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Conkeldurr (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by The3DOstrich, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    [​IMG]
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    Original Thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80149
    Conkeldurr (Roobushin) (QC approved 2/2)- By Colonel M

    Pokedex: Conkeldurr (Roobushin)

    Status: Done!

    QC Approval (as per original thread):
    1) Great Sage
    2) Bloo

    GP Checks:
    1) Fatecrashers
    2) jc104
    ------------------------------------------

    [Overview]
    <p>Conkeldurr shows what it takes to be an offensive powerhouse when Speed isn't your strongest suit. Its 140 base Attack means that every hit from Conkeldurr is going to hurt, and with Guts as an ability, burning Conkeldurr will only lead to more destruction. Those stone slabs Conkeldurr holds aren't for show either, as Conkeldurr is just as durable as they are, if not more. While base 65 Special Defense may not seem like much, it's backed by 105 base HP and 95 base Defense. Conkeldurr lacks Close Combat, but holds two attacks that many bulky Fighting-types would beg to have, namely Mach Punch and Drain Punch. Conkeldurr is just one of the main reasons you should have a Fighting-type resistance on your team.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Mach Punch
    move 4: Payback / Stone Edge
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Brave / Adamant
    evs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>624 Attack and 339 Defense after a Bulk Up is nothing to screw around with, and Conkeldurr shows why. Drain Punch allows Conkeldurr to tank through the opposition by hitting the opponent hard while recovering lost health. Mach Punch gives Conkeldurr utility in revenge killing threats such as Lucario and Excadrill, bypassing its Speed issue. The combination of these two attacks and Bulk Up makes Conkeldurr a formidable threat once the opposition no longer holds a good Fighting-type resistance. Guts is icing on the cake since status effects such as burn and paralysis only make Conkeldurr stronger. Just to show how much of a monster Conkeldurr becomes with Guts activated, its +1 Drain Punch OHKOes min HP / min Def Garchomp and is inches away from 2HKOing max HP / max Def Hippowdon. The final move is your choice: you can either shut down Ghost-types with a slow Payback, or prevent Flying-types from wrecking your sweep with an explosive Stone Edge. Payback is usually the preferred move though, as it will allow Conkeldurr to set up on Ghost-types such as Dusknoir. Also, since these Ghost-types often carry Will-O-Wisp, Conkeldurr can frequently receive an Attack boost from Guts.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>There are a lot of ways to EV Conkeldurr. When using Payback, a Brave nature with a 0 Speed IV is recommended as this will allow Conkeldurr to use Payback at maximum power against most of its opponents, although this will also mean that Wobbuffet can outspeed and Encore Conkeldurr. An Adamant nature can be used with Stone Edge since the Speed drop is unnecessary. The current EV spread mimics Machamp's durability to an extent, trading slightly inferior Special Defense for superior Defense. If you want more specific EVs, a spread of 68 HP / 224 Atk / 216 SpD Adamant allows Conkeldurr to take a Timid Chandelure’s Overheat. While less effective, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD Adamant can also work as it retains Conkeldurr's maximum power while buffing Conkeldurr's weaker defensive side. With this spread, Crocune will fail to 4HKO Conkeldurr so long as Sandstorm isn't in play. This allows Conkeldurr to comfortably obtain two Bulk Ups and follow up with Drain Punch to recover the health lost from Scald. If Crocune decides to Calm Mind, it would need to Calm Mind 6 times to KO Conkeldurr. A Careful nature with that same spread will allow even easier set-up, but will also result in a critical loss in power. Max HP is never a bad option as it keeps Conkeldurr sturdy on the specially defensive side while further improving its physical bulk. After a Bulk Up, Skarmory's Brave Bird will fail to 2HKO Conkeldurr. This allows Conkeldurr to Bulk Up while Skarmory switches in, Bulk Up twice more, survive the second Brave Bird assault, and follow up with Drain Punch, which will 2HKO Skarmory. Therefore Skarmory cannot effectively counter Conkeldurr, since it might take heavy damage using Whirlwind to force Conkeldurr out to little advantage, and cannot use Roost since this increases the power of Drain Punch significantly. One can choose to be more defensive, though keep in mind that Conkeldurr will then not be much of athreat until it uses Bulk Up a few times. 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD Careful spread allows Conkeldurr to set up on Pokemon such as Vaporeon easily. Scald won't even 4HKO Conkeldurr, while +1 Drain Punch can fully recover Conkeldurr's lost health.</p>

