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Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by NixHex, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. The Reptile

    The Reptile Wonderful Wiggling Wyrms!
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    Remember when I mentioned Starmie? Fuck Starmie, it's all about Gyarados.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge

    Gyarados is the perfect switch into Team 1's Metagross, since the hardest thing they can hit us with is Meteor Mash, a pretty inaccurate move that only 3HKO's after Intimidate. After 1 DD we outspeed everything they currently have (not sure if Jolly is needed to outspeed Meloetta) and have a high chance to OHKO their entire team (or just OHKOing after just a layer of spikes). Not only that, but it also discourages the opponent from using Rain since it will power up out Waterfalls to deadly levels. As much as I hate it, Intimidate is needed in order to switch into Metagross, otherwise we're 2HKO'd by Meteor Mash. Of course, Jolteon or a fast Scarfed electric-type user is a very obvious pokemon if we choose Gyarados, but Celebi should be able to take them, and we do have another pokemon to choose after Gyarados, so we should be fine. The only problem I can see is that we can only switch into Metagross, as Meloetta and Thundurus can OHKO us with Thunderbolt.

    EDIT: Fffuck. Forgot Clear Body. I still think it's a strong candidate though, since Heatran can take Meteor Mashes for days, and we can take every other move Metagross has. Moxie is definitely the best option then. Still torn between the two, since Intimidate could be used as a quick -1 to a physical pokemon Team 1 chooses. Also, reason I don't have bulky DD is because we need EQ to 2HKO at +1, and I don't like using EQ on Bulky DD (Although that's just me).
  2. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    What? Unless Air Balloon is already popped there's absolutely no way you lose to Metagross (to be honest, without Balloon, you will lose even with HP Fire, that 2HKOs exactly as Thunderbolt does). And calling it set-up fodder when it can retaliate for 60% damage minimum and almost OHKOs after SR without boosts, well, I don't particularly agree. Also, of course it's OHKO'd by Meloetta-P, but unless you're crazy you won't switch in, and it resists everything except Close Combat. If you predict a Relic Song just go to Celebi and T-Wave to cripple for the rest of the match...

    I kinda agree with the rest of your post, especially on Rotom. However, we can still take Zone and pick Rotom or another offensive Water type later (and the other way around, I guess...).

    Interesting, but I don't like it. I mean, actually they don't fear Sun and Clorophyll sweepers as much as WE do. If they pick a physical Venusaur with Growth | EQ | Seed Bomb | HP Fire / Ice / Sleep Powder, they can OHKO both Ninetales and Heatran, and do the same with Celebi after Growth, or just incapacitate it with Sleep Powder if they choose that move. Also they will destroy our hypotetical FWG core, and can handle our eventual Dragon without many problems by either sleeping it or using a boosted HP Ice. On the other hand, not many Clorophyll sweepers can handle Meloetta right now, and it would be quite difficult to get a free boost against a such offensive team.

    This is actually very interesting, since after a boost it outspeeds everything bar Meloetta-P (and that's a non-issue, unless you want to set-up on Meloetta-A that can Thunder(bolt) you into oblivion). Also it has good typing, resisting Bug, Water, Fighting, and being immune to Ground. However, this will make a spinner almost mandatory, and I'm a bit scared of double switches into Meloetta / Thundurus that can easily force out Gyarados and wear down via SR.
  3. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Meteor Mash: 167-197 (50.45 - 59.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Also, 'Gross has Clear Body.
  4. PapaBearAds

    PapaBearAds

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    I've gotta say I really don't think this is a smart pick. It can't risk switching into any of Team One's Pokémon, a Thunder(bolt) coming from both Meloetta formes will OHKO it, Thundurus-T is obviously going to OHKO, and Metagross 2HKO's with Meteor Mash, whilst Gyarados can do nothing spectacular in return.
  5. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
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    yeah, Gyara is kind of weak typing wise. Gyarados also leaves us very Terrakion weak, unless you run Intimidate, but it could easily be one of those SubSalac variants..
    @Ganj: Oh, I forgot that Magnezone had a balloon :/ And as your Thundurus-T being not able to set up on it, well as long as it comes in on anything other than an HP Ice and Rocks it can set up on you, because it's faster and can Nasty Plot to +2. Still, one of the better submissions.
  6. Skore

