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Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Tobes, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. TheWaddleDeeKing


    Oct 7, 2012
    Imposter is what makes it different - it allows Ditto to immediately transform upon switch in. So, if for the sake of argument, your opponent had a +2 Atk +1 Spd MoxieMence, you could send Ditto in as a revenge killer, copy the stat boosts, and proceed to use Outrage and ruin the rest of the opponents team. Now, obviously, this is an extreme example, but this is really what Ditto can do. This probably wouldn't happen in a real match, as if the opponent sees Ditto he probably won't boost, but you could still steal his Outrage or something.
  2. UltiMario


    Aug 11, 2009
    Except whenever Ditto is used its ALWAYS impostor Ditto.

    That's it's standard set, basically.
    Wumbo in Chains likes this.
  3. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Mar 6, 2009
    Then they're probably putting Ditto here for the "underrated" part of the thread title. Before its release, it was hailed as being the greatest theorymon revenge killer the game has ever created, possibly ban worthy even. Now it's out, unleashing its fury in the NU metagame. If anything screams underrated, that does to me.

    I will say this, though: Ditto is extremely hard to use effectively on the teams I've put it on. Yes, it's great utility and hilarious to use something completely against someone (looking at you in your final OU moments, Tornadus-T (yes, it is Uber to those wondering; the vote has taken place and 70% of the 78/82 people to vote think so)), but fitting a random wild card slot onto a team is near impossible. Unless you feel you've covered everything in 5 slots, Ditto seems hard to justify throwing on to me. Awesome, and it shines very often, but underused and underrated. Hence its mentioning here.
  4. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Now it ends.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

    May 3, 2012

    Deoxys @ Fire Gem Lv. 100
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psycho Boost
    - Stealth Rock
    I haven’t really this set being used much so I’m presenting it. Deoxys-D is the best choice to set up hazards. Most sets you'll run into will just get hazards and the die. With this set you outspeed CB Scizor and get off an HP Fire to OHKO. With the Special Attack investment you are also able to OHKO physically defensive Forretress and deal 65.9 - 78.4% to standard Ferrothorn. Psycho Boost also gives you a STAB to hit Tentacruel for Super Effective damage dealing 71.42 - 84.61% to 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel. The EV spread allows to out speed all Scizor barring a Scarf.

    I only have one replay saved for this set. I'll get more and post them here.

  5. Schpoonman

    Schpoonman formerly Lord of Bays

    Oct 3, 2010
    You don't need run ANY speed to outspeed most Scizor. Most Choice Band sets run only 8 Speed EVs with a handful of Sword Dance sets running 252 EVs with an Adamant nature, or even less if they're SpDef.
  6. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Jun 25, 2011
    jolly scizor hits 241, but DeoD should outsped that with minimal investment. he prob needs speed for 264 tenta
  7. lacerta

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 19, 2010
    HP Fire Deo-D is very unappreciated. Forry is my Spinner Of Choice, so whenever I come across a Deo-D lead, I am always afraid to try spinning on it in case it's that set.

    However, I feel that this spread and set achieves only one of its goals: KOing scizor. Forretress can't be OHKOd, so it's not worth trying. Tentacruel in rain (an early-game possibility should your opponent lead with Toed then switch) can easily avoid a 2HKO using Protect, then hang around and spin whilst healing more damage than you can do after Special Attack drops. Have you tried Modest with Life Orb to remedy these issues? Max Spe Timid is used to tie with other Deo-D and Taunt things. Since you can't run Taunt and are beaten by other Deo-D, I think this is a change you can afford to make.

    With Modest and LO, the OHKO on Scizor and 2HKO on Forretress (after Sturdy) are still guaranteed. However, it now nabs a vital OHKO on 252/0 Tentacruel and also allows you to cleanly 2HKO the fourth spinner in OU, Donphan, whereas Timid Fire Gem frustratingly misses this. You could go 4/252/252 with these changes, but if you're obsessed with specialised EVs like I am, you may want to change it to 200 Spd / 232 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 SDef -- reaching an optimum LO number, enough SpA to always OHKO Tenta, and enough Spe to outrun Jolly Breloom and 20 Speed Timid Tentacruel
  8. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Now it ends.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

    May 3, 2012
    Thats exactly why. I wrote this up late last night so I might have forget a few things. But yes, it's too out speed non-offensive Tentacruel and severely cripple it with a Psycho Boost.

