LOL. Get over yourself, I was clarifying what he said was wrong. I know what OO means I don't need a loud mouth to clarify that for me. Other option sets are viable but simply not recommended. If semantics had anything to do with the arguemnt,(which they did) then I have every right to question him about. The fact it was merely suggested in the analysis at all proves that it has some viability. Don't go calling me butthurt especially since you're the one coming off with the aggressive tone. My sets is plenty viable and works just fine in practice, I peeked at the top 10 with the team I made, so don't tell me it isn't good. If you can't accept the fact that I made a set work that you don't agree with, that's your problem, I'm just suggesting its viability which you won't even bother testing; rather just throwing around bull shit ideas without any proof to back it up. I've made my arguments backing up this set clear, and if you just keep using theories instead of actually testing it, than there's no reason I should take anything you say seriously. FYI, arguments are won with solid evidence not aggressive comments, so try and calm down.
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Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
- Start date
- Status
Aggression in bold.
This applies to you too; don't make rules for others that you yourself don't have to adhere to.
Also by that last sentence, you've just lost this "argument"; this spectator is still waiting for evidence more than just an "I made the top ten" claim.
I do believe that your set works, and probably works well. Outside of nonsense like special Haxorus, very few things are completely non-viable in this game we all play. Now, a Pokemon "not being non-viable" and "performing to the best of its abilities" are two different things, and I've seen the standard Bulk Up set do exactly what your set does: be a status absorber, dissuade status moves from being used, and hit hard; the Bulk Up set just foregoes Ice Punch for the ability to make itself hit harder, as well as your EV's (is there a reason for those EV's - specifically Spe - BTW? I'm merely curious, as I've found minimizing Speed with no EV/IV's and a Brave nature goes better with Payback). That being said, I'd think that a normal Guts-abusing Bulk Up Conk just happens to work better and more consistently that the set you posted, not having to rely on your opponent to set up like you normally would be able to. While it is possible to use your opponent against them, it often doesn't turn out how you'd like it to (fellow Ditto-users, you know what I'm talking about). I use Sableye, Jirachi, and Breloom for status on my current team; if I see a Conk on the opposing team, I have to think a lot more if I want to mash that Will-O-Wisp button in this match, or abuse those Body Slams this match, or even use Spore at all this match. It makes your Conk's power something that I control, not you. That's why Bulk Up seems to work more often for me, cause if I'm running Bulk Up, I control my power completely, and a random status is just icing and not the cake itself.
This is what people are telling you - not attacking you. Yes, surprise wins lots of matches, but consistency and the ability to set up yourself wins more in the long run.
Let's move on.
Top 10 is very easy on PS. Every average player without a terrible team and solid enough play can get him there. Unless you are talking about PO, which may be harder. First off that set is a waste of time, just run Guts Flame Orb. Yes, while it may be true not every player will be smart eith their status moves, anybody average will probably catch wind of that. Kingdra is also not relying on their opponents. Rain Dance Kingdra carries Rain Dance itself. While Rain is just a provided bonus in our metagame that makes it better. Status is not guaranteed, which makes the set a little less effective.
Havent visited this thread for two pages. Comes back. Page is Hell.
In any case, I have a not-so creative Probopass, but it's got one thing going for it I guess. Probopass has high defenses (think about the prevalence of Ice Beam vs Probo in the sand), and a shallow but usable movepool that I wanted to explore. Although it's true; the current sets are home to the most appropriate ways to utilize him, I use him in a different way. Further comments below.
Proboclass @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm/Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Protect
- Toxic
- Torment
As you can already tell, the set is almost the exact same as the on-site one, but I feel that the last move is great for Tormenting the foe. As aforementioned, Probopass's defenses are incredibly high, and with the type that he has, sand allows him to tank hits. Probopass does have sturdy, and still takes 6% from Stealth Rocks, I believe, but with leftovers it is possible for him to heal that. Toxic hits walls, and helps Torment Stall. Volt Switch is what makes this set different, and usable, than Heatran's TormentTran set. It allows for an easy gain of momentum on slower foes, or on predicted switches.
But, the only creative part of this moveset is the use of Torment. Probopass, as mentioned twice above, has incredible defenses, allowing him to pull of Torment surprisingly well. Common switch-ins consist of every fighting type that has ever existed in the Ou metagame. Taking this into account, a good deal of them are choiced (don't even think about staying in on a Lucario, you know that's stupid). With the prevalence of choice items, Torment becomes increasingly viable on any pokemon, especially one with bulk to back it up. Probopass is easily able to come in on a special move (presumably a not very effective one), tank it, and use any one of it's moves on either a prediction, or just because it's the best play possible. Torment also helps stall out turns; stall wars become prominent with the first sign of this move, and your opponent must play readily while they are Tormented, or else risk missing out on the use of a game changing move. The downfalls of Torment: It does NOT affect Outrage, and it does not affect a pokemon after it has switched out. However, the good thing is, it doesn't run out while the pokemon is in, unlike Taunt. PROTECT is used to kill the super effective moves, as Probopass has two common weaknesses, which most pokemon carry only one answer to (Fighting/Ground)
Now, the best way to utilize Torment is with someone that can use Protect, so it can be an option for Probopass to help ease prediction a lot, but I think it's current moves are probably the best it has to offer in Ou.
Suggested Partners: Parasect, but it sucks in Ou. Gastrodon is good, to take in water. Gengar to take in fighting. Jellicent to do both. And, most importantly, a Dual Screener is suggested to help with longevity. Dual Screens are only for dedicated Torment support teams. Xatu resists everything Super Effective to Probopass, and Probopass the same (I think) to Xatu.
If that wasnt too much, I ran some calcs to see exactly how well this goes:
By the way, if the opponent is using Surf, feel free to lolol at them. Anyway, staying in on these with Probopass, though dangerous, may be worth it sometimes, to inflict status for cripple Choicemon with Torment. Torment allows makes the opponent want to switch, so that gives you the chance to gain initiative with Volt Switch, another Torment, and Paralysis, and you will just generally rack up Stealth Rock damage. I would love to see Torment used more with Probopass in the sand; the Volt Switch initiative that Heatran misses out on is valuable.
