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Counter that Uber Pokémon - MkII

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by gookie, Jan 27, 2012.

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  1. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    I would like to give you all a casual reminder to read the OP, and pay special attention to Furai's post with the tally of Pokemon used thus far.

    @Tomahawk9, I believe Rock Arceus has been used TWICE so far to counter Ho-Oh (this is also a criticism directed at NatGeo for bringing up the standard Ho-Oh set again). Can we please avoid bringing up identical sets for the sake of avoiding a circular activity? Thank you.
  2. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    lol I demand Ho-Oh, Rock Arceus and Fighting Arceus to be the next starter trio =).

    Anyway, for Fighting Arceus:

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
    Nature: Calm
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    - Psyshock

    Fighting Arceus can't hurt Latias much at all, even +1 Dark Pulse does less than 45%, meaning you can Calm Mind alongside it and defeat it with Psyshock. Latias can also switch into ScarfOgre reasonably well, as well as beat many other Calm Minders such as Manaphy, other CM Arceus's not named Dark, Ghost, Dragon or Ice. Access to Levitate allow her to avoid all the Spikes being thrown around the place.
  3. trickroom

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    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Careful
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roar

    Groudon isn't hurt much by Soul Dew less Latias. Careful nature Groudon still works today, surviving non Specs Kyogre's Water Spout or Specs Dialga's Draco Meteor easily. Paralyse Latias and 2HKO with Dragon Claw. Earthquake is obvious while Roar prevents Ho-Oh from setting up on Groudon. This Groudon can survive a Seed Flare from Shaymin-S and paralyse it in return.
  4. NTT

    NTT

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    [​IMG]
    Darkrai@Expert Belt
    Timid
    252SpAtt/216Spe/40HP
    Dark Void
    Dark Pulse
    Ice Beam
    Thunder

    Dark Void + 3 Attack Darkrai nicely counters specially defensive Groudon. The lack of offensive EV/Nature investment means Dakrai can comfortably switch in on Earthquake and three layers of Spikes and Stealth rock and survive, and proceed to throw out a Dark Void to incapacitate him, preventing further attacks. From here it's a case of throwing out Ice Beam, which provides guarantees a 2HKO factoring in Bad Dreams and Leftovers. Dark Pulse for STAB, Thunder rounds out the set for Rain abuse and mauling Kyogre. The EVs allow Darkrai to outspeed +Spe Arceus formes and max out attacking power, with the remainder being thrown into HP. Expert Belt is chosen for the item as it allows for the necessary KO without sacrificing "bulk" and for the rare occasion where you can bluff a choice set.
  5. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Dialga @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Careful
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Bulk Up
    - Outrage / Dragon Claw

    Since, that Darkrai doesnt carry Focus Blast or Nasty Plot (bad idea), it can't even touch Dialga. Ice Beam does a pitiful 18.8% - 22.3% while Dialga doesn't even care about Dark Void. Simply, use Sleep Talk get a couple of Bulk Ups and then proceed to destroy your opponent with Outrage. If, you've managed to eliminate Groudon, this Dialga can just check mate your opponent.
  6. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    Okay, not Heatran

    Excadrill @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpD / 192 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Shadow Claw
    - Swords Dance

    In lieu of using Rapid Spin this Excadrill goes on the fully offensive route, achieving almost perfect coverage with both Shadow Claw, Swords Dance, and its obligatory STAB. This set won't take a +1 Outrage THAT well, but it still is very far off from an OHKO (47.37% - 55.68%), whilst an Earthquake from LO Excadrill will deal 67% minimum to a +1 Dialga, meaning that Excadrill can safely Swords Dance and then OHKO Dialga the next turn. Even if Dialga gets two Bulk Ups in a row Excadrill will still get a guaranteed OHKO on it at after a Swords Dance, with no entry hazards.

    This set isn't that niche either, with sandstorm support it will run through many teams, if Kyogre attempts to switch in for a revenge kill it will take an enormous 73% minimum, and even max / max Bold Kyogre will take 46 - 54%, a guaranteed 2HKO with one layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock, and a high chance with only Stealth Rock.
    Even Giratina-O, whose ability and towering 150/100/100 defensive stats is OHKO'd with no HP or Defence investment (quite common) at +2 by Shadow Claw, without Stealth Rock.
    Giratina-A, the pinnacle of Physical walling, that has the potential to even avoid the OHKO from an Adamant CB Zekrom Outrage will take 60-71% from a +2 Earthquake, meaning that with a bit of residual damage or enough hazards, it too will fall.
    Lugia, also renowned for its defensive abilities, will take a minimum of 73% from a +2 Rock Slide, so with Stealth Rock it has a very high chance of being OHKO'd, and will faint if Sandstorm is up even if minimum damage is rolled.
  7. trickroom

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    [​IMG]
    Rayquaza @ Leftovers
    Ability: Air Lock
    EVs: 136 Atk / 156 Def / 216 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Substitute

    Unboosted Rock Slide rarely OHKOes even if Stealth Rock is up unless Rayquaza is weakened. Defense EVs seems lame but it guarantees Rayquaza's Sub to survive Lugia's Dragon Tail. Dragon Dance up and 2HKO Lugia after a bit of damage. Defense EVs let Rayquaza take an ExtremeSpeed from Arceus or Stone Edge from Groudon better. Survives Dragon Claw from Zekrom too and KO back with Outrage.

