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Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ganj4lF, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    The problem with Garchomp is that it fails to counter Slowbro and has to work with the already busy Zapdos (he's needed to keep Lando-I at bay) to handle Jirachi. Being so Skarm weak kinda sucks since giving Spikes turns is never a very good thing (and Skarm can always run something so that it's not stuck Whirlwinding after eating a Outrage) although it's true that Team 1 is already pretty defensive. Then there's the whole reliance on Outrage if Garchomp doesn't want to have to switch out whenever a ground resist/immune comes in (Lol, BallonTran trolls this set so hard). I do like seeing something aggressive being suggested but it's coming at the price of leaving Slowbro without a counter and allowing Jirachi and Lando to gang up on Zapdos (especially since Jirachi would have no other reason than to not Icy Wind the Zapdos/Garchomp switch-in as of now) and it's still kinda easy to counter or play around.

    Edit: getting hit by a Twave or Scald burn means it won't be able to stop Landorus and Jirachi can take its bite out if it with Iron Head haxing. (although, this weak fairy probably won't be doing much in most cases besides fishing for a parahax with Thunder)
  2. Nglittleguy

    Nglittleguy

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    zapdos can take them both

    i say blissey to handle zapdos, or maybe gastro. das all i got
  3. relaunched

    relaunched

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    You did the wrong calculation because your set uses Leftovers while the calculation uses a Life Orb. The actual calculation is this:

    44 SpA Seismitoad Scald vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Landorus: 212-252 (66.45 - 78.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Of course you can try stuff like Hydro Pump over Scald or more Special Attack, but Gastrodon usually OHKOes even w/o SR anyway with Ice Beam and no investment (well 4 EVs).

    Also I agree that Stealth Rock is important and is a useful thing for the team, just saying it's a widely distributed move and not the most pressing need. It's definitely a point in favor of Seismitoad though.

    Vaporeon/Blissey both seem like pretty good choices. I would prefer Vaporeon because it packs a bit more of a punch, plus does better against Jirachi. It may take awhile, but Jirachi has a decent chance of eventually beating Blissey with Iron Head unless Blissey runs Thunder Wave, but Blissey has some moveslot problems. Vaporeon on the other hand doesn't care too about Iron Head.
  4. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    Why on Earth are we considering defensive picks for things as offensively pathetic as Jirachi and Slowbro? Landorus is the only mon on Team 2 that can actually pose a threat and it is already handled by Zapdos. We need to focus on taking advantage of the lack of offensive pressure from the last two picks and turn them into free turns for strong attacks.
  5. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Nlittleguy, please don't double post, and put some real content into your posts please. I suggest taking a look at the rules, otherwise you might accidentally break one without knowing and get infracted.

    It's true Garchomp doesn't counter Slowbro, but that was never the point. Garchomp checks all 3 of them and sets up Stealth Rock, it's an amazing offensive answer to all of them and exerts extensive pressure on team 1. Garchomp puts no extra pressure on Zapdos to check both Lando and Jirachi whatsoever, it helps check all 3 as stated above, taking the pressure off Zapdos, as the teams are now Garchomp can sweep at +2 with little prior damage. In comparison to some other suggestions, Garchomp doesn't help take the pressure off Zapdos as much, that's true, but that can be the point of our next pick, our next pick can be something that's a bit more defensive and does a great job of checking / countering team 1's Pokémon, for now something puts mass amounts of offensive pressure on the opposing team is great. And Garchomp doesn't really let Skarmory set up Spikes, as I explained in my post, lol.
  6. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    Yes, but it's usually better to get the countering out of the way with the first pick so that you have a better idea for what has the most synergy with the rest of the team when deciding on the second free pick. As a second pick Garchomp definitely has more appeal but the first one should really focus on making sure the recent additions are non-issues. (nitpicking but Garchomp isn't a great check to Lando or Slowbro as it can't switch in and has to lock itself into Outrage for the former while the latter can just fish for Scald burns while Garchomp boosts)
  7. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Well, you could also say you want to get the offensive pick out of the way first so you have a better idea of which counter will have the most synergy with the rest of the team. You said it yourself: "Neither of these picks are very offensive so it'll be fairly easy to find something dangerous that can switch in on them". This obviously means there are multiple Pokémon we can use as checks / counters to Slowbro and Jirachi, since there are so many checks / counters shouldn't we just choose the offensive pick first and then choose which of the many checks / counters synergise better with the team? I understand where you're coming from though. Finally, I said Garchomp is a check, I never said it's a great check :P
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    [​IMG]

