any SubSeed set, it's not viable. Chlorophyll SubSeed was viable last gen because of perma-sun, but it has no use now with 6 turns of Sun at most. The first set of Mega Venusaur should be:

    <p>Venusaur @ Venusaurite<br />
    Ability: Thick Fat<br />
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA<br />
    Relaxed Nature<br />
    - Giga Drain / Power Whip<br />
    - Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder / Stun Spore<br />
    - Earthquake<br />
    - Synthesis</p>

    You need all this Defense investment to fare as well as possible against Mega Lucario, which even has a small chance of failing at 2HKOing with Close Combat at +2. Giga Drain is better because it's not affected by burns, but if you have something else to switch into bulky water-types or cleric support then Power Whip is the strongest option. Sludge Bomb hits hard Grass- and Fairy-types but if this is not important you are free to use a status move of your choice. Earthquake allows Venusaur to 2HKO Mega Lucario and has a good chance to OHKO it at -1 Defense with a layer of Spikes. Synthesis is reliable recovery, which Venusaur needs to do its job as physical wall/tank.

    You only need one Pros and Cons section btw.
    Princess Bubblegum and DTC like this.
  10. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Edited the analysis with Alexwolf's advices to Mega Venusaur's set, erased the second Pros and Cons section, fixed the entire analysis.
    Thanks a lot ^^
    Advices for the second and third set of Mega Venusaur?
  11. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Sorry for the bump but Giga Drain is only compatible with Venusaur via old TMs or Move Tutors, so that needs to be removed.
  12. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Ohhh..that sucks lol
    Ok, so I have to put Energy Ball instead..
    Fixed, thanks Swamp-Rocket!
  13. Tharok02

    Tharok02

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    You can catch a sunkern in the friend safari and breed that with an ivysaur to get Giga Drain. So it is obtainable in X and Y.
  14. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Giga Drain isn't an egg move unless something has changed...
  15. Tharok02

    Tharok02

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    This is how I got Giga Drain on my Venasaur. I probably should of mentioned that. If someone else wants to confirm it that would help.
  16. Spirit

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    Yeah, I'm gonna confirm that Venusaur does in fact receive Giga Drain as an egg move. It was an egg move last generation too, but the reason why Venusaur couldn't use Giga Drain in BW1 was because only male DW starters were released at the time; males could not pass DW abilities in gen 5. Long story short, with a bit of grunt work it is possible to have a Giga Drain Venusaur with Chlorophyll through breading.

    As for the sets themselves, I'd recommend finding a different spread for the current Chlorophyll sweeper set because Latios isn't available yet and thus it defeats the whole purpose of running that spread (i.e. speed). I'd also slash Giga Drain with Energy Ball because it helps keep Venusaur alive longer. Also Sunny Day > Growth; Sunny Day deserves the primary slash. You just don't have the time to set up anymore and Venusaur's balanced combination of bulk, speed, and power makes it an ideal offensive supporter for sun teams. You could also scrap the last Mega Venusaur set. The only sets Mega Saur should be using are physically defensive and special tank. The last set doesn't really accomplish anything noteworthy.

    So I wrote the Venusaur analysis in fifth gen and I kinda feel the need to comment here, so even though I'm not QC, excuse me for being a little nit-picky, haha.

    Talonflame is a key threat to mention here, the current sweeper spread makes sure that neither Mamoswine nor Scizor can KO at full health. Talonflame is a HUGE threat because it resists Venusaur's STAB and will always OHKO with priority Brave Bird. It needs to be mentioned above these two.

    That's not really the purpose of Sunny Day Venusaur. It's supposed to act as a backup to Ninetales, this sentence implies that it allows it to be independent of it, which should not be the case.

    Chandelure isn't very relevant in this meta and Heatran isn't available yet. Earthquake is more or less pointless, it's best to remove it.

    You mention Giga Drain on more than one occasion and yet it's not slashed anywhere. You need to fix that.

    Include specific partners here, otherwise this doesn't really tell the reader much of anything. Specific KOs that hazards help give Venusaur would be great too.

    These don't tell the reader anything... You actually need to explain the purpose of the set(s) and what it provides for Venusaur's team. The special tank set for example lets Venusaur come in, soak up an attack, and hit back hard. It serves as a solid check to Water-types while being able to pack a respectable offensive presence. The physically defensive spread is used more to check Fighting-types, rain teams, and very threatening setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Azumarill. Mention what the physically defensive spread actually beats rather than saying "this is more bulky than regular Venusaur and takes hits". This analysis needs quite a bit of work and most of the comments are superficial at best. Come on dude, fix it. =/
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  17. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    I had removed Giga Drain because Rocket said that Giga Drain was unavaiable in 6th gen, and i haven't any way to test it in the game, but now that thing was corrected, so i'm going to edit. What spread you suggest while Latios is not released?


    I know, but these days I was busy with other analysis lol. I'm going to edit.
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Add everything that Icecream mentioned and then i think this will be ready for stamps.
  19. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Yeah, i'm going to edit. Thanks Icecream for advices.
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    ¬Itachi you are not supposed to write this up until you get the first 2 stamps so please revert it to skeleton form.
  21. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    I always forget this lol, editing.
  22. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Fixed, sorry for double posting.
  23. BKC

    BKC <&gr8astard> thrash metal! woo
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    ok, approved
  24. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Thanks man ^^
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Add teammates.

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