Contrary Doubles

[Whydon]

approved by The Immortal and The Eevee General, unfixable liked it

Contrary Doubles

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Welcome to Contrary Doubles! In this metagame, all moves/abilities that are associated with a Pokemon's stats have their effects reversed (so kinda like Contrary). For example, in this metagame, Speed Boost will lower your speed by 1 at the end of each turn, and Screech will raise your target's Defense by 2. Status effects, such as burn and paralysis, also have their effects reversed. Burn now multiplies your Attack by 1.5, and paralysis has your Speed quadrupled. However, status effects such as Poison retain their same effect, since it isn't associated with stats.

This change brings up many more possibilities for gameplay. You can now use moves such as Screech to raise your partner's Defense by 2 stages, or FeatherDance if you want to raise their Attack by 2. This opens up many more styles of gameplay and keeps this metagame from becoming "spam Draco Meteor".

In addition to moves and abilities being altered, items that directly affect stats are also being affected, meaning goodbye Eviolite and hello Macho Brace!

Here is a list of all changes made to Pokemon moves and abilities:
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=GmbEkfWY

Here is a list of all changes made to Pokemon items:

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Absorb Bulb
A consumable item. If the holder is hit by a water type Attack, Special Attack will go down by one stage.

Apicot Berry
Lowers Defense by one stage when HP is low.

Cell Battery
A consumable item. If the holder is hit by an electric type attack, Special Attack will go down by one stage.

Choice Band
Lowers Attack. Only one attack can be used.

Choice Scarf
Lowers Speed. Only one attack can be used.

Choice Specs
Lowers Special Attack. Only one attack can be used.

DeepSeaScale
Decreases Special Defense when held by Clamperl.

DeepSeaTooth
Decreases Special Attack when held by Clamperl.

Eviolite
A lumpy stone. When held, it lowers the Defense and Special Defense of a Pokemon that can still evolve.

Ganlon Berry
Lowers Defense when HP is low.

Liechi Berry
Lowers Attack when HP is low.

Quick Power
Lowers Speed when held by Ditto.

Light Ball
A Pokémon held item that doubles Speed. It makes Flying-type and levitating holders susceptible to Ground moves.

Light Ball
An item to be held by Pikachu. It lowers the Attack and Special Attack of the holder.

Metal Powder
Lowers Defense when held by Ditto.

Macho Brace
An item to be held by a Pokémon. It is a stiff and heavy brace that lowers strong growth but raises Speed.

Petaya Berry
Lowers Special Attack when HP is low.

Starf Berry
Lowers a random stat when HP is low.

Clauses:

• OHKO, Species, Evasion, Endless Battle, and Baton Pass clauses are in effect.
• Swagger clause is removed.
• Unban List: Aegislash, Mega-Blaziken, Shaymim-Sky, Genesect, Mega-Mawile (taken from the OU ban list)

Banlist:

• Salemencite is banned.
• Draco Meteor, Psycho Boost, V-Create, Leaf Storm, and Superpower are banned.
• Ubers not listed in the Unban list are banned.
• Archeops and Regigigas are banned.

Currently not playable anywhere (rip aqua ;_;)

I hope you all find this to be an interesting metagame. Thanks for reading!

 

[Whydon]

Reserved ^_^

 

[Snaquaza]

Well, since I helped runbabyrun on this one, an interesting thing is Contrary is this metagame. They can still use boosting moves like they did originally! Too bad there isn't any that is really good.

That said, I do think Overheat / Draco Meteor / Psycho Boost and such should be banned. I thought they were when we were talking they were just too powerful. That said, you should probably start with all Doubles clauses instead of OU clauses. They fit this metagame better by default and some unbans have been unbanned already.

Finally, Flame Orb is gonna be really strong now, but luckily Facade will ignore the boost from burn! It will still be great though. I also think Prankster Pokemon like Sableye and Banette Mega are going to be more valuable since they can burn or paralyze their partner for a huge boost. Also, some cool moves are viable now that weren't before. Imagine Memento'ing or Parting Shotting your partner for a boost, or even using FeatherDance to increase their attack!

