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Counter that Pokemon - Mk III [Team 2 won!]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ganj4lF, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Everyone is voting for their own poke so I'm gonna choose Melee Mewtwo
    as scizor works well with us and gives us volturn.
  2. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
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    GREAT MIGHTY DOOM
  3. blunder

    blunder

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    The Great Mighty Doom
  4. Quickster

    Quickster

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    Melee Mewtwo
  5. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Qwertyuiop
    Nice coverage and can easily sweep late game or after Keldeo is gone by spamming STAB Close Combat/Stone Edge. Don't particularly like the Choice Band, as the three moves have EXCELLENT coverage on Team 2, (and so I probably would've liked a SubSalac set or something) but already got one RP mon. However, this does force Team 2 to go defensive again on their next pick, so very good in maintaining offensive pressure.
  6. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
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    The Great Mighty Doom
  7. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
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    The Great Mighty Doom
  8. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    TheGreatMightyDoom's Heracross
  9. Alexander.

    Alexander.

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    The Great Mighty Doom
  10. Nova

    Nova Palisades
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    Melee Mewtwo
  11. Groudon ex

    Groudon ex

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  12. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    Melee Mewtwo

    Heracross is really cool but I would actually prefer to see something with 101+ speed as our scarfmon as Team 2 has yet to pick their sweeper and Salamence would be a massive headache if we go with Heracross. Plus Scizor-Rotom works and it adds a Steel type to Team 1 while countering the new Celebii pick and checking the Hydreigon one with Bullet Punch. (or U-Turn if it gets hit by Rotom's TWave)
  13. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Yeah agreed with melee Mewtwo. Imo a scarfer has to be at the very worst 100 base speed but should be over. Also heracross isn't the hardest poke to counter dew to its stabs poor coverage. It also makes us gengar weak which will be very hard to counter.
  14. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Melee Mewtwo
  15. gengarsnemisis

    gengarsnemisis

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  16. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Voting is closed! Here's the tally, as usual:


    This time the votes were quite fragmented between various entries; TGMD's Heracross manages to win in the end. Let me present you the fourth member of Team 1!

    [​IMG]
    The Great Mighty Doom's Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Night Slash

    Okay, now let's move to the fifth pokemon, team 1! As usual, at least three days for discussing. Go!
  17. Nova

    Nova Palisades
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    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    I'd like to nominate Stealth Rock Terrakion for Team 1. Team 1 is using a Substitute+Dragon Tail Kyurem-B that is great at shuffling around the other team, but Team 1 has no entry hazard setters so Kyurem-B's shuffling is not racking up that much damage. To rack up some entry hazard damage and make the Dragon Tailing strategy more effective, we need some to set up entry hazards. Terrakion is a great choice to set up rocks because he outspeeds everything on Team 2 save Keldeo. He makes a great lead to get up rocks early and they'll stay there for the remainder of the game as Team 2 has no Rapid Spinner yet and to put immediate pressure on the opponent with his powerdual dual STABs, Close Combat and Stone Edge. Terrakion also has a great matchup against most of the members on team 2. Against Heatran and Hydreigon, he outspeeds both and easily OHKO's with Close Combat, giving Team 1 a quick advantage. When facing Heatran or Hydreigon, it is likely that they will switch out so Terrakion can go for Swords Dance and become an even bigger threat. Against Keldeo, he lives any attack due to Focus Sash and can get off some massive damage against it with Close Combat and OHKO if he's at +2 Attack. Against Celebi, it is a bit more difficult but he can draw the Giga Drain or Thunder Wave and switch into Heracross to resist the attack or possibly grab a Guts boost. If Terrakion has the +2 boost, then Stone Edge 2HKO's Celebi.
  18. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    You could add Zen Headbutt maybe as a slash on SD to check Keldeo? (since Sash virtually lives and could revenge if we needed it too)
    I personally love that Sash'd Terrakion, but I'm going to wait and hear more nominations before I share thoughts on them / etc.
  19. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Close combat already hits Keldeo harder than zen headbutt due to STAB.X-scissor can be an option instead of SD for Celebi though.
  20. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Dual fighting now? IMO we needed scizors steel typing.
  21. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adament Nature
    - Icicle Crash
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Shard