Thanks to Jimera0 and Onicon.
In any case, I have a not-so creative Probopass, but it's got one thing going for it I guess. Probopass has high defenses (think about the prevalence of Ice Beam vs Probo in the sand), and a shallow but usable movepool that I wanted to explore. Although it's true; the current sets are home to the most appropriate ways to utilize him, I use him in a different way. Further comments below.
Proboclass @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm/Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Protect
- Toxic
- Torment
As you can already tell, the set is almost the exact same as the on-site one, but I feel that the last move is great for Tormenting the foe. As aforementioned, Probopass's defenses are incredibly high, and with the type that he has, sand allows him to tank hits. Probopass does have sturdy, and still takes 6% from Stealth Rocks, I believe, but with leftovers it is possible for him to heal that. Toxic hits walls, and helps Torment Stall. Volt Switch is what makes this set different, and usable, than Heatran's TormentTran set. It allows for an easy gain of momentum on slower foes, or on predicted switches.
But, the only creative part of this moveset is the use of Torment. Probopass, as mentioned twice above, has incredible defenses, allowing him to pull of Torment surprisingly well. Common switch-ins consist of every fighting type that has ever existed in the Ou metagame. Taking this into account, a good deal of them are choiced (don't even think about staying in on a Lucario, you know that's stupid). With the prevalence of choice items, Torment becomes increasingly viable on any pokemon, especially one with bulk to back it up. Probopass is easily able to come in on a special move (presumably a not very effective one), tank it, and use any one of it's moves on either a prediction, or just because it's the best play possible. Torment also helps stall out turns; stall wars become prominent with the first sign of this move, and your opponent must play readily while they are Tormented, or else risk missing out on the use of a game changing move. The downfalls of Torment: It does NOT affect Outrage, and it does not affect a pokemon after it has switched out. However, the good thing is, it doesn't run out while the pokemon is in, unlike Taunt. PROTECT is used to kill the super effective moves, as Probopass has two common weaknesses, which most pokemon carry only one answer to (Fighting/Ground)
Now, the best way to utilize Torment is with someone that can use Protect, so it can be an option for Probopass to help ease prediction a lot, but I think it's current moves are probably the best it has to offer in Ou.
Suggested Partners: Parasect, but it sucks in Ou. Gastrodon is good, to take in water. Gengar to take in fighting. Jellicent to do both. And, most importantly, a Dual Screener is suggested to help with longevity. Dual Screens are only for dedicated Torment support teams. Xatu resists everything Super Effective to Probopass, and Probopass the same (I think) to Xatu.
If that wasnt too much, I ran some calcs to see exactly how well this goes:
Latios: In the sand:
252SpAtk Choice Specs Latios (+SAtk) Surf in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 38% - 45% (124 - 146 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
With Screens:
252SpAtk Choice Specs Latios (+SAtk) Surf in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef) behind a Light Screen: 19% - 22% (62 - 74 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.
That right there, is absolutely phenomenal.
Any Terrakion will take it down to it's Sturdy. Don't stay in on this unless you desperately need to status/torment this guy. ESPECIALLY without Reflect!
Keldeo:
Sacred Sword (KILLS)
Hydro Pump:
252SpAtk Life Orb Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 61% - 74% (200 - 240 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
W/ Lefties
252SpAtk Leftovers Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 48% - 57% (156 - 186 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 14% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
W/ Screens and Leftovers.
252SpAtk Dragon Gem Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef) behind a Light Screen: 24% - 29% (80 - 96 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
W/ Screens and Life Orb:
252SpAtk Life Orb Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef) behind a Light Screen: 32% - 37% (104 - 122 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Choice Specs Latios (+SAtk) Surf in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 38% - 45% (124 - 146 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
With Screens:
252SpAtk Choice Specs Latios (+SAtk) Surf in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef) behind a Light Screen: 19% - 22% (62 - 74 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.
That right there, is absolutely phenomenal.
Any Terrakion will take it down to it's Sturdy. Don't stay in on this unless you desperately need to status/torment this guy. ESPECIALLY without Reflect!
Keldeo:
Sacred Sword (KILLS)
Hydro Pump:
252SpAtk Life Orb Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 61% - 74% (200 - 240 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
W/ Lefties
252SpAtk Leftovers Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 48% - 57% (156 - 186 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 14% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
W/ Screens and Leftovers.
252SpAtk Dragon Gem Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef) behind a Light Screen: 24% - 29% (80 - 96 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
W/ Screens and Life Orb:
252SpAtk Life Orb Keldeo (+SAtk) Hydro Pump in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef) behind a Light Screen: 32% - 37% (104 - 122 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
By the way, if the opponent is using Surf, feel free to lolol at them. Anyway, staying in on these with Probopass, though dangerous, may be worth it sometimes, to inflict status for cripple Choicemon with Torment. Torment allows makes the opponent want to switch, so that gives you the chance to gain initiative with Volt Switch, another Torment, and Paralysis, and you will just generally rack up Stealth Rock damage. I would love to see Torment used more with Probopass in the sand; the Volt Switch initiative that Heatran misses out on is valuable.
Thanks to Jimera0 and Onicon.
@Shovel
My thoughts, in order, when looking at your set;
1) Probopass in OU? This had better be good
2) Torment? Now there's an ide-
3) He doesn't have Protect as a pimary move? NO NO NO DOING IT WRONG!
4) Screens support for a defensive Pokemon? That's just... no no no. It just doesn't last long enough!
5) Those are totally bad examples too there has got to be a better way to do this.
SO I'd like to make a few suggestions. The first and most important is that any Torment abusing Pokemon NEEDS protect to have any hope of being effective with it. The idea behind Tormentran, for instance, is to stall out Pokemon who have only one attacking option with which to hit him. IE Life Orb Tornadus-T with
Superpower. Use Torment, then you can use protect whenever they use Superpower and attack when they use an ineffective move. It should be the same idea for your Probopass. There are NOT enough choice users are around to justify using Tormen-pass without protect, not when there are much, much better ways to deal with choice users that AREN'T rendered useless against Life orb variants (regenerator Pokemon come to mind as a much more effective alternative). In order for Probopass to warrent a team slot it has to deal with more than just choice users and to do that it NEEDS Protect.
