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Creative sets in the BH metagame. BAD GIMMICKS ARE NOT PERMITTED.

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Adrian Marin, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Deoxymoron

    Deoxymoron

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    Probably. I like Rock Head as it gives Archeops longevity, but I'll consider it.

    EDIT: I mixed up Magic Guard with Magic Bounce. I'll switch it right away.

    You forget many important details.

    1. The opponent will not expect Water Absorb, and will almost always use it first.
    2. I often use Rhydon as a switch-in, meaning if they have specs and don't see it coming, they get locked into Water Spout very easily.
    3. You have totally ignored the SpA drop.
    -2 252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 117-138 (28.26 - 33.33%)
    66.18% + 33.33% = 99.5%
    In other words, it always avoids a 2HKO without Stealth Rock.
    4. Most importantly, Rhydon has Mirror Coat. This allows it to take a Draco Meteor and OHKO Palkia in return, and win the weather war, maybe even pulling off a recover.

    Maybe I exaggerated when I said it's the BEST counter in the game, but it sure doesn't have problems with Palkia.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  2. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Even though it survives, it's still a shaky counter if it has below max hp
  3. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast have one on me
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    Why not use Dry Skin if your main priority is beating Drizzle Palkia? You get a little healing under Rain every turn, keep the Water immunity, and you resist Fire anyway.
  4. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General BOO mothafucka!
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    How does Rock Head give longevity where Magic Guard doesn't? They both block attack recoil but the latter blocks every other form of passive damage so it makes a good Toxic absorber plus it ignores Life Orb recoil.

    It's like running Victory Star instead of CompoundEyes or No Guard.
  5. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Dry Skin is extremely risky when used on a team without weather. Good Dry Skin users include almost any Steel type that resists Dragon with a Mail (blocking trick allows you to wall choiced variants.) Try to let it do other things besides wall Palkia. Registeel can support its teammates by spreading Toxic, Phazing, and gaining momentum with U-turn. Dry Skin Mail Blissey is a special mention since it walls Draco Meteor and can Wish pass to teammates. Many Palkia's now run Secret Sword, so it might be harder to do. A decent and reliable Palkia counter is Regenerator Kyogre. With its massive special bulk, it only takes up to 60 percent if I recall, and it heals most of its HP by switching. What makes Kyogre different is that it can go on the offensive.
  6. asterat

    asterat

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    [​IMG] (M) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Searing Shot
    - Volt Switch
    - Rapid Spin


    I know Adrian posted regenerator Latios as a creative set already, but most good players use regenerator latios over any other latios. This set is all about rapid spin. The only spinblockers ever seen on BH teams piloted by knowledgeable players are giratina, shedinja, gengar, arceus-ghost, jellicent, and spiritomb. Giratina is by far the most common and runs away from draco meteor into something which isn't a ghost type (use rapid spin easiest prediction ever). Shedinja is really easy to get around, and switch in whatever you use to get rid of it to get rid of it. Alternatively, use sand stream ferrothorn/rhydon//dialga so it just dies in one turn. Gengar will try to win the speed tie and skill swap/spore. Or he might try to switch out. Volt Switch is the safe option either way because it does a lot to gengar with soul dew. Also you have nothing to worry about because your opponent is stupid enough to use skill swap gengar. Jellicent will run away and spiritomb will do the same. I guess arceus ghost could spinblock it, but its pretty rare. I never find psystrike very useful and prefer to volt switch and force whatever comes in out or use it to rapid spin. I really like volt switch because it pairs excellently with regenerator. Volt switch also chips at kyogre and lugia, taking pretty sizable chunks out of their health. In addition it gets you out of situations with trapping heatran, shuckle, etc. Searing shot can burn shit and never misses. Blue flare is an alternative.
    BLOOD TOTEM likes this.
  7. MJB

    MJB Sup Peeps
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    I've seen a similar theory with rapid spin kyurem-b and afaik that worked well, I see no reason why this wouldn't either, good set :)
  8. GBask

    GBask

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    This set can straight up 6-0 teams that don't have a dedicated unaware mon.

