Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]

[vyomov]

@vyomov: Actually, the Garchomp set was suggested the round before by The Great Mighty Doom. (which explains some of the PMs) It was discussed a fair amount then and eventually decided that it wasn't the best choice at that point in the process because it failed to counter the opposing picks. Funnily enough, as the last round came in Ganj4lf suggested that we focus on picking a SR setter (which was mostly ignored which is why there wasn't much discussion on the picks that lacked SR.) and with the pick before hand now in the picture it turns out that Garchomp had excellent synergy with it while accomplishing the desired goal of setting up SR. Too be honest, though, just about every pick got some feedback of some sort.

Disabling self voting is unnecessary as it should cancel eachother out. Besides, Garchomp didn't receive any self votes (unless you want to count TGMD) so it wasn't even an issue this round anyways. (in a smaller voting pool or one where most of the voters are just voting their own sets it would be understandable but this has yet to occur so far)



Concerning Haxorus: Having a Choice Scarf mon is an interesting point of discussion so I might not even lodge my usual complaint of "it fails to counter the other team's picks". However, the main concern for me right now is that, although powerful, it is just reinforcing the viability of a SpDef Skarm pick for Team 2 which is something we want to avoid. That set already walls and sets up on almost the entire team (Lando is a bit shaky for it to switchin in on however Lando can't do anything trying to come in on it.) and provides Spikes so we'll definitely want to avoid encouraging it.

Ah, I see, I did go back and see the earlier posts.
However, I'm still concerned that sets like Agility Thundurus-T just went without notice but hopefully that won't happen again this round.
Re Haxorus: I agree with Melee Mewtwo here, Skarmory already walls a lot of the team and no, we can't exactly deal with it in a counter-pick because Slowbro forms a good core.
A couple of good options are available in both offensive ways to tackle Chomp as well as defensive:
Offensive:
Abomasnow(Ice Shard can 2HKO and Aboma can take a hit), Salamence(Intimidate on Earthquake, switch out for Jirachi and wall), Weavile(OHKOes), etc.
Defensive:
Skarmory and Bronzong, Cresselia, etc.
I'll wait for some discussion before posting a set.
However, what do you guys think of a Dual Screens Cresselia? I think it could be quite viable and can serve as a cleric(Psychic,Light Screen, Reflect, Lunar Dance) or only set up Reflect and carry Ice Beam.

 

[MMII]

Cresselia is also Spdef Skarm weak as well as Zong and, to an extent, Skarmory. Weavile as well and Abomasnow will have to be careful about its set.

I think the best way to deal with Chomp is to abuse the locking Outrage and find a good mon with Balloon. (Heatran would work but it's crap against the rest of Team 2)

 

[Reymedy]

Hide

Okay at this point, I can see a pokemon being just clearly the best solution :

Breloom @ Life Orb
Technician
72 HP / 240 Atk / 8 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Stone Edge
- Mach Punch
- Spore


All out Breloom.
Outspeed et OHKO Zapdos after SR with Stone Edge.
Outspeed et OHKO Rotom-W with Bullet Seed.
Check Terrakion with Mach Punch, 56% to OHKO after SR and a clean OHKO if Def drop.

And, on top of that, Breloom has Spore, meaning that no matter what they pick in the future, unless they get a Natural Cure (and even, if you play around, it's still a 50/50 game, and Celebi is already pretty screwed by Landorus), they will have to Sleep sac something, which is useful.
Breloom walls totally Breloom at the moment, the best Rotom-W can do trying to 3HKO him with Signal Beam.
Breloom + Landorus U-Turn is a brutal offensive core.
My prediction being, the more they will try to shut down Breloom, the more they will be weak to a particular coverage combination.


And we could get this FWG core later OMG :nerd:

EDIT : Might edit later, since I just realised that a wild chomp appeared (not updated first post :|)

And he edits now, what a sneaky CTP host.

