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Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by NixHex, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. HolyAvatar

    HolyAvatar

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    How and how this thread got hi-jacked is beyond me (I actually have and idea how -mean look to Ginganinja).
    Both ideas are quite distinct and deserve their own thread:
    -A per pokemon list of counters. Say 3 sets for the same pokemon and a pokemon (or several) to counter them all.
    -Double teambuilding with one countering the other.

    The approach is quite different. One is basically a 1v1 and the other is a team approach. The latter requires synergy, can rely on revenge killing and needs much more global thinking.

    I do like both ideas.

    Meloetta also gets my vote even if she has problems against ghost types (immune to relic song and close combat).
  2. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryday to keep me busy
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    It's not quite like that. ginga said it differently in his post than he explained it in the irc convo i c/p'd. Here are the rules from CrackinSkull's thread:

    That way, it's not strictly counter vs. counter but makes the process a little bit more complex and realistic. Keep nominating sets or showing your support and I'll make a decision by the end of the day. Sorry this has been so confusing. I will c/p those rules into the OP and they are the rules to be followed.
  3. Shovel

    Shovel

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    I will say, like everyone else, that this is good. But, I feel obliged to ask; why is slashing allowed? It just seems like it would be a bad idea, feel free to correct. All it seems to do, in my opinion, is make it harder for predictability, making it harder to counter, making the selected counter a dedicated counter to that specific pokemon, which is again a bad idea. Keep that in mind :L

    But, I will try to take part in helping find a counter to whatever set is chosen.
  4. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Well, I guess slashing is ok because even if you know a pokemon's set that doesn't mean you know it's moves.

    I also nominate Meloetta, it's just not many people I've seen have dared to use her. This might be very interesting.
  5. Shovel

    Shovel

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    As I mentioned, the problem I find with slashing is that people will most likely try to find dedicated counters, which will make this less fun/ make the pokemon less viable for the rest of the team.

    While I am aware that "[18:19:59] <%ginganinja> its not going to be good on the ladder," I feel that if you slash, and the selected counter is dedicated (moveset and Evs) to countering that pokemon, it won't function for the rest of the team. I believe that without slashes, a pokemon will be able to predict the moveset better, and will be able counter it while still functioning well for the rest of the team.

    Either all of that, or I'm making a deal out of nothing <3 Slashes could work, I guess, for better practice. As long as we ensure that there are no dedicated mons (Magnezone doesn't exactly count, seeing as it counters Steel types in general. If you understand).
  6. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    I suggest limiting slashes to 1 per poke.

    And I'll also vote for Meloetta. She is a 'mon with a good stat spread (two, in fact) and the movepool to back her up. Finding counters for her will ease her introduction into the metagame.
  7. HolyAvatar

    HolyAvatar

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    Can we go to the nest stage?
  8. TCR

    TCR I'll be the Romeo, you be the Juliet
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    id also like to beat the dead horse and say, meloetta gets my vote. with incredible bulk, average speed, and amazing SpA, she's a force to be reckones with in ou, yet no one seems to know how to counter. although, i happen to like using a bulky straight up attacking set:

    Meloetta @leftovers
    -serene grace-
    modest
    252 hp/ 4 def/ 252 SpA
    - Substitute
    - Psyshock
    - Hp Ice
    - Energy ball/ Thunder/ Thunderbolt

    works like a charm. being such an unknown and novel pokemon, i find it forces switches ALOT. simply switch in, and proceed to set up a sub. i took the idea from looking at terrakion's analysis and the subset really caught my eye. the evs present give it max overall bulk, and abuses meloetta's superb SpA to its full potential. lefties gives it some recovery, and is almost mandatory, as, sad to say, meloetta has no recovery of her own(except, maybe, drain punch tutor?). sub is the main point of the set. hp ice allows it to take out dragons, specifically hydreigon, who gives it a hard time unless it runs relic song+close combat. psyshock allows it to still hit chansey+blissey and not be walled, as a close combat coming off a base...77?... stat isn't really going to do much. psyshock comes off meloetta's higher base stat....much higher. The last spot is really filler. energy ball allows it to hit jellicent harder than psyshock, while thunder/bolt are the preferred choices to make a pseudo-boltbeam combo with hp ice. thunder in rain, and all that.​
  9. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Currently experiencing a serious case of Dance Kittens
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    I'll vote for thundurus-T...but ONLY if nobody posts jirachi as a counter, as that's so well-known already, but nobody else seems to be able to find a way to beat it.
  10. android

