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OU Cresselia

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Alter, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] / --
    Cresselia | #488

    [BW2 Smogon | Serebii | Bulbapedia]
    Overview
    ########
    Blessed with outstanding defensive stats and a solid movepool, Cresselia is an excellent support Pokemon in the Overused metagame. However, the generation shift was no doubt a double-edged sword for Cresselia; a global nerf to weather abilities has caused both rain and sand to be less threatening to Cresselia's main recovery but at the same time has also decreased sun's ability to boost Moonlight. As always, status plagues Cresselia to the very end, which is a weakness only worsened by its subpar defensive typing. On the bright side, Cresselia's ability, Levitate, provides it an immunity to grounded entry hazards and Ground-type attacks. On top of this, Cresselia possesses the perfect bulk in tandem with the right moves to handle the myriad physical attackers found in the tier. With either a full-on defensive or supportive dual screens set, Cresselia can have a heavy impact on matches and prove to be a major defensive threat.

    Defensive
    ########
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Moonlight
    move 2: Psychic / Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave / Reflect
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Bold

    Moves
    ========
    Despite wishing that it just had a little bit more to work with, Cresselia can utilize an effective defensive set with its unique movepool. Moonlight is used as the primary healing move and as such will be used a lot of the time. It is important to note that Moonlight has its shortcomings; it heals less health in sand and rain and has limited PP. Because of this, it should not be used excessively. Psychic is the main STAB move and allows Cresselia to chip down opponents and hit Fighting-types super effectively. Despite its slight nerf, Hidden Power Fire can also work well in this slot. Not only does it dispose of defensive Ferrothorn, but it also gives Cresselia a way to get past Scizor. Ice Beam rounds off the coverage and is a superb move for hitting physically based Dragon-types, Pokemon that Cresselia will often need to wall. Cresselia's final moveslot is dedicated to a status move best fit to the team. Toxic allows Cresselia to spread residual damage and slowly defeat Pokemon, whereas Thunder Wave is best fit for teams that have enough offensive firepower to finish off slower threats. However, Thunder Wave is inferior to Toxic when the team has enough defense to stall Pokemon out. Reflect is an option over either of the moves and enhances Cresselia's ability to take physical hits, allowing it to escape Pursuit more easily and can be used to support teammates.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EVs are maximized in Defense so that Cresselia can wall powerful physical attackers such as Garchomp, Terrakion, and Landorus-T. A Bold nature is chosen for the same reason, and the rest of the EVs are placed into Cresselia's Special Defense. Leftovers is a standard item for a wall such as Cresselia, providing a means of residual recovery or negating weather damage. In order to perform its role as a physical wall properly, straying from this item choice is not recommended. If one chooses to run Hidden Power Fire, an IV spread of 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe achieves the required Hidden Power type while minimizing Foul Play and confusion damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This Cresselia set aims to fulfill the role of a mixed wall with a primary focus on Defense. Because of this, Cresselia is best brought in to check physical attackers or Pokemon that it can efficiently stop. It is best to keep Cresselia as healthy as possible and mainly bring it in on Pokemon that are incapable of bypassing its ridiculous defensive limits. Cresselia can be used at essentially any time in the match, depending on what opponents opt to bring out themselves. However, it is a good idea to scout opposing sets to see what Cresselia can and can't handle. For example, because it is particularly vulnerable to being poisoned, Cresselia is best leaving more defensively inclined Pokemon (which can potentially run Toxic) for teammates to deal with. Because Cresselia can also force many switches, setting up hazards before using it to stall out Pokemon is a good idea so that you can take advantage of the entry hazard damage.

