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Counter this threat - Threat 2 : Kingdra

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Zaon, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Kkop

    Kkop

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    At the risk of sounding unoriginal (since it's a set featured in it's UU analysis) Slowking is a strong switchin against Kingdra, especially Specially-based variants. Keep in mind this is considered a utility counter!

    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 12 Atk / 72 Def / 176 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    -Scald
    -Dragon Tail
    -Slack Off
    -Thunder Wave
  2. Zaon

    Zaon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    60
    Thanks for replies.

    Silenced : Escavalier is a great check or even a counter to DD Kingdra but unfortunately not the Spec and the Rain Dancer. I will add it as a check and mention that it does really well against the DD. Thanks.

    Kkop : Thanks. I will add it but as a check since it takes a lot from a +1 Outrage and mention that it is a great switch to the Rain Dancer and the Specs.
  3. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

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    528
    Slowking is arguably the best switch-in though, since Empoleon doesn't exactly enjoy taking +1 Outrages either—it takes around 42% w/o LO, so it's much harder to keep alive throughout the match—, and is much more easily weakened without reliable recovery. I've never tried that particular spread because it sucks on the physical side against Mienshao—which it's one of the best answers to, along with Slowbro of course—, but I ran a similar spread of 248 HP / 12 Atk / 120 Def / 128 SpD Sassy which takes 75% from +1 Outrage and 63% from Specs DM. Slowking can also paralyze LO variants so that another Pokemon can revenge Kingdra, and always breaks its 0/0 Subs with Dragon Tail. The spread isn't optimized though, I aimed for King to survive two Flare Blitzes from Scarf Darm after SR iirc.
  4. lousy918

    lousy918

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    Jun 15, 2012
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    Uh ditto can switch into a random water move and revenge kill
    and milotic can sort of wall it
  5. Zaon

    Zaon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
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    60
    Ernesto : Thanks, I'll use this spread.

    lousy918 : Ditto isn't a reliable check, I won't add it. Milotic isn't good because it has competition with other bulky water so I think I won't add it.
  6. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    662
    Kingdra is extremely difficult to counter due to its unpredictability, exceptional weather abuse, and great STAB combination. Pokemon that can phaze Kingdra after taking one hit are useful, so here I present a Scrafty set that has given me many rage quit victories on the UU ladder

    Scrafty (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
    Nature: Careful
    -Drain Punch
    -Bulk Up
    -Dragon Tail
    -Rest

    Bulk Up boosts Scrafty's decent attack and above-average defense, and Drain Punch is a nice STAB that recovers health. Dragon Tail can phaze out DD Kingdra, while EVs let it absorb a Draco Meteor and Rest up. Shed Skin + Rest is a beautiful combo, letting Scrafty serve as a self-cleric, erasing burns and poisons from Pokemon such as Bronzong. Scrafty can also phaze Kingdra the turn it uses Rain Dance so it cannot attempt a sweep right away. Note I STRONGLY recommend using entry hazards on another Pokemon such as Froslass or Cobalion.
  7. wiithepeople

    wiithepeople

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    [​IMG]

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SpD
    Nature: Calm
    - Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Stun Spore
    - Clear Smog / Substitute

    Amoonguss is surprisingly bulky, as we all know, and carries two different statuses that will stop cold not only Kingdra, but all Swift Swimmers commonly found in UU. Your opponent's rain also gives Amoonguss great protection against Fire-type moves.

    Spore is always found on Amoonguss, and can cause a lot of switches if you are unaffected by Sleep Cause, while Stun Spore can be a huge surprise against Kingdra, effectively cutting off Swift Swim. Remember that Kingdra will still outspeed Amoonguss if it has a Dragon Dance under its belt or if it is raining. Amoonguss' Grass/Poison typing, especially under rain, is very beneficial against Kingdra lacking HP Fire (very rare on Kingdra), and helps to take away HP from Kingdra with its STAB Giga Drain, a neutral hit. It is known that on occasion Kingdra will use Dragon Dance. Because of this, Clear Smog can be used to force a reset on the boosts Kingdra has obtained. However, Substitute is of mention in the final slot to ease prediction. 108 HP Substitutes are no joke against Kingdra, able to withstand a Hydro Pump in rain. It also allows Amoonguss to potentially dodge a fatal hit from Outrage.
  8. BrokenMusicBox

    BrokenMusicBox

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    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    I suggest using Bronzong. Dragon Dance Kingdra guarantees 4hko Bronzong only after Stealth Rock. You can toxic it and use Gyro Ball, however it 2hkos if it is special. Spike Roserade can take Special Kingdra, however. It can take a Draco Meteor and still live with at least 30% of its health and then can Giga Drain to recover.