Now, I feel like hustling :

HustleR @ Insect Plate
HUSTLE
252 Atk / 8 Def / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claw
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Rock Slide


He could set-up on Chomp since he takes an EQ like np. If this real G gets a Hone Claw it's basically " Double G" :

- He outspeeds Terrakion and OHKO
- He outspeeds Zapdos and OHKO after Hone Claw
- He outspeeds Rotom-W and OHKO after Hone Claw
- He outspeeds Garchomp and OHKO after Hone Claw

What we get next ? Something to FORCE Terrakion to use X-Scissor and it's gonna be "Hey, if you X-Scissor my Celebi, I'll sweep you with my hustler" !
To be honest, Latios will probably be the pokemon that everybody will chose this round, but he's not a gansta and he can get trapped (omfg this shitty arguement).

 

[vyomov]

Just a note, if we select Durant, Magenzone makes Team 1 VERY unstable as Garchomp deals with most of Magnezone's counters easily and together they form a formidable core.
Durant has bad typing and although not a bad mon, would prefer something a wee bit bulkier at this point of time considering we already have Landorus for offensive power.
Speaking of which Magnezone isn't a bad idea. Agreed, it doesn't check Garchomp Earthquake but can easily take a Outrage and OHKO with HP Ice. It also prevents SpDef Skarmory which Melee Mewtwo is so worried about.

 

[Reymedy]

I keep hearing those Magnezone/Gothitelle/Whatever arguements and they were always big fails from what I saw. They usually are more like attempts to discard nominations for no relevant reason. It's like saying "Don't pick Chomp or Scarf Gothi with HP Ice will rape us !".
Check Jirachi's set, Magnezone is a poor choice for team 2 at the moment if we take Durant, there are tons of better picks and if you're really confident about your logic, vote for Durant, and I'll vote for your Magnezone later, just to see the outcome :D
By the way, your formidable core is a bit weak to any ice shard user, to any Latios with HP Fire, to any Keldeo, to any...

Anyway, I think you're confusing the teams so your comment is pretty messy (talking about Zone in team 2, then in team 1 -no steel in team 2 so wtf-????).

TL;DR: Drop those trappers criticsms unless they are really relevant. A trapper's set exists for every single pokemon in the game, no need to point it out for each nomination.

EDIT : Did you just said that Insect/Steel is a bad typing ?

 

[vyomov]

Firstly, I'm not saying Durant is bad at all, so relax!
Secondly, I MIGHT put up Magnezone but as I said, I want to discuss stuff first.
Thirdly, picking Magnezone would be PRE-EMPTIVE to prevent Team 2 from picking SpDef Skarmory which otherwise walls the team.
Durant's typing is 4x weak to Fire if you didn't notice, so Zapdos OHKOes with Heat Wave. It has a lot of good resists but HP Fire on anything will OHKO(considering awful defenses of Durant, neutral stuff can as well like this: Venomoth (OU Quiver Dance Sweeper) Bug Buzz 102.71 - 121.31% despite resist)
Ice shard? How does that hit Magnezone, with 115 Defense and resist Hard? Keldoe can't switch into a Magnezone thunderbolt : 252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 338-402 (87.56 - 104.14%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
And that's with 252 HP, which almost NO set carries. With 0HP/4SpD(far more common): 252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 338-402 (104.64 - 124.45%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So how in the world does Keldeo beat both?
The point isn't just that it traps Durant: it happens to trap Jirachi as well, and can easily beat Slowbro too. Having three mons on one team weak to one mon doesn't sound very appealing.

 

[Reymedy]

Who cares about Skarmory, he may wall a part of the team for now (yes, we will pick other mons) but he's the typical "worst nomination ever" prototype. Getting SR thanks to Sturdy is all he can do, don't shake Skarmory as a red flag, it's a bad habbit (bit like the "omfg Gothi").

Yes Durant is weak to Fire. Every single mon is weak to something, saying "X is weak to Fire/Water/..." is just ridiculous.
I said Ice Shard users, think about it.
Keldeo can't switch what ? Did I speak about switching it, Keldeo outspeeds and kills your core. I can't see if you're really thinking that your arguement is good, or if you try it like "maybe he won't realise how shaky it is".
And pokemon isn't about switching in, it's not the "Stall that pokemon" project.

