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Counter that Pokemon - Mk III [Silvershadow234 vs. New Breed]

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Cherub Agent, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Wow I love this project and ru is awesome too. Looking at these suggestions though some are slow or scarfed. I'm going to vote for Double 01 and accelegor but aren't we not allowed slashes. I'll put forth a poke of my own next round but can't now as the suggestion round is over. I'd also like to see bug ninja man in action so it should be fun.
  2. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    And so accelgor wins! Congratulations Double0Bum, you're not 100% useless after all. So now you guys can start putting down submissions for the first pokemon on team 2. Remember, something that can counter accelgor or check it is gonna obviously be the best choice, but make sure that it has some utility outside of that role as well. Think outside the box, as moves like stealth rock, priority and thunder wave are all just as good at crippling accelgor as a full on counter. Let your imagination run free :)
  3. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Which / is accelegor using?
  4. Celever

    Celever

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    The only types that Accelgor does not hit super-effectively with both hidden powers is electric and poison (by my calculations) so a single hidden power must be picked, else I will end up submitting FEAR (dibs on it though, no one steal it).
  5. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    Double01 stated that we'd be using Hidden Power [Water] in his post if Nidoqueen is staying in the tier, so yeah, that's what we're gonna be doing. I'll ask him to remove the slash.
  6. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    [​IMG]
    Altaria @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Nature: Modest
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fire Blast
    -Hidden Power Ground
    -Roost

    XPower SwapX
    252+ SpA Life Orb Accelgor Bug Buzz vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 84-99 (26.16 - 30.84%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Altaria Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Accelgor: 377-445 (124.83 - 147.35%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Accelgor: 329-387 (108.94 - 128.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    With Accelgor only 4HKOing Altaria while being swiftly 1HKO'd in return by either of Altaria's attacks, I think that Altaria is a very strong counter to Accelgor. Even with Stealth Rock (didn't use it in the calc as the other team doesn't have it right now) it's only 3HKO's, meaning it can still easily Roost off any damage that Accelgor may try to inflict and KO in response. Regardless, it's versatility in smashing anything that comes in with a Draco Meteor and then screwing any special attacker with Power Swap is something that can't be underestimated, meaning that it can force more switches and give it more opportunity to Roost or just continue to smash faces. Plus it's ability, Natural Cure, means it can be a very good status sponge as it can't be worn down by Toxic or crippled by Paralysis or Sleep.

    I'd like some clarification on the Hidden Power of choice though, as if Nidoqueen does get banned after this pick and HP Rock comes into play Altaria loses it's ability to counter Accelgor, being 2HKO'd with or without rocks. Basically, is Hidden Power Water set in stone or could it be changed depending upon the status of Nidoqueen?

    Edit: After discussion changed Power Swap to HP Ground, due to Power Swap depending more based on surprise which really won't be a factor in this match with both sides knowing the others team, and HP Ground being another solid attacking option that gives Altaria very good coverage in the tier.
  7. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Nidoqueen was not banned, so accelgor will be using HP Water in this CCT.

    Anyway, I really like the Altaria suggestion. May I recommend using Specs Altaria though? The Specs set still does a great job of countering Accelgor, but is much more powerful, and any team without a steel type(which is roasted by Fire Blast) or a specially defensive cryogonal or Slowking(which are weak to Pursuit)is going to lose a lot of health every time Altaria switches in(even off of that average special attack stat,a 140 BP move with specs is going to hurt pretty much anything offensive).

    Here is the Specs set that imo is better than the Life Orb set, although both do have its advantages(LO can switch moves and has roost), the specs set hits so much harder, and it doesn't particularly matter when it comes to switching move because unless they have a steel type not named Durant or Aggron(which are 1HKO'd and 2HKO'd respectively), and then you can use Fire Blast.