    Bronzong
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate/Heatproof
    Evs: 252 HP/252 Spd/4 Def
    Nature: Relaxed
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    Roserade
    Item: Black Sludge
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Evs: 252 HP/240 SpD/16 Spe
    Nature: Calm
    - Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest/Synthesis
  9. mite b cool

    mite b cool

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2009
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    243
    Milotic is probably the most solid check, it can recover on outrages and weakened DMs while Kingdra racks up LO damage or whittle it down with Ice Beam

    Bulky Shaymin is another good check. 252 HP/ Def Bold Shaymin takes around 46.04% to 54.21% from neutral nature LO DM, and under 30% from outrage. It can use Synthesis to recover (although if rain is up it's fucked), whittle it down with giga drain, seed flare or leech seed. Alternatively, Bulky Virizion is a great check to special variants

    Roar Suicune takes on DD Kingra, so can Slowbro and can cripple it with T wave (or Toxic)
  10. Zaon

    Zaon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
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    Explorer : Thanks. Scrafty isn't a good check to Kingdra because it takes a lot from +1 Outrage, Choice Specs and Rain Dancer. I won't add it.

    Whitepeople : Thanks. Amoonguss is a great answer to Kingdra, I'll add it.

    BrokenMusicBox : Bronzong isn't a reliable check since it takes a lot from the Rain Dancer and can't do something to the Sub and the Chesto Rest, I won't add it. But Roserade is a good check to the Rain Dancer so I might add it. Thanks

    mite b cool : Milotic is a check to Kingdra but not the best. I think Slowking is the best check because of Regenerator and its superior physical bulk but I'll add it. Shaymin is one of Kingdra's best checks, I'll add it. Suicune an Slowbro are also good checks, I'll add them. Thanks
  11. SBP33

    SBP33

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Since chandelure tends to lure in kingdras more often than not, I've found a way to truly decimate kingdra. With modest nature and full SpAtk investment, HP dragon actually OHKO's all variants after stealth rock. Circumstantial? Yes. Crazy? Yes. Rewarding? I think so!
  12. wiithepeople

    wiithepeople

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    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
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    :evan: wii the people...

    Nonetheless, thanks for adding my Amoonguss as a Kingdra threat! I appreciate it.
  13. Cassen

    Cassen

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    Jan 16, 2013
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    16
    LOL that made my day.

    On a similar note, you spelled my name as "Cassel" in the "checks and counters" list for Raikou, rather than Cassen =p
  14. wiithepeople

    wiithepeople

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    oh god i did? :evan:
  15. Your Hopes and Dreams

    Your Hopes and Dreams

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    Mar 21, 2013
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    Kingdra is countered by CurseLax with good prediction.

    With DD sets, whether Kingdra Outrages from the get-go or boosts, Snorlax can either 2HKO at +1, or boost alongside Kingdra until it attacks, take any attack as Snorlax boosts again, and KO it.

    Rain Sweepers are 3HKO'd, while Snorlax can hit it while it sets up the rain and take 2 rain-boosted Hydro Pumps (if they aren't both max damage).

    Specs set don't even hit for over half with Draco, while Snorlax 3HKOs.

    CurseLax takes immense amounts of damage from the former sets, though, but Leftovers recovery slight negates this.