Secondly, you need to understand that for Probopass to be useful on an OU team it has to be doing something that nothing else can; Probopass is not good enough in OU to be a utility Pokemon. As such, something like Stealth Rock that can easily be put on much better Pokemon should not be taking up space on Probopasses' moveset. Instead, I suggest something like Toxic or an attacking more in order to actually, y'know, harm the Pokemon it's Tormen-stalling.
Finally, you need to pick better examples of Pokemon Probopass can viably torment-stall. You're missing out on showing the general utility of Probopass against other Pokemon. Probopass has nasty common weaknesses, but Pokemon that carry these moves rarely carry more than one of those types. This means that Probopass can torment many other Pokemon as well. Let's think about stuff like Tornadus-T, who can only really hurt Probopass with Superpower. Torment allows you to block that and then hit it on the turn it's forced to use Hurricane. Many defensive Pokemon will be completely helpless against this Probopass. Slowbro, for instance, will be forced to use Flamethrower or Psychic every other turn while toxic whittles away health.
Also, I think Volt-Switch may well be the best idea on this set. Torment forces switches, so you can easily gain momentum using Torment to get a free turn for a Slow-switch. This is the only thing that could potentially set this set appart from Heatran as a tormenter, as this allows Probopass to use Volt-Switch and torment to support the team by gaining momentum and providing free turns.
I think that properly executed this could be an interestesting set to test; however I am skeptical of Probopass' ability to actually pull it off. While not many things have more than one move that can hit Probopass for super-effective damage, Probopass doesn't have the same quite the same selection of resistances and immunities to take advantage of that Heatran does. This means that it's more likely to be worn down by nuetral attacks (mostly grass, fire and electric) than Heatran is.
Still, this set is interesting and I could see it working well with my improvements to it. Just don't try to shove stuff like Stealth Rock on there, as Probopass doesn't really have moveslots to spare when it comes to torment-stalling. It NEEDS Protect and NEEDS Torment, which leaves it with two moves to use, one of which should be Volt-Switch. Taking up the final slot with something like Stealth Rock totally ruins the purpose of the set.
EDIT: Note edited several errors I made typing this up, reread it before replying
My thoughts, in order, when looking at your set;
1) Probopass in OU? This had better be good
2) Torment? Now there's an ide-
3) He doesn't have Protect as a pimary move? NO NO NO DOING IT WRONG!
4) Screens support for a defensive Pokemon? That's just... no no no. It just doesn't last long enough!
5) Those are totally bad examples too there has got to be a better way to do this.
SO I'd like to make a few suggestions. The first and most important is that any Torment abusing Pokemon NEEDS protect to have any hope of being effective with it. The idea behind Tormentran, for instance, is to stall out Pokemon who have only one attacking option with which to hit him. IE Life Orb Tornadus-T with
Superpower. Use Torment, then you can use protect whenever they use Superpower and attack when they use an ineffective move. It should be the same idea for your Probopass. There are NOT enough choice users are around to justify using Tormen-pass without protect, not when there are much, much better ways to deal with choice users that AREN'T rendered useless against Life orb variants (regenerator Pokemon come to mind as a much more effective alternative). In order for Probopass to warrent a team slot it has to deal with more than just choice users and to do that it NEEDS Protect.
Secondly, you need to understand that for Probopass to be useful on an OU team it has to be doing something that nothing else can; Probopass is not good enough in OU to be a utility Pokemon. As such, something like Stealth Rock that can easily be put on much better Pokemon should not be taking up space on Probopasses' moveset. Instead, I suggest something like Toxic or an attacking more in order to actually, y'know, harm the Pokemon it's Tormen-stalling.
Finally, you need to pick better examples of Pokemon Probopass can viably torment-stall. You're missing out on showing the general utility of Probopass against other Pokemon. Probopass has nasty common weaknesses, but Pokemon that carry these moves rarely carry more than one of those types. This means that Probopass can torment many other Pokemon as well. Let's think about stuff like Tornadus-T, who can only really hurt Probopass with Superpower. Torment allows you to block that and then hit it on the turn it's forced to use Hurricane. Many defensive Pokemon will be completely helpless against this Probopass. Slowbro, for instance, will be forced to use Flamethrower or Psychic every other turn while toxic whittles away health.
Also, I think Volt-Switch may well be the best idea on this set. Torment forces switches, so you can easily gain momentum using Torment to get a free turn for a Slow-switch. This is the only thing that could potentially set this set appart from Heatran as a tormenter, as this allows Probopass to use Volt-Switch and torment to support the team by gaining momentum and providing free turns.
I think that properly executed this could be an interestesting set to test; however I am skeptical of Probopass' ability to actually pull it off. While not many things have more than one move that can hit Probopass for super-effective damage, Probopass doesn't have the same quite the same selection of resistances and immunities to take advantage of that Heatran does. This means that it's more likely to be worn down by nuetral attacks (mostly grass, fire and electric) than Heatran is.
Still, this set is interesting and I could see it working well with my improvements to it. Just don't try to shove stuff like Stealth Rock on there, as Probopass doesn't really have moveslots to spare when it comes to torment-stalling. It NEEDS Protect and NEEDS Torment, which leaves it with two moves to use, one of which should be Volt-Switch. Taking up the final slot with something like Stealth Rock totally ruins the purpose of the set.
EDIT: Note edited several errors I made typing this up, reread it before replying
If you ask me, when using a Tormentor Protect is mandatory in order to catch the moves it is weak to; after all, Probopass doesn't have that onesided weaknesses (Fighting, Ground) for nothing. That also means, that it should forgo Volt Switch for anything else, when it intend to stay in. You also should have toxic support rather than paralysis because there is no point in Torment when you aren't going for a stall war - nothing prevents you from ThunderWaving right of the bat anyway.
