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Constant Motion [Hyper Offense OU RMT]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Adm. Empoleon, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. Adm. Empoleon

    Adm. Empoleon

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    394
    So before the fifth generation of Pokemon comes to town, I wanted to make a team that would once and for all, serve me well. I tried bulky offense, stall, but I failed both times. Then, upon reading Stahakis's HO RMT, and reading Garry Kasparov's book "How Life Imitates Chess", I decided to make a Hyper Offense team.

    Now Hyper Offense is, well, all-out attack, keeping the pressure on the opponent as he tries to counter your Pokemon, but fails because you out-speed him or you overpower him. The key to HO is to set up screens, then send out a Pokemon that can set up safely and proceed to win.

    Now HO teams are best off attacking from one end of the spectrum, so they are usually all Special attackers, or Physical attackers. In this RMT, I will focus on special attackers only​

    Changes shall be in bold.

    Building the team (open)
    Well, since I was going to attack from the special side of the spectrum, I had to have to best special sweeper in OU. Empoleon.

    Now I needed something to counter his usual threats, namely TTar, Infernape, Lucario, Starmie. So I decided on three Pokemon:

    Suicune. Because of it's awesome bulk, I can set up on a number of Pokemon and proceed to sweep the opposing team.

    Gengar. He can come in on EQ or Focus Blast from anything and reply accordingly.

    Jolteon. With blistering Speed and awesome Sp. Atk, he is a must-have on any HO team attacking from the special side. This was replaced by Starmie.

    Now I had 4 Pokemon in my arsenal, all I needed was an additional set up sweeper and a lead. Azelf, of course, is the best lead for any HO team, setting up screens, Taunting any attempt to set up rocks, then blowing himself up when he finds himself useless.This guys was replaced by Uxie.

    For the other set up sweeper, I thought of Infernape. An awesome Sp. Atk combined with Nasty Plot and great Speed, earned him a slot on my team.


    Team at a glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Under the microscope:

    The lead:
    [​IMG]@Light Clay
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs:252 HP/36 Def/216 Spd/4 SDef
    Moves:
    ~Light Screen
    ~Reflect
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~U-turn

    Nitpick review:
    Suggested to me by TheLegendKiller, this Uxie has done wonders to this team. Setting up rocks and DS is its job, and it does it quite well. Usually I just set up rocks then the DS, or, if i'm facing a lead that's faster than me, U-turn to bring out a Pokemon to KO him. I had an Azelf in this spot that used to set up screens and blow up.

    If you ask me what the moves are for, you're an idiot. Stealth Rock to make 2HKO's OHKO's, Reflect and Light Screen to protect my sweepers while setting up, U-Turn to give my Pokemon free switches. The EVs, on the other hand, to maximize bulk and defense to set up nearly everything safely.

    How I fare up against the top ten leads: (open)

    SHALL BE UPDATED ONCE I DEAL WITH THEM.

    -----
    First set up sweeper:
    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/64 Atk/192 Spd
    Moves:
    ~Nasty Plot
    ~Vacuum Wave
    ~Flamethrower
    ~Close Combat

    Nitpick review:
    I never thought King Kong's little brother on fire would do so much damage. also, it's one of the best special set up sweepers in OU. This thing does so much damage it's ridiculous, and after a single Nasty Plot, you better hide yo' kids, hide yo' wife cuz imma bout to rape errybody out here.

    Vacuum Wave for special STAB and priority, Flamethrower over Fire Blast is because i like to hit more frequently for a good amount of damage, and Grass Knot is to ruin any Swampert that tries to ruin my day. Don't underestimate the power of a STAB +2 priority attack. Now that I have SR on this team, thanks to Uxie, I can take down Blissey with Close Combat. I don't like missing a +4 Focus Blast and getting hit. Vacuum Wave is staying for sure.

    -----
    Second set up sweeper:
    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs:252 Spd/252 Sp. Atk
    Moves:
    ~Calm Mind
    ~Surf
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Hidden Power [Electric]

    Nitpick review:
    The winds of the south are turned into a fierce hurricane when you allow them to calm down a bit. I can set up about 3 Calm Minds before proceeding to sweep, sometimes more due to his natural bulk and screen protection. He's usually the first thing I send out after Uxie pulls a 180 and heads back home.

    Surf is for STAB, I hate Hydro Pump. Sure, it has more power, but I like to OHKO without having to worry about missing and getting hit. Ice Beam and HP Electric are for pseudo BoltBeam, hitting anything that thinks it can stall me out, or tries to set up on me. So Gyarados and DNite are frozen to death (this is assuming they will be switched in after a +1 boost), Vaporeon is fried, and I can hit for either neutral or SE damage to anything in the current metagame, bar Lanturn.