Jirachi OHKO Zone.

 

[MMII]

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 8 Def Durant: 192-227 (74.7 - 88.32%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That makes it a pretty poor check to Garchomp as it can't even OHKO with its 80% accuracy X-Scissor. On top of that, it is still Spdef Skarm weak.

Breloom is a cool idea for handling Rotom but it's too fragile for it to be of much use in countering Garchomp. (It's already kinda fragile when it comes to eating repeated Volt-Switches)


No, Skarm is far more than a Sturdy SR setter. It currently walls the entirety of Team 1 and can setup Spikes. That's a big deal.

 

[Drako]

At the current state it is important to not get pressured too much. That's why I would like to nominate a Pokemon with very good coverage:

Azelf @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- U-turn
- Fire Punch
- Zen Headbutt

252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Ice Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Zapdos: 61,98% - 72,92% (2 hits to KO)

252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Ice Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Garchomp: 122,13% - 143,42% (Guaranteed OHKO)

252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Zen Headbutt vs 0 HP/0 Def Terrakion: 112,38% - 132,82% (Guaranteed OHKO)

252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Zen Headbutt vs 248 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 51,49% - 60,73% (2 hits to KO)

252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Zen Headbutt vs 0 HP/0 Def Garchomp: 48,74% - 57,14% (2 hits to KO with Rocks)

252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Zen Headbutt vs 252 HP/0 Def Zapdos: 49,48% - 58,07% (2 hits to KO with Rocks)

Basically, Azelf threatens to OHKO/2HKO the entire team 2. U-turn allows Azelf to escape from counters if team 2 decides to choose one. I threw Fire Punch in there in case Team 2 chooses CB Scizor as their next poke (which would threaten team 1 in a major way) so that it's always a 50/50 chance: either scizor dies or slowbro/rachi eat up the bullet punch.
I don't think it would be wise to chose another slow member just to counter Chomp. Azelf outspeeds most of the OU metagame and I think it would be a decent add on to Team 1.
Any criticism is appreciated!

 

[MMII]

I'm not opposed to the idea. Levitate means that Garchomp can't do anything to get past Azelf without Outraging. However, for this indirect approach to work Team 1 will need something that can revenge kill the locked Garchomp and the ground immune Pokemon (in this case Azelf) will need to such strong pressure that it becomes difficult to simply switch out and exploit it. So far Azelf accomplishes this as far as the current lineup is concerned, however, it doesn't have the strongest coverage so something like Heatran (might be more out there, first off the top of my head) could take advantage of it.

 

[Reymedy]

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 8 Def Durant: 192-227 (74.7 - 88.32%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That makes it a pretty poor check to Garchomp as it can't even OHKO with its 80% accuracy X-Scissor. On top of that, it is still Spdef Skarm weak.

Breloom is a cool idea for handling Rotom but it's too fragile for it to be of much use in countering Garchomp. (It's already kinda fragile when it comes to eating repeated Volt-Switches)


No, Skarm is far more than a Sturdy SR setter. It currently walls the entirety of Team 1 and can setup Spikes. That's a big deal.

Calc proves nothing, all I need is to be able to take one hit. Period.
I outspeed and OHKO everything after.
Hone Claw increases accuracy.
Called passiv pressure, when you play offensive pokemons you use it as a defense instead of walling stuff.
Don't adopt stall team's line of logic to judge offensive pokemons or you will end up making irrelevant points.

Refer to my past post for SpD Skarm only attack move Brave Bird set up, taunt rapid spin, weak SpD bulk w/e.

I can make short bullet points too, and it's frustrating for those who have to read it.