Probopass should be given Torment, Protect, Toxic and a move of choice, at least I would. However, I recommend you to take a look at Bastiodon, who has the same typing, the same ability, the same amount of HP, but slightly more Def and SDef, and last but not least, Roar.
*For teammates, have a look at Xatu; it has Dual Screen and can take Fighting moves all the day. Magic Bounce is a nifty bonus.
Edit: Better read Jimera0's post, for you are much better in English. Torment-Switch actually sonds workable, we should try on Hydreigon next time.
Probopass should be given Torment, Protect, Toxic and a move of choice, at least I would. However, I recommend you to take a look at Bastiodon, who has the same typing, the same ability, the same amount of HP, but slightly more Def and SDef, and last but not least, Roar.
*For teammates, have a look at Xatu; it has Dual Screen and can take Fighting moves all the day. Magic Bounce is a nifty bonus.
Edit: Better read Jimera0's post, for you are much better in English. Torment-Switch actually sonds workable, we should try on Hydreigon next time.
Talking about Torment sets...
Bisharp @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Moves:
- Torment
- Protect
- Substitute / Toxic
- Night Slash
Bisharp actually offers everything, a Torment user needs. It has nice typing with 11 resistances and only 3 weaknesses in Fighting, Ground, and Fire, while the least Pokemon in OU carry even two of these types for coverage. Its Base stats are somewhat beneficial to it, as it hits 334 HP / 328 Def / 176 SpD, letting it take physical attacks quite nicely, on the special side however, it's not even close as bulky, but who cares, thanks to Torment. Pressure is Bisharp's lately released Hidden Ability, which helps wearing down its opponent's PPs quicker than they like. Protect to ensure it's not being hit by the next best move against it. On the other turn, Substitute enlarges its stalling capabilities, whereas Toxic can be used to wear down most walls. Night Slash is probably its best attacking option, as it has decent Base power combined with Bisharp's really helpful base 125 Attack, making Foul Play usually the worse option.
On the third slot, a Fighting-type move like Low Sweep, Low Kick or Brick Break might work for additional coverage, but I've never tested this to be honest, I have no clue if it really works..
I've seen only two Pokemon being able to break through this easily: Heatran (when running a Fire STAB move along with Earth Power) and Salamence (non-Choice Fire Blast + Earthquake), but lately Breloom and Conkeldurr cause trouble, running two Fighting-type moves. Else, it's real fun to use this set.
Bisharp @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Moves:
- Torment
- Protect
- Substitute / Toxic
- Night Slash
Bisharp actually offers everything, a Torment user needs. It has nice typing with 11 resistances and only 3 weaknesses in Fighting, Ground, and Fire, while the least Pokemon in OU carry even two of these types for coverage. Its Base stats are somewhat beneficial to it, as it hits 334 HP / 328 Def / 176 SpD, letting it take physical attacks quite nicely, on the special side however, it's not even close as bulky, but who cares, thanks to Torment. Pressure is Bisharp's lately released Hidden Ability, which helps wearing down its opponent's PPs quicker than they like. Protect to ensure it's not being hit by the next best move against it. On the other turn, Substitute enlarges its stalling capabilities, whereas Toxic can be used to wear down most walls. Night Slash is probably its best attacking option, as it has decent Base power combined with Bisharp's really helpful base 125 Attack, making Foul Play usually the worse option.
On the third slot, a Fighting-type move like Low Sweep, Low Kick or Brick Break might work for additional coverage, but I've never tested this to be honest, I have no clue if it really works..
I've seen only two Pokemon being able to break through this easily: Heatran (when running a Fire STAB move along with Earth Power) and Salamence (non-Choice Fire Blast + Earthquake), but lately Breloom and Conkeldurr cause trouble, running two Fighting-type moves. Else, it's real fun to use this set.
@Jimera0:
Thank you soo much for that <3 And, I do believe Thunder Wave isn't needed, so I'll edit the post and put in only Protect (let this be the official edit record). Protect/Torment is really great. As you stated, it can be worn down, especially by physical moves.
The reason I ever put rocks on it, is because I figured you wouldn't really want another Pokemon that is utility and weak to fighting (I think all Stealth Rock users are weak to it, or at least most). But I am very willing to understand your point on running Toxic for stall (that will also be edited in there). And as for different pokemon that it can stall, I actually only said Choice users x: I am certain I can't stall a Keldeo, I just threw in calcs to show how it's bulk backed it up in Ou. As for number 4 on the list of what you said, I use Probopass on a dedicated Sandstall team, I should have said, so the screens would allow for Longevity with Torment stalling with Sandstorm damage and Stealth Rock annoyance.
Volt Switch just so happens to be the ONLY reason to use this Probopass, I think, over TormentTran, or any other user of Torment (not that it is common). So I will agree to this being the total reason of the set.
Thank you so much for the help, I'll edit the original post with what you said. You were great help to me :D
@Onicon: Pretty much this ^ But, Bastiodon is outclassed by Heatran a bit, and Probopass has Volt Switch to set it apart. As for Xatu, I like <3 I'll edit the post with that as a partner.
@Husky: Ohgod. That looks so annoying. With the combination of Torment, Protect, and Pressure, moves like Close Combat will quickly see the end. However, as you already stated, there are some pokemon that are able to go through it. Scizor's Bug Bite will hit neutrally, while, though uncommon, Brick Break can help stall that out a bit. And you seem to be forgetting about Special Lucario, too, who runs Vacuum Wave and Aura Sphere against your deceivingly low special defense.
However, both of the things I said aren't used as often, seeing as I haven't actually seen a Lucario in awhile and I see Super Power more than Brick Break. (As of right now, Im too lazy to see if Scizor is faster than Bisharp. I don't think it is.)
Edit: I would also like to point out SubMagnezone as a threatening pokemon. It can set up a sub, or T-Bolt/Hp Fire your bad SpDef, while it traps you. Night Slash wont do much, and you'll have to rely on PP stall.
Thank you soo much for that <3 And, I do believe Thunder Wave isn't needed, so I'll edit the post and put in only Protect (let this be the official edit record). Protect/Torment is really great. As you stated, it can be worn down, especially by physical moves.