    Here is the specs set:
    [​IMG]
    Altaria (F) @Choice Specs
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Rest

    Thanks to natural cure, it can use rest, switch out and the sleep goes away, just if you were a bit confused.
  8. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    [​IMG]
    Escavalier @ swarm @ choice band
    252 attack 248 hp 8 special defence
    Megahorn
    Iron head
    Return
    Pursuit
    This poke can ohko accelegor with every move and pursuit on a switch. Pursuit will have a strong chance to ohko on a switch too while accelegor has to have rocks up, hit focus miss twice and get very high damage rolls twice. I don't think many good players would stay in anyway and also it's not weak to rocks. Very few steels can beat it because of its insane power and if they choose torkal lol we can pick a rock type to beat them both.
    Good partners would be sand slash as it can beat all of its counters with eq, set up rocks and spin. Dont say this pick is to early for hazards as its only to early for extra hazards as rocks are fine and otherwise it may go like the ou Cpt battles. This is not weak to rocks and it's insane power allows it to get a kill almost every time it comes in. Imo its the band Terrakion of ru except more powerful but slower. Don't say it has poor coverage as bastiodon, mawille and torkal are the pokes that beat it which sandslash beats easily.
  9. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    Now THIS is what nominations should look like. Keep them coming guys!
  10. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    [​IMG]
    Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    Calm Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    -Spore
    -Stun Spore
    -Giga Drain
    -Sludge Bomb

    Specially Defensive Amoonguss is a hard counter to team 1's Accelgor, resisting every move bar Bug Buzz, which is only a guaranteed 4HKO, meaning with Regenerator, most of the damage taken will be healed up. EVs slated mean that Amoonguss only takes around 40% damage AT MOST (calcs below). This means that most of the time, all damage will be negated after Black Sludge and Regenerator. Spore is obvious and allows Amoonguss to cripple anything without Vital Spirit or Sap Sipper, and we can easily pack a counter to those next. Stun Spore is another great way to cripple Accelgor once Sleep Clause activates, it certainly hates being slowed down. Giga Drain is for good recovery, though it can't do much to Accelgor, it won't be staying in in fear of paralysis. Sludge Bomb hits Sap Sipper users hard, and as a bonus is a guaranteed 2HKO on Accelgor after it has taken LO recoil, meaning that nothing is safe with the combination of Spore, Stun Spore and Sludge Bomb. Ordinarily I'd run some speed EVs to outspeed some threats which I wouldn't name, but it's pointless since team 1 could just run a few more EVs.

    252+ SpA Life Orb Accelgor Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 146-173 (33.79 - 40.04%) -- 33.45% chance to 3HKO

    4 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Accelgor: 129-153 (42.71 - 50.66%) -- 1.17% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed OHKO after 2 rounds of Lfe Orb recoil)
  11. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

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    [​IMG]

    Entei @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Entei looks like a good choice atm. While it is weak to HP Water, it doesn't OHKO even after rocks, while Entei can KO Accelgor with pretty much anything. While a full health Accelgor has only a small chance to die to ESpeed, after a round of recoil, there's an 87% chance of Accelgor being KOd. Entei in general is pretty strong so even if Accelgor switches out, the switch in is going to get hit hard. The moves are pretty self explanatory, as they are pretty much the only physical moves Entei has. HP Grass is chosen as the fourth move as it allows Entei to 2HKO Rhydon and Kabutops and somewhat hurt other Water types without resorting to the inaccurate Stone Edge. Most of Entei's hard counters are defensive, something we can use to our benefit by choosing something which sets up on them (as we pick again after this).

    Some calcs:
    252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 101-120 (27.22 - 32.34%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Hidden Power Water vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 211-250 (56.87 - 67.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Accelgor: 267-315 (88.41 - 104.3%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Accelgor: 267-315 (98.16 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (1 round LO)
  12. Celever

    Celever

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    [​IMG]
    Braviary @ leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Attack
    Nature: Jolly
    - Substitute
    - Bulk up
    - Roost
    - Brave bird

    BU braviary doesn't see nearly as much use as banded or lo versions, in NU or RU, but even in RU it works extremely extremely well! It counters Accelgor for obvious reasons, but if you get this guy set up then it can really crush teams under its crush claw (even though it doesn't have it in its set, don't care) and, well, yeah. There is my contribution.

    NOW VOTE FOR IT!!!
  13. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    [​IMG]
    Scyther @ Eviolite
    Trait: Technician
    248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spd
    Nature: Jolly
    -Swords Dance
    -Aerial Ace
    -Brick Break
    -Roost

    8 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Accelgor: 432-510 (143.04 - 168.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Hidden Power Water vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 66-79 (19.24 - 23.03%) -- possible 5HKO

    Thanks to only being 5HKOed by Hidden Power Water and being able to 1HKO back with Aerial Ace, Bulky Swords Dance Scyther is as hard a counter as they come. In addition, he can Roost off any damage Accelgor might be able to inflict, and if he comes in at full health, he can even Roost off Stealth Rock damage, since Accelgor can't 2HKO after Stealth Rocks. Despite this bulk (which can potentially stall out things like Defensive Slowking's Fire Blast), Scyther still maintains solid sweeping potential with Swords Dance and the solid coverage between Aerial Ace and Brick Break.