    Venomoth @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Shield Dust
    EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 8 SpD / 96 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Sleep Powder
    - Baton Pass
    - Rest

    I don't know if it will work out, but i couldn't miss the chance of nominating such a cool set. Thanks to Shield Dust, Venomoth is one of the few Pokemon able to set-up on Jirachi without worrying about Icy Wind and Thunder, and with the given EVs, Iron Head fails to 2HKO while Venomoth proceeds to amass Quiver Dance boosts and pass them onto a teammate. The Speed EVs enable Venomoth to outspeed everything up to Jolteon at +1 (going for more is pointless, as even with max Speed Venomoth gets outsped by most scarfers) and the SpD EVs allow Venomoth to avoid the 2HKO from Landorus's Earth Power at +2. Sleep Powder makes Venomoth even more dangerous and ensures that no matter what the opponent picks, Venomoth will prove to be useful. This set easily sets up on Slowbro too, thanks to Quiver Dance and Rest that make Flamethrower and Thunder Wave non issues. Landorus can do nothing to Venomoth as well, as Earth Power fails to 2HKO +2 Venomoth (one QD as Landorus comes in, and another one as he attacks), which means that as of now the entire team 1 is helpless against Venomoth. While we currently lack a special sweeper, we have three slots to fit one or two of them, and some special sweepers are pretty easy to fit into teams anyway, such as Sheer Force Landorus (imagine a Landorus with a QD boost) and Keldeo.

    The only real problem with Venomoth is that it compounds our SR weakness, which is admittedly an issue, but i think we can limit the options of SR setters for team 1 with the right picks. If we go for Venomoth now, we can easily go for an offensive Starmie pick after, which acts as both a spinner and a sweeper with a QD boost.
  9. futuresuperstar

    futuresuperstar

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    You said it yourself--picking something that fully counters the recent picks and then going offensive is always a better choice. Also, with the utility and ability to actually defeat said Pokemon (rather than just "stop" them)... it's too good to pass up.

    And, this is why I would like to nominate Vaporeon!

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 SAtk / 176 SDef
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Heal Bell
    - Scald

    Enter specially defensive Vaporeon. Vaporeon has the ability to beat every member of Team 1 at the moment. Here is a basic breakdown of its merits:

    1) In a 1v1 setting, Vaporeon beats every single member of Team 1 right now.

    2) Specially defensive Vaporeon is a strong special wall. Meanwhile, all three members of Team 1 are specially-based, while Landorus' U-Turn and Jirachi's Iron Head do negligible damage.

    3) Here are some calculations to demonstrate Vaporeon's merits. Notice that I chose the given HP EVs and SDef EVs so as to always survive two Earth Powers from Landorus when switching into Stealth Rock. Likewise, 176 SDef EVs gives an extra bonus point. Even one less point in SDef would mean that Vaporeon could be 2HKO after Stealth Rock (though it would be incredibly unlikely). Likewise, it can survive 2 Thunders from Jirachi after Stealth Rock as well. The remaining EVs were dumped into special attack to give Scald a stronger bite.

    152 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Vaporeon: 158-188 (34.05 - 40.51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    80 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 71-84 (15.3 - 18.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock

    Meanwhile, Vaporeon can Protect to gain more Leftovers recovery, Wish to recover health, cure paralysis for itself and any other team member, and hit back with Scald (and potentially burn Jirachi, as well).