    I havent tried running LO on Deoxys yet. But I just ran damage calcs and you can OHKO Physically Defensive Forretress (252 SpA Fire Gem Deoxys-D Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Forretress: 408-484 (115.25 - 136.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO) and deals 84%-100% to Specially defensive Forretress (252 SpA Fire Gem Deoxys-D Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 300-356 (84.74 - 100.56%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO) with the EVs I gave earlier. These calcs are without hazards damage, with hazards damage you can OHKO Forretress.
  9. Boondocker


    Nov 6, 2009
    @ Leftovers
    Careful nature
    252HP 252Spd 4Def
    ~Swagger/Confuse Ray

    I dont have alot of time so im not going to write alot, but the idea is to kill/cripple your opponent with the combination of burn and confusion damage. Confusion can buy you a free Sub in a desperate situation. Watch out for Espeon and Xatu.

    @Life Orb
    252Hp 252Att 4Spe
    Adamant nature
    ~Low Kick/Low Sweep
    ~Sucker Punch
    ~Wow/Hone Claws

    Not likely to be sweeping anytime soon, but can dish out a little bit of damage here and there. At the very least it will burn a thing or two so its never completely worthless. Its really a shame Focus Punch is illegal with Prankster, otherwise a set of Sub/Focus Punch/Sucker Punch/WoW would be nasty. The main reason to use this is to revenge things and to take advantage of Sableye's typing/ability to ward off physical attackers with the threat of a burn. Hone claws is for those who insist on sweeping, or if you just want to turn Espeon/Blissey and friends into setup bait.

    252Atk Life Orb Sableye (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 252HP/0Def Starmie (Neutral): 92% - 109%

    252Atk Life Orb Sableye (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 0HP/0Def Venusaur (Neutral): 50% - 59% (151 - 178 HP)

    252Atk Life Orb Sableye (+Atk) Low Kick vs 252HP/0Def Flash Fire Heatran (Neutral): 63% - 75%

    252Atk Life Orb Sableye (+Atk) Low Kick vs 0HP/0Def Kyurem Black (Neutral): 66% - 78% (260 - 306 HP)

    252Atk Life Orb Sableye (+Atk) Low Kick vs 0HP/0Def Terrakion (Neutral): 87% - 103% (282 - 334 HP)
  10. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Never did anything about Swagger
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Nov 29, 2008
    As for that last set, Prankster only makes non-damaging moves go first. So that Heatran calc? It outspeeds you and burns/poisons/kills you.
  11. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Mar 6, 2009
    While that's true, Arcticblast, in my experiences as an avid Sableye-user, unless there's a really good reason not to people almost always switch Heatran in on a Sableye thanks to its habit to throw Wisps around like nobody's business. The idea seems to be getting in safely (after a kill or VoltTurn whatever), predict their switch to Tran and Low Kick on it, maiming it rather badly. While I don't know how effective it would be overall, if you really need those threats dead and are a prediction god that LO Sableye has potential. I'm going to give it a whirl at least, but don't think I'll keep it because the utility of regular WoW/Recover/Taunt/Foul Play Sableye is too great for my current team as a whole. I really like that LO set. A lot. Since I'm on a Volcarona kick, they appear to be good partners in a sense that Sableye eliminates its counters with proper - and not hard to do in the case of Heatran - prediction.
  12. nygerman


    Sep 27, 2008
    Just because Ditto is NU doesn't make it useless. Ditto can be used in ubers and still rape ass. Ditto has it's role and you can't say Ditto is ineffective because you haven't used it effectively. The main issue with ditto is that it's unpredictable. Against some teams, it's useless and against others, it ruins their entire strategy. This unpredictabliliy makes it hard to incorporate Ditto on weather teams, but makes a good anti-meta team.
  13. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Mar 6, 2009
    I completely agree, nygerman! I was providing justification as to why it is underused by people, not calling it useless. Me saying that I have trouble using it was just a personal account of how odd a member it can be in a team (and I frequent Volcarona so my teams lots are cramped as is). Again, not saying it is ineffective; I'm saying it's definitely not used enough and providing theoretical justification for that.
  14. HabibsHotDogs


    Apr 21, 2009

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 HP / 100 Spd / 212 Def
    Naive Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Psychic

    Note that 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 Spd EV's give the same stats with a Lax Nature.