The reason I ever put rocks on it, is because I figured you wouldn't really want another Pokemon that is utility and weak to fighting (I think all Stealth Rock users are weak to it, or at least most). But I am very willing to understand your point on running Toxic for stall (that will also be edited in there). And as for different pokemon that it can stall, I actually only said Choice users x: I am certain I can't stall a Keldeo, I just threw in calcs to show how it's bulk backed it up in Ou. As for number 4 on the list of what you said, I use Probopass on a dedicated Sandstall team, I should have said, so the screens would allow for Longevity with Torment stalling with Sandstorm damage and Stealth Rock annoyance.
Volt Switch just so happens to be the ONLY reason to use this Probopass, I think, over TormentTran, or any other user of Torment (not that it is common). So I will agree to this being the total reason of the set.
Thank you so much for the help, I'll edit the original post with what you said. You were great help to me :D
@Onicon: Pretty much this ^ But, Bastiodon is outclassed by Heatran a bit, and Probopass has Volt Switch to set it apart. As for Xatu, I like <3 I'll edit the post with that as a partner.
@Husky: Ohgod. That looks so annoying. With the combination of Torment, Protect, and Pressure, moves like Close Combat will quickly see the end. However, as you already stated, there are some pokemon that are able to go through it. Scizor's Bug Bite will hit neutrally, while, though uncommon, Brick Break can help stall that out a bit. And you seem to be forgetting about Special Lucario, too, who runs Vacuum Wave and Aura Sphere against your deceivingly low special defense.
However, both of the things I said aren't used as often, seeing as I haven't actually seen a Lucario in awhile and I see Super Power more than Brick Break. (As of right now, Im too lazy to see if Scizor is faster than Bisharp. I don't think it is.)
Edit: I would also like to point out SubMagnezone as a threatening pokemon. It can set up a sub, or T-Bolt/Hp Fire your bad SpDef, while it traps you. Night Slash wont do much, and you'll have to rely on PP stall.
@Husky: Wouldn't a faster Fighting move end Bisharp then and there?
Okay, so Shadow Tag Gothitelle isn't actually out yet, and that being the case, this is theorymon. But I think it could be a very dangerous Pokémon to deal with; you get one chance to try and inflict meaningful damage, and then you're screwed.
Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 160 Spe (these need optimized)
Moves:
- Trick
- Torment
- Protect
- Psychic / Tickle
So, the basic idea is very simple: Come in (either by switching in on a defensive Pokémon without much offensive presence or as a revenge killer) and Trick your Choice Scarf onto an opposing Pokémon. Follow up with Torment- this will force the opponent to Struggle every other turn. So, you Protect on alternate turns and let them kill themselves with Struggle recoil. Psychic is filler; you can also run Tickle. Tickle makes Gothitelle incapable of dealing direct damage, but it does let you give something a free switch-in when Gothitelle is killed. You generally want Psychic for a reason I outline below, even if Tickle does let you pull off a kind of ghetto-Memento.
This set has a very specific purpose- it can effortlessly eliminate exactly one wall. I think it could prove quite valuable to a heavy offense team for that utility- if Ferrothorn is the biggest defensive threat to your team, Gothitelle can take Ferrothorn out with ease. Once it's gone, sweep.
Taunt isn't a problem, despite what you'd think- you'll outrun most of the things you're going to be killing with Gothitelle due to the Scarf and the Speed EVs. To be precise- you can outrun max Speed base 90s, most notably Deoxys-D. Meaning that, if they Taunt, they're locked into it; you can easily exploit this. You need to manage a 16HKO- hardly a tough feat. Chip away with Psychic and anything that's not a Dark-type will fall... eventually.
It's a rather niche utility Pokémon, but it's probably the best Pokémon in the game when you need to take out a single wall and you need to do it reliably. Think of it like using Heatran or Gengar to bait Blissey before Exploding in past generations- it's a 1:1 trade where the opponent loses much more than you do.
The downside, of course, is that it's not doing much against offense; it can maybe take out a Conkeldurr or a Reuniclus, but that's about all.
Okay, so Shadow Tag Gothitelle isn't actually out yet, and that being the case, this is theorymon. But I think it could be a very dangerous Pokémon to deal with; you get one chance to try and inflict meaningful damage, and then you're screwed.
Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 160 Spe (these need optimized)
Moves:
- Trick
- Torment
- Protect
- Psychic / Tickle
So, the basic idea is very simple: Come in (either by switching in on a defensive Pokémon without much offensive presence or as a revenge killer) and Trick your Choice Scarf onto an opposing Pokémon. Follow up with Torment- this will force the opponent to Struggle every other turn. So, you Protect on alternate turns and let them kill themselves with Struggle recoil. Psychic is filler; you can also run Tickle. Tickle makes Gothitelle incapable of dealing direct damage, but it does let you give something a free switch-in when Gothitelle is killed. You generally want Psychic for a reason I outline below, even if Tickle does let you pull off a kind of ghetto-Memento.
This set has a very specific purpose- it can effortlessly eliminate exactly one wall. I think it could prove quite valuable to a heavy offense team for that utility- if Ferrothorn is the biggest defensive threat to your team, Gothitelle can take Ferrothorn out with ease. Once it's gone, sweep.
Taunt isn't a problem, despite what you'd think- you'll outrun most of the things you're going to be killing with Gothitelle due to the Scarf and the Speed EVs. To be precise- you can outrun max Speed base 90s, most notably Deoxys-D. Meaning that, if they Taunt, they're locked into it; you can easily exploit this. You need to manage a 16HKO- hardly a tough feat. Chip away with Psychic and anything that's not a Dark-type will fall... eventually.
It's a rather niche utility Pokémon, but it's probably the best Pokémon in the game when you need to take out a single wall and you need to do it reliably. Think of it like using Heatran or Gengar to bait Blissey before Exploding in past generations- it's a 1:1 trade where the opponent loses much more than you do.
The downside, of course, is that it's not doing much against offense; it can maybe take out a Conkeldurr or a Reuniclus, but that's about all.