    80 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 200 HP / 0- SpD Jirachi: 112-133 (28.64 - 34.01%) -- 56.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    One-on-one, Jirachi simply can't break through Vaporeon without getting incredibly lucky with paralysis and a 70% accurate move.

    As for Landorus...

    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Vaporeon: 181-214 (39 - 46.12%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    4 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 121-143 (26.07 - 30.81%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

    Even with U-Turning away, Vaporeon can cast Wish and then either Protect to cure itself or pass a 232 HP Wish to a team member. It always survives two hits after stealth rock and, meanwhile...

    80 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 270-320 (84.63 - 100.31%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Vaporeon even has a slight chance to outright KO without Stealth Rock on the field.

    As for Slowbro, no calculations needed. Vaporeon will always beat Slowbro one-on-one, as it absorbs Scald. In any sort of stall match, Vaporeon will come out on top. But, more importantly, if Slowbro enters a stall match, it can't *do* anything. Vaporeon, on the other hand, can still pass Wish to the rest of the team.

    4) We've talked a fair bit about how Vaporeon stops Team 1. Now, let's talk about how it helps Team 2.
    - Team 1 relies on paralysis (Slowbro's Thunder Wave and Jirachi's Thunder) to open up opportunities for Landorus and other eventual forces to sweep. It cripples Terrakion and hinders Zapdos' ability to Roost off damage with its relative quickness. Not only does Vaporeon not care about Thunder Wave, itself, but it also has the ability to CURE the status of the team. Did Terrakion make a bad move and find itself paralyzed? Did Zapdos switch into a Scald from Slowbro and find itself burned? No problem. Vaporeon has ample opportunities to switch in and use Heal Bell, neutralizing a huge component of Team 1 as currently constructed.

    - Vaporeon gives Team 1 wish support, giving Terrakion and any other sweepers we eventually choose the ability to keep up with the health of Team 1 due to their defensive nature and Slowbro's Regenerator.

    - With Protect, Vaporeon can scout a switch from any VoltTurn games or choice users, healing with Leftovers and aiding Zapdos in a pseudo-switch game.

    - Due to its trait, Vaporeon can switch in on any water-based move, giving great synergy with Terrakion.

    - Speaking of synergy, Vaporeon resists Ice, which Team 2 currently lacks, and gives us a bulky water to match Slowbro.

    - Scald gives Vaporeon the ability to dish out damage and spread burns, giving Team 2 its own status-spreader.

    - Since Vaporeon completely stops every member of Team 1 *and* gives us a back-up measure against Landorus should Zapdos go down, all while ridding Team 2 of status and passing around wishes, our next pick for Team 2 can be 100% completely offensive with next to no regard for anything but raw speed and power. We won't have to worry so much about a sweeper susceptible to status, or a sweeper that relies on Life Orb in spite of recoil. Vaporeon can keep the team going. Meanwhile, it doesn't compound any team weaknesses other than grass (which Zapdos already resists), allowing us to maintain a healthy switching game.

    This pick is a cool pick, it's a fun pick, and it's a pick that allows us to do whatever the hell we want to do with our next pick.

    I'm absolutely open to suggestions for the set, by the way. While I feel we should definitely opt for specially-defensive Vaporeon, Vaporeon can definitely always run Toxic (easier time with Slowbro), Ice Beam (deters dragons, clean OHKO for Landorus), or Roar (passive damage, deters set-up sweepers).
  10. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    While Rotom-W seems great, and I agree with MM that an offensive version is advisable, I'm slightly concerned about being choice locked into something when every move Rotom-W has (bar Trick) is stopped by something Team 1 already has. Hydro Pump cannot 2HKO Slowbro without SR, but the true problem is locking ourselves into Volt Switch while they go to Landorus, which looks like a terrible situation. Since that Rotom will be using Volt Switch a lot, picking something that can be screwed so hard by a good prediction can be troublesome in my opinion, especially since we forced Team 1 to apply very little offensive pressure on us, so we are quite free in our choice. Maybe a non-choiced attacker set could be a better idea? Something like Volt Switch | Hydro Pump | WoW / Toxic | Pain Split with offensive oriented EVs could be a better solution? It still takes on everything Team 1 has with relative ease, can cripple or outright KO everything with the appropriate move, and doesn't have the issue of being choice locked. I was also wondering of a SubSplit variation, although I'd hate being walled by Gastrodon.