    Team Options
    ========
    If it hasn't been made clear already, Cresselia loathes Toxic. This makes Pokemon equipped with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy particularly good partners. Chansey can carry either of these moves and also makes an excellent defensive partner, being immune to Cresselia's Ghost-type weakness and taking special hits more capably. Cresselia reciprocates this support by having a resistance to Fighting-type moves. Other Pokemon commonly seen on stall teams are also great teammates for their ability to set hazards and wall the Pokemon that Cresselia cannot. Heatran is a great teammate for Cresselia because it can take care of Volcarona and Scizor, the tier's premier Bug-types. Drought support boosts Moonlight's effect while also getting rid of opposing weather. More specifically, Mega Charizard Y makes a good partner, as it sets up Drought and can take advantage of Thunder Wave support. Another excellent teammate on sun teams is Dugtrio, which can dispose of two great threats to both sun and Cresselia: Heatran and Tyranitar.

    Dual Screens
    ########
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Lunar Dance
    move 2: Reflect
    move 3: Light Screen
    move 4: Thunder Wave
    item: Light Clay
    evs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 12 SpD / 136 Spe
    nature: Bold

    Moves
    ========
    Thanks to Cresselia's enormous bulk, setting up Reflect and Light Screen multiple times throughout a match is a simple task. Reflect and Light Screen are used with the intent of supporting teammates and, more specifically, allowing frail offensive Pokemon to set up with extra protection from incoming attacks. Lunar Dance is the key move that separates Cresselia from other dual screen users, allowing Cresselia to give Pokemon a second chance to sweep. It also allows Cresselia to make use of itself after it has done its main job and avoid being dead weight on the team. It is notable that Lunar Dance also cures status ailments and can revive Pokemon that would otherwise fall from entry hazard damage upon returning to the field. Thunder Wave is used to support teammates by crippling Pokemon that attempt to break through Cresselia and can be used if Cresselia is slower than the Pokemon it is trying to set up dual screens on.

    Set Details
    ========
    Light Clay is a straightforward item choice, extending the length of Cresselia's Reflect and Light Screen in order to maximize the time a teammate can set up. With Reflect activated, the given EVs allow Cresselia to survive two Crunches from Choice Band Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. The EV spread also lets Cresselia outspeed Adamant Bisharp and Modest Politoed with maximum Speed investment, thus giving Cresselia more opportunities to set up dual screens. By having 248 EVs in HP, Cresselia hits a Stealth Rock number and thus loses less health from residual damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Cresselia is brought in before a sweeper to set up dual screens when it is convenient in order to prepare the field conditions. Reflect and Light Screen in conjunction allow formerly paper-thin sweepers to gain precious turns to accumulate boosts, and Cresselia needs to set these up before said sweepers can jump into the fray. It is often recommended to use Reflect before Light Screen, as most switch-ins to Cresselia tend to be physically oriented. After it has set up screens, spreading status through Thunder Wave is an excellent way to make use of Cresselia, especially when it is not appropriate to switch directly into a teammate. It is also useful to paralyze opponents before activating the dual screens so that teammates can make the most out of the limited turns that they have. In some matches, Cresselia will be able to set up screens multiple times. When this happens, it is often best to do this and then, when Cresselia's health depletes too much, use Lunar Dance to revive a teammate.

    Team Options
    ========
    This particular Cresselia set provides excellent support for frail setup sweepers; Volcarona, Thundurus, Manaphy, and Lucario can all employ dual screens to effectively boost their offensive stats while being able to simultaneously sponge incoming attacks. Most of Cresselia's best teammates are backed up by superb coverage and power, only lacking the defensive prowess to boost under normal circumstances. Because of Cresselia's access to Lunar Dance, these setup sweepers are also capable of being given a second chance. Notably, Lunar Dance renews Dragonite's Multiscale, and therefore makes it an excellent partner. Less immediately threatening and more defensive boosters, such as Suicune and Reuniclus, can also exploit the benefits of dual screens to acquire their essential starting boosts.

