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Counter that Pokemon - Mk III [Silvershadow234 vs. New Breed]

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Cherub Agent, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    Molk's Entei
  2. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    OK, and so we have out first completed team: Team 2!

    Molk's Entei wins this round. Now Team 1 has the advantage in choosing a specific Pokemon to handle any chinks in it (very light) armor. This may be difficult due to the frail nature of Team 1, so I'll be interested to see what you guys come up with
  3. Blizzard

    Blizzard @ NeverMeltIce
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    [​IMG]


    Emboar (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge
    - Sleep Talk

    In my opinion, emboar is the best option for team 1, since it badly dents every pokemon on team 2. It also outspeeds four of the six given pokemon and proceeds to cleanly KO all of them with the appropriate move. Incidentally, Slowking and Entei are the only ones who only get 2hko'd (although, entei is OHKO'd by Superpower after SR). It also has decent bulk, allowing it to take some hits and KO back before going down. Of course, its heavy reliance on recoil moves does mean it isnt going to stay for long and KO all, but the heavy damage it does is more than enough to make you play recklessly. Emboar can, however, wait for the opposing team to weaken before unleashing its fury. Thus, it makes for a good cleaner/sweeper and especially allows Absol to take advantage of this and clean up efficiently with sucker punch. SR support is cool, since it makes emboar's job easier, and also allows it stick around for a longer period of time.

    The given set has been taken from on-site, with the exception of the EV spread. 20 Speed Evs have been removed, HP has been maximised, the rest 4 EVs have been put to defense. Sleep talk is necessary here, as it discourages Amoonguss from spamming Spore, which is always advantageous.



    Emboar's appetite for destruction : (open)

    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 252 HP/4 Def Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 62.38% - 73.51% (2 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Superpower vs 252 HP/4 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 123.27% - 145.54% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 4 HP/0 Def Hitmonlee: 213.22% - 250.83% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 252 HP/4 Def Amoonguss: 191.67% - 225.69% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 252 HP/4 Def Slowking: 47.21% - 55.58% (2 hits to KO) (SR)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Wild Charge vs 252 HP/4 Def Slowking: 94.42% - 111.17% (Guaranteed OHKO) (SR)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 248 HP/0 Def Escavalier: 346.36% - 409.33% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 0 HP/0 Def Entei: 47.71% - 56.33% (2 hits to KO) (SR)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Superpower vs 0 HP/0 Def Entei: 95.69% - 112.67% (Guaranteed OHKO) (SR)
    252 Atk Choice Band Emboar (+Atk) Wild Charge vs 0 HP/0 Def Entei: 47.98% - 56.6% (2 hits to KO) (SR)


    Calcs against Emboar: (open)

    252Atk Flame Plate Entei (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 252HP/0Def Emboar (Neutral): 39% - 46% (168 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier (+Atk) Iron Head vs 252HP/0Def Emboar (Neutral): 36% - 43% (156 - 185 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252HP/0Def Emboar (Neutral): 27% - 32% (117 - 138 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    0SpAtk Amoonguss (Neutral) Giga Drain vs 252HP/0SpDef Emboar (Neutral): 12% - 14% (51 - 60 HP). Guaranteed 9HKO.( as if that mattered...)
    0SpAtk Amoonguss (Neutral) Sludge Bomb vs 252HP/0SpDef Emboar (Neutral): 28% - 33% (120 - 142 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.


    Yeah, Emboar doesn't waste turns.
  4. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    [​IMG]
    Magneton @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Flash Cannon
    - Sleep Talk

    Magneton seems like a good option to patch up any holes team 1 has. At the moment team 1 has a bit of trouble taking on Escavalier, most notably in Trick Room because Rotom can't outspeed it and burn it before it can land the second hit under that battle condition. Magneton helps to patch this up by reliably switching in on Escavalier, even in Trick Room, trapping it with Magnet Pull, and OHKOing it with Hidden Power Fire. Magneton can also absorb Amoonguss's Spore thanks to Sleep Talk while having little to fear from Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb, which is essential because team 1 struggles with Amoonguss a bit at the moment. Aside from those two roles, Magneton has the capability to to 2HKO every Pokemon on team 2 bar at worst bar Amoonguss, making it harder to directly switch into, and even in the case of Amoonguss it can't really touch Magneton in return with Giga Drain. Here are some calcs to show just how much damage Magneton can do:

    Calcs (open)


    252+ SpA Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowking: 296-350 (75.31 - 89.05%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Magneton Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Escavalier: 304-360 (88.62 - 104.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 272-324 (67.32 - 80.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Magneton Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 134-158 (31.01 - 36.57%) -- 87.35% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee: 148-175 (61.15 - 72.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 204-241 (54.98 - 64.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  5. vyomov

    vyomov

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    [​IMG]
    I'd like to propose this set to combat some of the mons facing Team 1 right now:
    Sigilyph@Flame Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
    Nature: Modest
    - Cosmic Power
    - Psycho Shift
    - Roost
    - Stored Power
    This set can annoy a lot of mons in Team 2. Team 2 has no dark types and has only one mon who resists Stored Power and another that cannot be burned.
    After two Cosmic Powers nothing much on Team 2 can harm it. Amoonguss can't Spore it after a turn and it can easily OHKO with Stored Power after a boost or two.
    252 HP means it can take some hits and 252 SpA means Stored Power will be hitting VERY hard.
    After burning most mons save Entei, they can do nothing but watch as Sigilyph sets up, Roosts when necessary and then OHKOes.
  6. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    [​IMG]
    Mangron (Aggron) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Head Smash
    - Sleep Talk

    Aside from being incredibly manly, CB aggron straight up destroys team 2, 1HKO'ing everything bar piloswine with head smash, and piloswine, the only poke that isn't 1HKO'd, is 2HKO'd as well so can't switch in to save it's life as aggron outspeeds with 4 speed ev's. Aggron is also a good check to escavalier, which is something team 1 direly needs.

    Calcs on aggron vs. team 2:
    Show Hide
    252Atk Choice Band Heavy Metal Aggron (+Atk) Head Smash vs 248HP/0Def Leftovers Slowking (Neutral): 109% - 129% (432 - 508 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Heavy Metal Aggron (+Atk) Head Smash vs 248HP/0Def Choice Band Escavalier (Neutral): 100% - 118% (343 - 405 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Heavy Metal Aggron (+Atk) Head Smash vs 0HP/0Def Fighting Gem Hitmonlee (Neutral): 123% - 145% (297 - 350 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Heavy Metal Aggron (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252HP/0Def Black Sludge Amoonguss (Neutral): 111% - 130% (480 - 565 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Heavy Metal Aggron (+Atk) Head Smash vs 0HP/0Def Flash Fire Entei (Neutral): 221% - 260% (822 - 968 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Heavy Metal Aggron (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine (Neutral): 71% - 84% (288 - 340 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.


    Calcs for team 2 vs. aggron:
    Show Hide
    252Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier (+Atk) Iron Head vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Sturdy Aggron (Neutral): 38% - 45% (133 - 157 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    0SpAtk Amoonguss (Neutral) Giga Drain vs 252HP/0SpDef Eviolite Sturdy Aggron (Neutral): 31% - 36% (108 - 127 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    252Atk Flame Plate Entei (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Sturdy Aggron (Neutral): 41% - 48% (142 - 168 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.