    On alexwolf's set, it's actually quite cool, but that SR weakness is a quite big deal to me. It would force us to pick a spinner somewhat, and Team 1 could take advantage of that with appropriate counterpicks (although I admit it would be quite cool passing a Quiver Dance or two to a LO Starmie...). It also restricts our future choices since we need to pick something that can take advantage of Quiver Dances, and we risk being forced in unwelcome situations (for example, besides Terrakion our team would be heavily based on special attacks (Zapdos, Venomoth, and our receiver) and that could maybe lead to a strong defensive pick like SpD Celebi or Blissey which would screw us quite a bit). I still need to think a bit harder on this set since it looks interesting, but it also looks too risky and could not capitalize the good position we forced Team 1 into.

    Vaporeon, while attractive, is not my favourite pick. It doesn't have anything to deal with things like CM Keldeo, that can just boost till it can KO Vaporeon (either with the help of Substitute or Lum Berry); every Grass type is also a problem, since they can easily set up Leech Seed or whatever they want on Vaporeon, and things like Celebi aren't even bothered by Zapdos. Seismitoad and Gastrodon are more or less in the same situation, and since they all fail to capitalize on the momentum we've gained in the picking process, I'd avoid those.

    The last remaining option is Garchomp. I agree with MM that the proposed set has a couple of problems that make it not our best choice. it cannot switch in on anything happily right now, and since ti has two set up moves, that's a bad news for him. It's also complete Skarmory / Bronzong bait, and to a lesser extent Mamoswine also, I suppose. I don't know if this is a good choice right now, the damage it can dish out is certainly impressive, but...its problems seem to outweight that by far.
  11. futuresuperstar

    futuresuperstar

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    If we're primarily worried about CM Keldeo (and other stat-up sweepers, in general), we do have the option of giving Vaporeon Roar instead of Heal Bell. It eliminates some of the utility Vaporeon brings to the table in exchange for different king of utility, really. I still like Vaporeon just because it opens up so many opportunities for the rest of the team regardless of what else Team 2 selects, but I understand the concern. That said, it's ultimately the same concern Team 1 had with Slowbro, except that Vaporeon can at least keep some semblance of momentum with Wish passing.
  12. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    Yeah, I meant something that counters the recent picks while remaining offensive itself.
    Gonna quote CrackinSkulls again (with some bolding) (open)



    That's a reasonable concern Ganj4lf and I wasn't sure myself if it would be an issue. The lack of Choice Specs could be a bit disappointing sometimes and I wasn't sure if I wanted to go LO. I figured Trick would be the compromise of sorts as it allows the Rotom user to throw away that Choice item if it gets too cumbersome. (I'll look into a LO Split set though and get back to you with the results)
  13. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Yes, but Slowbro was a forced pick (Terrakion), while Vaporeon could be easily replaced with an offensive pick since Team 1 is not applying much pressure right now. By picking Vaporeon you give up momentum, allow them to get free switches in case of a Grass / Dragon / Water switch-in (depending on what utility moves you decide to use) and bring utility which we don't know if it's needed or not (ok, they have Jirachi, but the're still in time to avoid picking status inducers, for example). The only defensive picks I can see working right now are hazard setters thanks to the pressure they apply anyway even being defensive. Everything else is best saved for when Team 1 will force us to pick reactively, so we don't end up having a team full of defensive mons before we really need to pick them...(hopefully this last sentence is understandable).
  14. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Maybe you could try an offensive Expert Belt set? It would be rather difficult to counter and, without Life Orb, Rotom-W wouldn't be worn down so easily, and it doesn't suffer the issue Ganj4lf brought up about the choice sets. Maybe something like Volt Switch / Hydro Pump / Signal Beam / Hidden Power [Grass]. For the last slot you could run HP Fire / Ice or for either of the last 2 slots you could run a status move like Toxic, Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave, and there's always the option of Pain Split for recovery. Signal Beam and HP Grass just seem best because Celebi will be a surefire counter without Signal Beam, and although statuses work well against the likes of Gastrodon, the offensive option just does the job the best and the quickest, and it probably suits the set the best. Just an idea I thought of, I hope it helps :)
  15. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    Shoot, that's a really good idea. The coverage is pretty swell and it does everything we need Rotom-W to do. I'll edit my Specs post with Ebelt 4 attacks, thanks.

