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Cops and Robbers (Currently #19 on UU Ladder)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by WaterBomb, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. WaterBomb

    WaterBomb because exploding camels wasn't enough
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    I really couldn't think of a team name less lame than that, sorry! Anyhow, this is the first team that I've had tangible success with in UU, so I wanted to stick with it for a while and try to perfect it. I will first go through the teambuilding process, then analyze the team itself, and finally add a mini-threat list addressing the pokemon I have a little more difficulty dealing with. Let's get this rolling then:

    Stage 1 - Choosing the Combatants (open)
    Before I began the process, I needed to decide what style I would be leaning toward, and what I wanted to build the team around. Balanced has always been what I am most comfortable with, so I opted to stick with the familiar. With that being determined, I needed a solid combination of defensive cores, offensive cleaners and utilities. Since I tend to play more on the cautious and predictive side, I opted to select my defensive core first:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Empoleon and Zapdos make an excellent defensive combo, neatly covering each other's weaknesses and fulfilling wall roles on both the physical and special sides. Zapdos was to be the physical wall, as well as a pseudo hazer. Empoleon, in turn, focuses on the special side of things, spreads status in burn and toxic, and sets up rocks.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    My next task would be to select the offensive section of my team, pokemon that would be able to dole out the pain at any point in the match. I needed both a late game sweeper and a versatile softener, so I went with Crocburglar and Porygon Z. Crocburglar, with a scarf and Moxie, can come in near the end and clean up the pieces, whereas Porygon Z just leaves craters wherever it shoots. Specs Modest Porygon Z with a +1 download boost 2HKOs the standard Snorlax after rocks. Nice.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With my offense and defense established, I needed to round out my team with good support. Looking everything over, I figured I could use a rapid spinner as well as a defensive pokemon to check mienshao and heracross. This role was filled nicely by Intimidate Hitmontop, who could slow down physical sweepers, spread Toxic and spin away opposing hazards.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Five pokemon in, now to glue it all together. The final pokemon was actually suggested to me by Far Canal, and it seemed to function well in a variety of different potential situations. Rotom-H had a nice trick up its sleeve, which I will explain in the moveset portion.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After a while I noticed I had a weakness to Fighting type sweepers, so I opted to replace Porygon Z with an OTR Cofagrigus.


    Stage 2 - The Movesets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Empoleon @ Leftovers
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    Ability: Torrent
    252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Stealth Rock
    -Toxic

    ~Pretty straightforward set here. Empoleon acts as a dedicated Special wall for the team, with his EVs maxing out that bulk. With useful typing and good synergy with Zapdos, Empoleon almost always gets a chance to set up rocks and still be useful afterward. Toxic is a huge boon, but I've occasionally found myself wishing I had Roar. Scald is useful for spreading burn, and I find myself very rarely using Ice Beam. Would it be wise to switch out Ice Beam for something else, since I don't really use it? Suggestions here are welcome.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    Ability: Pressure
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
    -Thunderbolt
    -HP Ice
    -Roost
    -Roar
    ~Zapdos is surprisingly beefy on the physical side, and does a nice job of complimenting Empoleon. Even uninvested, Thunderbolt threatens to 2HKO frailer pokemon that don't resist it, and forms the trusty Electric+Ice combo with HP Ice. Roost keeps Zapdos healthy obviously and can help to PP Stall with pressure if it comes down to it. Roar for some reason is a surprise to most people who face this Zapdos, so I always get a kick out of switching it in on opposing Raikou, and watching them try to Sub and Calm Mind as I Roar them away. Considering HP Grass over HP Ice to hit swampert and rhyperior harder as HP Ice has kind of underwhelmed me. Is this a good idea?

    [​IMG]
    Crocburglar @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    Ability: Moxie
    252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
    -Crunch
    -Pursuit
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Miss
    ~Crocburglar is pretty much a total bad ass, having an incredibly easy time attaining Moxie boosts toward the end game. With excellent EdgeQuake coverage further augmented by STAB Crunch and Pursuit, he is dangerous to almost every pokemon in the tier. Pursuit is a nice surprise for silly Choice Band Victini as it tries to switch out when I bring Croc in to revenge. I'm still torn between Stone Miss and Superpower.