    Substitute eases prediction and prevents status from crippling you.
  8. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    IVs: 2 Spd
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic / Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Bronzong is definitely a big annoyance for any Dragon- Pokemon. This Bronzong only has 2.04% to be 2HKOed by trickroom's Rayquaza's +1 Outrage after Stealth Rock damage, whereas Hidden Power Ice OHKOs instantly with Stealth Rock support. More Defense EVs can be used to take physical hits better, although not adviced, as the Ubers environment consists much more special attacks. Stealth Rock and Toxic are probably the best support moves in Ubers (add Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Rapid Spin); everyone know what Stealth Rock does, and Toxic puts lots of pressure under sweepers, such as Ghost Arceus and Reshiram. Earthquake rounds off the set with great coverage, hitting Steel-types such as Heatran and Dialga which resist Hidden Power Ice. Gyro Ball is a viable option over Toxic, as it utilizes Bronzong's low base Speed to strike hard against the fast Pokemon of the speedy-paced Ubers tier.

    Kyogre support is reocommended, as Kyogre's rain cancels Bronzong's only weakness to Fire-; it decreases the damage from a super effective 2x damage to a regular damage (of 1x, obviously). Since Bronzong lacks a reliable recovery, Chansey is also a remarkable partner. She can pass enourmous HP through Wish, and defeat the stronger special attackers such as Palkia, Dialga, and Reshiran (only under rain, though). A spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef with a Relaxed nature can be used to tank physical hits better.
  9. barry4ever

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    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Power Whip
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect

    Aaah Ferrothorn, every so crude but ever so effective. Ferrothorn just doesnt care about Bronzong. It can come in on anything Bronzong has got and Earthquake does pitiful damage. It can Seed Ferrothorn and then set up Spikes to its hearts content. Apart from that, Ferrothorn checks Kyogre, Palkia, Manaphy,..........do we really need to get into all that again ?

    Fun fact: This is the first time Ferrothron has been posted as a check !
  10. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Are you fucking kidding me.

    From now on, anyone who doesn't follow the rules will be 'rewarded' with an infract. I am not joking guys, this is becoming too PC++.

    I did not write these rules for you to ignore them, and be sure that now I will enforce them.
  11. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    note that furai is referring to some deleted posts possessing some less than stellar material. he is in fact not schizophrenic.

    (deleted posts contained: SD virizion and rayquaza with one line of description - which was also posted two pokemon ago).
  12. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Glory to Arstotzka!
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Swords Dance
    - Seed Bomb
    - Earthquake

    Venusaur is pretty boss when used on a sun team, being able to actually sweep unprepared teams. While it doesn't have too great of an Attack stat, with Chlorophyll and Swords Dance, Venusaur can get to +2 / +2 quite easily, boasting an impressive 578 Attack stat not factoring in Life Orb. After that, it can sweep with Seed Bomb and Earthquake, and if something comes in to wall Venusaur, such as Ho-Oh or bulky Arceus, simply Sleep Powder, and break through them.
    This Venusaur beats that Ferrothorn easily, as it is immune to Leech Seed and 4x resists Power Whip, meaning it can set up three Swords Dances and then proceed to KO Ferrothorn with Earthquake, and then sweep any team without two things to stop it.
  13. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Wow, we've used Giratina-A five times and Giratina-O only once? Poor effort guys, poor effort.

    [​IMG]

    Giratina-O @ Griseus Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 212 HP / 72 Def / 164 SpA / 60 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    CM RestTalk Giratina-O doesn't give a crap about anything Venusaur uses. Sleep Powder is merely an inconvenience that is remedied by Sleep Talk, Seed Bomb is resisted, while Earthquake does nothing. In return, Giratina-O can set up in Venusaur's face and then potentially sweep late game when Steels and really powerful Dragons are gone. RestTalk is especially useful to patch up Giratina-O's lack of recovery from anything. Since Venusaur is most often used with Groudon, Giratina-O checks Groudon very well too, so you know that is at least two Pokemon in which it's countering.
  14. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Manaphy @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Heart Swap
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Rest

    Assuming Rain here, though it can probably work without, but Giratina-O has to be very lucky with Sleep Talk (less than Fire Blast miss chance), so this will counter Giratina-O very much of the time. Dragon Pulse is a 4HKO on Manaphy, while Manaphy is faster and 3HKOes back with Ice Beam. Any CM advantages Giratina-O has will be promptly Heart Swapped away.