    android

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    You must be thinking Tornadus-T Gato. In my experience LO Thundurus-T 2HKOs SpeDef Jirachi with Thunder and OHKOs after a NP. I think Thundurus-T is a good choice.
  11. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryday to keep me busy
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    Okay, SORRY GUYS for the delay. Wasn't really able to do this yesterday, had a lot of other stuff to do. Any way, ginga's Meloetta wins the first slot on team 1!

    name: Relic Mixed
    [​IMG]
    move 1: Relic Song
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Psychic
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe

    The slash may be unusual but the choice can easily change if we end up putting a Politoed on this team. Thunder is stronger and is a "worst case scenario" for the counter, so that's why we're using it.

    Now, we move onto Team 2's first Pokemon. Post one set, including Pokemon name, sprite, nature, item, ability, moves, EVs, and IVs if relevant. You have 24 Hours from the time of this post. After that, submissions will stop and we will move onto voting. Don't suggest sets after the 24 hours have elapsed.

    Oh yeah, no slashes, Thunder(bolt) is the only exception we will make as described above.
  12. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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    Ok, I guess I'll start things off with something which I know counters most Meloetta hard.

    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252HP / 252SDef / 4Def
    -Giga Drain
    -Recover
    -Leech Seed
    -Heal Bell

    A Specially Defensive Celebi is the perfect thing to deal with this Meloetta. Celebi resists all of Meloetta's attacks bar Relic Song, and even that is a 3-4 Hit KO in Aria forme and remember, each time Meloetta uses it she changes form, and the Pirouette forme will do even less damage.

    The only potential issue is if Relic Song puts Celebi to sleep but, even still, Celebi is unlikely to be KO'd by Meloetta while asleep and, even if it is in danger, switching out will wake it up. If Meloetta tries to fish for a para that doesn't matter either, due to Natural Cure and Heal Bell.

    Here are the calcs:

    Relic Song (Aria Forme) vs vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Celebi (+SpDef) : 28.47% - 33.66% (3-4 hits to KO)
    Close Combat (Pirouette Forme) vs 252 HP/0 Def Celebi: 26.73% - 31.68% (4 hits to KO)
    Psychic (Aria Forme) vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Celebi (+SpDef) : 16.83% - 19.8% (6-8 hits to KO)
    Thunder (Aria Forme) vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Celebi (+SpDef) : 15.1% - 17.82% (7-9 hits to KO)

    All the above calcs include Stealth Rock Damage, but not Leftovers/Leech Seed Recovery, etc

    0 SpAtk Celebi Giga Drain vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Meloetta: 19.35% - 22.87% (5-6 hits to KO)

    Celebi may not be able to do much to Meloetta but, between stalling Life Orb, Leech Seed and Giga Drain, Meloetta is not wise to stay in on this Celebi.
  13. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Fuck, this will be hard, because I don't have much experience with that thing
    [​IMG]
    Sableye @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
    Careful nature
    ~Wil o Wisp
    ~Taunt
    ~Recover
    ~Night Shade

    Sableye is immune to every move bar Thunderbolt, and can Burn stall. A CM set might also work, though I'm not so sure (darn Honkalculator isn't working)
  14. Shovel

    Shovel

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    For a slash, I like that it's just thunder/bolt..

    Anyway, here's what I've come up with, as something of a bit of a counter.