    I was surprised when the onsite analysis only had two types of Landorus-T, a fast type or a slow type. This is somewhere in between and I've found it to be the one that works best for me. 267 Speed allows it to outspeed all base 70 speed pokemon and a good chunk of neutral speed natured pokemon above the 70 speed tier such as heatran and dragonite. It's also not too slow to fall to a Magnezone HP ice from the sub charge set so it makes a great partner with Ferrothorn.

    The important speed to hit is 263 to outspeed all 70's but I noticed a lot of significant threats speed creep such as heatran that run 265 speed and rotom-w that do the same. 196 Hp ev's hits a leftovers number and the more important defense stat is buffered with whats left in order to maximise the effects of intimidate. HP ice 2hko's every physically attacking dragon in the tier whilst U-turn will surprise Latios/latias/Hydreigon trying to come in on an EQ. Balloon heatran that aren't heavily invested in speed with a positive nature will have their balloon's popped before they have the chance to OHKO. and unlike slower defensive Landorus, this Landorus can outspeed bulky Jirachi, giving it a chance to avoid paralysis before giving a KO. It a;so beats tentacruel 1 on 1, something the slower version can not boast as this will 2hko every tentacruel set with EQ. A faster U-Turn than most bulky Celebi is great, especially if they are using HP ice!

    U turn is mandatory and EQ is your best stab option, HP ice snipes dragons and the final slot depends on what your team needs most. SR is great if nothing else sets it up more reliably whilst Stone Edge prevents Volcarona and Gyarados going to town on your team. Psychic does the most damage to Breloom and importantly, 2hko's bulk up conkeldurr who otherwise threatens a sweep without critical hits. BU Conkeldurr is rare though so usually stone edge is the better option.

    In terms of walling potential it's hilarious checking dragon dancing dragons to cut down their attack and considering the only options to hit Landorus-T often are water attacks or outrages, it makes sense to pair it with a partner such as ferrothorn (watch out for opponents predicting your predict).

    I will have a lot of replays of this as it seems to be making a perfect fit to a lot of my teams at the moment, for now, here's a replay from my match in the draco spam tournament http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent7896410 . Seeing as my attempt to be reincluded has been ignored, I don't mind revealing my team.

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou8245631 If it wasn't for the speed, it couldn't have outspeed breloom.. Lucky for him that he went for mach punch not bullet seed, or he would have done no damage. U turn also helped me get out of an obvious Jirachi switch.
    Wumbo in Chains likes this.
  15. nygerman


    Sep 27, 2008
    There's really no difference between this and the analysis
  16. ssbbm


    May 14, 2010
    speed evs................

    and tbh if this does outspeed stuff like adamant dnite it probably is a better set overall unless losing the bulk makes you lose to some threats which i doubt it does!
  17. Tangelo


    Jul 5, 2011
    It doesn't matter what tier Ditto is; it's only as good as the shit it can copy.
  18. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

    Mar 26, 2011
    With my strategy applied he becomes an extremely effective: Late Game Cleaner, Special Bulky Paralysis Sweeper.

    Exeggutor (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Harvest
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Stun Spore

    the strategy:

    Exeggutor is an extremely dangerous Pokemon with a high 125 base Special Attack and a special movepool that can get the job done. Thanks to its Dream World ability, Harvest, Exeggutor can pull off an effective substunspore plus 2 attacks set that is notoriously hard to KO due to the fact that (in sun) sitrus berry will never stop being grown making it an incredibly odd but effective attacker. Exeggutor's reputation as a Sun Sweeper will force many switches which will also increase its viability and effectiveness.

    Stun spore will let Exeggcutor outspeed most pokemons which will allow him to exploit his ability to the maximum. First make sure the foe is paralyzed, Once he's paralyzed use Substitute until the foe switches or "paralyzed cant move" Once you get a free substitute murder the opposition with that 125 base special attack. Make sure you never lose your substitute and use this strategy against everybody preferably.

    Just put it this way, 1 switch in and the foes team can be completely destroyed. But if you want a more detailed explanation then I will tell everybody, It can spread paralysis to support your team, but the Exeggcutioner will probably 6-0 the foe anyway. Besides that there's not much else to tell.

    Good Teamates: Ninetales is mandatory to make sure sitrus berry recovers 100% of the time, Heatran can cover all of the eggs weaknesses. Terrakion is a good teamate as it can easily counter Tyranitar, Status healers in general are very very helpful to aid the Exeggcutioner as it will help him sweep.

    There are not many good teamates for the 3 eggs I tried my best to post all I could think of.

