1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Creative (and good) Movesets Mk II (READ THE OP FIRST)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by sax king, Jan 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Yeah actually, I've seen Starmie use Trick Orb effectively as well, mainly for Ferrothorn. I'd be a bit worried when using that Celebi that Heatran doesn't care at all about anything you can do, and same for a lot of common special attackers which like to switch in like Latios and Gengar. Not a bad set at all though.
  2. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    [​IMG]
    Victini @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - V-create
    - Final Gambit
    - Fusion Bolt


    I want post it here. This set is incredible, it can destroy any sun team (without heatran) and hit hard everything with V-create boosted from Fire Gem and sun. Fusion bolt is for Politoed and other water types, Final Gambit is mainly for Tyranitar and Hippowdon.
  3. Joel

    Joel

    Joined:
    May 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,203
    Should there be a 0 Speed IV for your set?
  4. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,261
    Victini has a great movepool and Final Gambit is such a waste in my opinion. Why not use more specific moves to counter threats such as Hippowdon or Tyranitar instead of just sacrificing yourself and hoping to take them out?

    4 SpAtk Life Orb Victini Grass Knot vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hippowdon (+SpDef) : 47.62% - 56.19%
    4 SpAtk Life Orb Victini Grass Knot vs 252 HP/120 SpDef Tyranitar (+SpDef) : 30.2% - 35.64%

    Grass Knot clearly takes care of Hippowdon and does some damage to Tyranitar, especially if it isn't a specially defensive variant.

    252 Atk Life Orb Victini (+Atk) Brick Break vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 89.11% - 104.95%
    252 Atk Life Orb Victini (+Atk) Brick Break vs 252 HP/0 Def Heatran: 48.19% - 56.99%

    Brick Break can usually let Victini win against Tyranitar and Heatran with enough investment (which is likely considering V-Create)

    So clearly you can't run Trick Room, V-Create, Fusion Bolt, Brick Break, and Grass Knot, but I just hate Final Gambit and I think that Victini shouldn't rely on it for hoping to beat certain threats
  5. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    I'm agree with you, I hate Final Gambit too, but I use this Victini in sun team, so if I kill hippowdon or tyranitar I won, in practice.
    Also, if I use brick break I can't touch decently hippowdon and if I use grass knot I lost my Victini against Tyranitar.

    edit: it also has no ivs in speed
  6. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,534
    I see a flaw in this entire argument, namely;Doesn't grass knot deal with bulky waters well enough? I suppose there are a few, like vaporeon and tentacruel, that don't care as much, but they generally have low physical bulk, and that assumes they've invested much in it at all. V-create ought to be able to break them. (Well, not in rain, but in rain that set's easier to counter anyhow)

    Also, if you're a trick room set, hp is nice, but why not just run 252 attack and 252 Special attack?
  7. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    This set must works in sun obviously, where V-Create is powerful. He isn't 252 special attack and 252 attack because I don't want a mixed sweeper.
    And... What type of hidden power?
  8. LudwiG

    LudwiG

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    130
    Fusion bolt deals with bulky waters.
  9. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Fusion bolt is only for switch in of politoed, however. I prefer hit bulky water with V-Create boosted from fire gem in sun.
  10. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,534
    And so does grass knot. Since the entire argument revolved around not being able to fit all five moves into the set, i figured, why not just cut out fusion bolt if all it does is deal with bulky waters? See, that's why i said "well ENOUGH".


    And if it's just for politoed, it seems like you could still knot it. It's likely to have better special than physical bulk, but still.

    When i said HP i meant... HP evs. If you don't want a mixed sweeper, fine, but i still think it's a better idea. As for "obviously"..., well, there is such a thing as losing the weather war, especially considering that politoed can switch in on fire-type STAB easily, while ninetales has a greater problem switching into water-type STAB and takes 25% from SR.
  11. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Also politoed can't switch in easily on ninetales because it has will-o-wisp and sunny day.
    However, I will try grass knot and your evs spread on Victini, thanks.
  12. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,023
    grass knot does not do much to most water type walls, and is more for desperate needs of coverage and hitting Rock or Ground types. Grass knot should not be on Victini, because it uses up too many evs for the sake of countering a type that Fusion Bolt does better. Grass knot only hits water/ground types harder than Fusion Bolt.
  13. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    825
    grass knot being special seems kind of disadvantageous on a strong physical attacker like victini. fusion bolt will probably hit harder in many situations. the only situation where grass knot wins out is against water/grounds like gastrodon and a 4x uninvested grass knot is not going to be a hell of a lot stronger than a 0.5x stab vcreate. really if you aren't final gambitting them in the face you shouldn't be staying in on them anyway, because they'll laugh at grass knot.

    vap takes more from fbolt, cruel takes more from fbolt, toed takes more from fbolt. not to mention that all three normally invest in physical defense, not special defense, so vcreate won't break them unless you're in sun, packing the gem or both, and really victini is one of those pokemon where if you're in sun you can just be like "fuck the rules, fuck coverage moves, i have fire stab", so neither fbolt nor knot are relevant at that point (generalization). in sun you can obviously get away with just spamming vcreate until the game is over, but that's victini for you lol. no point in running coverage for sand starters when you're just gonna gambit them anyway.
  14. MX42

    MX42

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    Gallade.