    Something like Kabutops makes for a good partner. Kabutops can spin rocks off the field with ease, allowing for more switch-in opportunities, and aside from the double Electric weakness, they have decent synergy, with Scyther being immune to Ground and 4x resisting Grass and Fighting-type moves that Kabutops hates, while Kabutops resists the Fire, Ice, and Flying moves that are aimed at Scyther. On a more defensive route, Steelix works well with Scyther, capable of taking on his two biggest counters (according to the Usage stats) in Aerodactyl and Archeops, while also being able to set up rocks which will greatly help with Scyther's sweep.
  14. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Guys we should probably try and avoid to many stealth rock weak pokes ATM as a rockers is almost always chosen. Yes rapid spin but bulky ghosts exist. Braviary has mono coverage so team 1 can choose a bulky rock/steel and rocks then braviary can't counter accelegor. Entei can't effectively switch in as bug buzz then hp water is a guaranteed ok after rocks. Amoongus can counter ok ish but gets 3hkod and I doubt sludge bomb ohkos. Altaria with specs can be worn down easily with rest essentially giving team 1 2 free turns. The other altaria I like but again has to attack then waste a turn which physical attacks don't care about. Escavalier can ohko, always survive 2 focus misses (small chance to 2hko with rocks) and is neutral to rocks so can't be worn down as easily. Also focus miss hitting twice is happening 49% of the time so very reliable.
  15. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    I agree with most of your points dragontamer, especially about the rocks weakness and most of the "counters" being worn down by repeated attacks or not KOing in return. Plus I really like Escavalier, it would have been my second choice by far. But I do disagree with when you say LO Altaria attacks then wastes a turn on a physical attacker. It attacks yes but it's either killing Accelgor (if that's what it's hitting) or smashing whatever else comes in with a Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. Then, either Accelgor is dead and in comes a counter, or the counter comes in and eats a Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. At that point power swap isn't a necessity if whatever it's going to be used on would be wasted on, the main reason I put that there was to prevent setup sweepers such as Calm Mind users from turning it into set up fodder after in nukes something.
  16. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    I find that kind of ironic if what u said is true because ur altaria is my second fav pick too. The reason why I think it may not do as well though is because it is weak to rocks and life orb can whittle it down quickly too. Ik you have roost but a well played double switch is very annoying as you are then at 50% to take the next attack on. Also the thing is ur set is very unpredictable and I felt it may rely on surprise factor a bit. They can then choose a bastiodon who is a reliable rock setteruperer (love that word :D) and can use stone edge to do a nice chunk to you. Ik that's the same with a lot of suggestions but I would rather have a 75% escavalier than a 50% Altaria if we do mispredict.
  17. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    Very good points again, this will be competent battlers so smart double switches and having rocks up is not out of the question. And in all honesty Escavalier is my second favorite choice, hands down. I do agree that this Altaria is unpredictable and relies somewhat on surprise, and if what I'm understanding in the final battle both sides will know the others team so that means surrpise is very limited. Escavalier, while awesome unfortunately is also set up bait for a Stealth Rock setter, such as your example Bastiodon, so both mons are at a disadvantage in that respect with their current sets. With all this in mind I'm thinking on changing Power swap out for a different move, notably Hidden Power Ground (i I'm assuming changes like this are allowed, someone correct me if I'm wrong). This gives it a solid attacking option on quite a few things, most notably Nidoqueen who I have to think will be rearing it's ugly head before this is over and who Altaria checks quite neatly if it's not packing Ice Beam (of course after seeing Altaria team 1 could run Ice Beam if they do use it, but then they lose the Queens most powerful attack in Sludge Wave or the utility of Stealth Rock).
  18. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Amoonguss definitely won't OHKO Accelgor, but that's beside the point. Amoonguss is there as a full stop to Accelgor's attacks since theres a good chance it's only 4HKO'd after Black Sludge. Amoonguss in turn threatens a crippling status to Accelgor, and given the right amount of prediction, can cripple other stuff on team 1. And also, Amoonguss' Sludge Bomb is a guaranteed 2HKO on Accelgor after Life Orb recoil (or Stealth Rock)
  19. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    I'll just say this now though escavalier can 3hko bastiodon with iron head and stone edge is a 4-5hko. Altaria can 5hko bastiodon with fire blast but Stone edge always 2hkos unless you roost. Yes this is max hp max special defence bastiodon but IMO that's the best set by far as otherwise a lot of powerful special attackers can overpower you. It's the standard set too but now that I think about this escavalier and altaria with a sandslash would make a really good offensive core as they're only troubled by bulky ghosts which can be taken care of too. If bastiodon does decide to set up rocks on escavalier it does nothing all match as stone edge does very little and looking at how this is going to be setup bastiodon looks like a very valuable pick so I wouldn't want to use a physically defensive spread as eq, cc will still ko while it can take Draco meteors, fire blasts and thunders so much better.
    And yes you can change ur suggestion.
  20. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    [​IMG]
    Golbat @ Eviolite
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Taunt
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
    - Roost

