Counter that Pokemon - Mk III [Team 2 won!]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ganj4lF, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. HellPowna

    HellPowna
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    [​IMG]
    (Lady DDiana) Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 40 SAtk / 216 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Hurricane
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roost
    - Earthquake


    For team 2


    Hello guys, im HellPowna, and this is my friend: Dragonite. Today, she and I will offer you this weird set, which will allow you to counter the "Team 2", are you wondering how it is possible that, aren't you? Well!let's move now to the explanation.
    With BW Dragonite received a new trait: Multiscale. In BW1, Dragonite was used a lot, because thanks to Multiscale and its excellent Defensive/Offense statistics allowed to counter "everyhting". With BW2, Dragonite isn't used like in BW1, cos there are Thundurus, Keldeo, Tornadus, etc. But, this fantastic set manages to break the "Team 2", one composed of Heatran, Keldeo and Celebi, the old core FGW.

    Let's just say that Dragonite does not fear Keldeo, this is because HP Ice with multiscale gets to a Damage of 32-33%. Dragonite after HP Ice can paralyze him with TWave, and then, Nite can decide to kill our "Pony" with Hurricane (damage 98-101, OHKO with Rocks) or have pity on him, or do Roost until you get to re-activate Multiscale. But what happens if there are rocks in the field?so no Multiscale?damn it, but keep calm..It happens nothing! Keldeo will fail miserably the OHKO because:

    100%-25% (Stealth Rocks)=75%
    75%-65% average damage (the minimum is 59%, and the highest is 67%)=10%
    With 10% I can paralyze Keldeo, and then, i can Roost (HP Ice with Roost without Multiscale: 32%-33%). After roosted i can wait to reach Multiscale, or kill Keldeo with Hurricane.

    Hey HellPowna, what do u mean if are there Sandstorm or Hail and SR?
    It happens that Keldeo will fail again, because:
    100%-25%=75%
    the highest damage is 67%, so: 75%-67%=7%(during this time, i can paralyze it!)
    As you well know guys, the Hail/Sand's damage is 6%, so: 7%-6%=1%, and, then roost ;)

    Heatran and Celebi are practically destroyed by this set, infact; the first one will be defeated by EQ, the second one will be defeated by Hurricane(2HKO, if Celebi has 252HP). In conclusion, this set is better if it will be used in the Rain(Hurricane lol).

    Well; that's all! Sorry for my poor english and thank you for reading this message. HellPowna, and my little friend; Dragonite!


    [​IMG]
  2. Turtle Soup

    Turtle Soup

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  3. gengarsnemisis

    gengarsnemisis

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    Melee Mewtwo
    Lando-t is just not a good pick right now, rotom walks all over it and its setup bait for landorus, which Ive done on PS countless times.
  4. Nova

    Nova fromlomostreet
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    Melee Mewtwo

    Hydreigon adds to the offensive nature of the team and helps with Scarf Keldeo's main checks (Jellicent, Celebi, Lati@s on the switch in)
  5. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    @Hellpowna, too bad set submissions were already over. Try the next time, and read the last posts before posting yourself! Thank you.

    Voting is closed! Here's the tally:


    So, welcome the fourth pokemon of Team 2:

    [​IMG]
    Melee Mewtwo's Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Roost
    - Superpower

    I'd like to say a couple of things before going on with the discussion. First of all, we're sticking with the current meta regardless of the outcome of the suspect test; so both team will be able to pick Tornadus-T whenever they feel like, and Team 1 is still free to take Keldeo. Second, please don't bandwagon or vote the author of the post and not the set itself. I find sad that my own set, that gathered almost no support during the discussion, almost won the vote. Please don't force me to implement some private voting or something, it would be a hassle to me and not funny to you either. Just vote the set you honestly believe will do better, every other factor is not relevant and misleading. Thanks.

    Now, let's discuss pokemon 4, Team 1. As usual, 72 hours at least. Go!

    (First post will be updated soon, kinda busy at the moment)
  6. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-D @Leftovers
    Recover
    Spikes
    Taunt
    Night Shade
    252hp/252spdef/4def/calm
    This set walls so much of team 2 atm it's ridiculous. Hydreigon can occasionally 2hko but with leftovers that chance goes. Yes if it has stealth rock it's a 2hko but we'll probably have a rapid spinner. Deoxys doesn't mind if there isn't a spinner either and it walls keldeo and heatran too. Celebi is setup on too and can set up those precious spikes for Kyurem. Magic bouncers aren't that big on a deal as espeon normally lacks reliable recovery and xatu can be worn down by rotom-W and Kyurem sets up on it. Espeon with reliable recovery lose to us, no shadow ball or scizor, no hp fire or is weak, no calm mind. Spinners can be worn down by spinblockers and we have the last pick so they'll be easy to counter and again can be worn down and Kyurem handily sets up on them all.
  7. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
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    Does it get any more obvious?