    Oh and the reason why I think it's better to counter first and then make the free pick is because the counter pick needs to be made for the team to be successful. It's easier to make sure the free pick synergizes with it than the counter pick synergize with the free one since the list of counters are limited while the free pick is free. (there are cases where I think there would be exceptions, like near the end where you are more voting in pairs than specific sets)

    Edit: Yep, that's fine I'll make sure to include your vote in the tally.
  16. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Awesome, I'm glad I helped! And yeah, I always saw where you were coming from.

    Btw, I'm actually going on a holiday tomorrow and I'll have no Internet access whatsoever, because of this I'll miss the vote for this round. Is it ok if I just say I'm voting for your Expert Belt Rotom-W now, and you just add that on along with the rest of the votes? However, I do understand if That's not aloud.
  17. MX42

    MX42

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    I know, fucked up on that. Would have changed it sooner.
  18. tintinwong

    tintinwong

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    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 SDef / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Secret Sword

    I would like to suggest the offensive calm mind set for Keldeo.
    Keldeo can set up a calm mind on landorus, or outright kill it with a surf.
    At +1, Keldeo 2hkos the other 2 pokemon
    Slowbro gets outsped and 2hkoed by hp ghost, so even if it tries to slack off, it would still die.
    Surf is a solid 2hko on the rachi, while rachi 3hkos keldeo even with thunder.
    Keldeo is a prominent special sweeper, and like terrakion, it is a monster.
  19. D i a b l o

    D i a b l o Guest

    [​IMG]

    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power

    Why this Pokèmon?
    Okay, I chose this pokémon for the ability to create many problems to the opposing team.
    Thanks to its enormous statistics, both on attack and defense, turn it into an excellent wallbreacker which, combined with its convenient coverage makes it a pokémon that it can be killed only in revenge-kill.

    Why this Moveset?
    I chose this moveset because it makes Kyurem-B a wallbreacker to 100% and also with this is able to smash by only the team n.1.
    Draco Meteor, that is the MainStab, allows him to hit Slowbro, expecting the physical set and paired with Earth Power also creates lots of inconvenience to Jirachi (which is the main "switch-in" on Kyurem-b). Ice Beam is for Landorus (also Therian) which thanks to its investment in speed, it is able to surpasses him.
    The latest move, instead, is Fusion Bolt that completes the coverage of this powerful pokémon.
  20. jidan

    jidan

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    In my opinion starmie can be consider a dangerous pike for team 1, in order to his great speed with 2 power moves that make ingent damage to same opponent pike: Scald and Thunderbolt.
    We have also the possibility to anoying the oppo whith burn up ad cripple so as to facilitates my sweeping.
    Starmie's arsenal is not finished yet becouse it have olso a good recovery move, Recover, that make stability and longevity to the star allowing switch-in with more tranquillity; the last move, but not for importance, is Rapid spin that helps the entire team against the e.h. and in particular the sweeping of zapdos.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunderbolt
    - Scald

    Spread to overcame Scarfmodest politoed, the other in Att sp and Hp.
  21. Homeslice

