1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by sax king, Jan 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,742
    ...hmm. You make some valid points, I hadn't thought of that before. As far as Counter's usefulness goes, opportunities to properly use it are few and far between I admit, but the value of having it when it's needed is definitely appreciated. I also try to avoid letting my Forry take HP Fires or Flamethrowers or the like as much as I can so that Forry has more time to set up and whatnot. As I said, it's not so much for countering Outrages as it is for anticipating setup sweepers like Conkeldurr (who admittedly isn't used as much anymore) and taking them out of the picture a la Explosion without actually killing Forry. Sturdy Counter is well worth having IMO.

    Volt Switch AND Counter is an interesting idea, though... I hadn't considered getting rid of Gyro Ball, though now that I think about it, it doesn't tend to do me too many favors, hmm... Sow what about this?

    Forretress @ Lefties
    Careful/Impish Nature, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Counter

    I might try that set out, see how it does.
  2. kitsteel

    kitsteel

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Messages:
    52
  3. Dazed

    Dazed

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    26
    lead Honchkrow? maybe

    i believe evs and held item is very flexible with this set but this how mine is setup

    200 att / 58 sp att / 252 speed
    Mild / life orb / moxie

    Sucker Punch
    Brave bird
    Hp fire/roost/ superpower
    Mirror Move
    mirror move is what people aren't expecting, which is why lead with it, theres really no good reason to taunt a honchckrow since majority are choiced, as i mentioned the set is very flexible, you can give an expert belt to bluff the scarf, superluck if you want to raise your chances for the crit and opens the option of superpower which you would obviously switch to max att adamant.
  4. Tendie

    Tendie

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    63
    What does mirror move accomplish specifically? Is it supposed to get you a set-up move or something?


    My addition is the following:

    Linoone @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Gluttony (for the odd berry)
    Jolly Nature, 252 Att / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    - Switcheroo/Trick (Your choice in aesthetics!)
    - Belly Drum
    - Extreme Speed
    - Dig/Seed Bomb/Shadow Claw

    This cute little fella does wonders for me. Switch an enemy on a boosting move shutting them down, and as they switch Belly Drum and begin pounding your opponent. Dig can stall for time to get back up to full health in the (pretty damn common) event that you get leftovers in the switch and deals with some pesky steel types, and Seed Bomb/ Shadow Claw can be used to tailor to your specific needs on the team.

    This set works in unbelievably great tandem with Magnezone, nabbing the practically inevitable steel types before they can flee the scene. Not only does this have sweeping potential, but it also is a respectable revenge killer later on, assuming it survives. Obviously there
  5. Dazed

    Dazed

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    26
    pretty much and setup your own hazards with mirror move, it takes prediction but i believe it pays off, snagging a nasty plot from azelf or a rapid spin from a blastoise is helpful
  6. LockDown

    LockDown

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    673
    Stealth Rock isn't copyable by mirror move. In fact, status moves in general are not copied by mirror move; it is for copying attacking moves. Snatch is more like what you're thinking, but that is incompatible with moxie and still doesn't apply to hazards.
  7. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012 Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,439
    Reuniclus @ Life OrbTrait: Magic Guard
    Quiet Nature, 252 SpA /160 HP /96 Def
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic/Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    I think this is a better use of reuniclus's EV's. The strategydex currently recommends 192 HP EV's and 64 Def EV's with this set. This puts you at 409 HP if my math is correct. The HP EV's for this EV spread will put you at 401 HP (if my math is correct), which lets you survive 5 seismic tosses from the pink blobs.
  8. hichez

    hichez

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    97
    Choice Scarf seems kinda redundant on this set. Linoone already out speeds most pokemon in its tier.
  9. papita

    papita

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    The point of the scarf isn't the added speed. It's to trick it, locking the opponent into a harmless move giving you the chance to set up
  10. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,399
    I'm pretty sure that they can switch moves, meaning that they would most likely just attack and kill you. But i forget how trick mechanic work this gen.
  11. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,140
    They can't actually switch moves; the bigger problem is that they will probably already be attacking to hit Linoone at the same time as you use Trick, and there is no way Linoone is taking two hits without dropping below 50%.
    (So, Sitrus Berry?) never mind i'm an idiot
  12. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,780
    They don't get to switch moves if you move first with Trick. I'd imagine that CB is better on that set, since a CB STAB ExtremeSpeed is almost as powerful as Scizor's Bullet Punch; not bad for revenge killing.