    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    What does this set do? Scizor is consantly #1 in usage and for good reason. U-Turn is excellent as it packs a lot of punch when factoring in STAB and Choice Band while scouting out any retreats thus maintaining momentum. Technician boosted Bullet Punch is its other STAB attack and has cool utility as it allows Scizor to revenge kill weakened foes as well as go on occasional sweeps. Superpower is a great coverage move and Scizor's strongest attack. Pursuit gives Scizor yet another utility as it allows it to pick off fleeing foes.

    Calcs (open)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 235-277 (72.75 - 85.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 410-484 (126.93 - 149.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0- Def Hydreigon: 196-232 (60.12 - 71.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 189-223 (55.1 - 65.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    4 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 117-139 (34.11 - 40.52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 88-104 (27.24 - 32.19%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


    How can this set help the team? Scizor hard counters Celebii while being a decent check to Hydreigon. Heatran can't switch-in without risking a OHKO while Keldeo risks losing a giant chunk of HP. It also forms an excellent Volt-Turn core with Rotom-W that will let Team 1 control a large portion of the game.

    What can the other team do in response to this set? There are a few offensive counters to Scizor. Gliscor and Lando-T are two good ones. Bulky waters like Gyarados don't have much to fear from Scizor's attacks. Zapdos can switch into anything and threaten with STAB Tbolt/Volt Switch or SE Heat Wave.

    What potential additions can be made to deal with these responses? None be needed as Rotom-W already takes care of everything that would be chosen to counter Scizor. Zapdos is an exception however it suffers from a crippling SR weakness and can do little to Kyurem-B.




    @dragontamer74pe: Deo-D is obviously a great pick but I feel that for Team 1, chosing their hazard lead is best saved for the last pick. Picking it early lets the other team counter lead ours which forces us to dedicate another pick just to counter their counter.(which then gets messy in battle as we can't just straight spam hazards as we would like and have to do some switching around) There are plenty of viable hazard leads now thanks to the release of Custap Berry that we can surely save it for last and find one that counters whatever is left that needs countering. (or just has a strong match-up against the opposing team in general)
  8. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    [​IMG]

    Scizor@Life orb

    Nature: Adamant

    Trait: Technician

    248HP/252Atk/8SDef

    -U-turn
    -Bullet Punch
    -Superpower
    -Roost

    This set is slightly different from Melee Mewtwo's, using LO instead of CB. This will allow us to freely switch up moves when Heatran comes in after something dies. This way, we won't have to switch out when we face Heatran locked into Pursuit or Bullet Punch since we can OHKO with Superpower and not allow Heatran to get up a free sub. We also threaten their only Kyurem counter and Hydregion as well.

    Here I have Roost to recover damage lost to LO. I think we can give up Pursuit, as U-turn does a hefty chunk to Celebi if it stays in, while gaining us momentum. Not to mention the infamous Voltturn core formed with Rotom.

    P.S. Both U-turn and Superpower score OHKOs on Hydreigon.
  9. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
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    I like the idea of being able to switch up attacks but I don't think that does us much good. Heatran outspeeds Scizor so once it is in, Scizor has to switch out to avoid being roasted by Fire Blast. Keldeo is in a similiar boat although it only takes a massive chunk of HP instead of OHKOing.
  10. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Melee Mewtwo I get what ur saying but surely team 2 already knows team 1 will use a hazards poke. By saving it for the last pick may backfire too as we notice their team is very weak to a poke but we then choose hazards or that poke. Also most hazard counters share the same weaknesses so we can choose a poke that works well and destroyers their opportunities for counters.
  11. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Ok so counters for Hydra are (obviously, lol) out of the question, so I'll nominate something that can revenge kill it + be a threat

    [​IMG]
    Breelom @ Life Orb
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant
    Technician
    ~ Swords Dance
    ~ Mach Punch
    ~ Bullet Seed
    ~ Spore

    Currently, Breelom entirely fucks up T2 with +2 Mach Punch alone (except for celebi, kinda). +0 Mach Punch is enough to OHKO Hydra and OHKOes Heatran 68% of the time after SR. Spore puts potential slower threats out of the question because it's just free set up for 'loom. Bullet Seed adds coverage and is mindblowingly powerful. There's just not enough to say about 'loom, lol.

