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Counter This Pokemon [OLD VERSION]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by NixHex, Jul 7, 2012.

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  1. NixHex

    NixHex what is béisbol
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    Please pay attention to the title. There is going to be ONE Pokemon mentioned here, not an endless string of more and more obscure (read: non-existent) sets that arise from Counter That Pokemon threads. Admit it, you will never run an Eviolite Gligar just in-case your opponent carries a double-dance Terrakion carrying a Chople Berry.

    Our job as a community is to list one or two checks and/or counters to the featured Pokemon. Here are the ground rules:
    1. You must list the entire set of each Pokemon with nature, ability, item, and moves. Please, only one slash per move and only 2 slashes per Pokemon, maximum. Please include a sprite, aesthetics do matter.
    2. Explain what your set does and how it counters the featured Pokemon. You may even go as far to say how your Pokemon handles the switch-in if you successfully force a switch.
    3. You are encouraged to call out other users if their sets stink or praise them if they're good. Feel free to reference another user if you have a similar yet superior option.
    4. Don't be ridiculous. Before you write out your set, think for a second: Would I ever run this set on my team other than to counter this specific Pokemon? Is this Pokemon so common and threatening that I must carry a specific, tailor-made counter to it? If yes to the first and no to the second, think of something else.
    5. Have fun and play nicely. Any insulting comments / personal assaults will be met with a 2 point infraction. It's one thing to critique or refute someone's set but calling the user a dumbass is something completely different. Watch your attitude.

    You must know the following definitions if you want to participate in this thread without embarrassing yourself!
    -To be considered a counter, a Pokemon must be able to switch into any of the opponent's moves under normal battle conditions*, including taking damage from Stealth Rock, and reliably KO the opponent before the counter is KOed itself. (props to Woodchuck)
    -To be considered a check, a Pokemon must be able to switch into at least one but not all of the opponent's moves under normal battle conditions, including taking damage from Stealth Rock, and reliably KO the opponent before the counter is KOed itself

    *Normal Battle Conditions consist of the following:

    • Stealth Rock is up on the counter's (your) side of the field.
    • Stealth Rock is not up on the featured Pokemon's (opponent's) side of the field.
    • The weather is handled as follows:
      • If no weather is listed, the weather is assumed to be clear skies unless the counter has the ability Sand Stream, Snow Warning, Drizzle, or Drought.
      • If the Pokemon to be countered can change the weather when a counter with a weather-changing ability comes in, the weather is situational and should be analyzed as such. For example, if the featured Pokemon is Drought Ninetales with Sunny Day and you list Politoed as your counter, you should evaluate the situation with two possiblities, rain or sun.

    Resources (these are pretty important if you want to back up your claims!):
    Honko's 1v1 Damage Calculator
    Honko's One v All Mass Damage Calculator

    I or other OU mods who are interested will be updating this thread semi-periodically (right now it's daily, but is subject to change at any time based on our schedules) with a new Pokemon. The title of the thread will reflect the new Pokemon and on which page it is featured. Now let's start!

    New Rule: I will be asking certain trusted members to post sets when I don't have time to do so myself. Don't PM me suggestions. OU / Smogon Metagame moderators, feel free to update this yourself if it's time for the current Pokemon to expire, I trust you guys enough.
    Newer Rule: 3 sentences per set, minimum. Thanks for understanding!

    Index of Featured Pokemon
    Terrakion
    Cloyster
    Salamence
    Latios
    Jirachi
    Toxicroak
    Keldeo-R
    Heatran
    Landorus-I
    Starmie
    Thundurus-T
    Tornadus-T
    Breloom

    Breloom @ Life Orb
    [​IMG]
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed
    - Stone Edge

    I'll start this off with one of the most difficult Pokemon to counter in today's metagame. It's not the most unpredictable Pokemon in the world in regards to its sets, but switching into it is a risky endeavor at best. You risk taking an immediate sleep from Spore or getting pelted by the hilariously strong Technician-boosted Bullet Seed, assuming it hits more than twice. Can anything take Breloom's assaults and live to tell the tale?
  2. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
    Nature: Bold
    ~ Giga Drain / Grass Knot
    ~ Hidden Power Fire / Psychic
    ~ Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
    ~ Recover

    straight from the analysis so its general utility can't be questioned too much

    - outruns Breloom and deals up to 68% with Hidden Power Fire. Psychic can be used if you're in the rain (and it's a clean OHKO)
    - Bullet Seed [5 hits] = 30.20% - 35.64%
    - Stone Edge = 21.53% - 25.50%
    - Natural Cure helps with Spore, you could run a Lum Berry for a bit of added insurance but really you could sleep for as long as you want and Breloom won't be doing jackshit.
  3. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 224 HP / 32 Spd / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Wish
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam

    Breloom's Mach Punch does 41% max. Zen Headbutt and the Special Defense makes this a solid answer to Keldeo in a pinch. This mon is also great vs Tornadus-T. Lot of utility and provides Wishes. You can use Stealth Rock as well. You can stack into Defense if you need to take Mach Punches better.
  4. wobbahax

    wobbahax

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    1) Read two slashes per poke
    2) Breloom is immune to leech seed
    3) after 4 hits of stone edge you"ll die (sleep 2to 5 turns)
    4)switching out allows breloom to cripple something else
    so yes, i'd go for the lum berry
  5. wobbahax

    wobbahax

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    Gets sacked by spore.
    What would you do if it switches into magnezone?
  6. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    1) I copied it from the analysis, deal with it. but yeah, fair point.
    2) see above
    3) sleep lasts 1 to 3 turns and Stone Edge probably won't hit 4 times in a row, not to mention Leftovers recovery makes it more like a 6HKO.
    4) yeah I thought that but I'm trying not to make it an overly-specialised counter.
  7. Ricky Horror

    Ricky Horror

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    [​IMG]

    Dragonite@Lum Berry
    Ability: Multiscale
    Evs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
    Nature: Jolly
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Fire Punch
    -Extremespeed/Earthquake

    Comes in on Spore and Lum Berry soaks it up.
    Dragonite can proceed to FP, DD on the switch or revenge weakend Looms.
    Outspeeds with the given nature and Dragonite with no words is one of the best Pokemon of this generation hands down.
  8. wobbahax

    wobbahax

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    Nice, however fire punch won't always OHKO, and breloom will spore again. ALso he can catch you with a low sweep on the switch instead.
  9. Skore

    Skore

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    [​IMG]
    Espeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    -Psyshock
    -Shadow Ball
    -Hidden Power Ice
    -Morning Sun

    I run this set on my current Sun team on PSDown and it's great for catching players on the hop with Magic Bounced Spores. You can then Psyshock for the KO or predict your opponents next move and go for the HP Ice to 2HKO on Breloom or knock a chunk off that Dragon-mon that came to save Brelooms bacon then outspeed them on the next turn (barring Scarfs and you speed-tie with Timid Latios).

    The set is walled by steels no-end but this is why I run it on my Sun team.
  10. wobbahax

    wobbahax

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    Reffering to the Techniloom topic, Xatu generally makes a better counter than espeon because espeon takes a load from bullet seed
  11. Ricky Horror

    Ricky Horror

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    Reason ES is a move, aslo countering Breloom on average you just require a sleep fodder. Saving Lum Berry for a free DD. Aslo you can just Outrage. ^^
  12. Skore

    Skore

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    Xatu has a much lesser offensive presence for my teams purpose and I've used this mon successfully against tons of Breloom users that choose to Spore first ask questions later.
  13. Bribery

    Bribery

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    [​IMG]
    Tornadus-T @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    ~ Hurricane
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ U-turn
    ~ Sleep Talk

    Basically come in on Spore. Whatever move Sleep Talk selects will be beneficial. Hurricane and Focus Blast miss OHKO it. If U-turn is selected, you can switch into another Breloom check without having to worry about Spore. The only problem is it cannot switch in on Stone Edge, or if you get unlucky and get hit by a 4-5 hit Bullet Seed.
  14. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    re: Dragonite - I don't think you can classify yourself as a counter if you lose when Stealth Rock (generally accepted as a 'standard battle condition') is on the field.

    re: Espeon

    if the opponent sees an Espeon in Team Preview, he won't use Spore blindly. he'll more likely fish on the switch with Bullet Seed or Stone Edge and...

    Bullet Seed [2 hits] vs 4/0 Espeon = 97.43% - 115.07%
    Stone Edge vs 4/0 Espeon = 86.76% - 102.21%
    Bullet Seed [4 hits] vs 252/252+ Espeon = 102.69% - 121.26%

    re: Xatu

    Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Xatu = 84.43% - 99.40%

    re: Tornadus

    loses unconditionally if it switches into any move except from Spore (any attack + Mach Punch will KO), and even then you need to play the Sleep Talk/miss hax lottery

    re: Mamoswine below

    loses one on one, never mind countering.

