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Counter That Doubles Team #1 [Totem Vs Nollan] FIGHT!!! 1-0 Nollan
- Thread starter BlankZero
- Start date
Volcarona
If TR can get set up, Ferrothorn becomes a major threat. Volcarona gives it the finger
If TR can get set up, Ferrothorn becomes a major threat. Volcarona gives it the finger
VOTING OVER :O
Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 224 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance
Our challengers atm are BLOOD TOTEM (team 1) vs Nollan (team 2) for having their 2-mon core selected as starting points for the respective teams. TOTEM and Nollan, please let us know 1) if you guys can play and 2) when you guys are playing :O
Who do you all think will win? Post your thoughts on the final products below! Here is the final look at the finished teams:
Team 1 AT A GLANCE
Team 2 AT A GLANCE
Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 224 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance
Time for Battle!
We are DONE with teambuilding! Now it's time for our challengers to pit this team against one another in a bo3 to see which team will come out on top!
Our challengers atm are BLOOD TOTEM (team 1) vs Nollan (team 2) for having their 2-mon core selected as starting points for the respective teams. TOTEM and Nollan, please let us know 1) if you guys can play and 2) when you guys are playing :O
Who do you all think will win? Post your thoughts on the final products below! Here is the final look at the finished teams:
Team 1 AT A GLANCE
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 228 HP / 28 SDef / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect
Aegislash @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield
Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Safeguard
- Air Slash
Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 224 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 228 HP / 28 SDef / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect
Aegislash @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield
Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Safeguard
- Air Slash
Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 224 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance
Team 2 AT A GLANCE
Jellicent @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 76 SpA / 68 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Water Spout
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Recover
Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Def / 96 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch
- Detect
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly nature
- Return
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Protect
Liepard @ Dread Plate
Prankster
Jolly Nature
208 Spe / 252 HP / 24 Def / 24 SpD
-Fake Out
-Encore
-Foul Play
-Swagger
Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 16 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Sandstream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Protect
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 76 SpA / 68 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Water Spout
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Recover
Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Def / 96 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch
- Detect
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly nature
- Return
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Protect
Liepard @ Dread Plate
Prankster
Jolly Nature
208 Spe / 252 HP / 24 Def / 24 SpD
-Fake Out
-Encore
-Foul Play
-Swagger
Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 16 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Sandstream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Protect
I think Mr. TOTEM will win because I helped him out by giving him a Volcarona so he wouldn't lose (see what I did there?)
As per overall thoughts, I feel this project wound up on a more middle ground where some things went well but others could be improved. I will note the teams definitely wound up pretty different in terms of overall effectiveness, with Team 1 being the "Good Example" and Team 2 the "Bad Example" (apologies to those who put work into the second team, every set on it has the potential to be good but I feel they just don't mix together well at all, unfortunately). I don't think the teams winding up rather unbalanced isn't necessarily bad however as it shows both where we want these teams to be and where we don't want them to be, so this first counterteaming session will probably be very helpful for future reference.
What I liked:
-A lot of creative ideas. This is always the direction I wanted Smogon Doubles to head rather than Landorus and Heatran and so on everywhere with little room for other effective strategies
-The starting points. Both starting cores presented some less common sets (in TR Jellicent and Sub Kyu-B), which imo was really key in that we weren't starting off with say CressTran and LandoKhan which would go down a pretty standard road. Having unique ideas to grow off of is key for any group teambuilding project, I'd say.
-A lot of participation. While it died down a bit towards the end towards the beginning we had a lot of different nominations presenting a lot of different concepts and ideas, which is neccessary to keep these sorts of things going.
What I disliked:
-My Team xD. I definitely feel what started as an all out Semi-Trick Room slowly fell apart into some sort of hybrid TR + DD sweeping team. I think it may have been my bad since I established the need for a more specific lineup right off the bat with a TR core, but I definitely think the team would have gone better had we stuck to a more dedicated Semi-TR build (TR setter, 3 sweepers, and 2 faster (and often VoltTurn based) mons typically for those who aren't familiar) rather than going (pretty far) off the originally intended path.
-Thread Slowing Down Over Time. By the end of this there definitely wasn't much discussion going around. I think figuring out how to keep this thread active over time will be key if we want to keep this project going, so that's something to improve on.
