1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Counter That Pokemon! Won By FlareBlitz (Team 2)

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Nov 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,024
    What's up UUers. I feel bad that I'm denying you the rip-roaring fun that is a UU CCAT, so to make up for it I'm stealing an idea from Philip7086. The game is called Counter That Pokemon! (obviously). It's similar to CCAT but it doesn't try to build a team that's going to go out and beast the metagame, but rather a team that simply beats the other team that's created. That's right, in Counter That Pokemon! two teams are made using user submitted sets that are geared both towards countering the other team and providing solid support/teammates to the rest of its own team.

    I'm still trying to work out a system that'll work best for voting without the ability to upvote, but I'm thinking a poll system will work fine, where I take the best sets and put them up to vote for a day (or earlier if the vote is a blowout).

    So for the first day, just submit a full set (evs, nature, etc) that you'd like to see Team 1 built around (one submission a day per user)! Provide some reasoning too for why users should choose your set. After it's voted on and decided, then we'll pick the first Pokemon for team 2 (the structure is 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1).

    Team 1: http://pastebin.com/930gcutZ
    Team 2: http://pastebin.com/Ex4S7TUR

    Snunch (1), kd24 (2), FlareBlitz (2 + tiebreaker), fatty (2), tof (1), reachzero (1), HeYsUp (3)

    Also, did I mention the two users who have the most sets chosen to be on the team will battle each other using the two teams that are created?

    Get to it!
  2. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,618
    Well let's start with a Pokemon that has very few counters and that most people want gone.

    Alakazam @Life orb
    Timid/Modest
    4HP / 252 HP / 252 Spe
    Psychic
    Grass Knot
    Focus Blast
    Substitute
  3. Snunch

    Snunch
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 8th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,074
    The first pokemon chosen should be a solid pokemon that is downright impossible to completely shut down. What I mean is, if we went for a powerful pokemon like Alakazam or a gimmick mon like (insert dumb gimmick mon here), team 2 would use spiritomb or (insert dumb gimmick mon's hard counter here) and team 1 would be at a huge disadvantage. My first instinct was to start with a fast, bulky pokemon to get up hazards early like Deoxys-D, but it would be easy for team 2 to simply use a Xatu. What team 1 needs is a powerful, dangerous threat that can incapacitate its hard counters through smart play. A pokemon that, even if your opponent is completely prepared and knows what your set is, still has to play very well against in order to keep some sort of advantage. IMO, the best choice for this is LO Roserade.

    EDIT: Didn't mean to call out the above poster or anything with the Zam statement, I just took too long to post

    Roserade @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder
    - Rest

    LO Roserade can switch in fairly easily in this metagame (really, it will be almost impossible for team 2 to be made without a pokemon that Roserade can switch in on), it can threaten with one of the most powerful special attacks in the UU tier, and even if team 2 carries an otherwise hard counter, that counter will risk being put to sleep every time it comes in, which effectively renders it useless in BW. A great starting point for a team that will be directly counterteamed.
  4. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,154
    Darmanitan @ Life orb
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Superpower
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    The majority of Darmanitan's are scarfed, so I thought it would be cool to mix things up a little and use a LO set. This was one of the sets that I theorymoned a while back that would end up breaking UU. While it hasn't been groundbreaking, it can still pretty much 2HKO all of its standard checks (bulky waters + rhyperior) and its pretty much impossible to straight up wall.

    Damage calculations(adamant)
    Flare Blitz vs Milotic: 48.3% - 57% | Superpower vs Milotic: 49.6% - 58.5%
    Flare Blitz vs Blastoise: 45% - 53% | Superpower vs Blastoise: 46.4% - 54.7%
    Flare Blitz vs 160 hp Rhyperior: 43.1% - 50.6% | Superpower vs Rhyperior: 65.9% - 78.1%
    Flare Blitz vs Hippowdon: 57.9% - 68.1%
  5. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,279
    Venomoth (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Quiver Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Sleep Powder
    - Baton Pass / Roost

    this will become an age old tradition, but venomoth is an excellent choice - his ability to hit almost everything in the tier neutral off 306 Special Attack, Quiver Dance (2 of which allow him to outspeed Stoutland), and of course Sleep Powder.