    [​IMG]

    Dragonite @Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef/ 252 Spd
    • Dragon Dance
    • Outrage
    • Fire Punch
    • Extreme Speed

    Nothing is changed from the normal set, making this a standard pokemon more than a dedicated counter. With the Lum Berry, Meloetta's chance of sleep is gone for one turn, which still means that there is a 20% chance to gamble with. Outrage is 2hko, even without a Dragon Dance, and obviously an ohko with one. If Dragonite comes in on a Psychic, all it can due is hope that the smallest chance of living a second one happens. A Thunderbolt, if Multiscale is in tact, won't 2hko, and not even a Thunderbolt+Psychic will ko Dragonite. Close Combat is obviously going to lolfail, because Dragonite and all. Also with Multiscale, Relic Song isnt a 2hko, nor is Relic Song + Psychic most of the time.

    All Dragonite has to fear is coming in on a Psychic, which it has 5 other teammates to lure different attacks (possibly).

    Ill edit in calcs in a bit. Prolly soon.
    EDIT: Number one. I did all of my calcs with a +SpA nature (the Calculator gives everything +SpA unless changed :p), but that is incorrect. So, Dragonite will probably take hits better than I thought.

    By the way, @Electrolyte, according to the damage calculator I use, Thunderbolt does this. 252SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta (Neutral) Thunderbolt vs 252HP/136SpDef Leftovers Sableye (+SpDef): 47% - 55% (143 - 169 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 8% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
    Pretty much 50%, which means that Life Orb stalling with recover is almost necessary if you don't want to give up Sableye.

    And, if it is desperate in the rain, 252SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta (Neutral) Thunder vs 252HP/136SpDef Leftovers Sableye (+SpDef): 59% - 70% (180 - 213 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    The only real thing Sableye can do is be annoying, and cripple the physically offensive side :L
  15. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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    I'm going to add in another, and then leave the counters to everyone else.

    Latias is yet another pokemon which, without Hidden Power Ice, U-Turn or Shadow Claw, Meloetta can do very little to.

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252HP / 4SAtk / 252Spe
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Substitute

    Latios can take any of Meloetta's hits well. While it could run EVs in Def, to get Close Combat down below a 3-4 hit KO, this set allows Latias to outspeed Meloetta-A (but it is important to note NOT Meloetta-P).
    Meloetta's best shot is, again, Relic Song:

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Relic Song vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Latias: 34.89% - 41.21% (3-4 hits to KO)

    Latias can take any of these hits quite happily while Recover-stalling and setting up Calm Minds for its (potential) sweep.

    The only potential problem is the risk of being put to sleep on every Relic Song, or being Paralyzed on every Thunder/tbolt. Both of these statuses would severely hamper this particular Latias set.

    EDIT:
    I think Stealth Rocks being up is a standard condition for these sorts of things. And anyway, if team 2 has Dragonite, team 1 will definitely have something to get Rocks up to break Multiscale.

    EDIT2:
    Thunder is an easy 2HKO, especially after rocks. Although Meloetta won't enjoy the burn it gets for its trouble, it doesn't exactly shut it down either.

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Thunder vs 252 HP/136 SpDef Sableye (+SpDef) : 59.54% - 70.07% (2 hits to KO)

    Thunderbolt, however, you would just about be able to Recover-stall (max 55% damage) but you would run the risk of getting fully paralyzed.

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/136 SpDef Sableye (+SpDef) : 47.04% - 55.59% (2 hits to KO)

    Because of this, I'd call Sableye more of a check than a counter to Meloetta. (Which sucks, I like Sableye.) And even then, if she's in the rain you're going to have trouble.
  16. Shovel

    Shovel

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    To be honest, I figured Stealth Rocks are impossible to have up, seeing as Team 1 has only a Meloetta at this point. If Dragonite is chosen to counter, then Team 1 could counter with a Stealth Rock user. However, as of now, this is undefined.

