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Cottonee In NU?

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by TehRaquaza2094, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. TehRaquaza2094

    TehRaquaza2094

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Ok so I basically had this really weird idea to run a Cottonee in NU so I decided to build a team around it. Turns out it's more or less an NU sun team. First off, here's a battle showcasing it, then I'll be breaking down the team in a nutshell so you guys can see how I can make it better
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDfyBrPiN5o

    [​IMG]

    The Sun Starter
    Cottonee (Fuck You <3) Prankster
    Heat Rock
    Impish Nature
    252 HP, 252 Def 4 SpDef
    Leech Seed
    Stun Spore
    Sunny Day
    U-Turn

    Why I chose it: Basically because I wanted to try Cottonee in NU. Reasons for the moves chosen is that stun spore helps overall team support. Leech seed to gain some health back, u-turn for momentum, and sunny day paired with heat rock for 8 turn sun

    [​IMG]

    The Physical Sun Sweeper
    Sawsbuck (Antlers) Chlorophyll
    Life Orb
    Adamant
    252 atk 4 spdef 252 spe
    Swords Dance
    Horn Leech
    Nature Power
    Jump Kick

    Why: Sawsbuck is an absolute monster under the sun in NU, so naturally he was a natural physical attacker to fit on this team. Not to mention, he has some fairly good coverage as well and can take on nearly anything after one swords dance boost. The horn leech is an idea to gain back some health while trying to do some damage. it's also a fairly nice STAB move for recovery. Nature Power is basically an earthquake with double PP. Jump Kick for other normal types and some pesky dark types.

    [​IMG]

    The Special Sun Hitter/revenge killer
    Charizard (I'm Hated) Solar Power
    Choice Scarf
    Timid Nature
    4 HP, 252 sp atk 252 spe
    Hidden Power Grass
    Fire Blast
    Air Slash
    Focus Blast

    Why: Charizard is one of those underrated Fire types in NU due to his 4x weakness to SR. With Emboar out of the way, he's now a bit more viable to choose as a fire type. Choice scarf and timid to outspeed a lot of things including base 100s with a neutral speed nature. This Charizard is less designed to kill everything, and more designed to be a late game clean up crew and revenge killer. Hidden Power grass over Solarbeam because only having one sun set up makes it difficult to always have the sun up for solarbeam.

    [​IMG]
    The Rapid Spinner/Psuedo phaser
    Wartortle (TMNT) Torrent
    Eviolite
    Calm
    252 hp 4 def 252 spdef
    scald
    yawn
    toxic
    rapid spin

    Why: Can't rely on the sun forever, plus this team has a major SR weakness for Charizard and I need to make sure he doesn't lose too much health in the early game. Wartortle also makes a nice specially defensive absorber in addition to psuedo phasing to combine with Stealth Rocks. Toxic is there if I need a wall Badly Poisoned. Scald to cripple physical attackers.

    [​IMG]
    The Stealth Rocker
    Miltank (Moo Bitch) Thick Fat
    Leftovers
    Impish
    252 HP 4 atk 252 def
    Stealth Rock
    Heal Bell
    Milk Drink
    Body Slam

    Why: Miltank makes such a good annoying physically bulky stealth rocker. The worst of it all is milk drink heal bell combo can be exceptionally annoying if anyone tries to hinder Miltank. Body Slam to keep the parahax going with this team. Thick fat also pairs nicely to take fire and ice moves, even if the fire moves are in the sun.

    [​IMG]
    The Wish Passer
    Gardevoir (My Whore) Trace
    leftovers
    Calm
    252 hp 4 spatk 252 spdef
    Wish
    Protect
    will-o-wisp
    Psychic

    Why: Every good team needs a wish passer, especially with the NU metagame either being dreadfully slow, or exceptionally fast. Gardevoir is a fantastic wish passer, and wish protect shenanigans can eventually stall out a wall if needed. Will-o-wisp because of needing to more or less weaken physical attackers.