 

[vyomov]

Yes, all "you" need is to be able to take one hit, but with 58 HP and 48 Special Defense, you can't tank resisted hits, let alone supereffective ones.
Example: Venomoth (OU Quiver Dance Sweeper) Bug Buzz 102.71 - 121.31%
Any pokemon with remotely good special attack can OHKO Durant.
On Azelf, I really like the set, it tackles a lot of stuff! Just a suggestion, why not go for 4 HP, it helps against both special and physical attacks and 4 EVs really doesn't make much difference anyways.

 

[MMII]

Except that in this project, they are just going to counter your pick. So if they can easily switch into you and you can't switch in anywhere then that Durant will end up being dead weight. You have to have a bulky offense approach in this project, that is you can switch in directly and immediately pressure any switch ins. Your typical Stall is too easy to exploit and typical Offense is too easy to counter. Knowing the sets changes everything, nothing is going to be allowed to just outright sweep anymore than anything defensive not taken advantage of.

 

[Drako]

@ vyomov

An odd HP number lets you switch in on stealth rock 1 additional time if necessary but it is really just a matter of preference.
Btw, is there an IV number that's good for HP to minimize Life Orb recoil just like the 29 IVs for Mamoswine for example? I'm not that great at such things so I'm asking if this could pay off at all.

 

[vyomov]

Just a note, we already have a free switch-in to Earthquake(Landorus) so the main thing we need is a steel type capable of walling Outrage, killing back and also dealing with Skarmory.
With this in mind, this is my set:

Magnezone@Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Def
Nature: Modest
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Charge Beam/Flash Cannon(Open to discussion)
- Substitute/Magnet Rise(Again, Open to discussion)
The objective of this set is simple:
a) Wall Garchomp Outrage(we have a switch into Earthquake so no worries there)
b) Beat Skarmory before it sets up too many layers of Spikes
Thunderbolt is an amazing STAB with 252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 282-332 (86.23 - 101.52%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. This means so long as our last pick can set up SR, Skarmory is gone. Even if not, with Sturdy active Skarmory will only set one layer of Spikes, crucial to the success of the team.
HP Ice OHKOes Garchomp: 252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 352-416 (98.32 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. Do take into account Garchomp is locked into Outrage and hence after LO recoil the outcome is the same.
Charge Beam can help it set up once Garchomp is out of the way, while Flash Cannon offers key coverage vs Ttar and other Rock or Ice types.
Lastly, Magnet Rise can be a good move if Garchomp switches in as Garchomp, predicting the switch to Landorus, might decide to Swords Dance: if it does, Magnet Rise means Garchomp is suddenly gone.
Substitute is to prevent status.

 

[Reymedy]

Except that in this project, they are just going to counter your pick. So if they can easily switch into you and you can't switch in anywhere then that Durant will end up being dead weight. You have to have a bulky offense approach in this project, that is you can switch in directly and immediately pressure any switch ins. Your typical Stall is too easy to exploit and typical Offense is too easy to counter. Knowing the sets changes everything, nothing is going to be allowed to just outright sweep anymore than anything defensive not taken advantage of.

You make a mistake in your line of logic.
Taking an offensive pokemon does not mean that you will take only offensive pokemons afterward. Bulky Offense teams have all out or set-up pokemons too. So your point is wrong, and discarding a nomination because it's "too defensive" or "too offensive" (what you do every single turn basically, and I believe that I could take as example of you using this poorly-made argument, every single nomination that I posted in both CTP) is something that is toxic for the debate (but it works well).
Watch the team, do you really think that we will end up having a HO. I never saw a HO using Slowbro, but if you got one, share it.
So it's not about "approach" or "playstyle" it's about judging a pokemon on what he's supposed to do.

For vyomov I give up, re-read the posts I made because we're going in circles if your plan is to repeat the irrelevant stuff you made over and over.

TL;DR : Durant is an offensive pokemon whose role is to OHKO everybody after a set--up turn on Chomp. He is not meant to take hits from the others pokemons (or you missplayed). So deal with it, and criticize him as you would criticize an offensive pokemon (because that's what he is).

EDIT : And don't calc with SR since SR is on Chomp <.<

For the post under : It can not counter (strictly), but outspeed and KO the whole team, which is okay for me.