    Other Options
    ########
    A Trick Room set is also possible on Cresselia for teams that require such support. This can be used alongside dual screens or on a dedicated moveset. However, stiff competition exists for this role already and Cresselia has little offensive presence to combine it with. As an alternate form of recovering health, a RestTalk set is plausible, especially with the changed sleep mechanics. This could potentially be paired with a Flame Orb + Psycho Shift combination, but it severely limits Cresselia's moveslot options as a result. From a glance, a Calm Mind set looks reasonably good. However, Cresselia is mostly outclassed by other Calm Mind users such as Reuniclus, making the set hard to pull off as effectively.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Sand**: One of Cresselia's greatest defensive flaws is that its recovery can be very unreliable at times. Under sand, Moonlight only recovers 33% of Cresselia's health. Moreover, the main user of Sand Stream, Tyranitar, is a large threat to Cresselia it its own right. The Choice Band and Mega Dragon Dance sets are particularly threatening, dealing massive damage to Cresselia with super effective Crunch. Cresselia's weak attacks do little to Tyranitar due to the latter's monstrous Special Defense and its only way of hurting Tyranitar properly is through Toxic.

    *Offensive Threats**: Irrespective of its titanic bulk, some offensive threats exist that can still take down Cresselia. For example, various users of U-turn are capable of dealing heavy damage to Cresselia. In particular, Scizor possesses an extremely powerful U-turn which can rack up some damage; this is particularly dangerous when paired with an unfavorable weather condition or another offensive threat. More importantly, a number of boosted Pokemon such as Nasty Plot Thundurus-T and Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar can also overpower and break through Cresselia's defenses if given the opportunity to set up sufficiently.

    **Status / Taunt**: As mentioned numerous times, Toxic is a particularly troublesome status for Cresselia and is an excellent way of defeating it. Users of Toxic such as Chansey and Slowbro can inflict the condition, with the former being able to heal off Cresselia's own status attempts. On top of this, users of Taunt can lock down Cresselia's recovery method and wear it down over the match. Thundurus, Mandibuzz, and Sableye are all capable users of Taunt. Mandibuzz can also use Knock Off to get rid of Cresselia's precious Leftovers.

    **Magic Guard**: As Cresselia's main form of damage is through Toxic, Pokemon with Magic Guard generally prove to be excellent checks. Pokemon such as Reuniclus and Clefable not only possess an immunity to Toxic but can also set up with impunity using moves such as Calm Mind and Cosmic Power.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  2. 6feetunder

    6feetunder

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    That bit about U-turn is not true - Cresselia shrugs off most U-turns despite super-effective damage.

    4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 114-134 (25.6 - 30.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 138-164 (31 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Choice Band Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 206-246 (46.3 - 55.4%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Genesect needs a choice band to even stand a chance of 2HKOing.

    Why mention night shade specifically, when foul play and knock off are superior options for it?
    Monte Cristo likes this.
  3. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    You're right about the U-turn part - I made a mistake there. I'll also remove the direct mention of Night Shade. Previously Sableye ran it as its main option and I didn't consider Knock Off. Cheers, mate.
  4. Plus

    Plus real vibes
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    The main selling point of HP Fire is more of Forretress and Ferrothorn than Genesect, as you don't want to be set-up bait to spikestacking when you use Cresselia. Sure, HP Fire is nice for hitting Scizor and Genesect, but unless you're hitting Genesect on the switch-in, it will u-turn out before you even have a chance to do anything.

    I'd also be a little more specific with the distinction between Thunder Wave and Toxic -- Thunder Wave is better for teams that have enough offensive firepower to finish off slower threats, while Toxic is better for teams that have enough defense to stall things out. Balance doesn't really explain all that much and can mean anything, as its that broad of a playstyle.

    On team options when you mention Dugtrio, please make a note that it should really only be considered on Sun teams who really need those things gone for stuff like Chloro Venusaur to start sweeping. Charizard Y makes a good partner because it sets up Drought, has access to Focus Blast to eliminate Heatran and Tyranitar, and takes advantage of Thunder Wave support.

    Your EV spread for DS Cress I can't speak much about, but I'd like some other QC feedback on that because I really don't know what is important to outspeed with Cressy.