    <p>Conkeldurr's main issues are Pokemon that resist or are immune to Fighting-type attacks. While Payback or Stone Edge can alleviate the problem, neither is a complete solution. If Conkeldurr is using Payback, make sure to pack Pokemon that can take down Flying-types. If Conkeldurr is running Stone Edge, its teammates need to be able to handle Ghost-types. Stealth Rock is highly recommended to deter Flying-types such as Thundurus and Zapdos from wrecking Conkeldurr. Spikes or Toxic Spikes are never a bad idea, as both prevent Conkeldurr from being stalled out by Hippowdon. Scarf Tyranitar is a great Pokemon to pair alongside Conkeldurr, as even though the sandstorm nullifies Leftovers recovery, Tyranitar eliminates many of Conkeldurr’s checks. Conkeldurr can take some special attacks, but it doesn't like facing a special sweeper while trying to set up. Chansey or Blissey can help absorb powerful special attacks but must beware of Psyshock. Conkeldurr’s team should have some way of weakening the opponent’s physical walls. Infernape is never a bad Pokemon to use for this purpose. Gengar can help a lot since it hits many Psychic-types hard with STAB Shadow Ball; in return, Conkeldurr keeps Tyranitar away from Gengar.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Focus Punch
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Mach Punch
    move 4: Payback / Stone Edge
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Conkeldurr boasts the most powerful Focus Punch in the game. Conkeldurr's good defenses and low Speed allow it to set up Substitute safely. After Substitute is set up, the opponent is not going to enjoy what could possibly come next. STAB Focus Punch has so much power it 2HKOes Skarmory after Stealth Rock, even with Leftovers taken into account. Mach Punch is a great move to complement Focus Punch as it can KO severely wounded Pokemon while ignoring Conkeldurr's poor Speed. Payback or Stone Edge finishes the set off to complement Conkeldurr’s Fighting-type STAB. Payback makes sure that no Ghost-types will be willing to switch into Conkeldurr, as even an unboosted Payback can 2HKO Dusknoir, while Dusknoir won’t even be able to break Conkeldurr’s Substitute with Shadow Punch. Sadly, 0 SpA Jellicent does 26% minimum with Scald on max HP Conkeldurr. You can opt to use 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD with an Adamant Nature though, since Conkeldurr’s Substitute will not be broken most of the time (22% - 26.2%). Stone Edge helps keep switch-ins such as Zapdos and Salamence out of the picture.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Offensively, Conkeldurr has many more options he can utilize. Drain Punch is one of them, and it can go in the third slot so Conkeldurr can play more of a tanking role as well as recovering off any HP lost from using Substitute. However, Mach Punch is the better choice, as it can pick off Pokemon that have been severely dented by Focus Punch, and STAB priority coming off a base 140 Attack stat is too good to pass up. Conkeldurr has access to Earthquake, but in terms of coverage, it is rather redundant with Conkeldurr’s Fighting STAB. Force Palm may be used in hopes of paralyzing faster threats. However, since you should be carrying Mach Punch, Speed isn’t a very big concern. If you really want to buff up your attacks, Life Orb is an option; however, it does not change any significant 2HKOs into OHKOs. If you feel Conkeldurr should start abusing its ability without relying on the opponent’s ability to status, a Flame Orb can be used to activate your Guts boost. However, the combined loss of HP from burn damage and Substitute damage means Conkeldurr needs to rely on Drain Punch to stay alive, which forces it to lose the utility of priority in Mach Punch. If you find Stone Edge's accuracy unappealing, Rock Slide can be used instead, although the power drop can be just as unappealing.</p>

