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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ganj4lF, Dec 7, 2012.
Timid is cool but it misses out on some cool KOs and the opponent can easily use a ScarfTerrakion or Keldeo to revenge kill it instead (plus non rain Empoleon misses the OHKO on Choice Rotom anyways). It would be worthwhile if we decided to run Rain and Wobbufett to deal with non-Volt Switch ScarfMons but that is a lot to ask from a team off the bat like that.
Anything is going to get countered and if we force them into a Sun team or using bulky mons right off the bat then it's doing its job as the first choice. (Even Rotom, except SpDefensive, is 2HKO'd by Emp's boosted Surf)
The cool thing about Empoleon is that its typing lets it check some Kingdra sets and counters others and since it works well even outside of rain choosing Kingdra becomes a risky choice.
Empoleon hits so hard it is arguably harder to counter than RP Lando or Agility Thundy. The thing that really messes it up, though, is that low base speed that leaves it outrun by ScarfMons even after an Agility. It's resistance to most priority and Substitute kinda helps make up for that though. Plus these revenge killers can't really risk switching in to Emp anymore than they could into Lando or Thundy. Sadly, Petaya Berry is a one time use item so Emp is a bit less flexible early game. I still wouldn't exclude it from that group though as it makes up for the lack of power early game with double +1s late game.
Yeah, the slashes are for non-Rain vs Rain. Without Rain, the reliable Surf with the complementary Ice Beam is the way to run it whereas under rain Hydro Pump becomes so massively powerful that the accuracy drop isn't a problem and Ice Beam becomes unnecessary allowing for the use of Grass Knot to give it near perfect coverage. I assumed it would fall under the second rule listed.
The point is, Thunder outclasses Thunderbolt completely in rain, and that's the only reason slashes are permitted in that case. In your case, Hydro Pump doesn't (technically) outclass Surf in Rain, nor does Grass Knot outclass Ice Beam in any circumstance (and the other way too). The point is you're changing coverage depending on future picks; let's say they pick Jellicent to stop Empoleon, then you can pick Rain just to have a reason to use Grass Knot and go through Jelli. That's not allowed, that's not how CtP is supposed to work. To be honest, I was thinking about banning slashes completely, that point in the rules is just to avoid dumb things like running Ice Beam in hail just cause you didn't know you'd later pick an Abomasnow. As a general rule of thumb, if it changes coverage, that slash must be removed.
Ah okay, thanks for explaining that. I went with the more general Surf/Ice Beam then.
Edit: Eh, I don't like having such a bare post to say so little. I'll edit my vote into this post if there ends up being a close race between two sets.
Edit2: Pocket's Kyurem-B
DarkBlazeR's Tailwind Hydreigon
Tailwind could totally turn the tides of the battle in team 1s favor.
Edit: ginganinja's mixmence
It seems that the vote is going heavily in MixMence's favor but I've oddly not been a big fan of mence. Easily revenged in this case with no boosting moves and even something like the RP Landorus set I gave can outspeed and kill it at base 101 speed.
Reason I went with RP Landorus dispite other suggestions: almost anything slower than it is dead, end of story. It is also weak to Ice Shard like mence so they're comparable there but mence's Special Attack gets nerfed after a Draco and Outrage makes you easily revenged by almost anything faster.
Both are very good at breaking things but the main reason I like Lando over Mence is the RP. Both can come in and break something but if desired Lando can RP up if it's safe and proceed to sweep. Mence can come in and wallbreak certainly, likely netting a ko, but then it will be forced out and put us in an awkward position.
Also tooting my own horn a bit but what'cha gonna do? I suggested Lando for a reason.
Edited my vote if that's ok. I didn't realize I can't self vote. My bad. Leaving my thoughts since they're still valid
I got the original format right :> it's SubSD Terrakion in case anyone forgot. I probably would have gone with Hydreigon, but I'd rather we have something tried and true instead of something more or less unknown.
Pocket's SubRoost Hone Claws Kyurem-B
Not much to say here other than I've always wanted to see defensive cube in action.
Pocket's SubRoost Hone Claws Kyurem-B.
Really fun set with lots of potential and doesn't open up to many weaknesses/counters.
Dat Kyurem B Pocket made...
SubRoost Hone Claws Kyurem-B
I don't know why all this love for Kyurem-B, get a Scizor and a steel like Cobalion who can Sub and resist Dragon Tail and break Kyurem's one. Whatever
Voting for Electrolyte's Landorus-T, at least it's solid and will always works, no matter what is picked next.
DarkBlazeR's Tailwind Hydreigon
Pocket's SubRoost+Hone Claws Kyurem-Black
Pocket's SubRoost+Hone Claws Kyurem-B
Pocket's Kyurem-B set looks like an interesting (and good) first choice for Team 1. I was also considering supporting Tailwind Hydreigon, but liked this better, so...
Done if not too late
Dark pulse chosen over the might burst for reliability and also in case anybody else can use it.
And I vote pocket if I can
EDIT 2: Item is scarf. Not LO sorry
You can say that about any Pokemon -_-
There are counters/revenge killers for everything, that's the point.