Counter That Doubles Team #1 [Totem Vs Nollan] FIGHT!!! 1-0 Nollan

BlankZero · Mar 27, 2014

Approved by Pocket and Pwnemon
Art by Based Art God, Bummer

Welcome to the Counter That Doubles Team Project! In this thread, we will attempt to create not one, but two competitive Doubles teams which are perfect counter-parts (pun intended) to each other, then at the end of it all, pit two players against each other to test the teams out in a Best of Three setting!

The Goal:
The goal of this project is to foster more creative Teambuilding in the community, as well as give us a more advanced setting with a higher skill cap to test more outlandish ideas, used to create counters to common Metagame trends. This could include anything from item and EV changes, to full on counterteam sets with custom moves not seen anywhere else! The secondary goal is to have fun and make this a regular thing outside of Battle of the Week and Tournaments, as a more laid-back, but still competitive atmosphere.

The Setup:

We will begin the process by nominating and voting for a single Doubles core to be used to mold our first team. The player whose core is selected will be chosen as Player 1. We will then nominations/voting for the second team that will counter the first core. The player's core chosen here will decide our Player 2.

Once we have our Players selected, each of them will select their own Retainer, or second. This person will be responsible for carrying out the Bo3 Match at the end, should the other player John or be otherwise incapacitated. This will ensure we have a nice, quick and clean match at the end without a bunch of Johning.

The Process:

In a Counter Teambuilding Exercise, there must be an order to things. Otherwise, you end up with one team and one counterteam, instead a paired match. To do this, we will alternate picks between the two teams in a balanced manner in order to not run the risk of over preparing one team over the other. The simplified version of this will be the following (abbreviating Player 1/2 to P1/P2):

P1 Core, P2 Core, P2, P1, P2, P1, P1, P2, P2, P1

Bold indicates rounds that are complete.

Following picks, we will have a Revisions Phase, but more info on this later. Suffice to say it will add a lot more to the whole structure of both teams.

This gives both teams an equal footing as far as picks and EVs are concerned. It basically turns it into a really big, more competitive CCaT overall.

The Thread Rules:

Rounds will last 3 Days each. I know this project is going to take a bit of time, but we have all the time in the world to make sure we have 2 great teams and a great match up at the end of everything.
Players selected MUST use the teams at the end of Teambuilding and may not make extra revisions on their own. No exceptions.
Retainers may Ghost with their Player during the Bo3 match. I know it's going to happen regardless of any ruling, so I figure why not just allow it anyway. There will be no other Ghosting allowed, nor will there be any Name Changes. Players must battle on their own accounts.
The Bo3 Match WILL include the CURRENT rulings and suspects. If we go super long on this and end up having a new suspect during the building or the match, they will not be considered a part of the exercise. For example, if we suspect Landorus-T during the build, and both teams have it on their teams, they won't be forced into changing that mon. We will be using all of the current suspects, banlists and clauses as of the time of the OP.
Players will have 2 Vetos to use during teambuilding. This is to prevent Troll Picks or otherwise distracting and destructive nominations from being included in the final team. A player will be allowed to use their vetos after voting has finished to deny that Pokemon from being included in the team. Should this happen, a second vote will begin, using the exact same nominations, minus the Veto'd Pokemon. Should there only be 2 Nominations that round, there will be no vote, and the other Pokemon not veto'd that round will automatically be accepted. Players MAY use BOTH of their vetos in the same round should they choose to do so and a Veto may not be overturned once it is used. However, Players will only have 2 Vetos to use for the entire exercise, so they should reserve them until they are actually needed. Vetos should not be used against a pick just because the Player doesn't like that Pokemon if it was a legitimate pick, but final decisions will be ultimately left to the Player's discretion.
Please keep shitposting to a minimum. I know this is a general Smogon rule already, but I'm trying to keep this a serious thread, even if I'm laid-back about most rules in general. this means: No open flaming of sets/persons. No arguing over the details of a specific set or idea; take it to PM/VM please. No "lol ur bad"-type posts. Do not attack someone just because you don't like a set. Instead try and help them fix/improve it. No one-liners. If you have to ask yourself, "Is this a good post?", you might need to relook at it a bit. I'm not going to be a hardass about this rule, but I do want serious discussion in here. If I have to try, so do you.