    <p>Since this Conkeldurr variant lacks any sufficient means of HP recovery, Wish support greatly aids it in recovering any health lost by status or Substitute use. As Conkeldurr lacks an immunity it can switch into, it is best to pair it up with Pokemon who can set up Wishes as well as lure in something Pokemon that struggle against Conkeldurr. Alomomola and Vaporeon work well because of their reasonable bulk and enormous base HP stats, allowing Conkeldurr to benefit fully from the Wish. Chansey and Blissey also do a fantastic job at passing Wishes, and both can easily come in on any special attacks aimed at Conkeldurr. However, Conkeldurr is probably best paired with either Jirachi or Latias, as they both can lure in Dark-type attacks, such as Tyranitar’s STAB Crunch, enabling a safe switch to Conkeldurr to resist the attack and receive the Wish. However, Jirachi, unlike Latias, resists both Psychic and Flying attacks aimed at Conkeldurr, and its higher base HP makes it the superior candidate for passing Wishes.</p>

    <p>Though not absolutely necessary, a Dual Screen user can provide Conkeldurr with increased bulk to allow longer-lasting Substitutes. Cresselia does a fantastic job of this, as it offers almost unmatched bulk and can set up both screens with ease. It also resists any Psychic attacks aimed at Conkeldurr, easily shrugging them off and immediately setting up. Conkeldurr also resists any Bug or Dark attacks Cresselia may lure, giving it safe opportunities to switch in. Reuniclus also makes a great partner for setting up screens, as its nice bulk coupled with Magic Guard allows it to easily set up. Xatu also does a decent job of setting up screens, and needn’t fear getting Taunted due to Magic Bounce. Conkeldurr can also absorb any Rock attacks Xatu may attract, while Xatu absorbs any Psychic attacks aimed at Conkeldurr.</p>

    <p>As far as counters go, there is no “solid” method to beat this Conkeldurr variant. The closest things to counters are Pokemon that can take a few Focus Punches, break Conkeldurr’s Substitute, and continue to wear it down. Skarmory can slowly wear Conkeldurr down with STAB Brave Bird; however, it is still 2HKOed by Focus Punch, and if the opponent incorrectly predicts when using Roost, it will almost always result in an OHKO. Poison Heal Gliscor is probably the best counter, as with physical investment, it can come in and survive most of Conkeldurr’s moves, Fling a Toxic Orb onto it, and wear down Conkeldurr with STAB-boosted Acrobat, preventing any Substitutes with Taunt. A problem with the Sand Veil Gliscor variants is that they must be careful when Roosting, as a neutral Focus Punch can put a serious dent into Gliscor. Bulky Psychic-types can come in and wall this Conkeldurr set if it opts for Stone Edge over Payback. Cresselia and Reuniclus can all come in on any Fighting moves, break the sub with STAB Psychic attacks, and continue to whittle down Conkeldurr or set up on the switch. If Conkeldurr is carrying Stone Edge over Payback, Golurk completely walls Conkeldurr, and can set up on the switch or slowly wear Conkeldurr down with Earthquake.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Hammer Arm / Superpower
    move 2: Mach Punch
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Payback
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>With a Choice Band and the EVs listed, Conkeldurr reaches a ridiculous Attack stat of 624, and a gargantuan 936 after a Guts boost. To show just how terrifying a threat this variant can be, Mach Punch deals 95.3% - 113% to a 0/0 Excadrill, meaning Stealth Rock, one layer of Spikes, or a Guts boost ensures a KO. After the Guts boost, Superpower OHKOes 252 / 252 Vaporeon, as well as the “standard” Skarmory with Stealth Rock in play. As for Hammer Arm, “standard” Skarmory takes 75.4% - 88.9%, meaning it will definitely be KOed after Brave Bird recoil. Superpower also inflicts 84.3% - 99.3% to the “standard” Hippowdon set, while Hammer Arm always 2HKO’s. However, if opting for Hammer Arm over Superpower, Speed EVs need to be invested if you want to outspeed Hippowdon after the Speed drop, and avoid giving the opponent any opportunities to Slack Off the damage. In the case of 252 / 252 Hippowdon variants, Superpower will inflict 78.1% - 92.1%, meaning entry hazard support may be required to ensure an OHKO. The last two slots offer Conkeldurr coverage against various threats. A Max HP / Max Def Spiritomb with a positive nature takes 42.8% - 50.3% from an unboosted Stone Edge, while with the Guts boost it inflicts 63.8% - 75.3%. A 252 HP / 228 Def Dusknoir even takes a significant 76.9% - 90.5% from Payback if running a Defense-boosting nature.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>To show just how devastating this Conkeldurr variant can be, here are damage calculations on how much Mach Punch inflicts on various threats:

    Without a Guts Boost:
    0/0 Lucario: OHKO
    0/0 Terrakion: 78% - 91.6%
    0/0 Mamoswine: 75.3% - 89.8%
    0/0 Infernape: 51.5% - 60.8%
    0/0 Flygon: 45.2% - 53.8%
    0/0 Haxorus: 43% - 50.5%

    After the Guts boost:
    0/0 Mamoswine: OHKO
    0/0 Infernape: 77.1% - 91.1%
    0/0 Garchomp: 49.7% - 58.9%</p>

    <p>If you find the lack of Leftovers unappealing, Drain Punch is an option that can be used in the third or fourth slot. Though a Drain Punch won’t net you as many KOs as Superpower or Hammer Arm, the Guts boost helps recover any damage taken from attacks or status. Said Drain Punch also hits a positive-natured 252 HP / 152 Def Hippowdon to the point where Conkeldurr can recover around 100 HP, allowing for greater survivability.</p>

    <p>Another method to help Conkeldurr recover health is to pair him up with Wish support, as damage from entry hazards from constant switching, as well as status, can really take its toll on Conkeldurr. Jirachi does this job best, as its relatively high base HP allows Conkeldurr to recover more health; in addition, Conkeldurr can safely switch in on any Dark attacks Jirachi may lure. Another great partner for Conkeldurr is Drought Ninetales, as the permanent sun lessens the threat of bulky Waters, such as Quagsire and Jellicent.</p>

    <p>Once again, Gliscor makes the most effective counter to this set, as its high physical bulk and resistance to Conkeldurr’s Fighting STAB allow it to take virtually anything this set can dish out. Skarmory also outspeeds Conkeldurr, but despite its great physical bulk, it should be careful when Roosting. It can still slam Conkeldurr for 58.5% - 69.6% with STAB Brave Bird, though.</p>

    <p>When countering Conkeldurr, one must always carry Pokemon who can take advantage of its weak points. If Conkeldurr is statused, a weather changer such as Abomasnow or Hippowdon can cause Conkeldurr to rack up even more residual damage, and though status means Guts is activated, poison or burn damage combined with sandstorm or hail will quickly wear down Conkeldurr to the point that a faster threat can easily KO it. Since a Choice Band forces Conkeldurr to lock itself into one move, you can bring in a Ghost type if it locks itself into Mach Punch, Hammer Arm, or Superpower, allowing you to set up on the switch.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Offensively, Conkeldurr has a fair number of other options it can use. Low Kick is an option for heavier foes, as it hits Pokemon like Snorlax harder than Hammer Arm. However, lighter threats such as Jirachi can easily take a Low Kick and set up on the switch or simply attack. If you want Conkeldurr to provide its own paralysis support, Force Palm is an option, as the 30% paralysis rate allows Conkeldurr to cripple faster threats. However, Force Palm is illegal with Mach Punch, and the utility of a STAB priority move coming off base 140 attack is too much for Conkeldurr to give up for a paralysis chance of only 30%.</p>

    <p>Though Guts is generally the superior option in terms of ability, Conkeldurr can run a Sheer Force + LO set consisting of moves which benefit from the ability. However, the only decent moves that Conkeldurr can run along with Sheer Force are Force Palm, Poison Jab, and Rock Slide, all of which are not too powerful even after the boost, with Force Palm only reaching 78 BP before STAB. Sheer Force also means that Scald and Will-O-Wisp ruin you completely, something that is not a problem when running Guts.</p>