 

[I like donkeys]

Oh my god! I've always wanted a metagame like this! Thanks runbabyrun and Snaquaza!
I agree with Snaq in the fact that Draco Meteor and related moves should be banned or at least remove their boosting effects and leave them the way they normally are. Even in a doubles format it will still probably be 'spam draco meteor' imo.

 

[Whydon]

Ok, all moves that will boost your own stats are now banned, EXCEPT Shell Smash, Curse, and Close Combat. Not too sure about Close Combat since you don't get any boosts in your Attack, although it might eventually be banned.

 

[noobcubed]

It seems like you want to ban pretty much all the things that are changed from the original doubles metagame, so... what's the point in this?

 

[Snaquaza]

Ok, all moves that will boost your own stats are now banned, EXCEPT Shell Smash, Curse, and Close Combat. Not too sure about Close Combat since you don't get any boosts in your Attack, although it might eventually be banned.

I'd start with banning Draco Meteor, Psycho Boost, Leaf Storm, OverHeat and SuperPower and see how ti goes from there. There are stuff like Hammer Arm which are probably good but not amazing. We'll see. Close Combat seems stronger than that though since you can quickly become hard to damage. However, we should discuss this later in convo / on PS in my opinion. It's easier than in the thread for policy decisions.

 

[DarkeKnight]

How does Unburden work in this meta? Do you get a speedboost while holding the item and lose it upon losing the item? Or do you just have less speed if you don't have an item?

 

[I like donkeys]

How does Unburden work in this meta? Do you get a speedboost while holding the item and lose it upon losing the item? Or do you just have less speed if you don't have an item?

Pretty sure your speed will halve when unburden is activated :3

EDIT:
I have some queries about the rules, how do healing and recoil moves fare? It says in the description "all moves/abilities that are associated with a Pokemon's stats have their effects reversed", healing and recoil moves are associated with a Pokemon's HP, does that mean recoil moves heal and heal moves, well, recoil? On a siimilar note, what about regenerator and weather related abilities like sand veil and ice body?
How will things like curse and heal pulse work? Will curse heal a ghost type by 50% but give residual recovery for the opponent? And does heal pulse straight up 2HKO everything?

mega launcher heal pulse Clawitzer coming thru :3

 

[EV]

It seems like you want to ban pretty much all the things that are changed from the original doubles metagame, so... what's the point in this?

Well, the +2 moves were obviously broken, but there are many other quirks that set this apart from Doubles.

In submissions I mentioned how Shadow Ball is unrivaled as a dependable Special Ghost attack but with the off chance of adding +1 to the target's Special Defense, meaning Ghost Pokemon may have to rely on Hex, a move that could see more use if people are going to purposefully burn themselves. This also applies to Earth Power, Flash Cannon, Energy Ball etc.

Spread moves with chances to status or affect stats like Heat Wave, Discharge, Icy Wind, and Electro Web will need to find replacements or settle with the risk they carry.

With Speed Boost crippled, we could see the return of Blaziken. Intimidate and Defiant, two staples on DOU teams, are useless now. Storm Drain can't abuse Surf spread.

A lot of the changes come from the absence of standard DOU strategies. This will be completely different.

 

[Whydon]

Pretty sure your speed will halve when unburden is activated :3

EDIT:
I have some queries about the rules, how do healing and recoil moves fare? It says in the description "all moves/abilities that are associated with a Pokemon's stats have their effects reversed", healing and recoil moves are associated with a Pokemon's HP, does that mean recoil moves heal and heal moves, well, recoil? On a siimilar note, what about regenerator and weather related abilities like sand veil and ice body?
How will things like curse and heal pulse work? Will curse heal a ghost type by 50% but give residual recovery for the opponent? And does heal pulse straight up 2HKO everything?

mega launcher heal pulse Clawitzer coming thru :3

We didn't take HP into account because nearly every move has to do with HP. Recovery moves still recover your health, Curse on Ghost types does the same effect, etc.

How does Unburden work in this meta? Do you get a speedboost while holding the item and lose it upon losing the item? Or do you just have less speed if you don't have an item?

If you use your held item you lose speed.


ALSO: I may have forgotten some moves in the pastebin, and I apologize if I forgot some major moves.

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

Someone mentioned Prankster, but wouldn't that make all status moves used by the user -1 priority? Or are priority and all priority moves unaffected?

