Epikhairz
Anything goes
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Pokémon Conkeldurr
- Thread starter Epikhairz
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As much as I love the good old bulk up set, I feel like that all 4 moveslots are just to important for attacking moves. Aspecially since Dark+Fighting is no longer that good coverage it used to be and Ice+Fighting is walled by Aegislash and Azumarill which aren't uncommon. Knock-off at least, takes away the items. And even if you don't have coverage in your attacking moves, you can switch out without having wasted most of your turns setting up and still not able to 2HKO anything important.
Why would you invest SpDef over health and ruin conks physical bulk for slightly more special bulk?
Investing Attack is nonnegotiable, av conk is an offensive pivot/tank and as such needs to pack a punch.
Investing Attack is nonnegotiable, av conk is an offensive pivot/tank and as such needs to pack a punch.
As a none japanese person we simply have to wait or could we breed these moves on through new pokemon perhaps?
I think having the least possible HP means Conkeldurr recovers the most possible health percentage when using drain punch.
It also means you die faster to Physical moves and gain very little added special bulk compared to Max HP investment.
I didn't say that was the right EV spread, it's just the reasoning people might have.
Would a 252 attack 252 defense spread be just as inefficient?
that reasoning is applied to subseeders, which conkeldurr obviously is not. the reason max hp isn't run is to maximise special bulk, though it really depends on what your team needs.
AV Conkeldurr is more suited to tanking neutral special hits or resisted physical attacks. Resisted physical attacks are tanked comfortably even without HP investment, but the extra special bulk that you gain by investing in SpD over HP is very helpful to stomach those powerful neutral special hits, such as Greninja's Hydro Pump, Kyurem-B's Ice Beam, and Heatran's Fire Blast. Also, by having less HP you heal more with Drain Punch, which is very beneficial in the long run.
Of course, using max HP is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are relying on Conkeldurr to take some strong neutral physical attacks, but in general, it is more beneficial to invest in SpD.
Epikhairz
Anything goes
you will either have to wait, or perform a trade with someone who has access to this stuff.
You could also try your luck at Wonder Trade, its how I got espeed dratini as well as a few past-gen starters
Also, I checked the AV Conk set I've been running and it also had max Atk investment (in place of HP). I don't know what possessed me to put it all in HP and not in Attack :x
So lets say that you wanted to find the perfect balance between HP and Sp Defense investment. Are there any notable things that you might want to throw HP EVs at?
dont use max hp there is a better build if you want to go that route. I personally had been doing max hp for a long time since I wanted to use both the av's boost as well as have his physical defense still be pretty solid. but thanks to a friends suggestion I now use a better spread while keeping nearly the same def and spc def. anyway keep max attack and adamant nature then put 136 in def and 120 in spc def. This keeps the spc def the exact same as if you had 252 in hp and you take 1% more on the physical side. the reason this spread is better is b/c drain punch heals you based on % so while you are taking nearly the same amount of % dmg your total health is lower so your drain punch will heal a larger percent of your health.
I've been using the CroCune version of Conkeldurr so CroConk. It is not easy to use but it is a fantastic late game cleaner. Here's the set:
Conkeldurr (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Atk or 252 Atk/ 252 SpD/ 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch/ Knock Off
Guts is activated by Sleep. Bulk Up is to get past tough defensive mons. Your attacking move depends on your team: Drain Punch if you can get rid of Ghost and Knock Off hits common switch ins like Celebi, Jellicent, Jirachi. Recovery from Drain Punch + Leftovers + Rest makes Conkeldurr ridiculously hard to kill so it is the preferred move.
Conkeldurr (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Atk or 252 Atk/ 252 SpD/ 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch/ Knock Off
Guts is activated by Sleep. Bulk Up is to get past tough defensive mons. Your attacking move depends on your team: Drain Punch if you can get rid of Ghost and Knock Off hits common switch ins like Celebi, Jellicent, Jirachi. Recovery from Drain Punch + Leftovers + Rest makes Conkeldurr ridiculously hard to kill so it is the preferred move.
even not in doubles, 3-turn Trick Room is enough to at least KO 1 Pokemon. Assault Vest is a Good item also to compensates Conkeldurr's lack of Special Defense stat.
Just a quick question. Is it worth dropping conks speed Iv down to 16 or lower so that you are slower than brave 0 iv aegislash? it will ensure that you kill it one hit. Is this worthwhile or does doing that give you any disadvantages that I am missing?
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 216 SDef / 40 HP
Adamant Nature
IVs: 16 Spd
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake/Knock off
This is the set i am going to try it on as allowing Aegislash to get two hits on me cost me a game just before. I am not sure how common the 0 speed iv Aegi is however
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 216 SDef / 40 HP
Adamant Nature
IVs: 16 Spd
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake/Knock off
This is the set i am going to try it on as allowing Aegislash to get two hits on me cost me a game just before. I am not sure how common the 0 speed iv Aegi is however
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Conk doesn't need Resttalk, it murders his coverage which he needs to be a threat. Leftovers and Drain Punch, with boosts, are plenty enough for healing Conk.