    <p>Conkeldurr can also run a set that revolves entirely around Guts by using either a Flame or Toxic Orb. This allows it to take advantage of the Guts boost without fail, instead of relying on the opponent to status it. However, this means Conkeldurr will not receive HP recovery (no Leftovers), and must run Drain Punch to recover off any damage acquired from status or rely heavily on Wish support.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Poison Heal Gliscor is probably the most solid counter to Conkeldurr, as it can take any of its moves and whittle Conkeldurr down with STAB Acrobat. However, they should Fling their item prior to facing Conkeldurr, as the status can activate Guts. Once relieved of its item, Gliscor can proceed to attack Conkeldurr with a STAB-boosted Acrobat, while still maintaining the ability to take all of Conkeldurr’s moves. Skarmory also makes a nice counter due to its immense physical bulk and access to STAB Brave Bird, as well as the ability to phaze Conkeldurr out, nullifying any boosts it may acquire. However, one must beware of Guts-boosted Hammer Arm coming off the Choice Band set, as any Stealth Rock damage plus Brave Bird recoil equals a dead Skarmory. Skarmory, like Gliscor, should be wary of when to Roost, as any of Conkeldurr’s boosted Fighting STAB moves really hurt once they rid themselves of their Flying-type. Another physical wall, who counters Conkeldurr to a lesser extent, is Hippowdon, and though it is not as effective as Skarmory or Gliscor, it can still take most of Conkeldurr’s moves, attack with Earthquake, and Slack Off any damage. The permanent sandstorm it summons also allows for bonus residual damage on Conkeldurr, making it easier to take out if it's not carrying Drain Punch. If carrying Toxic and Stockpile, Hippowdon can stall out Conkeldurr with lower health, as the sandstorm and Toxic damage will really rack up with every turn, while Hippowdon can just Slack Off any damage. However, Hippowdon should not use this strategy against a healthier Conkeldurr, as the status means that Guts is activated, and Hammer Arm or Superpower coming off the Choice Band set in addition to Guts can seriously dent it.</p>

    <p>Ghost-types, such as Gengar, can easily come in on a predicted Fighting move and either attack Conkeldurr’s weak Special Defense with STAB Shadow Ball or set up on the switch in the case of the Choice Band variants. However, one must be careful when switching in physically frail Ghost-types, as a predicted Payback coming off Conkeldurr’s Attack stat can still KO despite the fact that it is not at full power. Bulky Ghost-types such as Dusknoir can easily take anything that Conkeldurr can throw (bar boosted Payback) and steadily wear it down or set up. Spiritomb also causes a great problem for Conkeldurr, as its nice bulk and low speed mean it can take any of your attacks, and usually won't be receiving full Payback damage, allowing it to easily Pain Split off any damage. Calm Mind variants also pose a great threat towards Conkeldurr, as they can set up, Pain Split to regain health, and attack Conkeldurr's weaker defensive side.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Conkeldurr gains the ability Iron Fist through Dream World, which can be a great option offensively for Conkeldurr, and, once released, it can be swapped with Guts on the SubPunch set, as the Substitute can block status while Iron Fist boosts both Focus Punch and Mach Punch. Even a 0/0 Heracross takes 71.5% - 84.4% from an Iron Fist-boosted Focus Punch, as well as an additional 19.2% - 22.8% from Mach Punch. This means that if Stealth Rock is set up, a Focus Punch followed by Mach Punch will KO Heracross. Iron Fist Conkeldurr can also run a great Expert Belt set, as an Iron Fist + Expert Belt Mach Punch OHKOes Excadrill. Drain Punch also gets a boost, meaning Conkeldurr can recover even more health from it, and thus more easily maintain a healthy HP while still taking a chunk out of the opponent.</p>
  2. elDino

    elDino Deal With It.
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    This is good so far, maybe think about adding a Guts set or even a choice band set if needed. Keep it up!
  3. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Has it's Dream World been released? If so, replace Guts on the Focus Punch set with Iron Fist. Drain Punch could also work on that set too but it's risky without Mach Punch.
  4. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    No, Dream World Roobushin (or it's pre-evolutions) have not been released, so Iron Fist isn't legal yet. I'll mention Drain Punch in the AC.
  5. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    Um. None of the 5th Generation Pokémon have been released with their Dream World abilities, to my knowledge.