    [​IMG]
    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
    Ability: Mummy
    252 HP/4 Def/252 SpA
    0 Speed IVs
    -Shadow Ball
    -HP Fighting
    -Nasty Plot
    -Trick Room
    ~Cofagrigus came in to replace Porygon Z because, though I had been successful til now, my team had a weakness to fighting sweepers. Cofagrigus gives me a more reliable switch in to the likes of Mienshao and Ambipom, and typically gives me a free turn to set up Trick Room or Nasty Plot as they switch out. EVs give him enough bulk to weather some powerful attacks (like Scarf Darmanitan's Flare Blitz) and KO back.


    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop @ Leftovers
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    Ability: Intimidate
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    -Close Combat
    -Sucker Punch
    -Rapid Spin
    -Toxic
    ~Hitmontop has proven to be a wonderfully useful pokemon even outside of spinning, between Toxic and a Close Combat that is just strong enough to threaten things. Sucker Punch I opted for as a surprise for Chandelure and other ghosts, who will always switch into predicted Rapid Spins. When I Toxic them instead on the switch, they get nailed next by a surprise Sucker Punch when they try to attack me. Hitmontop usually takes ~70% from a Chandelure Fire Blast, but Sucker Punch puts it into critical health, meaning it either dies to the next Sucker Punch or it dies to rocks the next time it switches in anyway. Opted for Intimidate over Technician so I could nerf physical threats like Heracross and Mienshao.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Heat @ Flame Orb
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    Ability: Levitate
    252 Def/4 SpA/252 SpD
    -Trick
    -Pain Split
    -Discharge
    -Overheat
    ~Credit goes to Far Canal for suggesting this, and boy has it turned out to be useful. With all the Eviolite and Leftovers wielding pokemon roaming UU, Rotom gets plenty of chances to wreak havoc with Trick. Nothing enjoys getting a Flame Orb and subsequent burn, especially pokemon that rely heavily on their item like Gligar, Dusclops, Porygon2, and Heracross. Being able to burn physical threats like Mienshao and Rhyperior is also a plus. Outside of its Trickery, Rotom runs max EVs in both defenses to make it a pretty solid spot-wall on both sides of the spectrum. Its unique typing provides it nice resistance to BoltBeam, as well as making it a good check to pokemon like Raikou and Victini. Whenever I see a Victini on the opposing team, I always lead with Rotom. Choice Band Victini takes Rotom down to about 30% health, only to have it almost completely restored by Pain Split. Combined with the stat drops and reduced HP from Pain Split, Victini after one turn gets dangerously close to KO range from Rotom's Discharge, and is slower too (unless scarfed). This tactic has been surprisingly effective so far, and is very much unexpected.


    Stage 3 - Threat List (open)
    I will complete this section tomorrow, as I am too tired right now and need sleep. Off the top of my head I know I struggle a little against Mienshao, Cofagrigus, Umbreon, and Virizion.


    Well, that's all for now. Rate away!

    UPDATE: I've replaced Porygon-Z with OTR Cofagrigus. Team is currently 19th on UU ladder
  2. hilarious

    hilarious

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    Your team looks a little unusual and while it doesn't have any glaring weaknesses as a whole I doubt it can either defend properly from UU's strong attackers or make any sort of organized attack.

    The problem I think is that your offense is too paltry and too slow for you to make any sort of impact on an offensive team who can use natural resistances and speed to survive your attack. Your Krookodile is really really weak (as all are really) it doesn't even get an Adamant nature boost. Your Cofagrigus is taking far too long to get reliable sweeps since it needs two turns to set up meanwhile in the tier there are very hard counters to Cofagrigus like Togekiss and Honchkrow.

    Meanwhile your Rotom-H is running an incredibly inefficient EV set if you want to invest in defenses because of its low HP, maxing out HP should be your first priority and then investing in defenses but I think Rotom-H as a whole is a mistake since it does nothing but take a couple fires moves before dying. Hitmontop is only a mediocre wall and dies to repeated attacks easily especially if it is not only trying to defend but trying to pull off a spin as well.