    Golbat is pretty much the ultimate counter to Accelgor, possessing a 4x resistance to every single one of its attacking options except for Hidden Power Water, which can only muster up a maximum of 23% damage against the gluttonous bat, which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Golbat even has reliable recovery in the form of roost, meaning it can counter Accelgor all match even with Stealth Rock up, as Golbat still ends up with above 50% of its health after 1 round of Steath Rock and a Life Orb boosted Hidden Power Water. Golbat has quite a bit of utility outside of countering Accelgor as well, functioning as a pretty good check to Sceptile and Lilligant, while also using its fast Taunt, immunity to Toxic, reliable recovery, and great bulk with Eviolite to stop most defensive Pokemon from doing their job effectively, among other things. Last but not least, while Golbat's probably easier to check than most of the other entries, it can easily U-turn out of its checks and counters as they switch in and grab some momentum, as we can go directly to our counter to their Pokemon without providing them with a free turn, which is incredibly useful.
  21. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Please don't use slashes on your poke. Golbat isnt very hard to counter IMO like aggron can come in on any move and threaten a automize sweep or a sun and if you decide to switch in ur taking a head smash. It can come in endlessly and get a ko every time which I personally wouldn't want. We also have to pick as viable as we can pokes otherwise team 1 can choose a viable poke for an easy counter. If we can get a powerful team which is harder to counter then team 1's final pick advantage is a lot less of an issue.
  22. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    Keep in mind though dragontamer, were not looking for something that the other team has to counter immediately, were looking for something that counters Accelgor first and then Team 2 gets another pick to compliment the counter, that then has to be countered by Team 1. So the arguments that our counters are super easy to counter and aren't as good in general is somewhat off base as the point of this pick is just to counter Accelgor.
  23. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    [​IMG]
    Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
    Trait: Soundproof
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Psyshock
    - Baton Pass

    This boss is immune to Accelgor's Bug Buzz thanks to Soundproof and doesn't care about the rest of its moveset because of its fantastic special defense and Calm Mind. After a Calm Mind, Mr. Mime's Substitutes are never broken by Accelgor's strongest attack vs Mr. Mime, Giga Drain, so it can set up a Calm Mind, Substitute, and then Baton Pass them to an appropriate partner in an ideal scenario, though hopefully the opponent is smart enough to switch Accelgor out of Mr. Mime before it can set up too much. Mr. Mime itself is also pretty difficult to beat due to its ability to Baton Pass, which means that it's rather difficult to Pursuit if played well, and it should share great synergy with the next Pokemon on Team 2 because of its setup moves and Baton Pass.
  24. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    I get what you're saying but a counter to accelegor thats hard to switch into isn't too hard to find. Like escavalier and ur altaria both are hard to switch into and counter accelegor. Id rather be a little weaker to accelegor (but still comfortably beating it) than hard counter it with a not so viable poke.
  25. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    Wow, I'm really impressed with all these submissions guys! The discussion going on was also great, so I'd like to applaud you all for that. All of the submitted Pokemon (Eight :O) seem very solid to me, so I haven't yet made up my mind. Without further ado, you may now vote on one of these following Pokemon to start off Team 2:

    [​IMG]speed ghilliesniper's Altaria 1
    [​IMG]Silvershadow234's Altaria 2
    [​IMG]dragontamer74pe's Escavalier 7
    [​IMG]scorpdestroyer's Amoonguss
    [​IMG]Qwertyuiop's Entei
    [​IMG]celever's Braviary
    [​IMG]MicfiJasan's Scyther
    [​IMG]Molk's Golbat 4
    [​IMG]SilentVerse's Mr. Mime 2

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