    Threats that come to mind are Swellow just due to the fact that guts Brave Bird is a huge threat. As of this moment I can not think of any other key threats to the team. Some analysis would be welcome.
  2. ium

    ium rowan is an ape
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    742
    cottonee / sawsbuck / choice scarf charizard / wartortle / def miltank / sdef gardevoir

    normal- and flying-types are problematic to your team considering there is nothing that resists that type; nothing will be able to take repeated attacks. your team is also slightly weak to musharna. the only thing that can break through it is charizard, but it absolutely needs the sun and needs to be locked into fire blast and not any other move. any competent team will be able to keep charizard in check (which is rather easy to do since it's choiced) so that their musharna can break through.

    the first thing i want to change is cottonee. with heat rock, it has shitty defenses and it really doesn't offer anything different than volbeat other than leech seed. volbeat should be used instead because it has slightly better bulk and can do the same things but even better (thunder wave instead of relying on a shaky 75% stun spore). it should also be utilizing encore so that stuff like musharna don't set up for free.

    now, the other issue here is that your team only has one sunny day user. that's a really poor choice for a sun team considering that your strategy falls apart once there's nothing left to set it up. you need another sunny day user, and i think regirock over miltank is the best choice here. it still has stealth rock, but it also provides sunny day and an important normal- and flying-type resistance that your team really wants. regirock will be able to keep stuff like swellow and braviary at bay, while it can take on many normal-types, even if they have coverage moves, if at decent health.

    the next set of changes are just set fixes:

    you really want to be taking advantage of eight turns of sun, so having a choice item is undesirable since you may be switching out often and wasting turns. being choiced also makes it much easier for charizard to be worn down by stealth rock. charizard can make great use of leftovers on perhaps a subroost set. fire/grass is all the coverage you need, especially since fire blast in the sun will hit even resistant pokemon hard. using a set like this also prolongs charizard's life since it won't have to switch often and will have chances to heal itself at times.

    sawsbuck does not need jump kick either. use double-edge instead as an extremely powerful stab move. the reason why jump kick is redundant is because normal/grass is decent neutral coverage already. they only have huge problems with steel-types, which nature power handles readily.

    this last fix is rather minor, but i think double status on wartortle is useless. use haze instead of yawn so that opponents can't take full advantage of wartortle with some setup sweeper like substitute + bulk up braviary or calm mind musharna.

    summary:
    volbeat cottonee / double-edge jump kick sawsbuck / subroost leftovers choice scarf charizard / haze yawn wartortle / regirock def miltank / sdef gardevoir


    sets (open)
    [​IMG] Volbeat (M) @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Encore
    - Thunder Wave
    - U-turn

    [​IMG] Regirock @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Drain Punch

    [​IMG] Charizard @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]


    i just want to let you know that while i did suggest ways to help improve your team, it's is still lacking some focus. sun teams are usually supposed to be offensive in nature so that they can make the best use of eight, short sun turns as they possibly can. using a defensive core doesn't really accomplish that. hopefully another rater can help bring it into better focus, but these suggestions should help out against the main problems.
  3. BattleStar

    BattleStar

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    637
    Hi TehRaquaza2094,

    Nice team you have here. It's actually nice seeing a weather team here in NU as compared to the excess of weather teams in OU xD. Anyways this is a fairly well built team but we all know there is room for improvement!

    One of the first things I notice about your team is it has a huge weakness to ghost and to name one specifically almost all variants of Haunter. Haunter is able to wall or hit super effectively five out of six of your teams mates! Charizard is really the only one who posses the biggest threat to Haunter. However Haunter can spinblock Wartortle and prevent stealth rocks from being removed. Which is a big problem for Charizard, which already decrease the the threat it has. Especially if Haunter is running any type of Subset; whether it be SubDisable or just Sub+ 3 attacks (in which it might have Thunderbolt that causes even more nightmares for Wartortle and Charizard). Milktank is completely walled and can be worn down with Sludge Bomb. I suggest replacing Milktank with Probopass who right nicely with your team considering it has wish support.

    Probopass Set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Probopass@Leftovers
    252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
    Bold
    Sturdy
    -Stealth Rocks
    -Volt Switch
    - Power Gem
    - Thunder Wave


    Probopass really synergies well with your team on account of its walling key threats, wide rake of resistances, and wish support. Many of the water attacks that he fears are even further more weakened by Sun. He has Volt Switch which is always appreciate on move reliant weather teams, which also lets him weaken key water and flying threats. Bold nature is here to let him survive a wide range of physical moves. He can counter Bravairy and Swellow much easier too. Thunder wave is beneficial in crippling key Pokemon that outspeed this team.

    Make sure to give his set a try, I am certain you can find success with it. Best of luck on all your endeavors with this team!
  4. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Leader

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    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,104
    Hi Raquaza! It's always nice to see a weather team posted. They're very effective right now, as the loss of Absol makes it a lot easier to threaten a sweep.

    When I look at your team, I see a lack of direction. It's like your trying to play offensively and defensively at the same time, which simply isn't going to work. If you want to use Sunny Day effectively, you have to be playing offensively. A defensive weather team simply doesn't work.

