Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by NixHex, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. Sharpteeth

    Sharpteeth

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    Shame that Amoonguss didn't make it as Meloetta's counter. Anyway, my suggestion for Team 2's second member, and Celebi's teammate is

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Band

    156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
    Adamant nature

    ~Crunch
    ~Stone Edge
    ~Pursuit
    ~Superpower

    Going straight into weather, because:
    A) Tyranitar eats Lati@s, and Chans/Blissey for breakfast.
    B) Celebi will use Thunder Wave, spread paralysis around, and make everything slower than Tyranitar.
    C) The list of things that can take 2 Stone Edge or Superpower or Crunch is essentially made up of Fighting , Water or Ground types, which Celebi can switch into fairly well.

    From top to bottom, the list of stuff that can take hits from CB Tar are Hippowdon, Hitmontop, Donphan, Milotic, Wish-CM Jirachi, Tangrowth, Swampert, Suicune... all of which Celebi can easily switch into, and completely wreck.

    Defensively, the two cover each other pretty well. Tyranitar can take Fire, Flying and Ice attacks all day long, while Celebi can handle Fighting, Ground, Water and Grass attacks. And Bug attacks...well Scizor takes 79.9% damage *minimum* from CB Stone Edge, and is then outsped, so it's forced to use Bullet Punch to do anything. I know you're not supposed to assume SR, but, if it is on the field, Scizor will die to the second entry. Nothing else of note uses U-Turn. Well maybe Landorus-T.
  2. superbadd

    superbadd

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    They're both scizor/genesect bait... ^
  3. Sharpteeth

    Sharpteeth

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    CB Scizor (the one with almost max HP) takes over 80% from a Stone Edge and is outsped, so it can't even OHKO back with Superpower or U-Turn. It has to do 93.15% back with Bullet Punch, at most, then die to a second Stone Edge. Scarf Genesect just dies to Stone Edge, outright. Of course, both can switch in after a kill, but they're two very mediocre counters.
  4. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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    I was going to post Keldeo before I realised they share a weakness... FLYING *gasp*.

    Not the most used attack type, I know, but I really don't want to give either team an excuse to use Tornadus-T.

    You raise an excellent point, we definitely don't want to be considering our revenge killer at this point, especially when Team 1 can see everything... I will have a think on it and potentially post a different mon tomorrow. I really like this Terrakion set though and, if nothing more interesting is posted, this will probably be what I vote for. (Assuming I can.)

    While you're right, and Tyranitar does pair well with this Celebi set for those reasons, is it really sensible to be choosing a weather (if we use any weather at all) this early on in the process? I feel like if we just pick a weather it will make our team much easier to counter as we'll be limited to Pokemon that don't mind the sand.
  5. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Angel of mercy, how did you find me?
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    Yeah, anyone that dares use Tornadus will be frowned upon lol

    I think it's ok to post a choice pokemon this early; though it really depends what pokemon it is. If you're talking a highly versatile Scarfed Rotom-W or Landorus-T (just an example, I don't need people telling me that Landorus-T+Celebi have horrible synergy, which, isn't exactly true) that can bring a lot to the table, then I fully support the idea. But if it's a pokemon with an exact purpose, such as Scarfed Latios or Scarfed Terrakion, well I think it's kind of pointless to use cleaners / revengers on a team that might go anything, be it Stall / Defense / Offense.

    I'm also hesitant to bring weather in to play. The LAST thing we need is another scramble to find counters to Tornadus / Thundurus-T. I think we all know quite enough about weather now, it's time we use (gasp) non-weather.
  6. SuperChillarmy

    SuperChillarmy

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    Well, we need something to eliminate Dragons, especially one's that run Sub and to some extent Lum Berry like Latias, Hydreigon, and Dragonite. Honestly, the two best answers have been mentioned. However, I'm going to try and post another option.

    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trace
    252 HP/252 Sp Att/4 Sp Def
    Modest Nature

    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Thunder Wave/Tri Attack

    Has decent type synergy with Celebi, and does its job of countering Dragon types quite well. Recover for recovery... lol. Ice Beam to hit them Dragons. Thunderbolt for BoltBeam coverage, although Mamo may be an issue. last move is either additional Paralysis support or a STAb.
  7. DerpGadget

    DerpGadget

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    I suggest Specially Defensive Empoleon.
    [​IMG]
    Empoleon
    @ Leftovers/Shed Shell
    Nature: Calm
    Evs: 252 SpD 200 HP 56 SpAtk
    ~Scald
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Protect/Roar

    Resists or is neutral to all of Celebi's weaknesses, and resists Tornadus-T's dangerous Hurricane.
    Scald is here try to burn Physical attackers, while Ice Beam takes care of dragons.
    On the 4th slot, you can choose between Protect to stall the burn damage or Roar and deal some damage with hazards.
  8. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Okay, so we picked Celebi as the first member of Team 2. Nasty Plot Celebi can be a very good special sweeper, and can handle quite a bit of threats on its own. However, it would be nice to prevent Team 1 to abuse Celebi's weaknesses in order to put us in a bad spot. For example, if they go and pick Rain as their weather of choice, Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T both can ruin Celebi's fun, the former by absorbing T-Wave and retaliate with a powerful HP Ice, and the latter by switching in (possibly not into T-Wave) and Hurricane for the kill, or U-Turn, that deals huge damage anyway and allows to keep momentum. Furthermore, Celebi isn't going to like Sun either (and Team 1 still can do that, since Meloetta can work pretty well in either weather). Powerful attackers like Venusaur will easily destroy Celebi under the sun, provided they find an occasion to switch in, and Heatran is more dangerous than ever in that weather.