    I considered a jolly nature because Mamo is a potential pick for t2 but we have Rotom-W already so I don't think it's necessary. If everyone agrees I could change it, but keep in mind that we lose the OHKO after rocks on Keldeo at +2.
  12. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Just a shame celebi is on team 2 which almost always beats breloom but I suppose the celebi can't hit breloom very hard though.
  13. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    Celebi can cripple Breloom with ThunderWave, but nothing else can really be done. Mach Punch being a priority move can really negate the speed drop from paralysis.
  14. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan stay stay stay
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    [​IMG]
    Tornadus-T (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Hurricane
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    - Rain Dance

    Well... what about Tornadus-T?
    In rain, Torn-T completely walls the Heatran, as Sub+Roar won't cause any net damage (factoring in Stealth Rock + Regenerator), hopefully, we'll have rain support up so Fire Blast isn't too big a deal, and it is immune to Earth Power. It also nails Keldeo on the switch-in with a supereffective STAB Hurricane, and deals massive damage to Celebi with Hurricane/U-Turn and also hits Hydreigon for decent damage with U-Turn or Superpower.

    Rain Dance is there just in case we don't run Politoed. Tornadus-T will probably end up needing Drizzle support, but seeing as it doesn't hurt any of our mons and powers up our Rotom-W, a Politoed wouldn't be too bad, right? Either way, Rain Dance works in our favor, unless we run Politoed, in which we should replace it with Taunt or something.
  15. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    If there is rain, Kingdra will definitely cause problems
  16. C AllStar

    C AllStar

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    [​IMG]
    Latias @Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+SpA-Spe)
    -Draco Meteor
    -Surf
    -Psyshock
    -Recover

    Latias is currently really underrated now, mostly due to its more powerful brother Latios. However, Life Orb tank Latias really fit team 1 right now. Out of team 2's pokemons, Heatran, Keldeo and Celebi can't touch it (well, t-wave is annoying though). While it is OHKOed by Hydreigon's Draco Meteor, it can switch into its remaining moveset to force it out or KO it outright. None of team 2 can actually take hits from Latias. Hydreigon is OHKOed by Draco Meteor, Heatran is easily 2HKOed by Surf. While Keldeo can outspeed Latias with a scarf, it can't do jack to Latias and is easily KOed by Psyshock. Celebi while can take some hits, is worn down easily by repeated Draco Meteors coupled with offensive pressure. The best thing is Latias itself will hardly be worn down due to Recover to neglect damage from Life Orb and its resistance to opposing team's moves coupled with its incredible special bulk.
  17. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Here's my nomination

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor

    This Terrakion set after a RP boost can sweep through team 2 cleanly at the moment with rocks up.It can do that quite well by forcing out 3 out team 2's 4 pokes so far.Meaning that even if Team 2 picks something like Gliscor next,Terrakion can still smash 2/3 of team 2 and outspeed and kill atleast 3 of Team 2's mons,and quite possibly more.

    With a bit of prediction or utilizing Rotom-W's volt switch,Terrakion can come in and put a lot of pressure on team 2 threatning a sweep or cripple team 2 heavily.Landorus and Kyurem-B can abuse Keldeo's attempt in revenge killing Terrakion by setting up RP or Sub.Not to mention it basically forces Team 2 in a defensive pick.I'd like other people opinions on this set as I think Stealth Rocks and Swords Dance might also be viable options as well as an Adamant nature.
  18. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

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    At this point, T2 looks quite weak to Terrakion, which can pretty much get a kill if it comes in. So I'll nominate a CB Terrakion.

    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    With a CB equipped, Terrakion can pretty much do irreparable damage to some Pokemon on Team 2. Heatran, Hydreigon and Keldeo are OHKOd by CC, and all but Keldeo are 2HKOd by Stone Edge. X-Scissor kills Celebi and also Hydreigon. This pretty much forces Team 2 to run a defensive Pokemon like Gliscor or Landorus-T, both of which Rotom-W can handle or to sacrifice something and revenge it with Keldeo.