    -----
    The stand-alone threat:
    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Spd/252 Sp. Atk/4 HP
    Moves:
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Substitute
    ~Focus Blast
    ~Pain Split

    Nitpick review:
    This guy is awesome on his own, forcing switches, weakening teams, then dying on his own. I always send this guy out after Infernape, taking down as much Pokemon as I can, then dying and giving control to Suicine. The only problem here is the Hidden Power; I'm left with an imperfect Speed IV, which causes me to lose speed ties with other Gengar. But without that, any Steel Pokemon can come in and OHKO me. But keep in mind that even though it's imperfect, it can still outspeed any Pokemon with a base Speed stat of 109 and lower.Changed to the Sub Split set after dealing with numerous Blisseys. Under a sub i can still attack for either STAB or neutral attacks.

    As for the moves, they're pretty straightforward, Shadow Ball for STAB and Focus Blast for coverage.

    -----
    The mystifying threat:
    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Spd/252 Sp. Atk
    Moves:
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Surf
    ~Rapid Spin

    Nitpick review:
    LOStarmie, in its awesome presence, can cause bricks to be shat. The awesome coverage it provides, boosted by its Sp. Atk and Life Orb, make this a threat to almost any team. Also, its a new addition to my team after seeing how Jolteon was a bit useless (It could be my fault), but with this set, I can rid myself of entry hazards while maintaining pressure on the opposing team. This guy has also saved my from embarrassing situations, sometimes even sweeping all on his own and going 6-0. But then, I ladder on PO, so that's highly possible.

    As for the moves, Surf for STAB, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam for awesome coverage, Rapid Spin to get rid of all entry hazards. I do need to play some mind games when using it though.

    -----
    The dark emperor:
    [​IMG]@Petaya Berry
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/232 Spd/24 HP
    Moves:
    ~Substitute
    ~Agility
    ~Surf
    ~Ice Beam

    Nitpick review:
    Empoleon has been a favorite of mine since DPPt. With 11 resistances and an immunity, this thing isn't afraid of any entry hazard whatsoever. And that gives me a lot of chances to set up on a lot of things. I save this puppy till the end of the match so I can grab that desperate win. I've been surprised by the times I went from 3-1 to 0-1, and I still am. All this needs is a special priority Water move, and that's it.

    The moves and EVs should be straightforward, shouldn't they? Surf is for STAB, Ice Beam to hit anything weak to it, Substitute to lower its HP to activate Petaya and get it in Torrent range, and Agility, which is the glue of this whole set.

    -----
    So yeah, this is my team, feel free to comment, rate, stare at.
  2. Curtains

    Curtains

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,123
    This team is 97 percent walled by blissey. the easiest change would be to just change your gengar to sub split or use defensive sub split rotom. Rotom would be a good choice because choice band scizor's u turn can create massive holes in this team.If you want to run empoleon as a sweeper the best way to handle it is to run stuff thats physical and bulky like machamp to chop away at special walls. So i recommend over jolteon either a breloom or machamp.Here are some sample sets

    Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dynamicpunch
    - Payback
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    excellent status absorber which this team lacks and fine offensive threat

    Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 48 HP/252 Atk/208 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Focus Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Seed Bomb
    - Spore

    excellent special wall breaker and just a solid counter to many teams. Can easily sweep after empoleon.

    Good luck

    edit: a excellent pokemon for this team is a curse snorlax! With crunch and bodyslam you can sweep really easily and break special walls. You can do well against Lo starmie. Use this over jolteon and you can see some good results.
  3. SandslashPWNS

    SandslashPWNS

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
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    This. HO teams are supposed to find ways to defeat their Physical/Special wall opposition, and this team doesn't get past Blissey at all. I have 2 possible changes that would help here. First is Sub Split Gengar, as this does defeat Blissey, a potent threat to this team.

    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Timid | Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Pain Split

    Secondly, I suggest you give Infernape Focus Blast over either Vacuum Wave or Grass Knot, as + 2 Focus Blast will OHKO Bilssey with SR 100% of the time.
  4. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Firstly, @Curtains: Um, why did you recommend Physical attackers? Its a specially based HO team. If he's meant to break Special Walls, he needs to sac one of his sweepers to weaken the wall enough so it can be picked off by another sweeper. Isn't that like the golden rule of HO?