@ Afti
I thought about your set and noticed a flaw in your planning on how this will work; namely that Gothitelle is going to need to take more than one hit before it can start the struggling process, and also the issue that Struggle still does decent damage is the Pokemon has a decent attack stat and you have no means of recovery.
So the way this set works is this:
Turn 1: you switch Gothitelle in. Gothitelle may or may not take a hit here, depending on if it came in on the heels of a free switch, on a recovery or boosting move, after a Pokemon fainted.
Turn 2: You trick you Scarf to the opponent. The opponent gets a hit on you here
Turn 3: You use torment on the opponent. The opponent gets another hit in on you here.
Turn 4: The opponent struggles, unable to use the move they used last turn due to torment. You whittle away at them with Psychic or Tickle them presumably.
Turn 5: You use protect as the opponent attacks. Cycle is in full motion now.
As you can see here, Gothitelle is forced to take at least 2 hits from most opponents, and risks having the strategy ruined by something like a paralysis inducing move or sleep, which would mess with using protect successfully.
This is a huge blow to this set as it has no form of recovery outside of potential leftovers stolen from the opponent, and greatly lessens the number of Pokemon that it can successfully trap with this strategy. You must also not forget that Struggle DOES do damage, sometimes very noticable damage. So, in order for this Gothitelle to be able to effectively trap and kill an opponent it has to be able to take at least two hits from them plus 4-5 turns of struggle damage. That cuts out a VERY large number of Pokemon and makes the usefulness of this set doubtful. I'll have to do some calculations just to see HOW doubtful it is, but this set is clearly not as effective as you hoped it would be.
EDIT: relaized I screwed up the turn order hang on fixing
EDIT2: WOOPS forgot to remove the edit once I fixed it. God I've probably gone and confused everyone now...
I thought about your set and noticed a flaw in your planning on how this will work; namely that Gothitelle is going to need to take more than one hit before it can start the struggling process, and also the issue that Struggle still does decent damage is the Pokemon has a decent attack stat and you have no means of recovery.
So the way this set works is this:
Turn 1: you switch Gothitelle in. Gothitelle may or may not take a hit here, depending on if it came in on the heels of a free switch, on a recovery or boosting move, after a Pokemon fainted.
Turn 2: You trick you Scarf to the opponent. The opponent gets a hit on you here
Turn 3: You use torment on the opponent. The opponent gets another hit in on you here.
Turn 4: The opponent struggles, unable to use the move they used last turn due to torment. You whittle away at them with Psychic or Tickle them presumably.
Turn 5: You use protect as the opponent attacks. Cycle is in full motion now.
As you can see here, Gothitelle is forced to take at least 2 hits from most opponents, and risks having the strategy ruined by something like a paralysis inducing move or sleep, which would mess with using protect successfully.
This is a huge blow to this set as it has no form of recovery outside of potential leftovers stolen from the opponent, and greatly lessens the number of Pokemon that it can successfully trap with this strategy. You must also not forget that Struggle DOES do damage, sometimes very noticable damage. So, in order for this Gothitelle to be able to effectively trap and kill an opponent it has to be able to take at least two hits from them plus 4-5 turns of struggle damage. That cuts out a VERY large number of Pokemon and makes the usefulness of this set doubtful. I'll have to do some calculations just to see HOW doubtful it is, but this set is clearly not as effective as you hoped it would be.
EDIT: relaized I screwed up the turn order hang on fixing
EDIT2: WOOPS forgot to remove the edit once I fixed it. God I've probably gone and confused everyone now...
True enough! Would probably be better to lose a lot of speed, accept that Deoxys-D beats you, and give Gothitelle much more bulk.
252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe Gothitelle takes 17%-20% from Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball and 33%-38% from Power Whip. The standard set, of course; Choice Band locks you into Trick, so you don't want to use Gothitelle to deal with it! That's ...bad. If you get hit by Power Whip, then if you get Leftovers you're going to be able to survive Struggle; if you don't, you aren't.
The other major defensive threat which would break through Gothitelle that easily is Gliscor. You're not going to do much against Gliscor anyway; it tends to run a Toxic Orb. Meaning that Gothitelle's going to take too much damage from the Poison.
Might just ditch the notion of killing Physical walls and use Gothitelle to take on Special ones; it's far more capable there, thanks to its Special Defense being genuinely good as opposed to merely average. Blissey and Chansey can't kill you, period. With a boost Gastrodon is dangerous; without one, though, you trap it and kill it, risking nothing more than a maximum of 29% from a weak Earthquake. Jellicent is dangerous if it's running Shadow Ball, but without SpA investment it's only a 3HKO; without a SpD drop you'll be fine. Jellicent always runs Leftovers, so you're safe against its Struggle. Latias can't set up without being helplessly locked into Calm Mind, and its Dragon Pulse is weak without setup- maximum of 30%; you get into the cycle safely. Jirachi sucks because its offense is Physical.
Really, you'd want to tailor your specific build to the specific needs of your team- there's a decent list of walls that Gothitelle can manage to eliminate given the appropriate nature and stat spread, many of which are exclusive to each other. It's not perfect at all, but I think it is a niche that'll be worth using Gothitelle for; nothing else does this job. When ST Gothitelle is released on PS, I'll do some playtesting to see if it pulls its weight; it is a problem that you have a Pokémon which does so little against offensive teams. I suppose that if you screw up enough to let the opponent set up, Tickle would let you force them to switch out, abandoning their boosts, and let your own Pokémon get in a boost on the switch. Which... isn't bad, but hardly justifies a slot in itself.
252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe Gothitelle takes 17%-20% from Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball and 33%-38% from Power Whip. The standard set, of course; Choice Band locks you into Trick, so you don't want to use Gothitelle to deal with it! That's ...bad. If you get hit by Power Whip, then if you get Leftovers you're going to be able to survive Struggle; if you don't, you aren't.
The other major defensive threat which would break through Gothitelle that easily is Gliscor. You're not going to do much against Gliscor anyway; it tends to run a Toxic Orb. Meaning that Gothitelle's going to take too much damage from the Poison.