 

[MMII]

Vyomov, can you please find a smaller image. The one you are currently using is stretching the page and is very annoying for those reading the thread.

Actually, Remedy, my personal criteria for judging picks is actually pretty simple. There are two things I look for:
1. The pick counters the recent additions to the opposing team. (this can be ignored if a pick before already covered both threats)
2. That the pick is as difficult to exploit as possible. (Normally, this will be through raw power and/or coverage but that isn't always available so I go for the best we got.)

I've been pretty consistent on this (after the Custap Forry submission) and it is, again, the same reasons I criticize your Durant. It can not counter any of the recent additions nor is it difficult to exploit as it reinforces an already strong Skarmory weakness.

 

[Drako]

Btw, for Azelf I could also put Thunderbolt over Fire Punch if Skarmory really is of such concern. Unfortunately, as I stated before, Scizor could become a major threat without fire coverage.

0 SpAtk Life Orb Azelf Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 58,68% - 68,86% (2 hits to KO)

0 SpAtk Life Orb Azelf Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Skarmory: 86,23% - 101,8% (12,5% chance to OHKO)

 

[MMII]

Well, I'm not sure what currently walls Azelf. Ideally, you will want to make sure that the group of counters is as small as possible, that SpDef Skarm is not found anywhere among them (physical Skarm is okay) and that the actual counters fare poorly against the rest of Team 1.

Oh, and as for the Magnezone suggestion. Although Skarm is a very real threat, it isn't present on the opposing team yet which means that picking Magnezone now allows them to opt for something else or simply throw a Shed Shell on.

 

[dragontamer74pe]

Tbh at this point we most likely need a scarfer or a stealth rocker in order to give our final pick as much freedom as we can. As much as I love Durant this is why I wouldn't vote for it. Magnezone, apart from the picture stretching my screen so could we have a normal sprite plz, doesn't fit either of those too. The stealth rocker or scarfer also needs to be hard to switch into so I choose:

Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Trait: Justified
Evs: 4hp / 252 attack / 252 speed
Nature: Jolly
Swords dance
Close combat
Stone edge
Stealth rock

This solves one of the things we need instantly and also we sweep at +2 atm. If they do pick a poke that beats Terrakion then we can always set up rocks. We currently outspeed every member of team 2 atm and can ko them all at +2 (ik there Terrakion is a speed tie). We can also setup on any Terrakion locked into any move bar cc which other pokes don't mind taking (slowbro, Landorus (sort of)). <brackets ftw lol. Setting up stealth rock is actually pretty hard to do except Terrakion gets it up because of fear.
With Terrakion up we'll need a steel and steel or another 2 pokes that can ko/cripple Terrakion. The thing is though that chomp will struggle to have rocks up and be at +2 so slowbro can hope to scald burn and if not we can check it with Terrakion. We'll also most likely have another poke to revenge it too. Guess what everyone who is saying that this poke is trappable or specially defensive skarm weak! This isn't. Gothitelle loves +2 stone edges and dugtrio can't get enough of them either. Wobb can be annoying but can't trap him and he can easily beat skarm if at +2. This also offers us some speed outside of our scarfer (remember team 2 last time?). All these factors make me think Terrakion is a good pick for team 1 atm.

 

[futuresuperstar]

While Skarmory may be something that can take the Outrages that something like Haxorus throws around, Outrage still does between 26-31% to specially defensive Skarmory. Admittedly, it's not the best, but it's not like Skarmory can come in and take two hits no problem unless it's healthy. Also, for it to continue to cause a problem, it needs Leftovers, which means that its pretty hardcore Magnezone bait (which is a decent 'mon for Team 1, as well).

Our next pick can also deter a Skarmory counter-pick.

There isn't much that can deal with a Scarf Haxorus that works well with Team 2's current construction, and by forcing their hand into only a few viable options, Team 1's fifth pick can pre-emptively punish them.