    I'll stamp this later once some changes have been made and some other QC guys have spoken.
  5. Alter

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    Implemented the mention of Ferro + Forretress (for some reason I thought I already said this separately to Scizor/Gene) - good pickup. I also made the distinction between Thunder Wave and Toxic more clear. Finally, I added more specificity when referring to Dugtrio and Drought support (Charizard-Y). As I mentioned on irc for everyone else, the Dual Screens EV spread was preserved from a previous analysis. I thought it was still relevant and effective but I'm open to hear alternate ones. Thanks, Plus.
  6. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    Eh I really can't see much wrong with this. Cresselia's still usable, I guess.

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  7. Plus

    Plus real vibes
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    qc 2/3 write it up
  8. Alter

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    Thanks. I'll write it up now.

    Edit: Completed writing. This is ready for a 3rd QC check.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  9. PK Gaming

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    QC APPROVED (3/3)

    Good work!
  10. Kingler12345

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    Overview
    ########
    Blessed with outstanding defensive stats and a solid movepool, Cresselia makes for an excellent support Pokemon in the Overused metagame. The generation shift was no doubt a double-edged sword for Cresselia; a global nerf to all weather abilities has caused both rain and sand to be less threatening to Cresselia's main recovery, while, at the same time, has also decreased sun's ability to boost Moonlight. As always, status plagues Cresselia to the very end, which is a weakness only worsened by its sub-par defensive typing. On the bright side, Cresselia's ability,(AC) Levitate,(AC) provides it an immunity to grounded entry hazards and Ground-type attacks. On top of this, Cresselia possesses the perfect bulk in tandem with the right moves to handle a myriad of physical attackers found in the tier. With either a full-on defensive or supportive Dual Screens dual screens set, Cresselia can have a heavy impact on matches and prove to be a major defensive threat.

    Defensive
    ########
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Moonlight
    move 2: Psyshock / Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave / Reflect
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Bold

    Moves
    ========
    Despite wishing that it just had a little bit more to work with, Cresselia can utilize an effective defensive set with its unique movepool. Moonlight is used as the primary healing move and as such will be used a lot of the time. It is important to note that Moonlight suffers a decrease has its shortcomings; it heals less health in sand and rain along with and has limited PP. Because of this, it should not be used excessively. Psyshock is an interchangeable move with Psychic and allows Cresselia to chip down opponents and hit Fighting-types super effectively(why isnt it on the main set?!?!? why is psyshock better than psychic). Regardless of its slight nerf, Hidden Power Fire can also work well in this slot. Not only does Hidden Power Fire it dispose of the defensive(if you meant they are bulky change to 'the rather bulky' and if you meant their defensive sets remove 'the') Ferrothorn and Forretress, but it also gives Cresselia a great way to get past Scizor and Genesect. Ice Beam rounds off the coverage and is a superb move for hitting physically based Dragon-types,(ac) Pokemon which Cresselia will often be relegated to with the role of walling. Cresselia's final moveslot is dedicated to a status move best fit to the team. Toxic allows Cresselia to spread residual damage and slowly defeat Pokemon, whereas Thunder Wave is best fit for teams that have enough offensive firepower to finish off slower threats. However, Thunder Wave is inferior to Toxic when the team has enough defense to stall Pokemon out. Reflect is an option over either of the moves which and enhances Cresselia's ability to take physical hits, allowing it to escape Pursuit with more easily and can be used to support teammates.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EVs are maximized in Defense so that Cresselia can wall powerful physical attackers such as Garchomp, Terrakion,(AC) and Landorus-T. A Bold nature is chosen for the same reason, and the rest of the EVs are placed into Cresselia's Special Defense. Leftovers is a standard item for a wall such as Cresselia, providing a means of residual recovery or negating weather damage. In order to perform its role as a physical wall properly, straying from this item choice is not recommended. If one chooses to run Hidden Power Fire, an IV spread of 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe achieves the required Hidden Power type while minimizing Foul Play and confusion damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This Cresselia set aims to fulfill the role of a mixed wall with a primary focus on the physically defensive side. Because of this, Cresselia is best brought in to check physical attackers or Pokemon that it can otherwise efficiently stop. It is best to keep Cresselia as healthy possible and bring it in on Pokemon that are incapable of bypassing its ridiculous defensive limits. Cresselia can be used at essentially any time in the match, depending on what the opponent opts to bring out themself. However, it is a good idea to scout opposing sets to see what Cresselia can and can't handle. For example, because it is particularly vulnerable to being poisoned, Cresselia is best leaving more defensively inclined Pokemon (which can potentially run Toxic) for teammates to deal with. Because Cresselia can also force many switches, setting up hazards before using it to stall (stall what) out is a good idea so that you can take advantage of the entry hazard damage.