    Slaking/Regigigas/Meloetta-P @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Illusion
    Adamant/Jolly Nature
    -Belly Drum
    -Extreme Speed
    -Drain Punch
    -Crunch

    The basic idea is you copy Shedinja with Illusion, thereby discouraging any competent player from directly attacking you. Generally players switch to Giratina or another phaser when they see Shedinja, allowing you to get off a belly drum for free. The beauty of this set is that Imposter Bliss can't come in and steal your boost as long as Illusion is intact. I prefer to use this set as my lead to guarantee that SR doesn't ruin the illusion and because of the prevalence of first turn hazards and spores, which let you set up for free. The moves guarantee that everything in the game is OHKOd after a belly drum. Only things like Gengar and Ghostceus threaten Slaking and Gigas after set up, which is why Meloetta-P can be used as a faster alternative that can outspeed and KO these threats. Other than that, the only things standing in the way of a clean sweep are bulky Unaware mons and prankster Giratina spores after Lum is used up. I guess theoretically random scarfers that resist or are immune to Normal attacks like Giratina-O and Dialga could pose a threat but choice scarf is so rare in BH that they're not much of a concern.
  9. MJB

    MJB Sup Peeps
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    This isn't creative as has been around since forever. It's also fairly easy to deal with and somewhat obvious to experienced players, not to mention EVERYONE runs a counter to it (assuming they are good/experienced anyway), would not recommend.
  10. Vincent

    Vincent

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    Magnezone @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Judgment
    - Magic Coat/Substitute
    - Thunder

    For those who wants to counter Drizzle/Swift Swim Specs Palkia with something more offensive than Registeel. While it could had received Levitate as ability, i found that "wasting" an ability slot to do something any Flying Pokemon can do isn't THAT good, so Dry Skin give me things that no type or leftovers would give me. Thunder is basic STAB and more synergy with rain, Ice Beam is just coverage, and Earth Plate + Judgment is coverage AND Imposter-bait, making Magnezone resist all of its attacks coming from Imposters, while it kills back hitting on the 4x weak spot. Magic Coat and Substitute are your options against status, besides that just pointing out that Dry Skin is really good healing the health you lost with Substitute.
  11. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    That set is legit because it actually works really well against most Palkia's, the only big issue it has is against Choice Specs Palkia's using Trick, which makes it imposter bait, still, a Specs Thunder can probably hit some threats hard. Another issue is that many Palkia's are now using Aura Sphere or Secret Sword, Registeel can tank both well, but Magnezone is a very good idea because unlike most viable Dry Skin users that wall Palkia, it can go offensive. Heatran is still usually a better option, but Magnezone is definitely better for going offensive. I think that if Giratina is dealt with, Magnezone can really hurt the opposing team if they lack something else that can wall it.
  12. asterat

    asterat

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    I would question how necessary earth plate judgment is as you sacrifice both a moveslot and an item for imposters. Sure it has a bit of coverage for dialga and reshiram but it isn't enough to justify in my opinion. Espeically because you don't boost I wouldn't worry about imposters so much. This way the last slot is freed up for whatever you want, I would stay away from boosting moves because of imposter but you could run sub and magic coat if you want to fuck with giratinas or even run toxic because if its bounced back it doesn't do anything. For an item leftovers could give you even more health back each turn while mail could really fuck with pretty much all palkias. Last thing on electric types I really prefer dragon pulse to ice beam because of palkia, reshiram, kyurem-b, and kyurem-w. Overall the concept of dry skin magnezone is pretty cool I will probably try it out soon.
  13. Demon Lord Ghirahim

    Demon Lord Ghirahim

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    [​IMG]

    ChaosGeneral1337 (Mewtwo) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Blue Flare
    - Psystrike
    - Quiver Dance
    - Spore