    What does this set do? Mamoswine is one of the few good ice types in OU. It's main claim to fame is its awesome STABs and priority STAB Ice Shard that is backed by a mighty 130 base attack and good SE coverage. Icicle Crash and Earthquake are its STAB attacks that have near perfect coverage just between the two. Ice Shard is a must to make up for that slow speed to revenge kill the plethora of ice weak sweepers. Stealth Rock is a filler choice but is still a must to have on any team. Thick Fat helps make up for Mamoswine's horrible defensive typing by removing its fire weakeness and giving it a nifty BoltBeam resist.

    Calcs (open)

    252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 253-300 (78.32 - 92.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 398-471 (98.51 - 116.58%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Hydreigon: 229-273 (70.46 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 889-1050 (274.38 - 324.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 51-61 (15.78 - 18.88%) -- possible 6HKO


    How can this set help the team? At the moment, a DDMence pick from the opposing team will completely wreck Team 1. Mamoswine is the best answer to it as it can cut off its sweep with the nifty Ice Shard. Mamoswine does more than that, though, as almost nothing can safely switch into Mamoswine as even Keldeo is KO'd when switching in by a combination of Earthquake, Stealth Rock, and Ice Shard.

    What can the other team do in response to this set? Anything outside of Physically Defensive Skarmory and Bronzong are taking far too much damage to be a strong choice. Sadly, Bronzong is a strong choice for Team 2 as it can set up SR and checks Landorus, Kyurem-B, and Heracross. Skarmory doesn't really do much for Team 2 besides setting up Spikes and annoying Cube and Heracross.

    What potential additions can be made to deal with these responses? The bright side to Bronzong is that it doesn't hit very hard and thus makes it ideal set up fodder. A hazard lead like Deo-D or Custap Forry/Skarm can easily switch-in and set up more than just SR while each boasting worthwhile niches. Fire types like Heatran can roast Bronzong easily but have to be wary of switching into a Earthquake. It's not a happy pick to push for but it's that or Salamence derping an easy sweep.
  22. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    Scarf Keldeo easily revenges the Mamo above with Surf (guaranteed OHKO)
  23. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    Except that Keldeo can't switch into Earthquake if SR is up as the following Ice Shard will finish it off before it can Surf.
  24. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Scarfers are meant to be revenge killers though. However, I like the offensive pressure Mami brings to the table as well. I'm on / off about Mamo at the moment tbh.

    Also, any reason why Edge of Icicle Spear? Why not just replace Crash for Superpower if we want to hit Wash? I wouldn't want to rely on Edge to hit raregyra anyway and Icicle Spear still hurts Gyara switches.

    SR is also a good move over Edge as well as Spear so I think we should discuss those moves (I feel superpower is superior to icicle crash though unless its hitting something in particular since superpower has better coverage).
  25. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    Yeah, Scarfers are supposed to be the revenge killers but Heracross has a less than stellar speed for this role. Salamence doesn't even have to run a speed boosting nature to outrun it after a Dragon Dance, resists it's STABs (meaning Heracross is it's set up fodder), and is incredibly hard to counter while sweeping through the current match-up with absolute ease. Mamoswine fixes this while also threatening to KO anything that mispredicts the switch-in.

    I'm not sure what you mean here but it sounds like you want Mamoswine to run Icicle Spear over Icicle Crash. Icicle Crash is the superior choice as it provides a consistent 85 base power whereas Icicle Spear is a 2-5 times attack that only has 25 BP each hit. (so a 50% chance to hit less than Crash)

    Yeah, Stone Edge was just filler to hit stuff like Gyarados and round out the coverage. I'm totally open to putting SR/Superpower on instead just let me know which you like better and why.

    I just noticed Mamo has an 80 base speed (and not the 70 I though it had before) so a Jolly nature is a very appealing option as it lets Mamo outspeed the Timid Heatran instead of risking a revenge kill. The downside is the drop in power that'll let the OP pull some clutch plays but it seems really minor so I'm going to make the change unless you guys think it would be better to keep it as Adament.

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