I think it's imperative right now that we pick something with either high speed or priority for revenging and cleaning up a weakened team, because Team 1 doesn't have much speed right now without relying on paralysis nor enough defense or raw power to make up for it. It relies on coverage and intelligent switching while not really taking advantage of its ability to get 'mons in safely with Regenerator and U-Turn.

As much as a like the power of Dragon Dance or Choice Band (or the utility of Taunt), I think the scarf really is more appropriate for Team 1 right now.

Aside from Haxorus, my favorite pick is Azelf, since it gives us that speed and decent hitting power. Though I'm not the biggest fan of it doubling up on our Pursuit weakness to a pick like Weavile, which could OHKO 3/4 of our team without breaking a sweat. And Jirachi wouldn't be stopping it for long due to the lack of Leftovers and significant defensive investment.

 

[Homeslice]

Calc proves nothing, all I need is to be able to take one hit. Period.
I outspeed and OHKO everything after.
Hone Claw increases accuracy.
Called passiv pressure, when you play offensive pokemons you use it as a defense instead of walling stuff.
Don't adopt stall team's line of logic to judge offensive pokemons or you will end up making irrelevant points.

Refer to my past post for SpD Skarm only attack move Brave Bird set up, taunt rapid spin, weak SpD bulk w/e.

I can make short bullet points too, and it's frustrating for those who have to read it.

+1 252 Atk Insect Plate Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 325-384 (90.78 - 107.26%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Oh hey, you don't OHKO guaranteed. That's crucial to your argument. So take that and add this in:

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 8 Def Durant: 192-227 (74.7 - 88.32%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And factor in Rough Skin. Rough Skin takes away another 16 HP. Which gives you this.

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 8 Def Durant: 192-227 (79.66 - 94.19%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

You're argument is stronger in case that you're going to attack twice than set-up first. But that leaves you vunerable to just about anything faster, which is all base 109's max speed (tying 108's max speed aka Terrakion) due to your EV spread. It's insanely easy to check right now with Garchomp and Terrakion. Even if it does get picked, you could throw in anything faster than it with a fire coverage move and it will work. If you look at the faster Pokemon in OU you'll notice that for the most part they're special attackers. It's a bad pick, we could even throw in Toxicroak or Lucario and have them Vacuum Wave it to stop it, it's way too easily to counter.

Also, quick note about the Magnezone set: It's awful. There's no reason Magnezone shouldn't be running Hidden Power Fire, it loses all of it's reliability afterwards. Also, the EV's make it outran by pretty much everything. Give it 220 Speed EV's from the Def and HP EVs so it can outspeed Scizor, which makes the list of things it outspeeds Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory, the Pokemon it can actually take advantage of. I also prefer the Choice Specs or Choice Scarf variants, but that's just me, I don't care about the moveset other than HP Fire.

 

[Reymedy]

Ye so Chomp sets SR, attacks and all, I didnt know he had the ability to do several actions the same turn.
I leave it to you, eternal theorymoners, have fun.

EDIT : And no, it's not a speed tie, theorymon correctly at least.

 

[G-Von]

Damn it, Remedy and futuresuperstar nominated my two favorite gen 5 pokemon >_< its going to be tough to nominate something since both of them are physical attacking powerhouses. I think I know who to nominate next, but I will need some time which moveset to go with. Personally I would probably go with Durant>Haxorus at this point in the set submissions.

 

[dragontamer74pe]

The problem with remedy's set is, as much as I like it, it doesn't set up rocks and doesn't wear a scarf to revenge kill with. We should get these 2 picks done now in order to give our final pick more freedom. Not many scarfers can ohko an entire team and none if the team has any bulk (bar ubers). Forcing our final poke to set up stealth rock is a pain too as we lose the biggest advantage we have. We have 3 picks left and these 2 should be a scarfer and rocks and then the 6th poke has as much freedom as it likes to do whatever (why was infernape do successful?) I'm fine with futuresuperstar's pick (although I'd prefer a quicker scarfer but u can get everything I guess) but none of the others fit either. I'd rather pick a sweeper that beats 6 pokes and is unprepared for than one that only beats 4.