    That being said, I don't think you're taking advantage of your sun nearly enough. Your Gardevoir set is really dead weight on this team, I believe that you should replace it with a Sunny Day Exeggutor. Advantages of Sunny Day Exeggutor:

    • Actually has offensive presence, which your team needs more of
    • Can still handle Fighting-type onslaughts for your team
    • Sunny Day Eggy can actually contribute, your Gardevoir set really doesn't. You don't need a wishpasser at all when you should be focused on killing.

    The set I believe would be best is:

    Exeggutor (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - SolarBeam
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sunny Day

    I believe this set will really help your team keep up its offense, without losing to much of its defensive backbone. It gives you a backup Chlorophyll sweeper if Sawsbuck happens to go down, which you really need. Exeggutor gives you a second way to handle Haunter, as well as Zangoose, when sun is up. It also gives you a second way to outspeed Swellow, which you mentioned is a huge threat to your team. Really, Eggy benefits your team in many ways, and makes this team look more like a sun team than the hodgepodge of cool mons it is now.


    I also agree with ium's changes, most notable Sawsbuck. A normal-type attack is needed on Sawsbuck, he explained the reasoning quite well.

    tl;dr (open)

    Sunny Day Exeggutor > Gardevoir
    ium's changes
  5. TehRaquaza2094

    TehRaquaza2094

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Liking the suggestions so far. As mentioned before, it was made just to see if a sun starter Cottonee was viable. More of a what if team. I appreciate the suggestions for making this a completely revamped NU team. before I fully re-design it I'm waiting for a few more suggestions.
  6. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 40 more
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    975
    Ok I lost my original rate when I close out accidentally, so this rate will be shorter. I agree with Raseri and especially ium's changes wholeheartedly. They have already made most of the suggestions I would have, but there is one aspect that you should look at: Wartortle.

    I've tested your team out with the above changes, and I've seen one major problem that is prevalent throughout all my battles: Wartortle is dead weight most of the time. While spinning is great to preserve Charizard, Roost and Leftovers already go a long way to keeping it healthy. Out of the rest of your team, only Volbeat takes a lot of damage from Rocks, and Spikes would be more problematic is your main sweepers didn't all have some form of recovery. Wartorle's Scald is rather useless in the Sun since it doesn't even 3HKO Golurk anymore (0 SpAtk Wartortle Scald vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Golurk: 23.51% - 28.21% (4-5 hits to KO in Sun)) and fails to always break Haunter's Sub (0 SpAtk Wartortle Scald vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Haunter: 21.98% - 25.86% (4-5 hits to KO in Sun)).

    My main recommendation is to replace Wartortle with something that'll maintain offensive momentum. I've tested a few different options, but I like Choice Band Sawk the most. With Mold Breaker, it keeps offensive pressure on your opponent's team even outside of Sun, while detering many Rock types from setting up early in the game. Another option would be to bring Gardevoir back as a Life Orb attacker with Destiny Bond/Healing Wish, but that option is more to prevent changing too many members of your original team than anything else. It DOES give you a reliable check to opposing weather teams, as well as a way to weaken Skuntank before Exeggutor has to face it.

    Change:

    Choice Band Sawk>Wartortle
    -OR-
    Life Orb Gardevoir>Wartortle

    Sets (open)
    Sawk @ Choice Band
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Knock Off/Stone Edge

    Gardevoir @ Life Orb
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Destiny Bond/Healing Wish


    Admittedly, ium's changes are all you realy need for this team to at least function well, but Raseri's change is very helpful to really use the Sun properly. My suggestion(s) just adds on to the theme of Sun abuse while still trying to maintain a utility role for your team. Good luck with testing your team!
  7. TehRaquaza2094

    TehRaquaza2094

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Thanks to you all. here's the updated team in a nutshell now. I believe this will work better competitively now that I've somehow managed to win with a Cottonee based team. I'm gonna give this a run on Showdown for a bit before I transport it to my wi-fi game. I like the more balls to the wall approach.

    Volbeat (M) @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Encore
    - Thunder Wave
    - U-turn

    Regirock @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Drain Punch

    Charizard @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Exeggutor (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - SolarBeam
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sunny Day

    Sawsbuck
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    Life Orb
    Adamant
    252 atk 4 spdef 252 spe
    Swords Dance
    Horn Leech
    Nature Power
    Double-Edge

    Sawk @ Choice Band
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Knock Off/Stone Edge

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