    Rain Sweeper: 252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 188 HP / 216+ SpD Snorlax in rain: 234-277 (46.06 - 54.52%) -- 5.86% chance to 2HKO
    DD sets: 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingdra Outrage vs. 188 HP / 104 Def Snorlax: 277-328 (54.52 - 64.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Specs: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 188 HP / 216+ SpD Snorlax: 210-247 (41.33 - 48.62%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Snorlax: 0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 103-123 (35.39 - 42.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  16. W_M

    W_M

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    Jun 20, 2011
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    74
    Umbreon
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Inner Focus (not Waterfall flinch)
    Evs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
    Nature: Bold
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Foul Play
    - Confuse Ray/Torment/Yawn/Sunny Day

    *Use Wish+Protect against RainDance Kingdra.
    *Specs Kingdra never 2HKOs to Umbreon.
    *Use your enemy's attack with Foul Play if you are in front of a DDer Kingdra.
  17. Celever

    Celever

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    Sep 25, 2012
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    2,640
    Empoleon? Yeah, that thing?

    Empoleon has steel and water typing, and so it resists both of kingdra's STABs. In fact, the set it usually runs leaves it hitting empoleon for neutral damage at best. Personally I like specs empoleon, since it can switch into kingdra to either pressurize it out or just kill it with a powerful hidden power, if you do it about twice, once if it is weakened with hazards, or you get a critical hit obviously. It beats out kingdra defensive, and it means that it also beats it out offensively and in my opinion is the best kingdra counter.
    But hey, my team has a milotic as a wall as well so I have a pretty good standing against kingdra.
  18. hilarious

    hilarious

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    Jul 18, 2010
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    lots of these are not good counters because the best kingdra is monoattacking kingdra yup yup.

    it happens like a gazillion times: "bronzong is out to set up sr. go kindgdra! my opponent thinks haha i can use toxic! i use dd on that turn. my opponent is like lol tying to set up while poisoned noob! i use dd again as they do diddly squat with whatever (except explosion!?!). my opponent begins to get worried "oh no why did i do only diddly squat i usually do at least diddly squat+10%!" but alas too late my opponent will be far down in material at least 67% of the time because i only attack with sleep talk so no chance for confusion and the best they can do is send in a flygon or something (which can be slower after 2 or 3 boosts depending on evs) and pray i don't pick outrage out of two tries. so things like bronzong and ferroseed and even empoleon (loses in last poke situations) and other bulky waters are absolutely cruddy counters to the best kingdra set. yes you can usually beat off kingdra hehehe but on the rare occasion it is actually a monokingdra you sport a large chance to get 6-0d (unless you have ditto :0).

    of course its not common i think so hmmm idk :s but i would go as far to say as kingdra has no true defensive counters except for special circumstances (foul play, wow+taunt, perhaps leechy seedy) because the potency of the monoset!!!


    and curselax countering kingdra?!?!?! most definitions of counter go like "i can switch into you fearlessly and force you out/badly disrupt you with little risk to myself."

    snorlax switched into kingdra! kingdra used dd! kingdra used outrage. snorlax almost died! snorlax used return/bslam. kingdra is even more outraged. kingdra killed off snorlax." how did the counter scenario work?!!?!

    umbreon is cool but i dunno if you should use inner focus (yes you are a better kingdra counter but synchronize is really cool to come into things like scald and wow and toxix. not worth the switch imo and sunny day is overkill).

    k thanks if you read thats all!!!!
  19. Vashimus

    Vashimus

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    Feb 26, 2013
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    158
    Empoleon (and Ferroseed) was super obvious and already added, hence why people are thinking of other counters.
  20. Pikabuster

    Pikabuster

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    Mar 7, 2013
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    10
    Meh, I found that Bisharp is a kind of check towards Kingdra. Though he can't handle special variants of Kingdra at all (unless it already draco meteored once), he is pretty safe against physical or even rain dance variants as he can easily sub/sd on the set up move and X2 Sucker Punch ohkos every time. It survives Physical Kingdra's attacks pretty easily too, especially outrage
  21. Cesky

    Cesky

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
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    @Zaon Actually Milotic is the best check (bar Empoleon) to Kingdra as far as bulky waters are concerned. With access to Haze it doesn't become set up bait to SubDance variants with Lum Berry like Slowbro and Slowking do.

    Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 252 Def / 240 HP / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Haze

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