    Threats
    Blissey
    Scarf Flygon
    Lack of Stealth Rock


    How they're threats
    Blissey is every specially based team's enemy, and will usually come in on Jolteon or Suicune, since it fear Subsplit Gengar and Close Combat Infernape (even though you don't have them, it will assume). Scarf Flygon is also troublesome lategame, as only Gengar can take Earthquake, while everything else won't like Earthquake at all. Lastly, the lack of Stealth Rock is problematic, as you won't be able to get the necessary OHKOs and 2HKOs it provides.

    Solutions
    Blissey is fairly simple to handle. Simply replace Vacuum Wave with Close Combat on Infernape, give him 64 Atk to always OHKO Bold Blissey, 192 Spe and a Naive nature. Scarf Tyranitar also is kind of troublesome to this team, so test Hidden Power Fighting over HP Grass, as most of your team has Swampert covered fairly well, and take advantage of the fact that most people keep Tyranitar in on Jolteon, whereas Jolteon is even faster than Scarf Tyranitar. Lastly, try Dual Screen Uxie over Azelf, so you have a bulky Screener, who can come back mid game unlike Azelf. Try this set over Azelf:

    Uxie @ Light Clay
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/36 Def/216 Spd/4 SDef
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn

    It allows you to outspeed Lead Roserade and set up light screen its face. Uxie will take the sleep, so your sweepers can come in safely. Uxie doesn't mind sleep *that* much, since its pretty bulky to go through some turns of napping before setting up Stealth Rock and Reflect/L Screen. There really isn't much you could do about the Flygon weakness, other than perhaps try Life Orb Shaymin>Gengar. Shaymin can take a U-turn from Flygon and rest off the damage, while Flygon can't safely switch in everytime, as it hates Seed Flare. Shaymin also gives you a better Swampert answer, and has a chance to lower Blissey's sdefense two stages, and take it out, in case Infernape has failed. Lastly, Shaymin gives you a better answer to Crocune, and Offensive Cune in general, as Jolteon will be left with little health after it Kos Suicune with Surf, but Shaymin can alleviate this by Rest, therefore making it more reliable in countering Suicune. Try a spread of 32 HP/252 Satk/220 Spe, Timid Nature, Seed Flare|HP Fire|Earth power|Rest and a life orb.

    Other than that it looks solid, GL!
  5. McNUTTY

    McNUTTY

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
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    ^^ the Uxie suggestion is great as you badly need Sr on this team as it requires them for some kills. I also think due to the nature of HO that the more powerful versions of your attacks should be used, I.E. Fire Blast over Flamethrower.
    Also is the RMT named after the Dream Theater Song?
  6. Adm. Empoleon

    Adm. Empoleon

    Joined:
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    @ TheLegendKiller:

    I don't like to give up on Vacuum Wave; I like having priority on my Ape. I'll try CC over FC.
    I've been thinking about using LOStarmie over Jolteon. What do you think?
    Also, LOShaymin over Gengar looks... promising... I'll try it later on.
    I've tried that Uxie, and it's awesome. Just fucking awesome. It even managed to come back and set up more screens! I'm changing that.
    Huh?

    @McNutty: I hate missing a +2 Fire Blast because of hax. With SR on, I can turn 2HKO's into OHKO's easily.
    Yes, it's named after the song. i thought it was suitable, seeing as i never stop until i win or lose.
  7. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Hey I got your message, this team reminds me a lot of a Greek RMT by Stathakis (mostly because it has 5/6 of the same members, save Manaphy, who is banned and replaced by her closest relative). Nonetheless though, my suggestions are going to coincide with the rates of others very much.

    Firstly, and quickly, please run SR on your Azelf. What kind of offensive team doesn't have it? Really you could just jam it in over taunt, which isn't even that necessary in my opinion.

    Like others have said, unlike most teams, this team doesn't really "break through" Blissey and just gets walled by it. I think that SubSplit Gengar would be the best replacement, as he will really do a number on Blissey instead of just dying after about 2 seconds (SR + LO + possible sandstorm - recovery = dead gengar). SubSplit Gengar can still handle steels if he's behind a sub, and Gyarados isn't even a threat to the team to run Thunderbolt, because you have Suciune and Jolteon. Also you don't have a scarf, so you either have to have a Gyarados switch into you (unlikely) or you have to switch into it (Waterfall kills it, DD + waterfall kills it).

    That's all I got, great ho team.
  8. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Agreeing with others on how you can struggle with Blissey. Sure Ape can now CC but its your only check and Bliss can stall out your remaining special attackers out thus giving your opponent to counter attack, threatning a Jolteon sweep.