    I am just posting this set here for the purpose of claiming credit as the one who invented it, as I am starting to see other people using it on the ladder, and do not wish to run the risk of other people claiming credit for my own invention. With the ability to spam Spore safely thanks to its Toxic Orb, great passive recovery in the form of Poison Heal, a blazingly high Speed of 394 which is always excellent for a Spore user, the ability to easily overcome Imposter abusers and Unaware walls thanks to Spore as well as its own immunity to such, an excellent set-up move in Quiver Dance, and Tyranitar being the only remotely commonly-seen Pokémon in the tier that resists both of it devastating attacks, this Mewtwo moveset is one of the inventions of mine I am personally most proud of, out of the countless unique and trademark Pokémon movesets I have invented across many different metagames throughout the long history of my Pokémon battling career, as beholding the very sight of the Classic God of Pokémon... the very monster Dr. Fuji intended to create as the world's strongest Pokémon reclaiming its former glory by singlehandedly sweeping the teams of many skilled battlers I have faced on the ladder was really an awe-inspiring experience for me. Stored Power can go over Psystrike I guess, though I personally prefer the superior firepower of Mewtwo's signature move when it has acquired less than two Quiver Dance boosts, as I find the ability to just send this Mewtwo out to finish off weakened Pokémon (especially if they are immune to Spore) to be exceedingly useful, and additionally, for a sweeper, being able to hit the opponent's Pokémon on both the physical and the special side is always nice.

    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
    Redless and Keep it Playful like this.
  14. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    Deoxys-S
    Timid
    Bad Dreams
    Expert Belt
    ~Spore
    ~Blue Flare/Searing Shot
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Psystrike

    Oh. My. God. This thing is the definition of annoying. I was just thinking of using one of these, I tested it out on a team, and it did major work. Spore+Bad Dreams is a really deadly combo and coupled with powerful attacks and Expert Belt equipped, this thing can really wear down teams. I've also caused a ragequit....
  15. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Sadly, that set is easily stopped by most Pokemon with Magic Coat, Status Orb users, and Magic Bounce, because of Deoxys-S's low attacking stats, it's not threatening any of them anyway.
  16. voidzone

    voidzone

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    Since I had my fun with it..i might as well contribute it

    [​IMG]
    Excadrill
    Move 1: Stealth Rock
    Move 2: Nature Power
    Move 3: Metal Burst
    Move 4: Destiny Bond
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Prankster
    Nature: Brave (+Att -Spd)
    0 Spd Evs & Ivs

    I'm always a big fan of sets that hold the opportunity to surprise while being some sort of straight forward to the least. Excadrill is the not so usual prankster nature power abuser, but it might shine in this department as well, STAB EQ from 135 Baseattack is in absolute usable regions imo. The real cool thing about this, is that most people that do not expect prankster, do not expect sash metal burst and/or do not expect dbond as well might easily lose 1 or even 2 mons on this. And even if the set is already known in consecutive games, it might have an easier time lay down rocks, force out dedicated sweepers that don't want to be bursted/dbonded or deal some good damage thanks to Nature Power. Steel typing doesn't hurt here either.
    I admit, this set relies a lot on the surprise factor, and can be really strong if that is given, but It isn't horrible without either.
  17. Keep it Playful

    Keep it Playful

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    Interesting set, I know I've seen a rise in the number of Excadrills in Balanced Hackmons. Surprise factor definately plays a role with this set, as the first time I fought against an Excadrill in the past few days I had no idea what set it was running. Sadly I feel once the surprise factor is gone, this set won't hold up to other stronger NP users such as Lando-T, Groudon and Marowak.

    Here's a calc of NP against one of the most common defenses against Earthquakes:

    252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Giratina: 129-153 (25.59 - 30.35%) -- possible 4HKO

    Even in Sand and even if Giratina switched in, it could most likely recover off the Earthquakes and fight back with something when it has adequate HP. In addition, if it is a Magic Bounce Giratina, the Stealth Rock won't be able to be used. Another common switch in, Lugia, won't even be touched by this set and will most likely be able to phaze it out with Whirlwind or Dragon Tail.