    Terrakion finds it hard to switch in directly, which is where Rotom-W comes in with its Volt Switch, allowing Terrakion to threaten Team 2 with its STAB moves. Overall, I think it puts Team 2 under great offensive pressure.


    EDIT: Looks like I was kind of ninja'd by White symphoni. I'd like to say that I think Adamant is a better option on RP Terrakion here imo, as it doesn't need all that speed and the extra damage might help it kill Keldeo with Close Combat with a little bit of prior damage.
  19. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
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    1. If the other team picks something like Gliscor it will be to switch it in directly so Terrakion won't be getting 3 kills. (I may be misunderstanding what you mean by that bit but it sounds like you're saying Gliscor won't stop Terrakion from taking 3 kills)
    2. Terrakion is an excellent offensive pick but it isn't doing us any favors defensively speaking in that it doesn't counter any of Team 2's new picks.
    3. We already have RP Lando so this is kind of doubling up on roles. Personally, I like SubSalac better but I can see the appeal in not speed tieing with Keldeo.
    4. Adamant sounds good for a pure RP set but running Swords Dance may be a better idea. DoubleDance is tried and true and Terrakion's natural speed is already pretty menacing for Team 2. It'll make it harder for them to find a good counter pick and SD Stone Edge OHKOs Celebii anyways.
  20. Rewer

    Rewer is dog
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    Id vouch for cb scizor but with a better spread: 160 HP / 176 Atk / 168 SpDef. The atk loss is barely noticeable but the spdef boost to take on dragon moves, random hp fires, surfes and shit is really useful since scizor does switch alot in special moves. like for example:

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 160HP/168SpDef Scizor (Neutral): 52% - 62% (169 - 200 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 252HP/0SpDef Scizor (Neutral): 59% - 70% (206 - 243 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  21. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
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    I can see the advantages of this spread however it doesn't help much against the four members already chosen by Team 2. They will likely take the spread into consideration when making their final two picks. I think I'll keep the standard spread as it lets Scizor take a bigger chunk out of Hydreigon/Keldeo with Bullet Punch/Superpower and will make it harder for Team 2 to counter Scizor as well as just give it meater U-turns to spam. (Looks like a cool spread, though, and I'd be interested in knowing what it was built to beat so that I have something to consider when adding CBScizors to my personal teams)
  22. G-Von

    G-Von

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    [​IMG]
    Alakazam@Life Orb
    Timid Nature
    EV's: 252 Spe/252 SpA/4 SpD
    Ability: Magic Guard
    -Substitute
    -Psyshock
    -Focus Blast
    -Shadow Ball

    The Man, The Myth, The Motherfucking Bad Ass; Alakazam. He sends shivers up the spines of all 4 pokemon on Team 2. Celebi is the only one who has a chance to live two hits, but if Celebi comes in when Zam sets up a sub, then it will have to play guessing games. After it breaks the Substitute, will Alakazam set up another sub, attack, or switch out? If Celebi goes for T-wave on the Sub, than Zam will win. When put into the right hands (which will happen since whoever is in control of Team 1 in this situation will be a talented battler) will have much fun wheeling and dealing damage and playing mind games with Subs. Plus, 'Kazam can thrive regardless of weather because of Magic Guard so it would give Team 1 some flexibility picking its final pick.
  23. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Angel of mercy, how did you find me?
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    I have to say that Team 2 is pretty well built right now; there's no pokemon that we can really choose that can handle all or even more than half of Team 2 effectively, so this vote's gonna be tough. Damnit, why are we so good at this

    Since a lot of great ideas have been posted already, here are some of my thoughts on them.

    Deo-D: Decent suggestion. It does get our hazards and bulk and Taunt down, but choosing it so early can make us susceptible to Taunt- and, as of now, there is no real reason to use it over than for hazards. Still, it gets hazards down, which is good.

    Scizor- a good suggestion. U-Turn cab easily keep Celebi as Hydriegon at bay, and the possibility of Superpower can also cause Heatran to hesitate from coming in each time. It has good physical power, which is great for Team 1 who needs it, and can revenge / clean up teams. One of the best suggestions, despite being really weak to Keldeo-R and weak to Heatran

    Breloom: another great suggestion. It beats Heatran easily, and Keldeo too if it comes in on a resisted move. Hydriegon can't take a Mach Punch, so it's out of the question too. The only problem here is Celebi- and it hard counters Breloom. Still, Loom is a great idea for reasons similar to Scizor, and should be considered. We'd just need an answer to Celebi (but again, why not now)

    Tornadus: It's ironic since I went as far as considering BU AcroGem Tornadus-I for Team 1, but I ruled it off since it was a bit gimmicky- (but seriously, can OHKO Heatran and Hydriegon with a boosted Superpower, and Celebi does to Acrobatics. Keldeo cam beat it, but if we run tailwind... heck, we can even consider U-Turn.) Anyway, I'm not too sure I like this one; it kind pf forces us to use Rain, which wouldn't exactly be bad but keep in mind the opponent has a Keldeo just waiting to be boosted so it mightnot be the best idea. I really only like it for U-Turn / SPower, both of which are weak.