    I suggest you make your Zapdos an offensive set with 252 SpA and 252 Spe with a Life Orb and using Heat Wave over Roost. I also suggest you change HP Ice to HP Grass so you do far more damage to Rhyperior and Swampert, possible OHKOs, and you can deny your opponent Stealth Rocks as they rarely switch out of Zapdos.

    Since you have a strong lure against those two now Rotom-H doesn't need to be on your team and instead you can just add Offensive Suicune or Roar CM Suicune. Both hit hard after a single boost being able to OHKO basically everything offensive since Water gives you great neutral coverage. Also Suicune is far bulkier than Rotom-H ever hoped to be so you have a much better check to Fire-pokemon such as Darmanitan which you previously had no good switch in to (Rock Slide rolls over Rotom-H).

    If you find these suggestions helpful then I might make more.
  3. WaterBomb

    WaterBomb because exploding camels wasn't enough
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    So, to sum up your suggestions:

    -Change Zapdos to Offensive Life Orb with Thunderbolt/HP Grass/Heat Wave/Roar
    -Replace Rotom-H with either offensive or CM/Roar Suicune

    Is that it? Just so you're aware, Hitmontop is not intended to be a full time wall. Hitmontop's main job is to Intimidate physical sweepers to nerf them so my other physical walls (zapdos, rotom) can do their job better. Speaking of Rotom, as I explained in the moveset section, Rotom's EVs are intended to maximize the damage dealt by Pain Split, not to make it an outright wall. By leaving HP uninvested and maxing out both defenses, he becomes bulkier on both sides while still chewing up a great deal of the opponent's HP with Pain Split. Now, if I take your suggestion and switch Rotom out for Suicune, as well as changing Zapdos to offensive, would that not make my team incredibly weak to SubCM Raikou? I just want to clarify how you would expect me to handle that threat before I make any changes to the team.
  4. hilarious

    hilarious

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    i can assure you the defenses lost by not investing in HP hurts more than pain split helps. not to mention you might not even get leftovers when you trick which further cuts down on your bulk. And seeing as rotom-h is your only fire resist it really should have bulk but i'm suggesting suicune still over him as suicune can give you an other shot at winning (rotom-h isn't going to give you any major comebacks but suicune will) as well as being far bulkier.



    Krookodile can always revenge raikou which incidentally could still almost completely crush you if you used your current team if it was the last Pokemon.

    and no I meant to say you should have heat wave over roar my bad. the best Roar does for you is phaze out a raikou and make it lose its sub. Big deal next time it would just set up on your rotom-h instead or wait until your zapdos is slightly weakened because after sr zapdos finds it difficult to take HP ice from Raikou.

    And if you dont use Ice Beam on Empoleon then you might as well use Roar over it if Raikou gets cocky with sub.

    In any case if you don't like what i am typing I strongly suggest you to make your team more offensive since by doing that you can check more threats and have more opportunities to wins.
  5. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Yeah I sort of agree with hilarious, this team isn't bad considering you're using a lot of rare sets, but I'm a bit iffy about its effectiveness... I don't think that would be too difficult to solve though, but this can be done in a variety of ways so I guess I will give you just some general advice so you can choose and such. I also agree with hilarious's suggestion of running offensive Zapdos, as it just fits the team better and makes it more threatening to other teams. It definitely makes you SubCM Raikou weak though, but that's something you could easily solve by replacing Rotom-H (which seems the most expendable member of the team) with something like Offensive Snorlax (Choice Band or Leftovers + 4 Attacks). Snorlax would also help your team a lot offensively, luring some Krookodile counters such as Hitmontop or Bronzong and weakening them. There also other ways of solving the problem with SubCM Raikou (such as using Rhyperior and Blastoise instead of Empoleon and Hitmontop) but they would require changing too much I think...
  6. WaterBomb

    WaterBomb because exploding camels wasn't enough
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    Ok, I see what y'all are saying now. Thanks for the extra clarity, Destiny. It's a shame though, I've really been in love with my Rotom and had a lot of fun using it. Isn't there any way I can keep it? :(

    So I guess I'll test out the offensive zapdos and switch Rotom out for Snorlax, but I feel like that would make Mienshao absolutely tear through my team. HJK would 2HKO every single team member I have with the exception of Cofagrigus. Given the popularity of it, what suggestions do you have to check him?

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