    Skore

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    While I don't think Gyarados is the answer (you know I think it's Ninetales), I think we do need to take a chance and not pick a "safe" option because by now anyone with basic knowledge of the meta knows how to break a FWG core and knows not to be Gastrodon/Heatran bait.
  7. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Fair enough. However, Ninetales is not only risky, it may be counter-productive. Weather inducers are quite different in this kind of game compared to normal team building. You run Ninetales in your Sun team since you want to abuse your Clorophyll sweepers, power up your Fire Blasts and such goodies. But what if someone assures you that every team you will battle will run a Drought pokemon, would you still run Ninetales? Ninetales is quite mediocre by itself, and by picking it we put Team 1 in the exact hypotetical situation I just described. They get permanent sunshine without crippling themselves with an average pokemon. This doesn't sound good for us at all, while it opens all kinds of choices for them: they can pick Toed (which, to be honest, is a far better pokemon than Ninetales) if they feel they want to counter Sun with Rain or just exploit our weather to beat ourselves as I said in my previous post, while we only achieved the result of lowering the base power of their Electric moves by 25. This seems to me a very bad tradeoff, we don't know what we need to check/counter and they have a good advantage without actually paying a price for it.

    If we really want to pick Ninetales, it should be our last pick, and we should do so only if the enemy team picked something that's crippled by Sun. But they did a good work avoiding all those situations, so I think that if we really want to consider weather, we're just better wait when we will pick our fifth and sixth pokemon.
  8. The Reptile

    The Reptile Wonderful Wiggling Wyrms!
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    I agree with this for a different reason.

    So far, we have been picking our pokemon in a more defensive fashion while they have been putting offensive pressure on us. If we keep going with the "safe" option, the other team will have total control over what we pick, since we will have to pick according to what they choose. While Gyarados probably isn't the best option (tbh, I only chose it because I forgot about Clear Body :P. Also, I think Ninetails is dumb, or at least this early it is), I don't feel good about having to choose a defensive mon to respond to Team 1 (I don't know why Ferro is being nominated as well, since Thundurus takes a massive shit all over Ferro with +2 Focus Blast that it WILL set-up since Ferro can't touch Thundurus I believe. I'd rather use Skarm tbh, that deals with Metagross much better and can at least Whirlwind with Sturdy if needed. Probably going post the set a bit later, although it's pretty much going to be standard skarm), as it gives them the momentum in team building. Not sure if what I'm trying to say is clear, I really hope it is. Also, just an FYI, we get 2 picks before they choose their next pokemon.
  9. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
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    I like this post. You can think of this like we're building a match, sort of, so what you give to one team affects the other team before the teams are even finished. As much as I love the effects of sun in OU, Ninetales is just a chore to maintain since it can't be bulky, offensive, and powerful all at the same time, has a SR weakness, can't switch in on other weather starters, and is in general kind of crappy. Putting it on team 2 automatically gives team 1 the ability to build a Politoed / Ttar / whatever anti- or pro-sun thing they want that can handle whatever T2's Ninetales would carry.

    Anyway, we got a few suggestions this time, some good and some okay, but it's up to you guys to vote on the best. Everyone may vote, just like the last two rounds. Simply post the name of the person who submitted the set in bold. For instance, if I wanted to vote for ganj4lF's Magnezone, my post would literally say ganj4lF. That's it. No complaining about submissions and no submitting more sets. You have until some time tomorrow!

    chaos 9's Tyranitar

    Zacch's Jellicent

    Temp V1's Jellicent

    Electrolyte's Rotom-W

    Ganj4lF's Magnezone

    TyranitarAbuser's Genesect

    G-Von's Gastrodon

    Skore's Ninetales

    The Reptile's Gyarados
  10. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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  11. Kiyo

    Kiyo

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  12. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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  13. PapaBearAds

    PapaBearAds

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  14. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Well, it seems I can...
  15. PapaBearAds

    PapaBearAds

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    Heheh, seems I read that wrong.
  16. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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  17. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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  18. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    3 Electrolyte
    1 G-Von
    2 Ganj4IF

    Vote tally so far.
  19. TerrickTerran

    TerrickTerran

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  20. zpattack12

    zpattack12

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  21. Skore

    Skore

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  22. The Reptile

    The Reptile Wonderful Wiggling Wyrms!
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  23. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
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    Electrolyte
  24. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

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    Although I think Gastrodon has better type advantage for the team, I'd have to go for Electrolyte's Rotom-W as it provides valuable offensive momentum.
  25. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
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