    Sleep Talk gives team 1 a poke that can absorb amoonguss' spore, and Head Smash is the move you will be using p much every time, as it nets a KO every single time, seeing as piloswine can't switch in for fear of being 2HKO'd.
  7. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    Silvershadow I really like your submission, but conisder just removing Earthquake imo. It's not hitting anything harder and just gives you a nigh useless move for Sleep Talk to select. As a matter of fact you could probably also lose Heavy Slam as its only use is for Piloswine, which is utterly crippled by Head Smash anyway. Remember that this last Pokemon has to be as effective as possible, and I think a set of Head Smash and Sleep Talk accomplishes that. You say EQ is nice for finishing off Esca but Aggron can afford a miss against snailboy anyway
  8. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Magmortar
    [​IMG]
    Magmortar @ Expert Belt
    24 HP/ 252 SpA / 232 Spe
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    Modest Nature
    Fire Blast
    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Ice
    Substitute

    Magmortar is a great Fire-type for Team 1. Being able to completely switch in on Amoonguss and then OHKO it is awesome. Also, it can now hit druddigon with HP ice. Slowking can't safely switch in and Sub is really just filler, but it can be useful. It is able to get a KO on many of the Pokemon, excluding Entei. All in all, it'd be very useful.

    (I know you moved them Molk)
  9. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Hey guys I think it might be time for voting. Anybody with me?
  10. Cherub Agent

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    OK guys we're nearing the end of this project. Here are the submissions. Think carefully before you vote, as Team 1 needs to absolutely select the most efficient Pokemon for the job, as Team 2 has seen to it that Accelgor will accomplish little in the final battle (just based off the team in my opinion. Effectiveness needs to be absolutely maximized in every sense, and so my personal vote goes to Silvershadow234's Aggron.

    pkbizzard's Emboar
    Molk's Magneton
    vyomov's Sililyph
    Silvershadow234's Aggron
    Mack the Knife's Magmortar

    Ok so some feedback on the other submissions from me. Basically I think that the absolute priority for team 1 is to have a solid switchin to Escavalier and who can then take advantage of it. I feel like Aggron is the best choice for this as it OHKOs 5/6 of Team 2 with a single move, and the one Pokemon that it doesn't OHKO still can't switch in, as it's both 2HKOd and outsped. Emboar and Magneton are very strong seconds, as Emboar has a quadruble Megahorn resist and can still fire off immensely powerful attacks, but these can be predicted and switched in on. Magneton appeals to me because it guarantees Escavalier's safe removal from the battle, but the sheer and utter OHKOing potential of Aggron. Magmortar and Sigilyph do not really appeal to me because they cannot switch in on Escavalier, and Magmortar still fails to really do much against Slowking and Entei. Sigilpyh could possibly be effective but I'm no treally sure as it runs into problems against Entei and still doesn't provide an Escavalier switchin.
  11. Blizzard

    Blizzard @ NeverMeltIce
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    Silvershadow234's Aggron
  12. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    pkblizzard's emboar
  13. scorpdestroyer

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    For me it's an incredibly difficult decision between Emboar and Aggron. But I'm voting for Aggron because it requires way less prediction.

    Hopefully accuracy doesn't screw up team 1
  14. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

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    Silvershadow's manly Aggron
  15. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    pkblizzard's Emboar
  16. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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    pkblizzard's Emboar
  17. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Silvershadow234's Aggron
  18. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    pkblizzard's Emboar
  19. ebeast

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    pkblizzard's Emboar
  20. speed ghilliesniper

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    Silvershadow234's Aggron
  21. TROP

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    Silvershadow's Aggron manly mon
  22. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    and Silvershadow234's Aggron wins 7-5!

    well then, we have our two finalists. Silvershadow234 and New Breed will face off in a Best Of Three, with the former using Team 1 and the latter using Team 2. It will be up to the two of them to make out a time to battle. Preferably do it over IRC guys when you're both on and a lot of other people are so that we can all watch :)
  23. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Just wondering do you/can you post replays of the battles so even if we missed them we can still watch them?
  24. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Yes, that would be very nice, especially for people from different time zones that can't really watch at the time.
  25. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    Alright we decided to play the first match since we were both online and didn't know when exactly that would happen again. It was a pretty intense match and came down right to the end so I wont spoil it for anyone who has not watched it yet.

    Log: http://pastebin.com/RFJk8T7h
    Replay: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-19225836

    We will be having our next match tonight (for the americans) at 8pm GMT +0 and it will most likely be on the main server, we will give out the links on irc in #rarelyused so if your unsure on how to find the battle just go there.

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