    -Zane

    EDIT: I'm too slow. ):
  6. A Man In Black

    A Man In Black

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    Darminitan and one other, IIRC.
  7. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Okay, just double checking. Know where I can find a list of Dream World releases so I don't have to keep looking like an idiot?
  8. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    You can find the list here.
  9. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    How could I forget? Thank you.
  10. Mr.Senior

    Mr.Senior

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    guts is a better option anyway. allows you to switch into burns if your other pokes are susceptible to burns. gyarados garchomp etc.. also allows u to take boiling waters without much to fear. although if you're just using roobs as a way to drag out their fighting resist and smack the shit out of em, then iron fist could be used.
  11. serazac

    serazac

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    Does Sheer Force cancels Super Power's effect? If it does...LO Sheer Force Super Power Conkeldurr...that would be just awesome I guess

    EDIT: Nevermind I forgot it only applies on the "positive" effect moves...meh
  12. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    Psh, I can barely call those Dream World abilities, considering they're obtainable in-game! d: But, duly noted.

    But anyways, I really like this analysis.

    However, it's worth mentioning that Conkeldurr is effective on both Rain AND Sun teams, considering that Conkeldurr can demolish opposing Ferrothorn for Rain teams, and murder opposing Tyranitar for both teams. In return, Conkeldurr receives a pseudo-resistance to Fire- or Water-Type attacks, and doesn't have to tolerate permanent Hail or Sandstorm. However, it's unfortunate that Sun teams tend to repel Will-o-Wisps for Conkeldurr to utilize.

    -Zane
  13. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    QC APPROVED (1/2)
  14. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Posting to say this is done. Just a question though, do the two QC stamps from the original thread carry over, or are they reset?

    Edit:
    The problem with rain teams are opposing bulky waters (and offensive water types, for that matter) now get rain boosted STAB moves, and Surf off of a Specs Starmie really hurts with Conkeldurr's below average base 65 SpD. Also, pokemon like Rain Dish Tentacruel can easily wall you and set up Toxic Spikes, which can seriously cripple the rest of your team. I've actually tried using Conkledurr on a sun team, but, through my experiences, it did not really benefit the team in any significant way, as I had Grass types dealing with Tyranitar and Fire types dealing with Abomasnow.
  15. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    Opposing bulky Waters, for the most part, will give Conkeldurr a hard time anyways. And if you're using him on a rain team, it's likely you have a Kingdra or Ludicolo to take care of most opposing Water-Types, so that's not an issue, really. And if you're REALLY frightened of Toxic Spikes, running a Quilfish, or Tentacruel of your own can help that weakness.

    -Zane
  16. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    If you haven't changed any information from the previous analysis then they carry over, since you haven't changed anything.

    In this case, I'd say that the checks stand.
  17. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Ok, thanks for the clarification. I suppose this is ready for GP checks then.
  18. Mr.Senior

    Mr.Senior

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    being the slowest fully evolved fighter tied with nageki along with having the highest attacking stat of any fighter as well, i think a guts abusing trick room sweeper set is viable.

    Conkeldurr (such a bad name) @ flame orb
    - hammer arm/drainpunch/superpower
    - stone edge
    - earthquake
    - facade
    Guts
    Brave
    252 hp 252 atk 4 sp def
    spe IV: 0

    seems pretty good to me. 624 attack. 113 speed. awesome coverage. doesn't mind priority too much. also i noticed in the analysis somewhere. stone edge doesn't get the boost from sheer force. only rock slide does. on any sheer force set rock slide is usually better. any other set stone edge is better.
  19. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Skarmory is only a counter in the fact that it can take an attack and Whirlwind it away. If it actually tries to KO it's not likely to win. Every Skarmory that uses Brave Bird on me dies. Why? For one, I always have at least one Bulk Up. And another is no Skarmory invests in Attack EVs. If you just spam Drain Punch it's going to be forced to heal eventually while you're recovering from neutral Drain Punch and Leftovers. And when it decides to Roost, it is now weak to fighting and takes SE damage. It's a downhill battle. I also don't understand the logic that it prefers Payback because it can set up on Ghosts. Wouldn't you prefer Payback if Ghosts give you trouble? I find Stone Edge much preferable because, like you said, you can Bulk Up and OHKO with Stone Edge anyway, and now you have something to hit Salamence, Dragonite, Volcerona, etc. Also, hitting Cofagrigus with Payback gives you Mummy, which will make you susceptible to burn. Stone Edge won't.
  20. Dummy007

    Dummy007

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    Full grammar check to come. Changes in red.