    Edited woo: Latias looks pretty solid to me; using Meloetta as a way set-up and tank it's hits easily. The only thing Meloetta can do is Relic Song, which still does bad damage, and allows for more Calm Minds/Recover stalling of Life Orb.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta (Neutral) Relic Song vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Latias (Neutral): 34% - 41% (126 - 150 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
  17. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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    We can always counter their rocks by adding a spinner anyway, I guess. And the only issue with using Meloetta as set up fodder is Relic Song putting it to sleep, that's why I posted Celebi first. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with Latias too at this point.
  18. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    It seems to me that countering the Thunder version is significantly harder that countering the Thunderbolt version. For example, I was going to post a Scarf Jirachi set with Iron Head / Zen Headbutt / Trick / U-Turn that I used quite a bit, with good results, in BW1. It could switch into anything and either cripple with Trick or seriously damage with the appropriate move (Zen Headbutt destroys Pirouette forme, while Iron Head KOs Aria forme provided it flinches at least once, or you can U-Turn for 50% damage min). However, with Thunder Meloetta has a 60% chance to paralyze on the switch, which is NOT negligible (opposed to a measly 20% with Thunderbolt). This means every threat that want to outspeed Meloetta has a 60% chance to be outsped instead, thus removing almost every "offensive" counter. For example, the Latias set previously posted is crippled quite hard by paralysis, thus is not a very good counter in my opinion (running Refresh would fix that, but that's not the point...).

    Also, that Sableye set is not that much solid, since Thunder is a clean 2HKO and Thunderbolt always 2HKOs after Rocks. You can only Burn Meloetta, which will prevent it from using Close Combat, but you lost a pokemon in the process and the opponent retains a good special attacker. So I would call that a check at best, and not really great anyway.

    The best I could find to counter Meloetta (and that wasn't already posted) is the following set:

    [​IMG]
    Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 28 HP / 252 Def/ 228 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    - Encore
    - Safeguard
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat

    Wobbuffet is bulky enough to not being 2HKO'd by anything Meloetta can throw at it, and can cripple or outright kill it in return (barring odd Sleep hax). If Meloetta didn't change forme on the switch, Wobbuffet can just spam Mirror Coat and watch the opponent kill itself (if Meloetta starts to spam Close Combat, it will kill itself anyway with LO recoil, since it's doing a whopping 4% after Lefties recovery). If Meloetta changed form instead, you can Encore it and switch to a resist/immunity, or outright kill with the appropriate move, provided Wobb has enough HP and Meloetta is weakened enough.

    Wobbuffet is a quite diverse pokemon, but can still prove useful for Team 2. Team 1 has to be very careful to pick Choiced pokemon with Wobb around, thus picking it may end up in a strategic advantage by reducing choices for the other team.

    Calcs (open)

    Aria forme:
    Thunder: 190-224 (35.98 - 42.42%)
    Relic Song: 178-211 (33.71 - 39.96%)
    Psychic: 107-126 (20.26 - 23.86%)
    Close Combat: 48-57 (9.09 - 10.79%)

    Pirouette forme:
    Thunder: 136-161 (25.75 - 30.49%)
    Relic Song: 127-151 (24.05 - 28.59%)
    Psychic: 51-60 (9.65 - 11.36%)
    Close Combat: 108-128 (20.45 - 24.24%)


    EDIT: @ClubbingSealCub, just nitpicking, but Metagross only works if Meloetta doesn't have Thunder, since it will deal (50.54 - 59.61%) which is a 2HKO regardless of Rocks.
  19. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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    Looking over some of these "counters", they do look a little shaky. Sableye and Metagross in particular have a chance to be 2HKO'd with Stealth Rock up, meaning they can't switch in to all of Meloetta's moves as they are outsped on the following turn. I tried Specially Defensive Zapdos but it was 2HKO'd after Stealth Rock. The best counter I could come up with was this.