    LO Ice Shard vs 4/0 Breloom = 77.86% - 92.37%
    LO Mach Punch vs 4/0 Mamoswine = 93.37% - 109.94%
  15. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

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    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Icicle Crash

    While it can't take Breloom's attacks very well, Mamoswine makes a good revenge killer against it, as Ice Shard will OHKO after a tiny bit of previous damage. A Jolly nature allows it to outspeed Jolly Breloom, preventing i from getting hit by Mach Punch. What's great about Mamoswine is that it doesn't have to be there just to check Breloom, as it's a very anti-meta poke considering it's ability to take on many Dragons and the Therians.
  16. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    THERE'S A FOONGUS AMOONGUSS!
    [​IMG]
    Amoonguss @ Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
    Nature: Calm (+SDef, -Def)
    - Giga Drain
    - Clear Smog
    - Spore
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    With his Grass/Poison typing, Amoonguss resists Breloom's STAB Bullet Seed (4x) and Mach Punch, and can use Clear Smog to get a super effective hit as well as stopping Breloom's Swords Dance boosts, or you could put Breloom to Sleep easily with your own Spore. The only thing Amoonguss fears from Breloom is Spore, but really, does every single Pokemon on here have to be immune to Spore or have a Lum Berry? (which at that point you'd be overspecializing.) Not an over-designed Pokemon just to deal with Breloom as it can also deal with other top threats in the metagame like Keldeo. Regenerator is a bonus in case Breloom gets a Critical Hit or something.
  17. wobbahax

    wobbahax

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    [​IMG]
    Gliscor@Toxic Orb
    Trait:Poison Heal
    Nature:Impish
    Moveset
    ~ Swords Dance
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Fang / Facade
    ~ Taunt / Protect

    EVs
    252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe

    Shrugs off fighting moves and easily heals off damage with poison heal. Roost can be used to further stall
  18. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
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    I don't see why you'd run a specific set just for Breloom- as Nix said in the original post, would you regularly carry sleep talk just so that you can counter the few sleep inducers of the tier? Tornadus is a great counter only if you can come in without getting spore'd.
  19. Acritter

    Acritter

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    Espeon@Light Clay
    Magic Bounce/Timid
    252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -HP Fighting
    -Psychic

    Dual Screens Espeon, nothing to see here. This is not a counter, but rather a check. What it allows you to do is prevent your opponent from blindly using Spore, and enters prediction into the equation. Breloom suddenly ceases to be a viable revenge killer, loses the power of Spore, and is put into rather an awkward position overall. If they mispredict, they give you free reign to set up on them, which can often be game-ending. The worst-case scenario for you is that you lose a Pokemon (which is what Breloom would have done to a naked team) and get a free switch-in. The worst-case scenario for your opponent is that you eliminate one of his Pokemon and get a free turn of setup. Bonus: this functions almost as well against Poison Heal Breloom.
  20. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

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    [​IMG]

    Heracross@Choice Scarf
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 def
    Adamant
    Guts

    Megahorn
    Close Combat
    Return/Facade/Stone Edge
    Sleep Talk

    Resists both of brelooms stabs, gets a guts boosted sleep talk attack if breloom spores. Only problem is if you decide to go with stone edge and sleep talk decides to select it.
  21. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

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    This doesn't work so well. It can't come in on Spore before Toxic Orb is activated, since it then loses recovery and is disabled. Even with a Swords Dance boost (which will be next to impossible to set up), you still can't OHKO with Ice Fang 100% of the time, even after one round of LO damage. Meanwhile, Gliscor gets demolished by Bullet Seed if Breloom gets more than 2 hits. Also, Roost is a bad idea since then Bullet Seed hits for SE damage. Hardly a hard counter.
  22. Bribery

    Bribery

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    It's not that specific since Hurricane/Focus Blast/U-turn are really the only moves it needs. The last slot is usually filler so Sleep Talk allows it to support the team by acting as a sleep sponge. It's not just useful against Breloom, but also Amoonguss and Venusaur - two Pokemon that could easily switch into Politoed and fire off a sleep move with little trouble.
  23. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I was going to say this but then I did the facade calc:

    Facade: 232-273 (88.88 - 104.59%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Not that impressive, bit considering life orb damage, they both go down, not exactly the best counter, but if you need to take down Breloom, it can easily work.

    On a side note I support the Amoonguss nomination, sure it can't take 2 5 hit bullet seeds to well after rocks and sandstorm, but thats a bit of a stretch. I like sludge bomb better though over HP ice to just kill breloom though :P.

    Edit: You know what 2sly4u, your absolutely right, I accidentally left in that +2 from some breloom calcs I did, sorry.
  24. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

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    That's assuming Gliscor gets a +2 boost. Without a Swords Dance, the damage is actually 44.3% - 52.3%, and there's no way Gliscor can get a SD unless it switches in on Mach Punch or Breloom gets really unlucky with Bullet Seed.
  25. wobbahax

    wobbahax

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    Thanks for the calcs- adding to this, the breloom shown doesn't have swords dance. Also, if you invest a little into speed, you can kill it first. Also, brelooms aren't common leads so glister probably could activate toxic orb early on.
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