    Still, that set is extremely gimmicky and I find it very difficult to believe that it works at all.
  13. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,361
    What's the critical importance of surviving those 5 Seismic Tosses if Chansey/Blissey is going to force you out anyway?


    [​IMG]
    Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Slack Off

    To my surprise, Infernape movepool contains Slack Off, I guess its something that pales to his great coverage. Anyway I wanted a Flare Blitzer with more durability and this is it. Neutrality to Stealth Rock+Slack Off keeps Infernape around a lot longer than most Fire types. Slack Off can be hard to pull off sometimes, but when you do its awesome, just send it in on something that Infernape can easily force out (like Scizor). An interesting combo is to bring yourself in and out of Blaze which can be handy if you need a power boost. Stone Edge is mostly filler, but you can use stuff like U-turn and Thunderpunch. I'm curious a mixed set could be pulled off with this with Fire Blast>Flare Blitz, but having Slack Off in there breaks the mixed-attacking potential.
  14. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,048
    [​IMG]
    Glalie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Ice Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Spikes
    - Blizzard / Taunt

    Obviously this set is meant to be used with hail support. With hail, this set recovers 12.5% every turn, meaning that it can use Substitute and Protect continously similar to what Stallrein did. Then, it can outstall every opponent (with Toxic Spikes support, which you'll really want to use) that isn't immune to hail and Toxic Spikes, or immune to Toxic Spikes and carries Leftovers. In such a case, you can set up Spikes, which is the main reason to use it over Wallrein along with its cool Speed. In the last slot, Blizzard provides a decent attacking option, but Taunt also works as it stops things from using Recover or Rest which gives you an easier time stalling.
  15. ShortsTheory

    ShortsTheory

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    120
    I don't want to be too critical of this set, but Infernape is going to be so low on health after a SE Flare Blitz + LO, that almost any neutral attack will kill it. Infernape's going to be too frail after a Close Combat to take a hit and then Slack Off. All that this set is doing is getting you an extra Flare Blitz when your opponent switches, something which is better done by Wish passers anyway. Perhaps you could try Leftovers to give the ape a bit more HP, and to work in tandem with Slack Off. Infernape's not going to be hitting Gliscor with this set, so maybe you should include a good boosting move like NP/SD. Fire Blast is a good idea for this set's vitality, but again, that renders Slack Off unnecessary, when you can use a coverage move instead.
  16. Dangerous

    Dangerous

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    911
    Not only is this like running Alakazam with Recover (too frail!), but as you mentioned, you're crippling yourself by either reducing your type coverage or losing out on offensive momentum because of the lack of U-turn.

    Also; if you opt to go mixed by replacing Flare Blitz with Fire Blast, don't you technically solve your problem with recoil that way anyway?
  17. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Solid Rock | Adamant
    12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spd
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch / Megahorn​

    First of all, Rhyperior looks completely outclassed by Terrakion, which sports better Speed and overall utility on a team, especially if Sandstorm. Rhyperior, through its huge 140 base Attack, solid Defence, 115 HP, and a STAB EdgeQuake, can put the hurt on any team with ease. A single Rock Polish lets him hit 354, higher than any non-scarf base 111 (including Latios, Gengar, Tornadus and others). Its moves cover almost any pokemon running on OU. The EdgeQuake hits (at the very least neutrally) everything but Virizion and the very rare Breloom, and Gliscor has enough bulk to survive a Stone Edge. Ice Punch is for both - instant OHKO on all them. Megahorn is an option is your team is very weak to sweepers such as CMReuniclus or NPCelebi, as Rhyperior can't kill in one hit. Even the bulkiest dragon get screwed by Ice Punch: 252/252+ Dragonite dies at Ice Punch after Stealth Rock. The item is: Babiri Berry. It looks crap, but it's very useful. A standard Scizor (252 HP 0 Def) takes 56% - 65% from Earthquake, and, in reverse, Choice Band Bullet Punch does only 30% factoring Solid Rock and the berry. It's also very handy for Flash Cannon (Magnezone) and Gyro Ball (Ferrothorn)