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    Evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Seismic Toss
    - Recover

    Deoxys can easily resist both Close Combat and Psychic from Meloetta, while only taking 33% max from a Thunder, and even less from a Thunderbolt. This means that Deoxys-D can switch in on a Thunder, take 33%, be outsped and take another 33% and live after Stealth Rock with enough health to Recover. Obviously in this scenario it is very unlikely that your opponent will hit two Thunders (outside of Rain?) and get maximum damage both times, doing even less to Deoxys-D. While Meloetta tries to take out Deoxys-D, it can easily set up hazards for other members of your team, while successfully Life Orb stalling out Meloetta, as nothing it has can 3HKO Deoxys-D from full, or 2HKO after Stealth Rock. The only way Meloetta can get through Deoxys is through a Thunder paralysis / Relic Song sleep and even then, Deoxys-D needs to be fully paralysed / sleeping a couple turns before Meloetta can KO it.

    Deoxys-D is a great candidate for Team 2, and for any team in general. A key resistance to Fighting, hazards support and incredible bulk make Deoxys-D a prime contender for a much needed hazard stacker on any team.

    Calcs (open)
    • 252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Thunder vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Deoxys-D (+SpDef) : 28.62% - 33.55%
    3-4 hits to KO
    • 252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Psychic vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Deoxys-D (+SpDef) : 16.12% - 19.08%
    6-7 hits to KO
    • 252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Relic Song vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Deoxys-D (+SpDef) : 26.97% - 31.91%
    4 hits to KO
    • 56 Atk Life Orb Meloetta Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Deoxys-D: 10.53% - 12.5%
    8-10 hits to KO
  20. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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    Show Hide
    ANOTHER EDIT: This was a stupid post, I need to learn to read. I'm going to attempt to put something useful in this post to cover up my stupidity.


    I am liking the look of all the Psychic types we have here (my favourite type!) but anyway...
    As has been said, Metagross is not going to be a good counter if Meloetta is in the rain. It really is a shame that so many counters are being ruined by the possibility of Thunder!
    I am definitely interested Wobbuffet and Deoxys-D. As said, Wobbuffet gives so much grief to Choice-users that Team 1 would have to select carefully from here on out, while Deoxys-D sets up those all-important hazards. However, Wobbuffet can be easily worn down seeing as it only has Lefties for recovery, and Deoxys-D's hazards are useless, if not detrimental, in the face of Espeon, for example.
    They're both certainly good starts for a team, though... At the moment, I'm leaning towards Wobbuffet - simply because it's practically guaranteed to get the KO on Meloetta and it doesn't seem to be around quite so much as Deoxys-D in the current metagame (I may go and check the usage stats, actually.)

    edit: @Shovel, Shhh... I never said that...
  21. Shovel

    Shovel

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    Hasn't it only been about five/twenty four hours?

    Edit: Needed to actually contribute. Like most teams, wobbuffetguy lasts against one pokemon, usually. So, I think it would be better to discuss it's usage later, after seeing more of the teams. Maybe a better trapper will end up being more useful, and we'll end up with Wobbuguy anyway :p
  22. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryday to keep me busy
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    Just for some clarification, Stealth Rock is NOT assumed to be up for the very reason Shovel stated. If we put a Stealth Rock user on the team, we will assume it is up if it totally makes the counter worthless. In the old threads, the battle was assumed to be "stable" if you will, which includes whatever weather was specified and Stealth Rock. Not so here, since we are building the team and in a way, building the battle. We'll have to see what happens though!
  23. Shovel

    Shovel

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    So, with the teams so far Stealth Rock isnt up, which will help Dragonite a bit more, though I do see that it isnt at all the best counter (mainly defensive mons are). This helps with any potential focus sash users, as well, which is always good. Though, I'm not sure if any are able to ohko this? Don't quote me on that.


    Edit: Slash the sash, ninja edits by NixHex.
  24. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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    Ok, so I know that I said I'd finish on Latias, but I'm fairly sure what I'm about to suggest isn't going to be suggested by anyone else. (And if it is, I'm sorry.) Buuuut...