As for the HP vs SpD debate I've heard a few times that less HP means you heal more with Drain Punch. This is technically untrue. The amount of HP you absorb is based on the damage dealt. If you deal 100 damage you will heal 50 HP every time. The difference is having less HP means you are recovering a greater percentage of your maximum health, but not actually healing more.
On an Assault Vest set however, splitting your EVs is actually more efficient.
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 76-90 (21.5 - 25.5%) -- 0.4% chance to 4HKO
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 102-121 (24.6 - 29.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 130 HP / 126 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 87-103 (22.7 - 26.8%) -- 37.7% chance to 4HKO
As you can see, you can take many of the SpD EVs and put them into HP and retain an effective special defense very close to before, while having more HP to heal to and slightly better Df as a result.
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 79-94 (21.6 - 25.7%) -- 1.6% chance to 4HKO
This ratio gets you pretty damn close to the same effective SpD as before. You now have an HP stat of 365 and SpD of 216.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 144-172 (39.4 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Keeping Greninja Hydro Pump a 3HKO is something pretty good to shoot for. But if we tweak it slightly.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 44 HP / 212 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 142-169 (39.2 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
With this spread Greninja can never 2HKO you even with Stealth Rock up. The other one had roughly a 1% chance, but why risk that compared to 0 right? lol
Thoughts on subpunching conkeldurr? Is it any good? Is it outclassed? I think a set would look somethinglike this
Item: Leftovers
EVs:252hp/252atk/4spdef
Adamant nature
Item: Leftovers/Black belt
Ability: Iron fist
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Focus punch
Move 3: Knock off
Move 4: Ice punch/Drain punch
Most of it is self explanatory, knock off is there for ghost types and general coverage blah blah blah. For the 4th slot, you could run Ice punch for stuff like Gliscor and Landorus(or some other stuff thats 4x weak to it if you are protected by a sub) and if you choose this, you should use the leftovers item to gain hp from all the substitutes. Another option is to run Drain punch for a better, quicker way of recovering health and if you do this, the Black belt item is now viable and your Focus punches will now recieve STAB, Iron fist boost AND Black belt boost so uh yeah thats cool.
Leave your thoughts. Is it viable? are there too many noivern/talonflame/alakazam for this to work? any other moves that you can use on it? :3
Item: Leftovers
EVs:252hp/252atk/4spdef
Adamant nature
Item: Leftovers/Black belt
Ability: Iron fist
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Focus punch
Move 3: Knock off
Move 4: Ice punch/Drain punch
Most of it is self explanatory, knock off is there for ghost types and general coverage blah blah blah. For the 4th slot, you could run Ice punch for stuff like Gliscor and Landorus(or some other stuff thats 4x weak to it if you are protected by a sub) and if you choose this, you should use the leftovers item to gain hp from all the substitutes. Another option is to run Drain punch for a better, quicker way of recovering health and if you do this, the Black belt item is now viable and your Focus punches will now recieve STAB, Iron fist boost AND Black belt boost so uh yeah thats cool.
Leave your thoughts. Is it viable? are there too many noivern/talonflame/alakazam for this to work? any other moves that you can use on it? :3
Mostly-standard Assault Vest Conkeldurr makes a terrific addition to rain hyper/bulky offense. Rain teams struggle with weather control when Tyranitar lurks on the other side, and obviously Conk makes a great dino killer, but by running Rock Slide > Ice Punch he also makes quick work of Zard Y, another massive pain in rain's ass who often likes to run around early game trying to disrupt. Leading with or switching into Conk (max SpD can tank em good unless you switch into Fire Blast, which seems unlikely if you led with Toed) is a great way to dispatch Zard Y nice and early, even if it means losing a bunch of health on Conk (recommend a second Rotom-W check on the team in case it's a problem). Ice punch will be mostly redundant with rain's coverage anyway.
God I love this fucking lunk.
God I love this fucking lunk.
Anyone have a counter or check to this thing not named Bravest-Bird (talonflame, staraptor, ect.)?
I like this idea a lot, actually. Conk isn't outspending much anyway, so it's not like it matters. It can use Mach Punch for that anyway, but not on aegislash, obviously.
Quick look to usage statistics would imply any of Pinsir/Clefable/Medicham/Gardevoir/Sylveon/Azumarill/Venusaur/Togekiss/Grandbull/Mawile/Slurpuff/Talonflame at least check the stantard Drain/Mach/Knock/IceP AV set, KOing or forcing conkelderp to switch 75-90% of times.
Any fairy type that isn't weak to Ice Punch (so any but Togekiss) and won't mind losing its item to Knock Off. I suppose Granbull would work, but what else would you do with it?
Liquid Ooze Tentacruel with Knock Off
Clefable (Cosmic Power helps)
Azumarill
Staraptor
Toxic-stall Gliscor
Mega Venusaur
Volcarona
Mega Pinsir
Mega Scizor
Slowbro with Psyshock
CharY
Cofagrigus
That's a lot of them
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