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Cosmic Bodies of Gas [OU Sun]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by alphatron, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    After forever and a century, I think I've done the best I possibly could with my sun teams. For now anyway, until some new ideas come to me. For the time being, I will be taking a break from PO and focus on some other stuff. But in the mean time, why not post my most successful team? Criticize as much as possible and don't forget to add your comments and ratings to your posts!




    Ninetales (F) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Rest​


    My #1 favorite pokemon since first generation, now with an excuse for me to use it in OU! On my past teams, I experimented with several sets, seeing what they worked against and what they fell short against. Overheat/Powerswap worked wonders in letting my other team members set up, but usually Ninetales was crippled in the process. Balloon was a great item for landing those free switch ins on gliscor and excadrill and is an item that I'm still considering to be honest. Leftovers accomplished less than balloon did. After avoiding the set for an eternity, I decided to try out chesto rest. Oh boy, does it add to Ninetales' survival. I used to run will-o-wisp over toxic, but toxic is more useful for crippling Toed and Hippo. T-tar's only set is the specially bulky mixed one, so I don't have to worry about pursuit too much. HP fighting is not for T-tar, believe it or not. It's for heatran, who would otherwise wall the entire moveset. And even then, it's only purpose to to discourage him from setting up free subs. I may add 8 more SpA Evs in order to have a near guaranteed shot at breaking offensive heatran's subs, dealing 24% minimum to him.


    Slowbro (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Regeneration
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    -Thunder Wave​


    Since the beginning of fifth generation, I have declared that Slowbro will no longer be referred to as such. From this moment on, he shall be referred to as SlowPRO! Seriously, Slowbro is fantastic. Bulky enough to handle Garchomp and friends. Conveniently, a counter to SD Blaziken and I am happy to have learned this back when I first began using Blaze and thought he was invincible. Regeneration goes a long way in keeping himself healthy enough to tandle with enemy threats. Under the sun, he gets dual STAB in psychic and flamethrower. Ice beam is for Garchomp and Gliscor. Although psychic was a lackluster STAB option last gen, this gen it helps for getting around the rise of fighting types (and what else can I hit enemy Blaziken with? Surf?) Thunder Wave is for utility, but I rarely end up using it. At this point, I'm considering replacing it for focus blast or something along those lines, but it sometimes helps cripple enemy threats who would give me trouble with the weather down, such as garchomp, landorus, excadri-


    Yeah, thunder wave is probably getting replaced. If you're wondering, the expert belt was originally to smack specially bulky mixtar even harder on the switch in when I used to use focus blast. It also helps for when Slowbro baits Ferrothorn in, as without the sun, I cannot ohko specially bulky ones 100% of the time. Doesn't matter since Slowbro outspeeds ferro anyway.


    Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Blaze Kick
    - Swords Dance
    - Hi Jump Kick
    -Stone Edge​


    One of the teams key sweepers. Simple SD Blaziken as far as they go. I slapped on stone edge a while back for bulky dragonite and bulky gyarados, who were more popular at the time and gave me trouble. In the sun, +2 Blaze kick ohkos Jellicient (with hazard support), Gliscor, and Tentacruel. Hi Jump Kick is for everything else, such as lati@s, etc. Not sure what else to change, since this set seems to be the most reliable one for me as far as things go.


    Sawsbuck (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Jump Kick
    - Wood Horn
    - Aromatherapy
    -Double-Edge​


    I only recently decided to try this guy out. He's great. Jump Kick hits T-tar and Heatran. Wood Horn is STAB that hits hard and recovers off LO damage easily. Double Edge is for killing offensive dragons and smashing holes in Gliscor on the switch before I switch out. The set is walled by Chandelure, but I'm playing Wifi tier, so that's a rarity. Gengar is problematic, but the rest of my team does well against him. Aromatherapy is for waking Ninetales up if I've already used the chesto berry, and for shrugging off status that may plague the rest of my teammates at times, or Sawsbuck himself. I use it pretty often since Thunderos is so popular.



    Heatran (M) @ Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    - Flame Charge
    -Stealth Rock​


    A new team member, sadly replacing the forretress that was previously here. He's my SR user, my flash fire absorber, and my cleaner rolled up into one. After a flame charge, what usually switched in to check Heatran is screwed. The balloon goes a long way in making sure he gets in that flame charge to begin with, or having heatran switch in on certain enemies. Fire Blast is monstrous under the sun, 3HKOing Bold max hp Blissey and even bulky waters. Earth power is for other heatran and fire types. The speed is so that I outspeed all base 130's after a flame charge, as well as adamant blaziken after a +1 in case he uses protect. I might just max out on speed for other heatran though.