    Metal Burst with the Focus Sash is combination that will rarely work, especially due to the high chance of hazards being on your side of the field when you switch in (unless this is your lead). Smogon states that: "The damage is equal to 1.5x the HP lost by the user from that attack."

    Which I'm pretty sure doesn't mean it gets STAB, which doesn't utilize Excadrill's Steel typing for offense. Defensivewise, it has some resistances but will quickly perish to other Nature Power users.

    Prankster Destiny Bond is very good, but I feel it requires too much exact prediction on this set because it has no Substitue to stop Spore.

    I believe that replacing Metal Burst with Substitute and replacing Focus Sash with Leftovers would make this set considerably more effective.
  18. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    That is true, but usually people only have like one Magic Bounce user from my experience. It also has a decent surprise factor, but I guess it does get walled. Then again, you do have five other Pokemon, but you bring up a good point.
  19. LightningLord2

    LightningLord2

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    Something I've tested to be more effective than it looks:
    [​IMG]
    Weavile @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Jolly
    -Rapid Spin
    -Crunch
    -Pursuit
    -Ice Shard / Taunt / Magic Coat / Icicle Crash

    A spinner that also pursuit traps - given how many Psychics and Ghosts run around, that's a nice boon for Weavile. Absol is too slow, Darkrai has mediocre physical attack and Arceus-Dark must forfeit the item and ability. Rapid Spin is Rapid Spin, Crunch-Pursuit is for STAB and mind games while the last slot is basically a filler to suit what your team needs. Thanks to Magic Guard, it can switch into hazards, take a hit with Focus Sash and spin.
  20. asterat

    asterat

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    It will have to be a lot better than it looks. Giratina can easily take hits from that weavile. Things like bounce dialga and scrappy meloetta-p are just better.
  21. Keep it Playful

    Keep it Playful

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    [​IMG]
    Marowak
    Move 1: Nature Power
    Move 2: Substitute
    Move 3: Bolt Strike/Icicle Crash
    Move 4: Recover
    Item: Thick Club
    Ability: Prankster
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, - SAtk)

    The main sweeper on one of my teams, this Marowak set is similar to the well known Prankster Groudon set with a few differences that make it unique. For one, Marowak has a considerably higher attack stat than Groudon, thanks to his signature item: Thick Club. Base 150 Attack for Groudon and nearly base 210 Attack for Marowak! This is equivalent to running Groudon with a Life Orb.

    The difference in power is significant enough to do things like 2 HKO Adrian's Prankster Ferrothorn (which Marowak outspeeds), while Groudon can only shoot for the 3 HKO. Another Pokemon that Marowak can dent is Magic Bounce Giratina. Groudon tries to use Nature Power against it but comes up short:

    252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Giratina: 139-165 (27.57 - 32.73%) -- possible 4HKO

    Even Critical Hits won't (usually) help Groudon here, as Giratina should be able to restore any damage dealt easily. Marowak on the other hand, inflicts heavier damage and works especially well if one can be fired off as Giratina switches in to take the attack:

    252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Giratina: 180-213 (35.71 - 42.26%) -- 91.85% chance to 3HKO

    Assuming a NP on switch in, Marowak can then keep up the offensive pressure, forcing Giratina to spam Recover. In the event of a Critical hit here, it will almost surely mean a KO on Giratina. An alternative is Icicle Crash, which can inflict more damage and possibly cause a flinch if Marowak outspeed (Base 45 gl), but the Priority isn't there.

    252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Giratina: 204-242 (40.47 - 48.01%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    The damage isn't that different between the moves, which is why I favor Nature Power. Icicle Crash is very useful, however, against one Pokemon that stops this set with Bolt Strike: Landorus. As expected this is an easy OHKO and even if Marowak isn't behind a Sub, it's impressive 110 Base bulk has a chance to survive an Earthquake even at +2 Atk from Landorus-T.