    Explosion on Gengar is a really quick fix for this although I agree with the others about SubSplit Gengar. I also don't like how threatened your team is by stuff like Shaymin or heck even Cm + Wish Jirachi. Jirachi can be very troublesome since it can set up on Empoleon and your team hates taking Boosted Thunderbolts anyway. To this end I suggest a Heatran over Starmie. To my mind Starmie is only getting overlapping coverage with both Empoleon and Suicune and Heatran can benfit you by taking Grass attacks and dealing with stuff like Jirachi pretty well.

    as far as a set for Heatran goes you could run a Heatrap set which trapps and KO's BLissey while also not fearing Shaymin if it runs Shuca. Heck it can also handle Flygon in a pinch. If Magma Storms accuricy annoys you then I guess you could run a LO tran instead with either Taunt or Explosion is again deal with Blissey better. However you lose out on checking shaymin unless you run a Shuca on Heatran.

    Tl;dr

    Explosion on Gengar or use SubSplit.
    Heatran over Starmie. I recomend the Heatrap set but if Magma Storm is a turn off a LO tran could be used or even Shuca Tran (to survive an Earthquake or Earth Power)

    hope I helped!

    Have a Nice Day!
  9. Meru

    Meru
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Isn't the point of Hyper Offense to use screens to propel stat-up sweepers who normally don't get to stat up because of their frailty? Not criticizing the team was just wondering in general.
  10. sharkz

    sharkz

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    Jun 17, 2010
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    Quick nitpick: You put Thunderbolt on Gengar twice. Pretty sure you meant HP Fire.
  11. ShinyAzelf

    ShinyAzelf
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

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    You're missing out 4 EVs for every single pokemon. Every EV helps ^_^

    -ShinyAzelf
  12. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    @ Adm. Empoleon: Yea sorry for the typo, what I meant to say was, +1 Offensive Suicune won't be OHKOed by Jolteon, while it will do huge amounts of damage with Surf. If Jolteon does kill Suicune it will be left with low amount of health, that it can't recover off. I suggest you use the Shaymin in my rate, because at least it has recovery in the form of rest that lets it combat Suicune, and recover of the damage from boosted Ice Beam

    ~Hope that clears things up
  13. LiverpoolFC

    LiverpoolFC

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    Jul 25, 2010
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    You're 6-0'd by Jolteon and you lack any real way to beat blissey.
    As previously stated, change Gengar into a sub-split variant

    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Timid ; 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    ~Substitute
    ~Pain Split
    ~Focus Blast
    ~Shadow Ball

    To resolve your Jolteon issue, I suggest you replace Suicune with Heatran. I would say Starmie, but Starmie's speed is necessary should you ever have to revenge kill something.

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Timid ; 120 Hp / 252 SpA / 136 Spe

    ~Fire Blast
    ~Earth Power
    ~Explosion
    ~Substitute

    This Heatran outspeeds 36 Spe base 100's, has reasonable bulk to take something like a thunderbolt from jolteon, and the rest of the EV's are thrown into SpA. Earth power ohko's Jolteon, Fire Blast hits shit hard, Sub lets you scout, and Explosion gives you another way to break through blissey.
  14. Faladran

    Faladran
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Hello,

    Cool team, and you've got just about everything ready for it to function great in hyper offensive. Other raters have made suggestions that pretty much cover all your problems, so I don't really have much to add.

    I will, however, support the use of SubSplit Gengar over your current set. I'll post it just for clarification:

    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spe/252 SpA
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split
    - Substitute

    On a team purely based on special attacks, it's great to have one more team member that can take out Blissey. Keep in mind that while you shouldn't necessarily switch in Gengar to any Blissey, using Substitute as your opponent switches theirs in will result in you beating them due to the combination of Substitute and Pain Split. Focus Blast deals about 37% - 43.7% to the standard Blissey, meaning that after a couple of Pain Splits, you can easily get it down to 2HKO or even OHKO range.


    Good luck with your team!
  15. Adm. Empoleon

    Adm. Empoleon

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    394
    Well, I hate having to rely on dual screens that much. I wanted for Suicune and Infernape to set up and sweep. Having 6 frail Pokemon who are deadly ONLY after they set up is kinda useless for me. Infernape is a threat all by its own, and is even deadlier after a Nasty Plot. As for Suicune, I wanted something to set up inside or outside of bulletproof glass. It's got natural bulk, a decent Sp. Atk stat, and pseudo BoltBeam. What's not to like?