    So, to fix those problems, I propose Specially Defensive Hippowdon as a teammate for Celebi:

    [​IMG]

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Impish
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind

    Hippowdon provides us with a lot of utility. First of all, it can set up Stealth Rock, that is a huge help for Celebi to sweep in general, and in particular for weakening those nasty Flying-types like genies, Dragons, Zapdos or whatever. Second point, it summons permanent Sandstorm while switching in. This means we will be able to combat whatever weather Team 1 will choose; even if they won't do so, Sandstorm is still useful to weaken opposing pokemons and potentially make easier Celebi's sweep (Celebi doesn't mind too much Sandstorm damage, since it's holding Lefties and can heal itself via Giga Drain). Thirdly, it's a great mixed wall in general, and has decent type synergy with our first pick: Celebi resists both Water- and Grass-type weaknesses that Hippo has, while Hippo doesn't mind too much taking physical Dark- and Bug-type attacks aimed at Celebi, since even in its Specially Defensive incarnation, it still boasts 300 Def and 420 HP with the ability to heal itself. Last point, it can even provide phazing if badly needed, switching into dangerous threats (that may have forced out Celebi), for example +1 Dragonite or +1 Volcarona as they set-up, take an attack and Whirlwind them out (coincidentally, both of those hate SR), forcing them to take more hazards and Sandstorm damage and making harder a second attempt to sweep.

    Furthermore, this set is quite good in countering Meloetta by itself: Psychic from Meloetta-A only has a 14% chance to 2HKO (could be reduced to zero by using a +SpD nature, but I think a +Def nature is more useful in general), while Relic Song + Close Combat (the second being used in Pirouette forme, obviosly) cannot 2HKO barring hax or crits. Hippo can switch in and just start to Slack Off: Meloetta would be mad to stay in, being damaged by both LO and Sandstorm, while Hippo slowly regains HP. Of course, you should be careful of Psychic SpD drops and other kinds of hax like Relic Song sleep, but it's quite reliable considering it's NOT specifically designed to counter Meloetta.

    So, to sum up, Hippo provides outstanding utility overall, has good synergy with Celebi in multiple ways as described above, and still happens to counter pretty well the only member Team 1 has right now. All those things make Hippo an excellent candidate, in my opinion, as second member for Team 2.

    Edit: going to answer to Xelacalle even if its post wasn't for me, since my entry is a weather inducer as well...


    Well, Sand is quite flexible and does not force us into a particular strategy (speaking for Hippo now, this may apply less to CB Tyranitar). Hippo can work in a multitude of teams (Stall, Balanced, or even some Offensive team, as a defensive pivot) and Team 1 still doesn't know anything about the rest of our team. Furthermore, this forces Team 1 to consider a weather right now to answer ours (thus giving us more informations, that can prove vital to counter well their team), or choose to go weatherless and thus giving us the weather advantage. They can also delay their choice, but this will make harder for them to build a good team, while we already have our weather set and can pick our remaining pokes with that in mind.
  9. tehy

    tehy

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    Repping for spdef hippo here, but it seems to do celebi's job for it, since from what i can tell it lols at meloetta, unless it gets lucky with relic song. Still, i've run both on a team and together they work pretty well, it can take two LO tornadus-t hurricanes if SR isn't down, while at the same time ensuring that SS wears it down and makes hurricanes miss.


    Hippow is useful even on offensive teams as the universal panic button, phazing almost any setup sweeper after a boost. Only powerhouses that are SE against it manage to break it, and that's true of almost anything anyways.
  10. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

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    <img src="http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/212.png" alt="scizor" />

    Scizor@Life Orb
    248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SpD
    Nature: Adamant
    ~ Pursuit
    ~ Bullet Punch
    ~ Bug Bite
    ~ Roost

    This set will be able to remove Latios, Latias and will hit Hydregion for Super effective. Not sure if Bug Bite will KO Hydregion, but I prefer not to use U-turn because of its lower BP. There will be a need for Magnezone to be taken care of though.
  11. PapaBearAds

    PapaBearAds

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    I'm going to suggest the classic Jirachi set. It has beautiful synergy with the Celebi set and provides crucial utility. ParaFlinching becomes even easier due to T-Wave. Superb defensive typing, along with nice synergy with Celebi (Despite double Fire weakness), means it compliments the green pixie beautifully. It acts as a defensive pivot for Celebi, as well as the remaining members of the team, and is considered at least a check to most of the most threatening Pokémon in the current meta. Provides 200+ HP Wish support which are ludicrous on their own, but alongside U-Turn to keep momentum it becomes very difficult to break teams down. Jirachi also operates under each weather decently except Sun, a nifty thing to have in the current metagame. Despite a shared weakness with Celebi I think it should be at least considered on every team in BW2-OU.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    -Body Slam
    -Iron Head
    -Wish
    -U-Turn
  12. G-Von