    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Marowak: 288-339 (88.88 - 104.62%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

    This leads me in to the alternative, the more useful against Lugia and Ho-oH Bolt Strike. We've all tried to take down Lugia with Bolt Strike from Groudon, but watched as it easily recovered the HP back with Roost and gained that Normal resistance for one turn. Well with Marowak, Bolt Strike is different, especially if Lugia just switched in at full HP with Stealth Rock up:

    252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Lugia: 294-348 (70.67 - 83.65%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Lastly I want to add that Marowak acts acts as an Anti-Imposter to some extent, due to his drastic drop in Attack without his Thick Club. Let's face it, 284 Atk doesn't do anything in Balanced Hackmons. One downside to Marowak over Groudon, it's very dangerous to switch into anything as Marowak can't take Special Attacks. U-turn-ing in, Baton Passing behind a Sub, or Revenging are the best ways to get Marowak onto the playing field. Hope this set works for you!
    Adrian Marin likes this.
  22. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General BOO mothafucka!
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    [​IMG]
    Poison Heal @ Toxic Orb
    -Belly Drum
    -Façade
    -Crunch/EQ
    -ExtremeSpeed/Spore/Dragon Tail
    I've started using this set to good effect lately and within a few turns Poison Heal recovery will have you back to full health. I can usually get a BD on a switch as people switch to their Regi counter and at +6 even resisted Façades are gonna hurt and it still does a fair amount to most Unawaremons. EQ can handle Steel and Rock (bar Skarmory) and Crunch for ghosties. The rest is up to your preference.
    [​IMG]
    Insomnia @ Spooky Plate
    -Quiver Dance
    -Spore
    -Judgment
    -Aura Sphere
    Most people expect this to be Normalize or Prankster and a Spore on the switch cannot come back to bite you if they bring in Magic Bounce. The combination of attacks keeps Imposter from doing anything to you.
    [​IMG]
    Contrary @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
    -Shell Smash
    -Draco Meteor
    -Heart Swap
    -Recover/filler/Sub
    A fun set. Not sure how effective it is yet, though. Shell Smash gives you a Cosmic Power boost until you Heart Swap the -2/-2/-2 Attack/Special Attack/Speed away to cripple something. Draco is Draco and obviously works better if you don't use Shell Smash first. Heart Swap can steal boosts, too, if needed.
    This set also laughs off Simple Beam shenanigans.
  23. BLOOD TOTEM

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    [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Encore
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Destiny Bond

    The goal of this set is simple, stop set up. Encore locks targets into moves that either don't affect Gengar or stop them from using attacking moves if timed correctly. Often it is simple to predict a switch into a substitute or set up move and then render the target useless with encore. From this point you can try to pass a sub or simply use Baton Pass and switch into something that handles the threat they switch into. Destiny Bond stops sweepers that you let get too far. It's worth noting that you should sub before using destiny bond as the opponent may be carrying Spore and if you can encore lock the target into Spore you can put yourself into a favorable position.

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/balancedhackmons-53665733
    Here's a replay of it doing it's thing and saving me from a game I thought I had lost.
  24. asterat

    asterat

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    This actually looks pretty cool, I might try it out. A few changes could make it much better though. Secret sword is almost always better than aura sphere. Aura sphere never misses, but the only real thing with sand veil is Giratina. Additionally I would probably use shell smash or tail glow over quiver dance because Gengar isn't taking hits anytime soon. Natural speed means that sometimes tail glow is all you need. The last thing is that other pokemon could use this set and possibly be more effective. You need ghost typing to keep the strong judgment, but past that the options are wide. Giratina-O would be a solid ghost. He would use quiver dance more effectively with the lower speed and excellent bulk. Also nobody knows what to do when they see a Giratina-O.
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  25. Parzival

    Parzival

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