    Venomoth makes an excellent team partner and sweeper and would be a great choice to build around
  6. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    492
    Okay here is my submission, the overlooked but deceptively powerful

    Nidoqueen @Black Sludge
    Trait: Sheer Force
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Dragon Tail
    ~ Toxic Spikes

    - Immune to both poison and electric, absorbs toxic spikes and is impossible to toxic/paralyze with thunder wave
    - Adequate physical bulk allows her to switch in to most fighting/bug/rock types and force them out + set up (she also completely hard counters subroost toxic zapdos)
    - Even uninvested, sheer force boosted stab earth power alongside ice beam provide exceptional coverage and power for a supposed supporter, giving her effectively just over 100 base special attack
    - A sturdy, durable phazer which can rack up some serious hazard damage.
  7. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,243
    c/p'd from the analysis

    Machamp!
    name: Sub + 3 Attacks
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Dynamicpunch
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Ice Punch / Thunderpunch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

    - very good stallbreaker
    - beastly attack destroys most things that don't resist its moves
    - confusion hax = fun!
  8. LMK

    LMK

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd (or max if you fear other kingdra)
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Rain Dance
    - Draco Meteor
    - Waterfall
    - Hydro Pump

    - Does an incredible job of punching holes midgame
    - A good stand alone counter to the prevalent sand teams
    - Stands a great chance at beat opposing rain teams
    - Excellent offensive coverage

    Kingdra really is a beast. Once Empoleon is removed she can cripple a team in just four turns with modest hazard support (SR). And unlike many pokemon she actually has some bulk so if necessary can be switched into battle without suffering a 1HKO.
  9. jamashawalker

    jamashawalker

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    606
    Kingdra @ Chesto Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 184 HP/ 160 AtK/ 164 Spe
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk/-Sp Atk)
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Outrage
    -Rest


    Your looking at a poke that just won't die!! with just two DDs under its belt which is far too easy thanks to chesto+rest and actually good bulk, you've got a dangerous sweeper on your hand who won't die to priority nor any weakness to the common UU. and honestly the best late-game clean up in UU...only empoleon and somewhat blastoise can take a hit and stand in its way of sweeping..

    Edit: Thank you Ace Emerald, Yes it was a typo
  10. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Professional
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Visual Media Head

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,004
    I'm guessing this is a typo?
  11. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    539
    Omastar@Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Shell Smash
    -Hydro Pump
    -Hidden Power (Electric)
    -Ice Beam

    Shell Smash Omastar is an extremely powerful late-game sweeper, able to muscle through even bulky Pokemon in a single hit once they're taken hazard damage. It is vulnerable to priority and fast scarfers, but if these can be slowed or eliminated, it finds lots of opportunities to set up and wreak havoc. Addtionally, it has very few hard counters, so a team built around it should be able to clear the way for a sweep very effectively.
    A Timid nature is chosen to help outspeed potential revenge killers; this could be changed to Modest if we are cnfident in our ability to remove them. Additionally, HP Electric is chosen because gastrodon is no longer around, and Electric assists us in breaking through Empoleon.
  12. CrazyBacon

    CrazyBacon

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    185
    Heracross@Choice Scarf
    Ability:Guts
    Evs:4HP/252Atk/252Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    -Megahorn
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Pursuit/Night Slash

    Standard chocie scarf heracross. One of the best revenge killers in the game imo. 125Base attack and 2 120 base power moves as STABS are amazing. Megahorn skewers anything that doesnt resist it, close combat beats down anything that doesnt resist it. Stone edge is there for flying types such as togekiss and Zapdos and the last move is for ghosts. Pursuit can mean game over for mismagius or even alakazam but has low base power and means an immediate switch out, whereas night slash doesnt trap anything but is more powerful.