    Team Options
    ========
    If it hasn't been made clear already, Cresselia loathes Toxic. This makes Pokemon equipped with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy particularly good partners. Chansey can carry either of these moves and also makes an excellent defensive partner, being immune to Cresselia's Ghost-type weakness and taking special hits more capably. Cresselia reciprocates this support by having a resistance to Fighting-type moves. Other Pokemon commonly seen on Stall stall teams are also great teammates for their ability to set hazards and wall the Pokemon that Cresselia cannot. Heatran is a great teammate to for Cresselia because it can take care of Genesect and Scizor, the tier's premier Bug-types. Drought support boosts Moonlight's effect while also getting rid of opposing weather. More specifically, Mega Charizard Y makes a good partner,(AC) as it sets up Drought and can take advantage of Thunder Wave support. Another excellent teammate on sun teams is Dugtrio, which can dispose of two great threats to both sun and Cresselia: Heatran and Tyranitar.

    Dual Screens
    ########
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Lunar Dance
    move 2: Reflect
    move 3: Light Screen
    move 4: Thunder Wave
    item: Light Clay
    evs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 12 SpD / 136 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Thanks to Cresselia's enormous bulk, setting up Reflect and Light Screen multiple times throughout a match is a simple task. Reflect and Light Screen are used with the intent of supporting teammates and, more specifically, allowing frail offensive Pokemon to set up with the extra protection from incoming attacks. Lunar Dance is a the key move which separates Cresselia from other dual screen users and allows Cresselia to give Pokemon a second chance to sweep. It also allows Cresselia to make use of itself after it has done its main job without being dead weight on the team. It is notable that Lunar Dance also cures status ailments and can revive Pokemon that would other die from entry hazard damage upon returning to the field. Thunder Wave is used to support teammates by crippling Pokemon which that attempt to break Cresselia and can be used if Cresselia is slower than the Pokemon it is trying to set up dual screens on.

    Set Details
    ========
    Light Clay is a straightforward item choice, extending the length of Cresselia's Reflect and Light Screen in order to maximize the time a teammate can set up. With Reflect activated, the given EVs allow Cresselia to survive two Crunches after Stealth Rock from Choice Band Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. In addition, t The EV spread also lets Cresselia outspeed Adamant Breloom and Modest Politoed with maximum Speed investment, thus giving Cresselia more opportunities to set up dual screens. By having 248 EVs in HP, Cresselia hits a Stealth Rock number, and thus loses less health from residual damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Cresselia is brought in before a sweeper to set up dual screens when it is convenient in order to prepare the field conditions. Reflect and Light Screen in conjunction allow formerly paper-thin sweepers to gain precious turns to accumulate boosts, and Cresselia needs to set these up before the Pokemon said sweepers can jump into the fray. It is often recommended to use Reflect before Light Screen,(AC) as most switch-ins to Cresselia tend to be physically oriented. After it has set up screens, spreading status through Thunder Wave is an excellent way to make use of Cresselia, especially when it is not appropriate to switch directly into a teammate. It also also useful to paralyse paralyze opponents before activating the dual screens so that teammates can make the most out of the limited turns that they have. In some matches,(AC) Cresselia will be able to set up screens multiple times and, when its health depletes too much, it is best to use Lunar Dance to revive a teammate.