    The Anti Stall

    Bulk Up
    Drain Punch
    Night Slash
    Ice Punch

    200 Hp, 56 Atk, 252 SpD

    Careful


    Awesome team. Works great as an anti rain, as all it really fears is Torn T. But after a Bulk Up or two...
  15. UltiMario

    UltiMario

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,180
    I'll probably switch Final Gambit out for Brick Break but Holy shit. This set looks wonderful. I'll be testing this on some new team soon, but likely with some move replacing Final Gambit
  16. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,023
    Ahem. While this set is very effective in its relative tier, it is really hard to pull off due to Gallade's lack of speed. Base 80 is not much, especially when it is not boosted at all. Anything with a mildly powerful special or physical move before Gallade can set up can take it out. This insclides, but is not restricted to Genesect, Latios, and Keldeo, all who can KO with a STAB, Keldeo and Genesect that can even live a boosted hit. I really recommend Shadow Sneak here, as it helps you with your last ditch efforts against faster pokemon. It hits the things Night Slash does, just with priority.

    I really don't get why it would be anti stall however. It is susceptible to both hazardss and phazing, and its lack of immediate power means that you'll have a hard time setting up. Skarmory is a real problem here, as it doesn't take much frim even +2 DPunch and can Whirlwind away or just pummel with brave bird. Your set is also really really weak to status, as a burn would end you, paralysis would cripple you hard, and sleep would make you easy to set up on.
  17. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Thanks! Unfortunately if I use brick break on Victini, it's blocked hard from hippowdon
  18. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude A sunflower holds its head up high!
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    hmm what about U-turn>Final Gambit that is especially good on full Trickroom teams so you can get one of your sweepers in. Or a pokemon that can handle Hippowdon.

    p.s awesome set btw i must try it it looks so "Anti-Sun" even if it is not used on a Full Trickroom team because Cholorphyl sweepers won't apreaciate having terrible speed stats in sun. Great set for weatherless teams which usaully have sun problems.
  19. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Good idea superpowerdude, I really like it. I will try u-turn
  20. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,534
    A strong physical attacker? It's got the same base attack and spatk, and i recommended that it be ev'd in special attack. Seeing as it's a TR set, he's not giving up speed, just bulk, in return for making it much more threatening. And i clearly said most of those take more from Fbolt already. Also, slowbro says hello. And since this guy's really supposed to TR on the switch, 2hitko'ing him isn't going to cut it. If you're going to hit him on the switch-in, you should at least make it an OHKO, or close.
    Yeah, if you want to final gambit things that's cool, but i'd prefer to move away from a one-shot move that only works in certain circumstances, and instead go for coverage. After all, victini has the power to KO plenty of stuff, and under TR, to outspeed it too.

    As for u-turn, i suppose that works, but on an SR-weak pokemon, switching in and out isn't the greatest response to being walled. Try it if you like though, it could work.
  21. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    I like to put here some sets so...

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychic / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick
    - Healing Wish

    I love the versatility of this Latias. It's a very good revengekiller of other dragons and of kami with choice scarf, it can use trick on walls like Blissey, Chansey and Jirachi and when it's almost dead, it can fully recharge a teammate. This set is a good support for many team, I suggest you to try it.
  22. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    I have been using a similar set to this and I can definitely attest to it's effectiveness. It outspeeds all other common Dragons, even when they're scarf bar Latios which is nice for grabbing a surprise kill on a +1 Dragonite or Scarf Salamence. It's also a great offensive check to Sun and Rain, with it's great natural special bulk which is what Scarf Latios cannot successfully pull off. Generally for the moves I find Hidden Power [Fire] the most useful as Latias's second moveslot. With Draco Meteor you hit everything that isn't a Steel type, which is what Hidden Power [Fire] hits. Even Heatran who is the only common resist to Dragon and Fire does not appreciate a Trick, as if it switches in on Latias it's going to be Specially Defensive and Trick pretty much renders it useless.
  23. Bl1tzkri3g

    Bl1tzkri3g

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    I also really like this set. I've found Hp Fire is almost mandatory, or else you get raped by scizor before you can utilize Scarf Latias to her fullest.

    [​IMG]@ Chesto Berry
    248 Hp/ 252 SpD/ 8 Spd
    Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)

    • Rest
    • Stealth Rock
    • Magma Storm/Fire Blast/Lava Plume
    • Roar/Earth Power/Hp Grass
    ChestoRest Heatran is a champ, takes status well, and really solves Heatran's problem of being worn down too quickly. In most matches I'll find that heatran takes hits well enough, but just cant stand up to a repeated onslaught. This is why this set works so well; it removes the problem of getting beat down. Moves are easy, Rocks cause everyone needs them, Rest is obvious, and the others are just filler. This is such a good set.
  24. Skore

    Skore

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    836
    Throwing my support in for this little gem. Decided to build a trickroom sun team just to test it and oh wow. It kicks ass in a bad way. I swapped Final Gambit out for Brick Break to take out T-Tar and it did the job nicely.
  25. Ashley11

    Ashley11

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    Gengar@focus sash
    Ability: levitate
    Nature timid
    Evs 252 speed 252 spA 4 spD
    Counter
    Destiny bond
    Shadow ball
    Hypnosis/sludge bomb/will o wisp

    This set is great overall, with the right teammates. It is mainly a sacrifice of one of your pokes to take down two of your opponets'. Counter is to kill of anything that desires to kill you with a physical move, and destiny bond is for you to get rid of one more thing before you die. Shadow ball is for an attack to use if you can't kill something else before you die with destiny bond, and then you have a utility filler. You can have hypnosis to get something asleep, sludge bomb for more coverage, or will o wisp for crippling.

    This set is unpredictable and people will not expect it. You can almost guarantee one KO, and maybe more. You will need a spinner though for stealth rocks. Thankfully you won't have to worry about spikes because of levitate.

    All credit of this goes to killer nacho off of YouTube.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)