    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 SAtk / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Doom Desire
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt​


    My answer to absolutely everything in this metagame that my team may be weak to. Originally used as a desperate answer to latios rampaging everywhere in the early suspect stages, he's gone above and beyond being a situational counter. This guy is my special wall, passes wishes to the rest of my team, sets up with CM if need be, and smashes through enemy teams with thunderbolt and doom desire. Doom Desire is something more people need to use.



    Jirachi used Doom Desire!
    Jirachi chose Doom Desire as its destiny!


    Ferrothorn used leech seed!
    Jirachi was seeded!
    The sunlight is strong.


    Alphatron called Jirachi back!
    Alphatron sent out Heatran!
    Pointed stones dug into Heatran


    Ferrothorn used spikes!


    Opponent called ferrothorn back!
    Opponent sent out Tyranitar!
    Tyranitar's sand stream whipped up a sandstorm!


    Heatran used flame charge!
    It's not very effective...
    Tyranitar lost 4% of his health
    The foe's tyranitar took the doom desire attack!


    Always useful. Since steel is resisted by water and bulky waters are everywhere, thunderbolt is useful for picking them off or forcing them to switch out while something else takes the doom desire. At one point, I had considered investing in physical bulk while Jirachi CM's up. But then I wind up not being able to set up on as many special attacks. Jirachi's spot on this team is rooted. He will never leave as I have tried other special tanks that can do what he can. There is no better. Unless an event Jirachi is released with the levitate ability.


    What I am already considering


    Powerwhip Victreebel or Venusaur: Outside of Heatran and Jirachi, my team is sort of weak to toxic spikes. These guys absorb them while contributing to the team. Without any boosts and under the sun, Venusaur has trouble with Tyranitar and won't like trading blows with him. Victreebel has a chance to ohko with power whip, but eh...


    Virizion and Escavelier/Scizor: The team already hates on sand/rain teams. While this would require some serious rebuilding, I want to hate on other weather even more.


    A spinner: Forry was replaced since I noticed that I didn't need a spinner that much after all once I switched to Chesto Rest. A defensive spinner would help out in case hazards get out of hand, but the team is too offensive to allow that.


    Arcanine or Conkeldurr: I seriously want to squeeze priority in there somewhere. I really do. Conkeldurr covers many threats that would threaten sun teams all around, while arcanine bashes through the likes of Tyranitar and Heatran and has extreme speed.


    Threat list


    Offensive threats


    Reuniclus: Calm mind sets were annoying and I used to have serious trouble with trick room variants before I added Jirachi. Now, that is no longer the case. Jirachi walls and sets up on TR sets. Jirachi beats Cm sets due to being 4x resistant to psyshock and beating it down through a combination of doom desire and thunderbolt. Parahax helps out here. If he uses trick though and then starts setting up, I'm screwed. Fortunately, that's rare.

    Latios: Walled entirely by Jirachi outside of trick.

    Tornadus: This thing a friggin monster. But Jirachi walls his common movesets and turns him into set up fodder.

    Excadrill: Not a big deal, but balloon on Ninetales would work in making him even easier to handle. Balloon on Heatran currently helps in scaring him out and Heatran can take a rock slide barring a flinch.


    Venusaur: Brother! As much as I've used forry before, Venusaur was the final reason to add Heatran to my team. If Sawsbuck isn't already dead, then I revenge with him. Otherwise, I use Heatran to take him on.

    Sawsbuck: Sun has been getting more popular recently, but I seldom see him. Jirachi takes on the ones without nature power. Heatran takes on the ones that do have it by avoiding it with a balloon. I rage at the ones that carry both.

    Heatran: Specifically, substitute balloon sets. Usually, I try to break the balloon and then I use Sawsbuck or my own Heatran to ohko him. I don't like sacrificing something against the substitute, but I don't have any other options. If the sun isn't up, then Jirachi can tangle with him after two Calm Minds.

    Blaziken: Despite the existence of Slowbro on my team, this thing is a huge pain in the ass. Swords Dance sets are handled by Slowbro, or if I predict the Sword's Dance, Sawsbuck. Mixed sets? I've only seen and lost to mixed blaziken a grand total of one time. Thankfully, I don't see him too often.