    Checks and Counters:

    Not many counter it but Tyranitar is a great counter because it changes the weather to Sandstorm and resists both psychoshock and HP fire while threatening the 3 eggs
    With STAB super effective crunch. Hydreigon and Houndoom are also both great counters as they resist,immune to the 3 eggs attacks and can both OHKO the 3 eggs, Latios and Latias counter it fairly easily but risk getting paralyzed, Cloyster is a huge problem with icicle spear, Gliscor can be very annoying for exeggcutor and can even set up against him.

    Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    This video showcases its effectiveness.. just skip to turn 13.


    Another video:



  19. Milos


    Jul 22, 2008
    to be fair, im not sure how effective that set would be against more skilled players. in your first replay 1) he switched in skarmory knowing you had hp fire, not to mention he 2) used SWORDS DANCE skarmory and 3), was using crunch on salamence...

    the other 2 replays you used your strategy well but you weren't exactly playing "quality" opponents..
  20. buddhism


    Aug 8, 2012


    Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Tailwind
    - U-turn

    Tornadus is a pretty underrated threat/team supporter in the OU metagame. Previously, Tornadus-T outclassed it in almost every way with the Regenerator ability and 121 base speed. However, now that Tornadus-T is out of the way, Tornadus has a better chance to shine. Hurricane and Focus Blast are main coverage moves while U-turn is used to gain momentum with its high 111 speed.

    Now, the crux of this set is Tailwind. Tailwind is the reason why I used Tornadus regularly in OU and in Ubers as a team supporter. Tailwind Tornadus works really well with a hard-hitting threat such as Kyurem-B. As you all may know, Kyurem-B is respected for its huge 170 base attack stat, which when paired with a Choice Band and an Adamant nature, reaches a whopping 723 attack stat. It can easily 2HKO or even OHKO many of the walls in the OU metagame. The unfortunate thing is its lackluster 95 base speed, bad typing and coverage. However, who cares about its typing and move coverage? Outrage and sometimes Fusion Bolt can destroy ANYTHING. You just have to endure a little painful 25% health on SR switch-in. This is where Tailwind comes in. Firstly, you switch Tornadus in and with the Prankster ability, it can get off a Tailwind most of the time. Sometimes, it can even get off a hit. Once you set up Tailwind, leave Tornadus as death fodder or U-turn if it is safe to the threat, which is in this case, Kyurem-B. With a maximum of 578 speed(Scarf Latios peaks at 525 speed), Kyurem-B can proceed to wreck anything.
  21. chuavechito


    May 28, 2012
    Bronzong @ Zoom Lens
    Relaxed (+Def -Spd)
    252 HP 252 Def 4 SDef
    0 Spd IVs
    - Hypnosis
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Grass Knot / Explosion / Stealth Rock

    Sleep is currently one of the most imbalanced things in OU and this build can abuse it. With Zoom Lens, Hypnosis goes from a suboptimal 60% to a Darkrai-ish 78%, which means, instead missing once every 3 games it fails once every 5 games.

    Why this over Breloom? Well, when you use Breloom you burn the 1st turn of Spore in to interrupt the attack (assuming you are faster). And then do stuff (such as, but not limited to make a Substitute, in case they decide to stay). Because of this, you waste some of sleep's power right. With a slow accurated improved Hypnosis you dont. They attack and then get sleeped, so if they want to stay and wait you basically get 1 more turn of sleep.

    Also, dont forget the gimmick factor. They may switch into a status absorber when you use Breloom but they wont do that against Bronzong, in fact, they will most likely send a set up sweeper, aka, Hypnosis food. AKA: Breloom could be played arround, but nobody will be able to outpredict this build.

    You really want EQ and Gyro Ball as they provide perfect coverage. SR is a good option if you dont have a SRer in your team already. Grass Knot hits Water (the only type that resist EQ + Gyro Ball) while HP Fire can take down Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor (specially outside Rain).

    To state the obvious, he does much better in or against Rain teams. Heat Proof becomes an option when you play outside Rain.
  22. Geodude6

    Geodude6 Look at my shiny CT!

    Oct 7, 2011
    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
    - Wish
    - Doom Desire/Future Sight
    - Protect
    - Thunder/Body Slam

    Jirachi is mostly used as a paraflincher. This set is partially created to play off of that assumption. Unfortunately, unlike previous generations, Doom Desire and Future Sight do not typeless damage but rather Steel-type and Psychic-type damage, respectively.