-Not A Whole Lot of Group Discussion. Quite often this thread was a steady single person's opinion and then a vote on whichever one was thought to be best (from what I saw, maybe I'm just wrong x_x). I think if people discussed how sets could be improved and general opinions on noms would help improve the project in general (also collaboration is good in general that's why we do these things).
As per overall thoughts, I feel this project wound up on a more middle ground where some things went well but others could be improved. I will note the teams definitely wound up pretty different in terms of overall effectiveness, with Team 1 being the "Good Example" and Team 2 the "Bad Example" (apologies to those who put work into the second team, every set on it has the potential to be good but I feel they just don't mix together well at all, unfortunately). I don't think the teams winding up rather unbalanced isn't necessarily bad however as it shows both where we want these teams to be and where we don't want them to be, so this first counterteaming session will probably be very helpful for future reference.
What I liked:
-A lot of creative ideas. This is always the direction I wanted Smogon Doubles to head rather than Landorus and Heatran and so on everywhere with little room for other effective strategies
-The starting points. Both starting cores presented some less common sets (in TR Jellicent and Sub Kyu-B), which imo was really key in that we weren't starting off with say CressTran and LandoKhan which would go down a pretty standard road. Having unique ideas to grow off of is key for any group teambuilding project, I'd say.
-A lot of participation. While it died down a bit towards the end towards the beginning we had a lot of different nominations presenting a lot of different concepts and ideas, which is neccessary to keep these sorts of things going.
What I disliked:
-My Team xD. I definitely feel what started as an all out Semi-Trick Room slowly fell apart into some sort of hybrid TR + DD sweeping team. I think it may have been my bad since I established the need for a more specific lineup right off the bat with a TR core, but I definitely think the team would have gone better had we stuck to a more dedicated Semi-TR build (TR setter, 3 sweepers, and 2 faster (and often VoltTurn based) mons typically for those who aren't familiar) rather than going (pretty far) off the originally intended path.
-Thread Slowing Down Over Time. By the end of this there definitely wasn't much discussion going around. I think figuring out how to keep this thread active over time will be key if we want to keep this project going, so that's something to improve on.
-Not A Whole Lot of Group Discussion. Quite often this thread was a steady single person's opinion and then a vote on whichever one was thought to be best (from what I saw, maybe I'm just wrong x_x). I think if people discussed how sets could be improved and general opinions on noms would help improve the project in general (also collaboration is good in general that's why we do these things).
Last edited:
The moment we added Liepard team 2 deviated quite a bit from its original semi TR build. Even though TR will not exactly be a strong win condition as long as Aegislash is around, I think team 2 actually supports our WP DD Tar well :3. Togekiss and Aegislash are the defensive bulwark that team 2 need to overcome efficiently in order to have a chance at victory. Team 1 has the team advantage, but there's enough room for strong/weak plays to determine the outcome of these matches.
Played pretty poorly on my part, Nollan on the other hand made all the right choices and shut me down totally after my initial mistakes.
GG man =]
Thoughts on the project.
Neither of the teams are anything I would use in competition / on the ladder. However, I don't feel like that makes it a waste of time. If anything it served as a creative exercise to find counters to specific threats and try out new things. Group teambuilds involve people solving different problems from multiple different viewpoints, this gives us opportunities to see how other people tackle problems and give us a wider understanding of the metagame.
Overall I've had fun with this and hope you all have too, shame I couldn't showcase team 1 a bit better! :>
GG man =]
Thoughts on the project.
Neither of the teams are anything I would use in competition / on the ladder. However, I don't feel like that makes it a waste of time. If anything it served as a creative exercise to find counters to specific threats and try out new things. Group teambuilds involve people solving different problems from multiple different viewpoints, this gives us opportunities to see how other people tackle problems and give us a wider understanding of the metagame.
Overall I've had fun with this and hope you all have too, shame I couldn't showcase team 1 a bit better! :>
Won vs BLOOD TOTEM. I approve; I approve.
Anyway, here is the replay.
Probably the biggest reason I won is because I prepared quite a bit for this battle mentally. xD
I knew Aegislash was TOTEM's only lead to really stop TTar + Liepard so I figured those two as a lead could do work, and they wound up setting TTar up for a pretty efficient early game sweep. I also figured Pinsir would wind up being nothing better than something to sacrifice and that's how it played out as well (getting that free switch in to Conk was very big, so sacing Pinsir was definitely my best play I'd say). Never got to use TR, though :(
Anyway, as per post battle thoughts (already posted overall thoughts so not doing it again), I think on Team 2 Protect > Swagger on Liepard (and possibly a Focus Sash) would be pretty helpful. I also think Pinsir would be better off being swapped for something else that works in TR fairly well, such as Substitute Chandelure (or something like it that ain't Ground weak ^_^).