    Terakion: Hits like a truck. Slowbro takes on Sword's Dance/Rock Polish sets and can take on Choice Band sets outside of switching in on X-scissor.

    Conkeldurr: Switch to Slowbro. Laugh as he fires off a pathetic base 50 power payback. OHKO with Psychic.

    Landorus: Slowbro revenges Rock Polish/Sd sets and kills him off if I predict either move. Choice band/Choice scarf sets are taken care of rather easily. They aren't as big a deal.

    Thunderos: Jirachi makes minced meat of LO sets and sets up Calm Minds. Nasty Plot sets? I have to let something die, switch to Ninetales, and then take him out with something else on the team.

    Virizion: If sun isn't up, then switch to Ninetales immediately, who can still dent him with fire blast even after a +1. Or for a less risky approach, just beat him down with Jirachi.

    Scizor: Doesn't bother me. Most sets are the specially bulky SD Scizors who bother me even less.

    Deoxys-S: Ugh. Blaziken outspeeds at +2, Jirachi sets up on him. Sawsbuck either outspeeds or revenges. I hate that I can't stop him from setting up screens or spikes/SR though, especially if he randomly decides to carry a coverage move.

    Volcorona: Kill him with Heatran before he gets out of hand. Outspeed with Sawsbuck or Blaziken after a +2. Ninetales can toxic him before he sets up. Chesto Rest variants are rare. I would know, because I actually use it.

    Dragonite: Set up SR. Smash into him repeatedly if he's bulky. More offensive sets are making me consider hp ice on heatran again.

    Garchomp: He likes to come in on Jirachi when I use doom desire, so switching to heatran if I still have my balloon allows me to take him on.

    Gyarados: My reaction? A big hearty, tearful laugh. How the mighty have fallen.

    Gengar: Without trick, Jirachi sets up on him.

    Sigilyph: Jirachi sets up on him and, 4x resists stored power, and beats him out in the CM war.

    Chandelure: Rare, but ALWAYS seems to pop up if I decide to run protect or anything else in place of stone edge on Blaziken. Not a big deal as heatran can handle him easily. CM variants are also outmuscled be Heatran.


    Gorebyss: Never lost to him when running sun. I saw him every match for about a week, but he seems to have dissapeared. In any case, he was usually revenged by Sawsbuck or just killed off by Jirachi. I've never actually let him baton pass.


    Defensive threats


    None! The best thing about running a sun team is that they are impossible to conventionally wall.


    Supportive threats


    Wobbufett: Depends on what he comes in on. If it's anything aside from Slowbro, then I'm not bothered too much. All of my team members have ways to conveniently get around him.

    Tyranitar: I place him here because he doesn't run offensive sets anymore. Just specially bulky mixed sets with fire blast. Jirachi sets up on such sets. Ninetales toxics him on the switch and then switches out, greeting him with hp fighting every time he decides to switch in from that point on. Putting focus blast on Slowbro (who can take a crunch) will help to make my team even less weak to him

    Politoed: Has recently become more of a pain than Tyranitar. Specs sets aren't exactly walled by anything I carry, scarf sets are why I have actually begun to lead with Ninetales vs. rain team (activates sun since I'm slower). Bulky sets are made into set up fodder for Jirachi, who then smashes through the rest of said rain team.

    Hippodown: Not a big deal. I usually see him switching in on Blaziken after a swords dance in order to wall him or ohko with Earthquake. Blaziken ohko's him back though, so that never actually happens.

    Abomasnow: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! AH HA!

    Whimsicott: Annoying, but not much more than that. I usually send in Sawsbuck to get paralyzed, and then aromatherapy as he switches out.

    Murkrow: The only team member who actually dies to the perish trap set is Sawsbuck. Not a big deal otherwise and I don't see him enough.
  2. Benlisted

    Benlisted

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,058
    A very nice team, certainly better than mine was when I posted it! Great showcase of the somewhat rare slowbro and the doom desire abuse sets on slowbro, supporting an excellent sun core. Can't criticise the sun elements much, especially not the evs! SR should stay on tran to prevent your opponent switching freely, or at least make them to exert themselves to get rid of it.

    On slowbro, over t-wave try yawn if legal? It and doom desire may synergise reasonably well, and the added status wouldn't hurt, possibly netting you setup for blaz. Aside from that, I can't really think of anything off the top of my head as this is being typed on my phone.