The Battle Rules:

Evasion Clause ON
OHKO Clause ON
Sleep Clause OFF
Item Clause OFF
Species Clause ON
Moody Clause ON
Soul Dew Clause ON
Endless Battle Clause ON
Team Preview ON
Timed Battle OFF

The Players/Teams:

Player 1: Totem

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 228 HP / 28 SDef / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Aegislash @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Safeguard
- Air Slash

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Protect

Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 224 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance

Player 2: Nollan

Jellicent @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 76 SpA / 68 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Water Spout
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Recover

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Def / 96 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch
- Detect

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly nature
- Return
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Protect

Liepard @ Dread Plate
Prankster
Jolly Nature
208 Spe / 252 HP / 24 Def / 24 SpD
-Fake Out
-Encore
-Foul Play
-Swagger

Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 16 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Sandstream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Protect

Break My Team/Wall My Team App
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realiti · Mar 28, 2014

confused. do P1 and P2 battle, or retainers? and is this like botw format? if it is, i think deadline should be longer.

BlankZero · Mar 28, 2014

Round 1 - Team 1 Nominations

Ok, gave this about a day to sink in so you all could think up some ideas.

Round 1 will last for 3 days. Please make nominations in standard Importable Format with Images. Be sure to try to make nominations as flexible as possible so that teambuilding, as well as the counter build, will be a varied as possible. Keep in mind that the core that is voted on will also be our Player 1.

Please make a nomination of two mons for the starting core.

Round ends Monday, March 31, 2014 at 12 PM CST.

BlankZero · Mar 28, 2014

U-Turn Out said:
confused. do P1 and P2 battle, or retainers? and is this like botw format? if it is, i think deadline should be longer.

P1 and P2 battle, but have their retainers on standby just in case they can't get the match done. It will be like a week deadline for that, but I'll discuss it more then.

BLOOD TOTEM · Mar 28, 2014

I'm going to put forward a core that I've been having a lot of fun with lately.

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 228 HP / 28 SDef / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

This core is designed with the idea of getting Kyurem-B behind a Substitute as often as possible. Substitute is a really great move and, coupled with great bulk and typing, it can really excel. Kyurem-B can clear out Landorus-T who's Intimidate would otherwise hinder the offensive pressure of Kangaskhan whilst Mega K puts huge pressure on pretty much every threat in the metagame. The coverage supplied by Ice and Ground is surprisingly good, especially when you factor in Mold Breaker which lets you hit things like Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur for great damage.

youngjake93 · Mar 28, 2014

Ludicolo @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SAtk / 12 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Teeter Dance
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Protect

Ludicolo+Terrakion is probably my favorite core right now. These two have great offensive, defensive and role synergy.
LO Terrakion is probably the scariest thing after a free sub right now. Rock Slide spreads damage around really quickly while LO Close Combat OHKOs a lot of things that you simply want gone now(either Pokemon in Totem's core if need be for example). Ludicolo's job is to create opportunities for Terrakion. Giga Drain and 4x water resist for Waters, Earthquake resist+Spore immunity and Ice Beam for Landorus-T+Amoonguss, Fake Out+Teeter Dance for free turn potential. The reason for Teeter Dance+Ice Beam over Water STAB is because Terrakion annihilates every common fire type and a lot of people don't want to keep Fire types in on Ludicolo anyway. The Ludicolo set can be altered if needed, but this is what worked pretty well for me on a Sun team. I have Hydro Pump and more speed on my Ludicolo for the Rain team that uses this core.

BlankZero · Mar 28, 2014

Nominating a core that finally made famous and that I've been abusing the shit out of.

Edit: Made it a bit better as a standalone core

Acculy Hitler (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 180 SDef / 248 HP / 80 Def
Calm Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Substitute
- Giga Drain

Madea (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Crunch

This combo is pure evil and capable of 6-0ing a lot of Team Comps right off the bat. SubMoongus is Hitler. It's so evil to give it that extra bit of pseudo-bulk from Sub, while still maintaining its core attributes of soaking up Fighting type hits, and Burns aimed at Kanga. Kanga, in Return ( :D ), sets up and wrecks whole teams easily. Crunch is used over Suckerpunch to tackle Ghost types more efficiently. Overall, this is an incredibly stronkth core that destroys so many things without a ton of outside support.