Team 1 would definitely have benefited from TW Togekiss, as w/ Kanga Fake Out support it could have halted a TTar sweep pretty cleanly. Wide Guard on Aegislash would have been very useful as well, I'd say.
I also will mention that I underestimated my team a bit. I actually might try a ladder run with an edited version of it sometime in the future, so feel free to watch that if you are interested :)
Anyway, here is the replay.
Probably the biggest reason I won is because I prepared quite a bit for this battle mentally. xD
I knew Aegislash was TOTEM's only lead to really stop TTar + Liepard so I figured those two as a lead could do work, and they wound up setting TTar up for a pretty efficient early game sweep. I also figured Pinsir would wind up being nothing better than something to sacrifice and that's how it played out as well (getting that free switch in to Conk was very big, so sacing Pinsir was definitely my best play I'd say). Never got to use TR, though :(
Anyway, as per post battle thoughts (already posted overall thoughts so not doing it again), I think on Team 2 Protect > Swagger on Liepard (and possibly a Focus Sash) would be pretty helpful. I also think Pinsir would be better off being swapped for something else that works in TR fairly well, such as Substitute Chandelure (or something like it that ain't Ground weak ^_^).
Team 1 would definitely have benefited from TW Togekiss, as w/ Kanga Fake Out support it could have halted a TTar sweep pretty cleanly. Wide Guard on Aegislash would have been very useful as well, I'd say.
I also will mention that I underestimated my team a bit. I actually might try a ladder run with an edited version of it sometime in the future, so feel free to watch that if you are interested :)
Stratos
Banned deucer.
a prophet
Good game so far, brothers, but this is a BO3 :| Redeem yourself, BLOOD TOTEM 
Nollan
PS: DDTar getting shit done >:] Liepard wasn't shabby at all, either :V
Nollan
PS: DDTar getting shit done >:] Liepard wasn't shabby at all, either :V
Ok so I decided it was time to get this done. I asked BLOOD TOTEM and:
I then went to get finally so I could complete the battles:
After 30 extremely traumatic seconds of waiting I decided to battle user Benja299 with the teams since he was active (and wins games). We did a semi-test battle to introduce him to the matchup a little (it was relatively one sided but that's obv to be expected; I used a Liepard + Pinsir lead in that battle and Pinsir actually put in some nice work). Anyway, the second game came pretty close. I went with a Jellicent + Liepard lead (to burn things burning things is fun) and given that Swagger (and WoW actually) gave him a lot of problems in the test run (Liepard is a troll) he opted to set up Safeguard right away. He properly called I wouldn't Encore Togekiss expecting a switch and the game wound up coming pretty close (both of us made nice pro level misplays tho). However, at the end of the day my TTar cannot be burned so it took the game in solid fashion from there (along with my good buddy Ferrothorn; and yes that Rock Slide crit on Aegi did matter). #bantyranitar #weaknesspolicyistoostrong #leechseed #haxdoesntmatter
Well uh that's the set I guess (FINALLLY YUSSS)
I then went to get finally so I could complete the battles:
After 30 extremely traumatic seconds of waiting I decided to battle user Benja299 with the teams since he was active (and wins games). We did a semi-test battle to introduce him to the matchup a little (it was relatively one sided but that's obv to be expected; I used a Liepard + Pinsir lead in that battle and Pinsir actually put in some nice work). Anyway, the second game came pretty close. I went with a Jellicent + Liepard lead (to burn things burning things is fun) and given that Swagger (and WoW actually) gave him a lot of problems in the test run (Liepard is a troll) he opted to set up Safeguard right away. He properly called I wouldn't Encore Togekiss expecting a switch and the game wound up coming pretty close (both of us made nice pro level misplays tho). However, at the end of the day my TTar cannot be burned so it took the game in solid fashion from there (along with my good buddy Ferrothorn; and yes that Rock Slide crit on Aegi did matter). #bantyranitar #weaknesspolicyistoostrong #leechseed #haxdoesntmatter
Well uh that's the set I guess (FINALLLY YUSSS)
And how long is your doubles battle of the week gonna take?
We're building hype
AINT NO STOPPING THIS SHITTRAIN
come back to me