    Can't see anything to fix really otherwise, will take another look when am on a real pc.
  3. guddagudda

    guddagudda

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Slowbro doesn't have "dual STAB" with Psychic and Flamethrower as you mistakenly suggest in your description, being a bulky Water. Heatran 3HKO'ing Blissey with Fire Blast isn't even with mentioning IMO, as Blissey has a reliable recovery move and can cripple Heatran with a T-wave before much can be done to it in the first place. I'd consider running Dragon Pulse over Flame Charge on Heatran, unless you feel that all the dragons this gen are effectively handled by your Doomrachi and Slowbro—which I seriously doubt. I've used a Jirachi that was fairly similar to the one you use, though I used it without CM and Tbolt. Seems like a nice set. You really don't have an answer to Chandelure outside of Slowbro or Blaziken, with the former being weak to STAB Shadow Ball and the latter being decidedly frail.
  4. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. fluffy bird
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I think he means that because of Sun, fire type moves get boosted 1.5, giving it "STAB" technically.
  5. guddagudda

    guddagudda

    Joined:
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    STAB =/= 1.5 boost, STAB = same-type attack bonus
    call it SWAB (same-weather attack bonus) :P
  6. Benlisted

    Benlisted

    Joined:
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    Dragons are dealt with pretty well by Sawsbuck - who OHKOs Latios with SR, and Tran - who with Balloon intact utterly walls many of them (especially considering their unwillingness to spam Outrage due to his having 2 Steels), as well as Slowbro and Doomrachi, so he has them covered pretty well. Chandy is fortunately rare, so it usually ins't necessary to run too many things to beat him.

    Anyway, checked and Bro does learn Yawn so give that a whirl, aside from that it's CM or Slack Off as viable other options really if you don't want FB.

    I really want you to be able to get rid of SR on Tran, but there's nowhere else it could go and you need it to prevent your opponent switching freely. On Blaz perhaps try Protect again since it seems like you get most of your OHKOs without it, and your team pretty much laughs at Dos and Nite. This may also give you a reasonably solid way to beat Tran without Tales having to HP Fight it to death, so you may gain an extra moveslot on her to play with.

    Really can't think of any other fixes, so hopefully these will give you something to mess around with.
  7. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    The immediate thing I notice is that you don't have a TRUE ground resist/immunity. BalloonTran isn't going to continously have his Balloon in tact and Sawsbuck can't continously take stuff like ScarfChomp EQ. If you want my opinion Slowbro isn't doing much resistant wise. It is for that reason I suggest you change Slowbro to a Gliscor. The only important thing Slowbro is resisting is Fighting movese, which Gliscor inevitably does better. I suggest you at least give it a try before judging it.

    Show Hide


    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Taunt
    - Facade
    - Earthquake



    GL
  8. aussieman000

    aussieman000

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    Not sure I like Ninetales' spread here. Max speed is pointless when you miss out on the tie with base 100s, and can't take on anything that hovers just under that tier without heavy SpA investment. A spread of 252 HP / 36 SpA / 220 Spe maximises bulk & gives you enough power to always break offensive Heatran's Substitutes. The speed is also enough to outrun all base 95s ensuring a clean 2HKO on offensive Gliscor and the ability to revenge Timid Lucario/Jolly Excadrill.
  9. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
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    Kept trying to respond to the posts in this topic but my wii internet kept crashing on me. Thanks for the replies guys! And "SWAB". Heh, I like the sound of that.

    Replacing thunder wave for yawn on Slowbro is the first thing I'm going to try. Forcing switches and making things easier for Blaziken to set up can never be a bad thing. It won't exactly work with doom desire, since the earliest Slowbro can use yawn is the same turn in which DD hits the opponent, but still.

    Hp Ice on Heatran is truly desired (dragon pulse on hits that lati twins and haxorus harder). But stealth rock is needed and flame charge goes a long way in keeping heatran from being revenged. I suppose I could give it a shot though. The teram being bothered by Chandelure doesn't worry me too much, as heatran can out muscle it. That and its rare.

    Gliscor is something I've always wanted to fit it on most of my sun teams, but didn't have the room for. One of the main reasons Slowbro is here is so that I have a better shot at handling Blaziken. Gliscor...cannot do this. He also makes my team more rain weak and cannot handle Bulk Up Roob as well as Slwobro can. I will still give him a shot though when I experiment in my future matches with any changes I make to this team. I may also use him as my SR pokemon, freeing up a slot on Heatran.

    Edit: I would rather make Ninetale's hp sit at an odd number so that I can switch into SR more often. You're right about not being able to tie with other base 100s though so I'll take your EV spread there.

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