    [Overview]

    <p>Conkeldurr shows what it takes to be an offensive powerhouse when Speed isn't its strongest suit. Its 140 base Attack means that every hit from Conkeldurr is going to hurt. With Guts as an ability, burning Conkeldurr will only lead to more destruction. Those stone slabs Conkeldurr holds aren't for show either, as it is as durable as the slabs are. While 65 Special Defense may not seem like much, it's backed by 105 base HP and 95 Defense. Conkeldurr lacks Close Combat, but holds two attacks that many bulky Fighting-types would beg to have: Mach Punch and Drain Punch. Conkeldurr is (removed "just") one of the main reasons you should have a Fighting-type resist on your team. The opponent that dares not to pack a Ghost or Flying-type ("Fighting-type resist" sounded repetitive) should give up at the sight of Conkeldurr.</p>
  21. A Man In Black

    A Man In Black

    Joined:
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    This damages the meaning, as there are several excellent non-flying, non-ghost Conkeldurr counters, particularly Slowbro and Reuniculus.
  22. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Payback gives Conkeldurr superior coverage over Stone Edge, and the fact that its so slow means that you'll usually be recieving the boost. It is also one of Conkeldurr's moves that allow him to set up on Ghost types. The low accuracy of Stone Edge means a miss allows said Ghosts hit you hard with a special move, which is made worse by the fact that you can't Drain Punch. Payback also it your best means of hitting Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Slowbro as they can take Stone Edge with relative ease.

    Thanks for the help, changes made. However, I think I've added "Ghost, Flying, and Psychic-type" to the last sentence, as A Man In Black makes a good point about other Conkeldurr counters.
  23. Dummy007

    Dummy007

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    Wow, I completely forgot that Psychic resists Fighting while writing this. Nice call. I'll fully proofread this tomorrow.
  24. A Man In Black

    A Man In Black

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    Payback hits Reuniclus and Slowbro (and Wobbuffet, BTW) for the same damage as Stone Edge, albeit with better accuracy, because Conk is generally going to be faster than them. Your only real play against either of those two is to switch out.

    The main issue with Payback is that it can't really hurt anything on the switch; the Pokemon you'd want to hit with Payback on the switch are Golurk and Claydol. Everything else takes equal or more from Stone Edge or Drain Punch.

    Pokemon like Azelf, Alakazam, Deoxys-S, Gengar, and Espeon already can't take a +1 Stone Edge; most of them are OHKOed by it with SR up (and sometimes even without). What's more, you can't stay in to take their attack, as all but Gengar are prone to using psychic-typed STAB attacks.

    So Payback is mostly useful against threats you can actually stay in on. It wrecks walls like Jellicent, Dusclops/Dusknoir, Deoxys-D, Cresselia, and some defensive Latias. It also allows you to trade Conk for big hits on bulky special attackers who aren't likely to use psychic-typed STAB, like Celebi, Starmie, and some Latios, although this will almost always ruin him. Finally, it gives you a better play against a few of the oddballs who resist fighting/rock, like Golurk, Claydol, and Nidoking, although these are vanishingly rare.

    The choice of Payback over Stone Edge (or vice versa) isn't merely a case of "superior coverage"; you need to counter Pokemon, not types. Payback is well-suited to a Conk who needs to get past walls or one in a role similar to gen4 lead Machamp, luring out bulky special attackers and wrecking them at the cost of being useful only for priority revenge kills. Stone Edge is better against offensive teams, since it vastly outperforms Payback in the hit-and-switch sort of play offense versus offense encourages and against the sort of checks and counters that offensive teams will use to deal with Conk.

    There isn't a right answer here, just a right answer to fit into your team.
  25. yee

    yee
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    lol

    Also, under the Choice Band set, Guts isn't a +1 boost, nor is CB. There both a 1.5x multiplier. If you put CB and +1 into the damage calculator it will be the same effect as CB+Guts though. Sorry if I came off kinda anal just wanted to point that out.

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