    PS: Pair this up with a (sacrificial) Tailwind Tornadus and Heart Swap a +6 CMed Arceus. Have fun steamrolling your opponent :D. You'll probably want Timid in an actual match, though.

    Also I enjoy the fact that Deoxys-A will never reappear in this thread.
  15. NTT

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    [​IMG]
    Zekrom@Choice Band
    Adamant
    252HP/172Att/84Spe
    Bolt Strike
    Outrage
    Dragon Claw
    Volt Switch

    Zekrom safely counters Manaphy without Tail Glow. Plus it's only been used once before, so could do with moar love. Ice Beam from a 6SpAtt Calm Manaphy (Jikabu has posted Calm nature but with Modest's modifier, however given the defensive nature of the set I've going to assume he did in fact mean Calm) does 34.2%-40.6% unboosted and a maximum of 80.2% if it manages to snatch 2 CMs from something, which if my calculations are right means that Zekrom can switch into a +2 Ice Beam and two layers of Spikes and survive 100% of the time. From here Zekrom can outspeed Manaphy with 84 Spe EVs and tear it apart with Bolt Strike, potentially OHKOing it twice over (182.7%-215.3%). Speed EVs aside, standard CB Zekrom is standard- Bolt Strike and Outrage for primary dual STAB, Dragon Claw for more conservative use, and Volt Switch for scouting.
  16. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Glory to Arstotzka!
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Slack Off
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Toxic

    Hippowdon is a really solid physical wall, even in Ubers. It may seem outclassed by Groudon, but it has some very noticable advantages: namely, Slack Off and Sand Stream. Hippowdon also switches in on any attack from Zekrom quite easily, barring Outrage. Being immune to Bolt Strike and Volt Switch is quite useful, so he can't get worn down by hazard damage, and Dragon Claw is easily Slack Offed. Outrage does 2HKO you, so you probably need a Steel-type as well. However, Outrage doesn't OHKO so Hippowdon can tank an Outrage for about ~55% and Toxic or Earthquake Zekrom.
  17. SkullCandy

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    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EV's: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    -Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Power Whip
    -Protect

    Easily comes in whilst taking very little from Earthquake and being immune to Toxic. After using Leech Seed Hippowdon could Roar you out but then it's just losing health. If it doesn't Roar feel free to Spikes and Stealth Rock as Leftovers + Leech Seed recovery keep you healthy and Hippowdon lies there like a useless fat hippo (see what I did there?)

    I bumped the physical Defense up a bit so it can take stuff like Zekrom, Groudon and Garchomps hits better but mainting good Special Defense so Kyogre and Fire Blast-less Palkia don't have a field day on it.

    Ferrothorn is extremely useful. This one moreso fore setting up hazards, and stalling rather than hitting anything for a huge amount of damage, although Power Whip will still hurt Ground and Kyogre especially.
  18. highjumpwin

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    Magnezone @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Charge beam

    The all around steel counter of course! He can potentially charge beam up to +6 or just kill him right away with hp fire. He can sub for leech seed, and ferrothorn will be scared to spike agianst it.
  19. tehy

    tehy

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    Dugtrio@focus sash
    trait:Arena trap
    252 atk/ 252 hp/4 speed
    adamant
    -Earthquake
    -Toxic
    -Stone edge
    -stealth rock

    Comes in on anything magnezone can do, traps, and earthquakes. If he subs, just take the HP fire and attack twice. The HP is to make sure of that without running calcs. Other moves are for team-support, and maybe for revenging a slow ho-oh without a sub?
  20. NTT

    NTT

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    [​IMG]
    Shaymin-S@Lum Berry
    Timid
    44HP/244SpAtt/240Spe
    Seed Flare
    Air Slash
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power [Ice]

    Trying to stick to lesser used stuff, I looked through the list and I'm amazed we haven't seen more Shaymin-S in this thread, the annoying bitch can drag out a win in a lot of one-on-one scenarios. It craps on this Dugtrio, for example. Due to Arena trap holding onto Magnezone for dear life, Skymin can swagger in nonchalantly after it's been KO'd without fear of a well predicted Stone Edge. Once in, standard 4 attack Skymin can go to work. Air Slash is the first port of call if the sub is still intact, with a 60% chance of being a free hit. Once the sash is gone, a follow up attack from any move on the set is a guaranteed 2HKO. If the sash is already gone, you can just drop a Seed Flare on its head and be done with it. For the moveset you've got your dual STAB, Earth Power for Steels and HP Ice for Dragons. The 44HP EVs allow Skymin to survive one Stone Edge after SR damage, should Air Slash not be kind enough to hax them or Seed Flare misses, 240 Spe outspeeds +Spe Darkrai and the rest is dumped into SpAtt for hurting things. Lum Berry for item because it can block Toxic should you somehow give it the opportunity to hit you, as well as making Skymin a half decent switch in against stall teams or Darkrai.
  21. gookie

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    Yeah, Furai wasn't joking and highjumpwin and tehy have been awarded with two lovely infractions. I am not going to bother to state the rules and guidelines again; just read the OP and infer from the rest of the thread what is acceptable and what is not. Thank you.