Might just ditch the notion of killing Physical walls and use Gothitelle to take on Special ones; it's far more capable there, thanks to its Special Defense being genuinely good as opposed to merely average. Blissey and Chansey can't kill you, period. With a boost Gastrodon is dangerous; without one, though, you trap it and kill it, risking nothing more than a maximum of 29% from a weak Earthquake. Jellicent is dangerous if it's running Shadow Ball, but without SpA investment it's only a 3HKO; without a SpD drop you'll be fine. Jellicent always runs Leftovers, so you're safe against its Struggle. Latias can't set up without being helplessly locked into Calm Mind, and its Dragon Pulse is weak without setup- maximum of 30%; you get into the cycle safely. Jirachi sucks because its offense is Physical.
Really, you'd want to tailor your specific build to the specific needs of your team- there's a decent list of walls that Gothitelle can manage to eliminate given the appropriate nature and stat spread, many of which are exclusive to each other. It's not perfect at all, but I think it is a niche that'll be worth using Gothitelle for; nothing else does this job. When ST Gothitelle is released on PS, I'll do some playtesting to see if it pulls its weight; it is a problem that you have a Pokémon which does so little against offensive teams. I suppose that if you screw up enough to let the opponent set up, Tickle would let you force them to switch out, abandoning their boosts, and let your own Pokémon get in a boost on the switch. Which... isn't bad, but hardly justifies a slot in itself.
Yeah, that Gothitelle set doesn't seem very useful. For one thing, any choiced user will either outspeed you or KO you, so that's not helping you get anywhere. Not to mention trying to Trick a choiced user is practically useless. What Jimera0 said is also right- with Gothitelle's almost-as-shitty-as-her-face HP, she's not going to be able to tank as many hits as she needs, unless you fully maximize her bulk. Not only that, that set is purely one time use, and there are way better trappers than Gothitelle (Dugtrio, Magnezone, even Wobbuffet)
The Gothitelle could probably work better in lower tiers, which I'm sure it will stay in due to the mentioned better trappers.
Just thought of this. Someone definitely needs to make a team based around this, just to be annoying. And when they do, they should PM me about it because it'd be cool. Not kidding, hit me up.
The following set is for use on a Sun Team:
Cresselia @ Flame Orb
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA (Needs optimized)
~Psychic
~Moonlight
~PsychoShift
~Calm Mind
The idea is that, under sun, Moonlight provides a reliable 66.66% healing. Paired with Cresselia's incredible bulk, Calm Mind to boost her Special Defense, and Psycho Shift burning physical threats, Cresselia should theoretically be able to either stall out the opponent while collecting +6 SpA from Calm Mind and acting a single-attack sweeper. This of course brings up issues with Dark and Steel types, so Dugtrio would be a recommended teammate, to win the weather battle, help get rid of Tyranitars, and trap Heatran and the like.
A second (Probably better) option would be foregoing Flame Orb for Leftovers, and trading Psycho Shift for HP Fighting, allowing Cresselia to hit those that would give the previous set trouble. The 8 max PP on Moonlight probably makes this the superior option, though it'll be less annoying.
The following set is for use on a Sun Team:
Cresselia @ Flame Orb
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA (Needs optimized)
~Psychic
~Moonlight
~PsychoShift
~Calm Mind
The idea is that, under sun, Moonlight provides a reliable 66.66% healing. Paired with Cresselia's incredible bulk, Calm Mind to boost her Special Defense, and Psycho Shift burning physical threats, Cresselia should theoretically be able to either stall out the opponent while collecting +6 SpA from Calm Mind and acting a single-attack sweeper. This of course brings up issues with Dark and Steel types, so Dugtrio would be a recommended teammate, to win the weather battle, help get rid of Tyranitars, and trap Heatran and the like.
A second (Probably better) option would be foregoing Flame Orb for Leftovers, and trading Psycho Shift for HP Fighting, allowing Cresselia to hit those that would give the previous set trouble. The 8 max PP on Moonlight probably makes this the superior option, though it'll be less annoying.
Hey people. Most of you probably won't know me too well, and that's cause I stay away from Smogon. But I had an idea, and a couple of friends on Marriland helped improve it. I think it has potential, and would like to hear your thoughts:
Gliscor Lure Breloom.
Breloom often finds Gliscor switching into it, to try and absorb its Spore and scare it off with the threat of an Acrobatics, right? Or even just shut it down with Taunt.
Well, thanks to Breloom getting the wonderful Technician this generation, it finally has a means of getting around Gliscor;
Naughty Breloom @ Life Orb
244 Atk / 144 Spd / 120 SAtk
Technician
Spore
Bullet Seed
Low Sweep
HP Ice (power 59)
IVs: 31/30/30/29/31/31
Some of you may be thinking 'bitch, please!' at the first impressions of this set, but on paper, it looks promising (haven't been able to test yet):
HP Ice vs standard Gliscor: 91.5% - 108.5%
HP Ice vs CB Flygon: 102.3% - 120.9% (dead)
HP Ice vs Offensive Salamence: 93.1% - 110% (dead)
HP Ice vs Jolly Chomp: 81.8% - 97.5% (almost dead)
That's a surprising amount of power, wouldn't you agree? Breloom's base 60 Special Attack may be paltry, but Technician makes it wonderfully useable. The Speed EVs allow Breloom to outrun any Gliscor after using Low Sweep, which is its means of getting the definite kill (21.2% - 24.9% damage), and the rest is thrown into Attack, for obvious reasons.
Spore's mainly there to keep up appearances, as eyebrows will immediately raised when a Breloom doesn't use Spore.
A few other calcs, while we're here:
Full power Bullet Seed vs Timid Gengar: 124.1% - 146.4%
vs Calm Mind Latias: 71.7% - 84.5% (...not bad at all)
Low Sweep vs 252/252 Blissey: 105.9% - 124.6%
So, uhh... thoughts?
Gliscor Lure Breloom.
Breloom often finds Gliscor switching into it, to try and absorb its Spore and scare it off with the threat of an Acrobatics, right? Or even just shut it down with Taunt.