    Heracross appreciates hazard support and the removal of physical behemoths (like hippowdon) Furthermore clipping the wings of flying types isnt a bad idea since then heracross can use its overwhelming STABS too devastate the remaining team. This also works great as a late game clean up.
  13. Megapants

    Megapants

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    134
    I agree that we should build team 1 around the LO Alakazam set that Texas Cloverleaf posted. Not only does it have access to amazing speed, power, and respectable coverage, it's new ability Magic Guard makes it immune to residual and recoil damage making it much more durable and reusable than it was in Gen 4. Also, seeing the team building process of a team that is focused around dealing with such a powerful mon will be great for all the players in this metagame who are struggling with it.

    I would still like to suggest a set though, one that I've enjoyed using and is very powerful with good support. I'm talking of course about Curse Hippowdon.

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
    - Curse
    - Earthquake
    - Rest / Slack Off
    - Sleep Talk / Stealth Rock / Stone Edge

    We all know how bulky Hippowdown is, so why not bolster his Special Defense while boosting his already monstrous Defense and going for a sweep? This set is excellent in the early to mid-game as a sturdy physical wall and ball breaking in the late game as a powerful sweeper.

    I run this set on my Trick Room team, and that is where the set truly shines. The speed that TR provides Hippo allows him to focus more on sweeping the board quickly rather than slowly reaching God-mode at +6. This allows me to forgo the RestTalk set and provide my team with a solid SR user; both sets have their merits. However, should you use RestTalk or Stealth Rock, Hippo will have no means of hitting floaters/flyers, and it will be important to focus on taking out those mons early on.
  14. Vratix

    Vratix

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    766
    Chansey@Eviolite
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Att)
    -Softboiled/Wish
    -Seismic Toss
    -Toxic
    -Heal Bell / Protect

    best wall in the tier
    obviously Protect is only included if Wish is used over Softboiled
  15. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,024
    Vote for the set you most want to see on team 1 by posting in bold the name of the user who posted the set!

    I'm personally voting for kd24 because his choice is the strongest
  16. Avira

    Avira

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    243
    Voting for FastFlygon because Omastar is indeed very underrated with few hard counters, and deserves more attention in this tier.
  17. badabing

    badabing hevy hangs da hood,,

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    800
  18. Snunch

    Snunch
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 8th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,074
    Jabba says I can't vote for myself so I'm just gonna say: pokemon 1 should be one that lacks any viable hard counters in the tier. If pokemon 1 has a viable hard counter, that pokemon is guaranteed to be on team 2. This isn't CCAT, we will be building a team directly to counter this one.
  19. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,154
    voting for Snunch because Roserade is yandere.
  20. jamashawalker

    jamashawalker

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    606
  21. Vratix

    Vratix

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    766
  22. Scoopapa

    Scoopapa
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    972
    Snunch

    Truly the toughest of the mentioned sets to completely bone over with a specific counter. Many of the sets are fantastic in the metagame, but doing well on the ladder is different than trying to make a team that is resistant to counter-teaming.
  23. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    539
    Presumably I can't vote for myself, so my vote is for PK Gaming. I absolutely agree with Snunch that anything with a (viable) hard counter isn't going to work, so for that reason I would like one of Myself, PK Gaming or Snunch to win this. All three of us nominated Pokemon that are very difficult to deal with if played correctly. (Though obviously it would be cool if I won :P! 11 More Pokemon to go if not)
    May the best Pokemon win!
  24. Drifloon

    Drifloon

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    199
  25. Forsety

    Forsety

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,634
    I'd love to vote for kd24 just so this isn't such a one sided landslide victory plus Venomoth is a fantastic support for any team.

    But ultimately I'm gonna have to go with the tide and vote for Snunch because Roserade simply is going to fit into any team near perfectly and is more of a centerpiece than the little moth guy. It won't take much effort to pair that plant with something else that makes it near uncatchable.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)