    [​IMG]
    Gothitelle @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252HP / 4Def / 252SDef
    -Psychic
    -Torment
    -Recycle
    -Rest

    Yes, that's right, I'm throwing Gothitelle into the mix again, just like last thread. Except this time, she has Shadow Tag. This means that, seeing as Chandelure is yet to get its long-awaited DW ability, Gothitelle suddenly has access to a lot of viable and unique sets. This is just one. (Shadow Tag having been released today)
    Unlike Wobbuffet, Gothitelle has recovery (among other things) in the form of rest. No only that, the BW2 tutors give her access to Recycle - allowing her only use two turns resting (Rest and then Recycle the berry).
    Gothitelle also learns Torment. This can play havoc with Choiced Pokemon, as every other turn they must use Struggle. Not only that, but it prevents Pokemon from using its most powerful attack (Thunder, in this case, which has a high chance of 3HKO'ing Gothitelle) twice in a row. This ensures that Gothitelle will not only be useful for Meloetta.
    While Gothitelle's STAB Psychic isn't going to do much to Meloetta-A, she will be forced to attack and thus will slowly lose HP from Life Orb recoil, without being able to do a thing about it.
    It may be that Gothitelle gets the unlucky Sleep or Paralysis but neither of these matter, due to the Recycling RestoChesto nature of this set.
    Finally, seeing as Shadow Tag has just been released on Gothitelle, her usage will almost certainly rise (at least until Chandelure is released) and it would be good to see how she can best be countered. (If at all. Shadow Tag is tricky, after all.)

    NOTE: Pirouette forme's Close Combat deals similar damage to Thunder, but (obviously) is weak to Psychic.
    NOTE2: Only Male Gothitelle can get Shadow Tag currently.

    Have some calcs
    Show Hide
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Thunder vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Gothitelle (+SpDef) : 33.14% - 39.24% (3-4 hits to KO)
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Psychic vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Gothitelle (+SpDef) : 18.6% - 21.8% (7-8 hits to KO)
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Relic Song vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Gothitelle (+SpDef) : 30.81% - 36.63% (4 hits to KO)
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Meloetta Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Gothitelle (+SpDef) : 26.16% - 30.81% (4-5 hits to KO)
    56 Atk Life Orb Meloetta Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 33.14% - 38.95% (3-4 hits to KO)

    0 SpAtk Gothitelle Psychic vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Meloetta (-SpDef) : 12.32% - 14.66% (7-9 hits to KO)

    These are all in Aria forme, except CC.

    Seriously, I'm done posting counters to Meloetta now.
  25. AuraRayquaza

    AuraRayquaza

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    I'd like to suggest a BL pokemon that I feel counters Meloetta very well.
    [​IMG]
    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Light Screen
    - Psychic
    - Moonlight
    - Signal Beam

    This Cresselia can take close combats all day from even Meloetta-P and hit hard with psychic. With light screen up, thunder from Meloetta-A fails to 7HKO and cresseila can retaliate with a HP Bug. Moonlight is there to heal up if necessary. The only problem is if Cresselia gets put to sleep for over 4 turns, but I'm hoping that doesn't happen.

    Offensive calcs
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    172 SpAtk Cresselia (+SpAtk) Psychic vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Meloetta-P (-SpDef): 83.58% - 98.53%
    2 hits to KO (Not including LO recoil)
    172 SpAtk Cresselia (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Bug vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Meloetta (-SpDef): 28.74% - 34.02%
    3-4 hits to KO (Not including LO recoil)


    Defensive Calcs
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    252 SpAtk Meloetta Life Orb Relic Song vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Cresselia: 14.41% - 16.89%
    9-12 hits to KO (Including Leftovers)
    252 SpAtk Meloetta Life Orb Thunder vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Cresselia: 15.32% - 18.02%
    8-11 hits to KO (Including Leftovers)
    252 SpAtk Meloetta Life Orb Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Cresselia: 12.16% - 14.19%
    12-16 hits to KO (Including Leftovers)
    252 SpAtk Meloetta Life Orb Psychic vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Cresselia: 8.56% - 10.14%
    25-42 hits to KO (Including Leftovers)
    56 Atk Meloetta-P Life Orb Close Combat vs 252 HP/84 Def Cresselia: 19.59% - 22.97%
    6-8 hits to KO (Including Leftovers)

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