    Latias: Latias makes us weak to Scarf Latios. Then, it'd turn into Dragon vs Dragon revenging offense, which isn't fun to battle with. Latias is also walled by Celebi, and only increase our problems with it... so, it's an eh suggestion.

    Terrakion: Band and RP have their own benefits, but personally I like Band more since we already have 2 setup 'sweepers'. Band's fast power lets it beat Hydriegon, Keldeo, and Heatran with CC and Celebi with XScissor. It's a fine suggestion, but again makes us weak to Keldeo. This can be bypassed, but keep in mind many counters to Keldeo can't get past Celebi (Amoongbro, Lati@s)

    Alakazam: despite being a weirder approach at the topic, Alakazam is still a great idea. For one, it single handedly defeats the whole entire Team 2- as, with not too much prediction, it can Sub up vs Celebi / Heatran / Hydriegon and then wreck the possible Keldeo switch in. Alakazam is probably my favorite suggestion right now, as it's fast and can check the powerhouse sweepers- Specs Latios and Band Terrakion. Plus, Magic Guard makes switching in and out easy, so it's not as much of a problem to spin for us as it is for them. Just something to consider.
  24. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    I was saying that even if Gliscor is chosen Terrakion can get 3 kills and not will.While Terrakion might not bring much to our defense,however it's counters doesn't have a good matchup against our teams.Defensively Rotom-W gives Hippo,Gliscor,Lando-T and slowbro a hard time,Landorus-I can force them out too and slowbro offers free Subs to Cube.They can get revenge killers but then they'll have no switch in.
  25. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
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    Sorry, I misunderstood you about the Gliscor bit. My gripe about Terrakion defensively speaking was the fact that it couldn't switch into Celebii. However, Cube doesn't have much problem outside of parahax messing with SubRoost stalling and SR taking a chunk out when switching into a Baton Pass. Still, Cube counters Celebii so I guess we can ignore it (and we can't do anything about Hydreigon).

    Well Keldeo can't switch in without risking a Superpower eating up almost all of it's HP whereas Heatran looks at 2HKO. U-turn is just going to eat up its HP for nothing and Pursuit has a different target so that leaves a trying to predict a Bullet Punch (which still takes a quarter of Keldeo's HP). So it's not really weak to either of them, it just risks giving it a free switch-in (the only target of Bullet Punch ATM is Hydreigon) that can be solved with Rotom-W.

    Except Celebii risks a 2HKO from +2 Bullet Seed and can only tickle back or try to hit with T-Wave which doesn't bother it. If Sleep Clause isn't activated then Celebii is just going to a sitting duck.
    Show Hide
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 258-306 (63.86 - 75.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 61-72 (23.37 - 27.58%) -- possible 4HKO


    ScarfLatios isn't going to be picked since the other team already has ScarfKeldeo. The main problem with this set is that it is walled by Celebii who can cripple its fantastic speed with Thunder Wave.

    It sadly can't switch into anything on Team 2 without the need for Rotom's Volt Switch. Celebii is almost always going to be the one who switches in to Rotom-W and that's a hard fight one-on-one for Alakazam. Zam can't Sub up as it'll just be eating away at it's own HP making Subs that Celebii pops with Giga Drain. If it attacks it risks a Thunder Wave. Although Recover stalling risks a crit, Shadow Ball isn't hitting hard enough that Celebii can't shrug it all off after 4-5 turns and if it spams Giga Drain it'll heal enough to save a turn or two.

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    252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Celebi: 174-205 (43.06 - 50.74%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 93-111 (36.9 - 44.04%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    That heals about 11-13% per hit and about 7% when popping a Substitute.


    By the way, move that HP EV someplace else since it is giving Zam an HP stat perfectly divisible by 4. (so it can only make 3 Subs)

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