    @ginganinja: I'll try a LOTran over LOStarmie and see what will happen. I'm not sure of this, because I rely on Starmie's speed to kill anything that comes in its way.

    @BARCA FTW (liverpool FC) : as i said, i needed something to set up inside or outside of bulletproof glass.

    @sharkz: Fixed.
  16. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
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    I ran a team similar to this. I personally ran an Azelf over Uxie, and no Dual Screen support, but I'll help as much as I can.

    Changes

    • Focus Blast on Infernape
    Now, I know, you hate the accuracy. I really think it'd be better if you just grit your teeth and dealt with using it though. At +2, it OHKOs everything that gives Infernape difficulty by running Close Combat, which is extremely helpful, seeing as your Empoleon is walled to death by bulky Water-types.

    +2 Infernape Focus Blast vs. Wish/Cleric Blissey: 94.4% - 111.2%
    +2 Infernape Focus Blast vs. Mix Swampert (lead): 112.2% - 131.9%
    +2 Infernape Focus Blast vs. ResTalk Suicune: 95% - 112.1%
    +2 Infernape Focus Blast vs. Curse Hippowdon: 121.4% - 142.9%
    +2 Infernape Focus Blast vs. Standard Wish Vaporeon: 101.3% - 119.4%

    As you can see, Focus Blast is very useful, especially compared to Close Combat, seeing as Close Combat can only KO Blissey, and forces you to split your EVs, something Focus Blast won't have you do. I also strongly advocate using Fire Blast over Flamethrower. Flamethrower can't OHKO things like Gyarados coming in at +2, while Fire Blast can.

    Suggested Set

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Ability: Blaze
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Nasty Plot
    [​IMG] - Fire Blast
    [​IMG] - Focus Blast
    [​IMG] - Vacuum Wave


    • Change Gengar from SubSplit to SubExplosion
    The main reason I'm suggesting this is the fact that you're using Dual Screen support. When those Screens are up, you're on a time limit, meaning you can't be wasting turns using Pain Split against Blissey, especially considering that if Blissey carries ONE Special Attack that's neutral towards Gengar, it's Substitute is broken. Explosion immediately gets rid of the threat of Blissey walling four members of your team (counted Gengar since, as I said, if it carries an attack, it wins).

    Suggested Set

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Hasty
    EVs: 40 Atk | 216 SpA | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Substitute
    [​IMG] - Shadow Ball
    [​IMG] - Focus Blast
    [​IMG] - Explosion

    That's about everything. Good team, and good luck.
  17. R.B.G.

    R.B.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    Just a quick rate and some notes.

    Running a specially based HO team is harder to do than the physical counterpart, so I give you props for it.

    What I noticed right away is that you're running three water types; Suicune, Empoleon, and Starmie. That means your team has a severe electric weakness, one of the more common attacking types in OU. A threat to your team that I can spot right away happens to be Charge Beam + Life Orb Jolteon, which also happens to be one of the more common special sweepers roaming OU. Running a set of Charge Beam, Thunderbolt, HP Ice, and Shadow Ball, Jolteon gets super-effective hits on everyone on this team bar Infernape, who's defenses aren't putting it much above its teammates in this category.

    For this electric problem, I suggest a (single) pokemon.

    A Choice Scarf Flygon with the set Outrage, U-Turn, Fire Blast, and Earthquake. I understand this is HO and all, but Flygon provides you with a scout, making it easier to beat up opposing teams, an electric immunity, and a ground immunity, as well as making your team less susceptible to Stealth Rock and other entry hazards of the sort. Also, opposing Flygon aren't as big a threat. While this Flygon defies the common rules of HO, and also doesn't make your team all special attackers, I believe it'd really help if you gave it a try.
  18. Adm. Empoleon

    Adm. Empoleon

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    @ R.B.G:
    I understand what you're saying, but how about switching Starmie for LOJolteon? Wouldn't that make sense? Also, who do you want me to take out to put a scarfed Flygon?

    @ Forte.EXE:
    I'll try that Infernape. I don't like those moves, but it's worth a try.
    As for Gengar, I don't like having to split its EVs. I understand your rate, but its not worth splitting Gengar's EVs for a single Pokemon. Plus, I can send Uxie out to lay out more screens (I just lay the DS and switch to Infernape.) if needed, and if he lives.
  19. Adm. Empoleon

    Adm. Empoleon

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    Bump. come on, is that all you guys got?
  20. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    At the glance, all i thought was, oh my god, you are walled soooo badly by Blissey, but with CC on Nape and SubPain split Gengar, no problem.