    The game may continue with the countering of Shaymin-S~
  22. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Glory to Arstotzka!
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    [​IMG]
    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar / Dragon Tail
    - Outrage / Will-O-Wisp

    This thing doesn't care about any of Shaymin-S's attacks, thanks to its great special bulk. 150 HP combined with 120 Special Defense is nothing to scoff at, being nearly as bulky as Blissey (92% as bulky to be precise). Its typing also helps a lot, as Seed Flare is resisted and thus Shaymin's main attack thus does a poor 11 - 13%. Hidden Power Ice is Shaymin's most powerful attack, but doing 18 - 21% will never break through Giratina either. Even after a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare (which it only has four of thanks to Pressure) it won't 2HKO, meaning Giratina can easily alternate Rest with two Sleep Talks and not being KOed. Outrage on the other hand 2HKOes Shaymin, and thanks to Sleep Talk Giratina won't be locked in or confused. Roar will phaze Shaymin out and force it to take Stealth Rock damage. If you want, you can use Will-O-Wisp and Dragon Tail in the last two slots to be able to status, phaze, and attack, but without Roar it's harder to take on Substitute Shaymin-S.
  23. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Jeez Tomahawk, can you please be a bit more creative with your counters? I've seen Giratina being used like 7-8 times already in this thread and it's getting really old. Also, I think you mean an Impish nature, since using Careful and Outrage/Dragon Tail is counter-productive. EDIT: Oops my bad

    Anyway, to counter SpD Giratina:

    [​IMG]

    Bisharp @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Night Slash
    - Brick Break

    Bisharp is really cool. It's kind of like Lucario and Arceus rolled into one. Since Giratina's main options are Roar and Outrage, you can easily switch into Outrage, set up an SD and OHKO with Night Slash. Even if it's running WoW, Giratina is going to have a tough time winning, since Bisharp easily 2HKOs with Night Slash off the bat, while with either some good prediction and luck, you can just SD up and kill the thing anyway. Bisharp can easily set up on stuff like Scarfed Outrage or Spacial Rends and destroy anything slow or frail on opposing teams. It outspeeds and OHKOs defensive Dialga, Ferrothorn, Giratina(-O) on the defensive side, while stuff like ScarfOgre, Scarf Palkia, Mewtwo and friends easily fall to Sucker Punch. It also makes a good Shaymin-S without Earth Power or HP Fire check too, since Inner Focus prevents flinching.
  24. trickroom

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    [​IMG]
    Skarmory@leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish nature
    ~ Roost
    ~ Spikes
    ~ Whirlwind
    ~ Brave Bird

    Skarmory is a very underrated physical wall in Ubers. Max Defense is used to counter Bisharp easily, and because Bisharp is faster, Brick Break cannot harm Skarmory much even while Roosting. Brave Bird will eventually take out Bisharp in the long run while Skarmory can easily heal up or Whirlwind it out.

    Impish Skarmory is a full stop to any physical Arceus variant save Rock Arceus. Even Rock Arceus fails to OHKO this bird with a +2 Stone Edge. With 416 Def, Skarmory can also survive a Bolt Strike from Choice Scarf Zekrom and easily takes Dragon Arceus's +2 Outrage. Support Groudon's Fire Punch will now never 2HKO, allowing easy set up for Skarmory. Spikes is an incredibly useful move in today's metagame.

    Skarmory is also useful against some stall teams because Lugia, Blissey, Ferrothorn, certain Arceus formes and non Fire Punch Groudon cannot touch it.
  25. locoghoul

    locoghoul Banned deucer.

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    [​IMG]
    Xatu @ Leftovers
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    Nature: Impish (+Def; -SpAtk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef

    - Roost
    - Reflect
    - U-Turn
    - Night Shade/Toxic

    Xatu counters most of the spikers with its ability. Unlike Espeon, it can survive both Ferrothorn and Forretress Gyro Ball and just stall it out with a combination of Reflect and Roost. Night Shade allows Xatu to deal some damage but in some cases Toxic might be the better option if you expect a special attacker switch in. U-Turn helps a lot with momentum considering you will have your hazards in while your side is hazards free, maximizing the switch advantage. If you pair it with Gastrodon it can completely shut down the FerroOgre core.
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