However, it does get countered by things like Taunt paired with a strong fighting type, faster Fake Outs, Quick Guard, and Breloom, so we would have to add checks to those things during teambuilding. It has a ton of options for improvement in its partner mons, making it a super reliable starting point for a team like this.

finally · Mar 28, 2014

:]
blank, do you have amoonguss ev's like that because amoonguss already lives mega kanga return, and to help against this
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 372-440 (86.1 - 101.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
having near max spdef investment allows for a pretty high chance to live modest char-y heat wave.
because my ev's are 252 hp/ 76 def/ 180+ spdef. that's meant to live timid char-y heat wave. it is also meant to live m-kanga fake out + return. idk how relevant the second calc is, but it's just fun to throw around. i was curious because with your spread you have a good chance to live modest zard y attacks, and you are naturally guaranteed survival from kanga (unless tfw double edge). or is your spread just lel lazy spread? ;] or do you believe spdef shroom is a lot better than mixed shroom? personally i always mix my defenses.
lastly, i recommend moving 4 ev's from def to spdef. this is why.
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 368-434 (85.1 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
12.5% increase in survival imo, and you still survive m-kanga stuff. unless i am missing something.
:]

BlankZero · Mar 28, 2014

finally said:
:]
blank, do you have amoonguss ev's like that because amoonguss already lives mega kanga return, and to help against this
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 372-440 (86.1 - 101.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
having near max spdef investment allows for a pretty high chance to live modest char-y heat wave.
because my ev's are 252 hp/ 76 def/ 180+ spdef. that's meant to live timid char-y heat wave. it is also meant to live m-kanga fake out + return. idk how relevant the second calc is, but it's just fun to throw around. i was curious because with your spread you have a good chance to live modest zard y attacks, and you are naturally guaranteed survival from kanga (unless tfw double edge). or is your spread just lel lazy spread? ;] or do you believe spdef shroom is a lot better than mixed shroom? personally i always mix my defenses.
lastly, i recommend moving 4 ev's from def to spdef. this is why.
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 368-434 (85.1 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
12.5% increase in survival imo, and you still survive m-kanga stuff. unless i am missing something.
:]

Semi-Lazy. 248 HP is a Lefties/Sub Number. I could do the 76/180 though. Modest Char isn't as big a threat behind a Sub and it would help against opposing Khan.

Stratos · Mar 29, 2014

For this, it's imperative that we pick a slippery lead, one that can't easily be hard countered. As much as I love things like Double Intimidate, team two would just pick a goddamn bisharp and we'd be on the back foot. As much as i love Charizard Y, team 2 would just pick all of the things that hard counter Charizard Y. It's better that we pick a core that doesn't have quite so many easy answers; one with few weaknesses and which can be taken in many different directions. That's why I'm suggesting this core:

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Fake Out
-Return
-Power-Up Punch
-Sucker Punch

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Modest
Stance Change
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
-Substitute
-King's Shield
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon

I like blankzero's core, but I don't like how it can't touch ghost-type pokemon, especially Gourgeist, which team two could just tech onto their team to laugh at us all day. also leading off with something as unthreatening as amoonguss seems a bad idea. I like totem's but I feel like it would struggle against many faster Pokemon, most notably Terrakion. (also i dont like subcube too much). I like the thought of using mega kanga because he's really slippery to pin down, but both of the partners suggested thus far have been lackluster. Sub Aegislash is an all-around threatening attacker that can ignore the downsides of KS while behind a sub, and is free to spam attacks until the sub breaks, making him more unpredictable than just sball ~ ks ~ sball ~ ks like how non-sub Aegi works. Aegislash demolishes ghosts, big problems for Kangaskhan, and Terrakion, which also sucks for kanga. Kangaskhan on the other hand threatens many faster pokemon with Sucker and Return and allows Aegislash to get a Sub up with Fake Out. The best part is that these pokemon don't have to be used together at all but they're each strong Pokemon in their own right, meaning that if team two's picks demand it we can just split them up and play it by ear from there.

p.s. I noticed how almost all of these cores contain Mega Kangaskhan. I don't think there's any disputing it: Mega Kangaskhan is the most versatile Pokemon in the Doubles metagame today and can fit on almost any team. His mono-normal typing makes it hard to compromise his good neutral bulk, and his access to priority is valuable for any team.

BlankZero · Mar 31, 2014

NOMINATIONS ARE OVER

BEGIN FIRST VOTING ROUND