Well, thanks to Breloom getting the wonderful Technician this generation, it finally has a means of getting around Gliscor;
Naughty Breloom @ Life Orb
244 Atk / 144 Spd / 120 SAtk
Technician
Spore
Bullet Seed
Low Sweep
HP Ice (power 59)
IVs: 31/30/30/29/31/31
Some of you may be thinking 'bitch, please!' at the first impressions of this set, but on paper, it looks promising (haven't been able to test yet):
HP Ice vs standard Gliscor: 91.5% - 108.5%
HP Ice vs CB Flygon: 102.3% - 120.9% (dead)
HP Ice vs Offensive Salamence: 93.1% - 110% (dead)
HP Ice vs Jolly Chomp: 81.8% - 97.5% (almost dead)
That's a surprising amount of power, wouldn't you agree? Breloom's base 60 Special Attack may be paltry, but Technician makes it wonderfully useable. The Speed EVs allow Breloom to outrun any Gliscor after using Low Sweep, which is its means of getting the definite kill (21.2% - 24.9% damage), and the rest is thrown into Attack, for obvious reasons.
Spore's mainly there to keep up appearances, as eyebrows will immediately raised when a Breloom doesn't use Spore.
A few other calcs, while we're here:
Full power Bullet Seed vs Timid Gengar: 124.1% - 146.4%
vs Calm Mind Latias: 71.7% - 84.5% (...not bad at all)
Low Sweep vs 252/252 Blissey: 105.9% - 124.6%
So, uhh... thoughts?
Why not Power 60 ? You still lose a lot of speed ...
I dunno if you noticed, but there is a very similar set posted with RestTalk for Sleep PsychoShift.
Cresselia @ Flame Orb
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA (Needs optimized)
~Psychic
~Moonlight
~PsychoShift
~Calm Mind
Anyway, I would be willing to try this out, even though I believe Sigilyph does it better. The only edge here, I think, is bulk, which Sigilyph increases itself. Furthermore, there is the speed that you have to factor, and Sigilyph has roost + Doesnt take damage from Burn, making Sigilyph an ultimately better choice. However, in Ou rock types and fighting types are prevalent, so maybe typing is better.
I still think you should stick to Sigilyph. If there is something I missed, feel free to throw a Torment my way.
I dont know if this is legit. But i have played with it a couple times and always seems to work well
Breloom @ toxic orb
Poison Heal / Impish
252 hp / 252 Def
Drain Punch
Substitute
Spore
Leech seed
It's super annoying, and even if you counter it with a ghost, chances are you either have a substitue up or you used spore or leech seed, which usually force a switch. Anyways, im not sure if its being used already or if this set totally sucks, but it works for me so here it is
Breloom @ toxic orb
Poison Heal / Impish
252 hp / 252 Def
Drain Punch
Substitute
Spore
Leech seed
It's super annoying, and even if you counter it with a ghost, chances are you either have a substitue up or you used spore or leech seed, which usually force a switch. Anyways, im not sure if its being used already or if this set totally sucks, but it works for me so here it is
Do you know that 31-30-30-31-31-31 is still hp ice and has a power of 70?
Yup. But power 70 doesn't get a Technician boost.
Oh well i guess I didn't get the point ^^
So I've just gotten' into singles, but I've played VGC format for 4 years and here are a couple of my pokes I use for VGC. I brought them to my OU matches and they did really well:
Donphan- Sturdy
Careful @ Sitrus Berry/ Leftovers
180 HP/ 72Def/ 252 Sp.Def
Earthquake
Ice Shard
Seed Bomb/ Toxic
Rapid Spin/ Stealth Rock/ Protect
As long as no water moves are in the rain and/or specs/ banded, this set will pretty much be able to take whatever move you want it too. Its more of a bulkie offencive set. EQ for STAB and Ice Shard for priority. Seed Bomb is for the water types or you could use toxic if you want to stall them. Also, Gastrodon w/o Rindo Berry will always be a 2HKO. The last slot is use for Spin support or SR. Protect I would only really advise for those wanting to use a toxic stall set.
Cresselia-Levitate
Bold@ Leftovers
252HP/ 252Def/ 4Sp.Atk
Sub.
Calm Mind
Thunder Wave/ Icey Wind
Psyshock
This set... Once she starts its almost over. I would almost be able to sweep off whole teams w/ this set. Any ways, the idea is pretty simple, get behind a sub and set-up. T-Wave is for if u want a chance of them not attacking/ slowing down. This makes it easier for set ups and Icey Wind is used for slowing down and things like Hydreigon who arent affected by Psyshock. And Physhock is for main STAB. The reason behinde Psyshock is pokes like Blissey who can come in thinking they're A-OK to set up. Its a bit of a shocker when they see Psyshock.
Donphan- Sturdy
Careful @ Sitrus Berry/ Leftovers
180 HP/ 72Def/ 252 Sp.Def
Earthquake
Ice Shard
Seed Bomb/ Toxic
Rapid Spin/ Stealth Rock/ Protect
As long as no water moves are in the rain and/or specs/ banded, this set will pretty much be able to take whatever move you want it too. Its more of a bulkie offencive set. EQ for STAB and Ice Shard for priority. Seed Bomb is for the water types or you could use toxic if you want to stall them. Also, Gastrodon w/o Rindo Berry will always be a 2HKO. The last slot is use for Spin support or SR. Protect I would only really advise for those wanting to use a toxic stall set.
Cresselia-Levitate
Bold@ Leftovers
252HP/ 252Def/ 4Sp.Atk
Sub.
Calm Mind
Thunder Wave/ Icey Wind
Psyshock
This set... Once she starts its almost over. I would almost be able to sweep off whole teams w/ this set. Any ways, the idea is pretty simple, get behind a sub and set-up. T-Wave is for if u want a chance of them not attacking/ slowing down. This makes it easier for set ups and Icey Wind is used for slowing down and things like Hydreigon who arent affected by Psyshock. And Physhock is for main STAB. The reason behinde Psyshock is pokes like Blissey who can come in thinking they're A-OK to set up. Its a bit of a shocker when they see Psyshock.
- Status