    The only real weakness I see is a Jolteon ripping through your team. Uxie is pretty safe with Light Screen but Empoleon, Starmie, Gengar, and Suicune all hate getting hit by Shadow Ball and T-Bolt.
    Let's examine this weakness. (all calcs are being used as Specs)
    T-Bolt to Empoleon does 133.1% - 157.8%
    T-Bolt to Starmie 181.6% - 214.6%
    T-Bolt to Suicune 90.6% - 106.9%. Even if you CM on switch, you still lose.
    Shadow Ball to Gengar 112.2% - 132.8%

    Hmmm.... You want to stick with being HO but not suck against Jolteon. Well the only suggestion I can think of is using Gyarados and Jolteon as an offensive core. Standard DD and if you wanna be different you can use that Sub set for Jolt on the Smog. Sounds fun to use. But whom to replace?
    When I see HO I think of fast sweepers like Infernape and Gyarados. I don't think of Suicune when I see HO. Then again, i don't have any experience with HO so what do i know? Doesn't matter whom you sub in.
    From looking at the type coverage you have a weakness to dark and ghost. Ghost is lacking as Ghost is only carried by Jolteon, Gengar, and Rotoms. Dark is mainly used on pursuit users who will give your team hell. I suggest switching Starmie out. Starmie may pack huge punches, but what good can it do if it's in checkmate by an enemy scizor? None.
    Only problem I see with Jolteon and Gyara, is you now have 3 Ground weak pokemon, but with 3 immunities, I think we're all good.
    From these changes, your general strategy can be SR, DS, and then U-turn off to Gyara where you set-up and sweep. The simple strategy has impressive results for an opening sweep and then switch when necessary.

    Wow... I feel hypritocal. I came in saying how it was such a good team, well made, and ended up changing two pokemon.
    Well best of luck!

    OMG 200 POST!!! WHOOO!
  21. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

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    Rating by request.

    Hi Adm. Empoleon, sorry it took me so long to rate this. I've been on vacation for the last week and a half or so, so I haven't been able to rate any teams. I'm going to rate all the requests I got while I was gone now though, and you're the first on the list!

    It's funny that you asked me to rate this, because I just rated a very similar team a little bit ago here. Before you changed Jolteon to Starmie and Azelf to Uxie, you two had the exact same lineup! That being said, I'm not quite sure why you opted to change Jolteon to Starmie. Ironically, by doing so, you made yourself very weak to opposing Jolteon, and fast Pokemon in general. The other big weakness I see for this team is the lack of stall breakers. Infernape is your best bet, but you aren't packing anything to take out Gyarados on that set, so there's no getting passed stall there. Blissey can wall the other 5/6 of your team to death, unless you get lucky with Gengar. To fix this problem, I would like to suggest a few things which I suggested in the other RMT. First of all, I think you should change your Gengar's moveset to Substitute, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Explosion. With that set, you will be blasting a huge hole in stall teams by taking out Blissey completely, allowing the rest of your team to set up with ease. Along with this change, I think it would overall do your team good by changing your Infernape set to a special mix ape. The exact set can be sound on the Infernape analysis on Smogon's Strategy Dex. With your current set, you don't really pack a lot of power in either side of the spectrum, and it is therefore not producing the amount of pressure it otherwise could be. The final change I would like to make to your team would be to replace Starmie with Choice Scarf Rotom-A. This doesn't have much to do with your stall weakness, but rather your weakness to any Dragon Dancer. Pokemon like Dragonite can easily Dragon Dance against Infernape and give your team major troubles. However, with Choice Scarf Rotom-A, you will be able to check all the Dragon Dancers and also have something to beat Pokemon who have a base spe of 115 or higher, which your team currently can't do. The exact set I'm recommending here is:

    Rotom-A @ Choice Scarf
    Timid, 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 HP
    Levitate
    -Thunderbolt
    -Shadow Ball
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Trick

    This should also help with your problems against stall as well, being able to lock a Pokemon in with Trick + Choice Scarf. Finally, I would like to recommend changing Life Orb on Suicune to Leftovers. I realize that you'll lose out on some power, but I think you'll find that Suicune will be surviving a lot more with Leftovers and be doing a considerable amount more work for your team. I don't mean to change the set to a bulky set, I mean just go offensive + Leftovers instead of LO. Anyways, I hope you found my suggestions useful, and again, sorry for the late rate. Good luck with this team in the future.

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