    G-Von

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    [​IMG]
    Heracross@Choice Scarf
    Ability: Moxie
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack, -Sp. Attack)
    EV's: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    -Magehorn
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake

    This 'mon has done so much work for me in late game sweeping. Either sacrifice a pokemon or switch into a resisted move, and begin a rampage. Megahorm/CC are the 2 STAB moves to abuse and give pretty good coverage. Ghost , Poison, and Flying types resist both moves. In the third slot is Stone Edge to hit flying types super-effectively and but ghosts and poison pokemon are still left unchecked. In the final spot is where things get tricky. Earthquake is for poison types, Jirachi, and Metagross. Night Slash is for ghosts and Victini. I am sure you will know what to pick based on your team's needs. In this case, I will side with Earthquake.

    And yes, I am posting the exact same pokemon and set. I think it goes great with Celebi.
  13. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Sorry but I don't think they will work well together. At least, not in this kind of "picking game". They both share a weakness to Fire and Flying (and noone is particularly bulky): picking both is just asking Team 1 to pick something like Scarf Staraptor, Scarf Infernape, Scarf Victini or something like that as a revenge killer, outspeeding and effectively checking two threats with a single pick, thus clearly gaining an advantage over Team 2.
  14. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

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    Heracross is a great mon and I'd love to see it on either team, but I think this isn't the time to choose it. As DrunkDemon said earlier, choosing a revenge killer / late game sweeper now is probably not the best idea, because all Team 1 has to do is choose a reliable counter and then keep it alive for the majority of the game, whereas if we chose Heracross last (for example) the final Pokemon they choose almost has to counter Heracross and restricts Team 1's choice of final pokemon.

    Also, if we're going to use Heracross and Celebi it might be an idea to address the fire/flying weakness first.
  15. namehtmas

    namehtmas

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    I was going to suggest this .-. Anyway celebi already has hp fire so that would be useless. I think roar would be the best move for the fourth slot.
  16. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Trait: Iron Fist
    252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe / -SpD)
    - Close Combat
    - Mach Punch
    - Overheat
    - U-Turn

    Sun Wuk- I mean, Infernape makes (in my humble opinion) a good partner to Celebi. He resists Dark, Bug and Fire-type attacks aimed at the little onion head, on top of checking a lot of Celebi's threats, such as Scizor. Speaking of Scizor, Infernape's Overheat has enough firepower (get it?) to KO 3 Scizors in a row. Tyranitar and Heatran get destroyed by Close Combat or Mach Punch if weakened enough. Celebi lures these pokes quite often, so a double switch will put them in a check-mate position. While 'Nape won't be able to OHKO the Lati twins, he can smack either of them with a powerful U-turn, shaving 50% off their health while switching to a counter. Infernape also has the advantage of being neutral to Stealth Rocks, so Rapid Spin support isn't as necessary (but still very welcome!). A scarf would probably be a good idea too, but as others have said, I'd rather leave the choice-locked mons last.
  17. G-Von

    G-Von

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    Crap >_< all good points.
  18. CrackinSkulls

    CrackinSkulls

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    With pokemon like infernape you guys really shouldn't be talking about synergy because he simply won't take hits even resisted ones. The only time you should be talking about it is with 4x weaknesses or if they have perfect synergy. That said 'nape isn't a bad choice because he puts a lot of pressure on the opponent, preventing them from selecting good offensive counters and placing them on the back foot in the game. He also pretty much rules out any chance of them using sun.
  19. NixHex

    NixHex Right place at the wrong time.
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    Okay, NOW we're getting the idea. Since we have like a million sets, we're just gonna head straight to voting. Remember, we are picking Celebi's teammate (I shouldn't have to explain this). Same rules as before. Only make one vote, don't vote if your set is listed. Post only the person's name in bold.

    For instance, if I wanted to vote for DerpGadget's Empoleon, my post would be:

    DerpGadget

    That's it, literally. Don't say anything else, don't complain about a set not being suggested (you had your chance). Voting will be open for a day-ish. Go!

    Skore's "Heatrab"

    Xelacalle's Terrakion

    TheReptile's Heatran

    DrunkDemon's Terrakion

    Sharpteeth's Tyranitar

    DerpGadget's Empoleon (Protect)

    ganj4lF's Hippowdon

    PapaBearAd's Jirachi

    G-Von's Heracross

    ClubbingSeal's Infernape
  20. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Just nitpicking, the link to my set redirects to DerpGadget's Empoleon...

    This is the correct link, hope it's useful: ganj4lF's Hippowdon
  21. Ace of Spades

    Ace of Spades

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  22. Kiyo

    Kiyo

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  23. doublenikesocks

    doublenikesocks

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  24. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    DrunkDemon
  25. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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