    Homeslice

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    Starmie is going to be outright stopped by Landorus U-Turn or Jirachi's Thunder. That Starmie is also an odd choice, considering it's niche is an Offensive Spinner with access to BoltBeam, but you have Scald and Recover along with Rapid Spin. If you were going to nominate Starmie (which I don't think you should) you need to do three things. First, decide if you want Life Orb/Recover or Leftovers/Rapid Spin and then add Ice Beam in the open slot to help deal with Landorus. Having both pretty much halves Starmie's usefulness. Second, decide if you want Surf, Hydro Pump, or Scald. I would personally not choose Scald, as Starmie enjoys the outright power and isn't really there to stall. Lastly, Switch the nature to modest and take the EV's out of HP and back into Speed. There's no Alakazam or Dugtrio you'll need to be outspeeding, especially Dugtrio. I don't see that happening.
  22. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    Jirachi can come in on Kyurem after it has taken a kill and proceed to flinch him to death. Also, your Kyurem is susceptible to Mach punch
  23. Dakar

    Dakar

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    I'm a little new to this thread, but I've read through all of the posts (A pretty daunting task, IMO), and I just wanted to point out that the suggested Venomoth would be complete Taunt/Trick bait for Team 2, allowing them to pick something like Rotom-W or Gothitelle (Or even a surprise Latios) to Trick it into oblivion for the rest of the match.

    So I don't double-post, here's my submission for this round:

    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Ice Punch

    This Conkeldurr is not your common BU Conk, and is able to counter a variety of more threats.

    What does it bring to the table?
    Well, in terms of pure statistics, this Conkeldurr is able to survive hits that an average Conkeldurr only dreams to survive. In the critical OHKO range, it is able to take an Earth Power from Landy-I, and OHKO back with Ice Punch. It can also survive hits from Psyshock Alakazam, Victini, Heatran, Rain Volcarona, Latios, and...Jellicent! It's one main counter, assuming it's running Water Spout, can't OHKO, and Conkeldurr has a 43.75% chance to OHKO back at +1. Typical Scald Jellicent have an even worse time countering, and the chance of a Guts boost is even better. Against the opposing team's Slowbro, all 3 of its attacks give an oppritunity for Guts, and multiple Bulk Ups. Against Jirachi, parahax once again works against it. For example:

    152 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 120 HP / 136+ SpD Conkeldurr: 107-127 (28.08 - 33.33%) -- possible 4HKO

    ...allowing for the opportunity to set up 2 or more BU's, and possibly giving Guts, while Drain Punch will heal most of the damage off.

    How does it help our team?

    Well, to put it simply, it counters Zapdos's counters, and Zapdos counters its. The Rock- and Ice types that plague Zapdos are easily threatened out or DPunch'd to death by Conkeldurr, and Conk's special threats are easily disposed of by Zapdos. Tornadus-I, Alakazam, Specs Politoed all are walled by Zapdos, who can Volt switch back into Conk once the threat is eliminated.

    All in all, this Conkeldurr is hard to get rid of, and with the team support that already exists it is able to not only check the opposing team, but also make their future picks much more difficult.
  24. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    376
    Edit: set was submitted lol

    Personally i think Seismitoad is a good bet. But gastro is pretty close
  25. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    775
    Conkeldurr may actually be a decent choice, but I don't like its general likelihood to fail and let Team 2 down. While it's true Jirachi can't do much to it, it's also true that a paralysis on the switch-in makes paraflinching Conkeldurr to death a viable solution for Team 1, and even if the odds of doing so are not incredibly high, it's still a possibility I'd rather avoid (Conkeldurr is 3HKO'd by Iron Head after taking a Thunder, with everything reasonable factored in - SR, Leftovers - and in my experience, that could be very well happen). Also, Landorus still deals an unhealthy amount of damage, so the only occasion to switch in which is relatively risk free is Slowbro. Your particular set is also subject to counterpick (bulky Psychics, like Reuniclus, wall it cold), however this is true for any pick I guess, so it's a weak argument. However, in my opinion, the opportunity of picking Rotom-W is very attractive compared to this one, since it immediately threatens things, and doesn't need to set up (while also taking hits better compared to Conkeldurr).

    The voting phase will begin in a few hours. Make sure to submit your set if you didn't have the chance yet.

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