    TL;DR
    hits hard, great bulk, great movepool, fast after rock polish
  18. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,249
    Honestly, I'd much rather use LO Autotomize Aggron. Despite the lower Attack stat, Aggron's Head Smash has much more power than Rhyperior's Stone Edge (Against max/max Impish Skarmory, 53.3% - 62.9% for Aggron's Head Smash versus 32.3% - 38.3% for Rhy's Stone Edge with the berry and 41.9% - 49.7% with Life Orb) and much higher Speed. It also has stellar Defense and isn't weak to Bullet Punch. Sadly, it has more Scarf Terrakion issues, but Terrakion can't exactly switch in, as Head Smash does a minimum of 51% and Earthquake is almost always a KO with Rocks.
  19. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    Aggron can't take Earthquakes, anyway, even if it could be a better set up sweeper, Rhyperior is nonetheless a huge phisical threat with its high overall stats and great coverage
  20. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,361
    I never expected Infernape to tank a hit. Even if it you intended for Infernape to tank a hit, Infernape outspeeds 90% of the tier so he will pretty much always get the Slack Off before any attack hits him anyway (aka high health). BTW, how the hell do Wish Passers do this better? You just said Infernape was so frail after LO+Flare Blitz recoil that it is "2HKO'ed by any neutral hit" how the hell do you expect to switch him in to receive that Wish? Lefties is terrible because you would be too weak to hit anything hard.

    I think if you wanted a parallel to this set it would be LO Starmie with Recover. Recover has been the standard on Starmie for a long time to make sure it just doesn't get off 2 attacks and just die. With Infernape's great coverage, it is easy to bluff and force a switch. That's not even the most common way you pull off Slack Off, just put Infernape out on something that is weak to its STAB's and proceed the Slack Off on the forced switch. Slack Off has a great surprise factor so it is easy to pull it off since most Infernape run just attacks. Flare Blitz recoil+SR weakness really hampers the survivability of Flare Blitzers (I'm looking at you Darmanitan. This set aims to fix that.
  21. Dangerous

    Dangerous

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    911
    So your plan is to force a switch and Slack Off as they bring in something that'll force you back out, essentially giving them the advantage? U-turn is a much more viable option in this scenario, allowing you to see what they switch into as you U-turn out yourself - allowing you to bring in a counter/check.
  22. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    661
    Here is a move set that could potentially be used for NU.

    Skuntank @ Leftovers/Expert Belt
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 236 HP/16 Atk/188 SpA/64 Spe
    Nature: Serious
    Moves: Iron Tail/Pursuit/HP Ice
    Hone Claws/Pursuit
    Acid Spray
    Fire Blast/Night Slash/Pursuit

    This is intended to be an oddball mixed set for Skuntank. Hone Claws raises your attack and accuracy, which is particularly important to run if you use Iron Tail. Iron Tail is useful for some unexpected coverage and a chance to cut the target's defense. You could also lower SpD with Acid Spray, catch fleeing opponents with Pursuit, or get other coverage with Night Slash, Fire Blast, or HP Ice.
    Generally sets that use more high-power moves should include Expert Belt, or if you have a Wish passer. Otherwise use Leftovers.
  23. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    661
    For Bruno Magno's set:

    You definitely took advantage of Rhyperior's advantages over Terakkion: much better HP and Attack which help to set up, then use a STAB or coverage move of choice depending on your opponent. I also like your choice of held item. With your calc, Scizor Bullet Punch is a 3HKO, giving you enough time to defeat it with Earthquake.
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,369
    If you want to continue hitting stuff with Infernape why not? You know many other pokes use recovery moves, while giving to the opponent a free turn, but they do it regardless, because they want their pokes to last longer.

    I dont know if Slack Off is worth it on Infernape or not, since i haven't used it, but i don't see anything wrong behind the logic of using a recovery move on an offensive mon...
  25. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    I don't really see it working to be honest. If you do manage to force that switch (and its a big if; U-turn on Infernape is so common that the risk of something like Skarmory Brave Birding you is pretty big), you give away momentum in return for using Infernape's Flare Blitz maybe one more time. Presumably you're using Infernape on a mostly offensive team? Generally you have to take the chances that you're given; healing up Infernape is no guarantee that it will get another chance to do substantial damage, and at the same time sacrifices coverage and momentum.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)