 

[EV]

Someone mentioned Prankster, but wouldn't that make all status moves used by the user -1 priority? Or are priority and all priority moves unaffected?

The premise only affects moves, status, and abilities that alter stats. Priority isn't a stat so it isn't affected.

 

[Phione]

Welp, looks like Toxic is the only reliable, useful status now.

Fun fact: Crunch has a chance to raise the opponent's Defense, and it's the only powerful Dark attack some things get, for lack of Knock Off.

Also noteworthy: You can use Parting Shot on your teammate to boost their offenses and get a free switch.

 

[Esprite]

Swagger / Flatter: the bane of attackers.

Anyways, CC Megaluke is probably gonna be good (assuming doubles ban list)

 

[Lcass4919]

part of me feels like moody shouldnt be banned anymore, purely because its new mechanics lower a stat by 2, and only add 1 to a stat...so pretty much evasion even getting to +2 would cost a poke a massive amount of stat drop.

sash archen new meta.

something interesting to note is iron ball basically becomes a choice scarf(due to it affecting speed) and will probably be the "item of choice" possibly boosting EQ's viability in the process. very interesting meta.

 

[Esprite]

something interesting to note is iron ball basically becomes a choice scarf(due to it affecting speed) and will probably be the "item of choice" possibly boosting EQ's viability in the process. very interesting meta.

Heavy Metal Iron Ball Aggron using Heavy Slam. The power!

 

[DarkeKnight]

part of me feels like moody shouldnt be banned anymore, purely because its new mechanics lower a stat by 2, and only add 1 to a stat...so pretty much evasion even getting to +2 would cost a poke a massive amount of stat drop.

sash archen new meta.

something interesting to note is iron ball basically becomes a choice scarf(due to it affecting speed) and will probably be the "item of choice" possibly boosting EQ's viability in the process. very interesting meta.

I was under the impression that only attacks and abilities were effected.

If items are affected too, then RIP Eviolite and Assault Vest

 

[I like donkeys]

part of me feels like moody shouldnt be banned anymore, purely because its new mechanics lower a stat by 2, and only add 1 to a stat...so pretty much evasion even getting to +2 would cost a poke a massive amount of stat drop.

sash archen new meta.

something interesting to note is iron ball basically becomes a choice scarf(due to it affecting speed) and will probably be the "item of choice" possibly boosting EQ's viability in the process. very interesting meta.

does that mean all the useful choice items, life orb, expert belt, ass vest, etc become useless? If so, the only useful offensive items seem to flame orb and iron ball :/

 

[Phione]

Heavy Metal Iron Ball Aggron using Heavy Slam. The power!

Iron Ball does not increase weight.

Also, I think Life Orb should be safe because it increases damage, not Attack or Special Attack.

 

[EV]

With Swagger unbanned, the move is now a pseudo-Burn and confusion all in one with the downsides that there's no residual damage and the confusion damage will be small.

Can you target your teammate with Sticky Web?

Also, Weak Armor is a bit anti meta though probably won't help fast enough.

 

[Lcass4919]

With Swagger unbanned, the move is now a pseudo-Burn and confusion all in one with the downsides that there's no residual damage and the confusion damage will be small.

Can you target your teammate with Sticky Web?

Also, Weak Armor is a bit anti meta though probably won't help fast enough.

lmao one could in theory hit their partner with...idk..tail slap,rock blast, beat up or something and get them to +6 relatively quickly.

 

[Whydon]

Items aren't affected. Eviolite still retains its normal effects.

Also, will be posting a threat list later today. I've noticed some pretty viable mons which may do really well in this meta ^^

 

[Lcass4919]

Items aren't affected. Eviolite still retains its normal effects.

Also, will be posting a threat list later today. I've noticed some pretty viable mons which may do really well in this meta ^^

what exactly is your reasoning for items being excluded from this? i fail to see why status gets this treatment if items don't...

 

[Whydon]

what exactly is your reasoning for items being excluded from this? i fail to see why status gets this treatment if items don't...

Because very few items are able to actually become viable with this new switch. It would do more harm than good to the items, and would basically force Leftovers onto a bunch of things, which is really bland. There's no point to it.