    This set can create the illusion of invincibility and is designed to play with the opponents mind. This Jirachi should use Doom Desire->Wish->Protect with the occasional Thunder or Body Slam. In one turn, you heal yourself, damage the opponent, and nullify their attack! This set can be quite infuriating to opponents, especially newbies.
    Wumbo in Chains likes this.
  23. Turnstoash


    Jun 28, 2011
    Lapras @ leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    - Rest
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    I don't know if this is quite the right thread, since it requires some heavy team support, but it's the closest I could find. This falls under the "underrated" category because of the difference in what most people would expect out Lapras in OU (failure) and how viable it actually is.

    Dat Bulk

    Hits like a wet noodle
    Weak to hazards
    Weak to common attacking types.
    Needs rain

    Looking at this list, it's easy to see how most people expect the cons to outweigh the pros. However, in my experience that has not been the case. It's just so ridiculously bulky on the physical side. (It's actually capable of being even more spec D bulky, but I find the meta-game favors a physically defensive spread) The generic playstyle is come in on a physical attacker, take it's hits for days. Rest when appropriate. Spam attacks. The effectiveness of this set lies in the first step. It completely walls so many things it's absurd. Dragons? Assuming a dragon dance on the switch, outrage does no more than 60% at which point you may either ice beam if they're in K.O. range, or simply rest until they get confused. Special Dragons are a little bit more of a pain but Draco meteor can be rested off in a pinch. Scizor? Banded Superpower isn't an OHKO (it's close though, so do not attempt unless at full health) I can't tell you how many times I simply stay in, rest and watch as each successive hit gets weaker and weaker until I can live comfortably enough to strike back. Gyrados? Worst case scenario (ignore major flinching from waterfall) you eat a plus 1 stone edge and respond with Thunder. Best case scenario they try to use bounce. I haven't run into a gliscor set yet that isn't hard countered. Basically, any physical attacker that can't muster up a super-effective attack, and a fairly strong one at that, is going to be walled. Even Terrakion needs banded, STAB close combat to OHKO. Other sets usually result in both lapras and Terrakion going down. A pretty fair trade if you ask me.
    Now, about those offenses. No envestment Lapras is as weak as you'd expect. Luckily, my favorite partner with lapras is volbeat. Volbeat not only encores things that want to set up on you, it can get +3 special attack baton passed pretty easily if you want to, at which point it's not surprising if lapras sweeps based on how hard it is to force out. It's hilarious how many times people who realize I'm going to be staying in for a while try to toxic me. Realistically though, most of the time you'll be going without boosts. Luckily, lapras still has ways of making it work. (Remember, if played correctly, Lapras shouldn't be dying. Feel free to 6 hit K.O. things. You have time.) First off, surf is boosted by both rain and STAB, so it should be your general form of spam. Next, lapras gets fairly good coverage, so you should use super-effective attacks as much as possible. Rain also grants you access to Thunder over thunderbolt. Finally, if all else fails(and it will against any decent wall with a recovery move), you may stay in and spam Ice beam until you get a freeze. I've done this to gastrodon on more than one occasion, and to blissey if I have +3 special attack.

    Lapras has surprising niche in OU.
  24. Onicon


    Jan 7, 2011
    Why don't you use Scald? You have said yourself that it thing only breaks tissue paper. Forget it, Lapras really does not get Scald. Dewgong and Walrein don't get it either.

    Our concern with Lapras is its Ice typing and its competition with Vaporeon as a Hydration-Wall - who is an underrated threat itself. While Lapras has superior physical bulk, this point is rendered moot by the weaknesses its second type brings with it: Fighting and Rock, mostly physical moves.
  25. Scorpiopt


    Jan 2, 2013
    Scizor @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Bug Bite
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Brick Breake

    Fakes a Choice band set looses a little power on neutral damage but it suprises a lot

    also i run a physical typlosion , it puts a stop to most water that switch in excepting a special attack politoed gets destroyed by wildcharge only Milotic (2KO with choice band and Vaporeon same thing can take it and try to wall it ) and pokemon like Volcarona or Chandelure are put a stop even Heatran and Jirachi cant survive the EQ, unless running physical defensive sets

    Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf Or Banded depends on if i decided to bring scarf hydreigon
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Wild Charge
    - Flare Blitz

    It Also has acess to Howl to setup but requires a free switch and using leftovers

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