    Team Options
    ========
    This particular Cresselia set provides excellent support for frail setup sweepers; Volcarona, Thundurus-I, Cloyster,(AC) and Lucario can all employ dual screens to effectively boost their offensive stats while being able to simultaneously sponge incoming attacks. Most of Cresselia's best teammates are backed up by superb coverage and power, only lacking the defensive prowess to boost in under normal circumstances. Because of Cresselia's access to Lunar Dance, these set up sweepers are also capable of being given a second chance. Notably, Lunar Dance renews Dragonite's Multiscale, and therefore makes it excellent partner(sr????). Less immediately threatening or and more defensive boosters, such as Suicune and Reuniclus, can also exploit the benefits of dual screens to acquire their essential starting boosts.

    Other Options
    ########
    A Trick Room set is also possible on Cresselia for teams which that require such support. This can be used alongside the Dual Screen dual screens set or on a dedicated moveset. However, stiff competition exists for this role already and Cresselia has little offensive presence to combine it with. As an alternate form of recovering health, a RestTalk set is plausible, especially with the changed sleep mechanics. This could potentially be paired with a Flame Orb + Psycho Shift combination, but it severely limits Cresselia's moveslot options as a result. From a glance, a Calm Mind set looks reasonably good. Although, However, Cresselia is mostly outclassed by other Calm Mind users such as Reuniclus and Jirachi, making the set hard to pull off as effectively.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Sand**: One of Cresselia's greatest defensive flaws is that its recovery can be very unreliable at times. Under sand, Moonlight only recovers 33% of Cresselia's health. Moreover, the main user of Sand Stream, Tyranitar, is a large threat to Cresselia it its own right. The Choice Band and Mega Dragon Dance sets are particularly threatening, dealing massive damage to the lunar maiden with the super effective Crunch. Cresselia's weak attacks do little to Tyranitar due to the latter's monstrous Special Defense and its only way of hurting Tyranitar properly is through Toxic.

    *Offensive threats**: Irrespective of its titanic bulk, some offensive threats exist which that can still take down Cresselia. For example, various users of U-turn are capable of dealing heavy damage to Cresselia. In particular, Genesect and Scizor possess extremely powerful U-turns which can rack up some damage; this is particularly dangerous when paired with an unfavorable weather condition or another offensive threat. More importantly, a number of boosted Pokemon such as Nasty Plot Thundurus-T or Swords Dance Mega Lucario can also overpower and break Cresselia if given the opportunity to set up sufficiently.

    **Status / Taunt**: As has been mentioned numerous times, Toxic is a particularly troublesome status for Cresselia and is an excellent way of defeating its it. Users of Toxic such as Chansey and Slowbro can inflict the condition, with the former being able to heal off Cresselia's own status attempts. On top of this, users of Taunt can lock down Cresselia's recovery method and wear it down over the match. Thundurus-I, Mandibuzz and Sableye are all capable users of Taunt. Mandibuzz can also use Knock Off to get rid of Cresselia's precious Leftovers.

    **Magic Guard**: As Cresselia's main form of damage is through Toxic, Pokemon with Magic Guard generally prove to be excellent checks. Pokemon such as Reuniclus and Clefable not only possess an immunity to this damage Toxic, but can also set up with impunity using moves such as Calm Mind and Cosmic Power.

    gp 1/2
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  11. Alter

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    GP check #1 has been implemented. Ready for a second one now.
  12. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
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    Finished GP check (open)

    Overview
    ########
    Blessed with outstanding defensive stats and a solid movepool, Cresselia makes for an excellent support Pokemon in the Overused metagame.
    However, the generation shift was no doubt a double-edged sword for Cresselia; a global nerf to all weather abilities has caused both rain and sand to be less threatening to Cresselia's main recovery, but while, at the same time, has also decreased sun's ability to boost Moonlight. As always, status plagues Cresselia to the very end, which is a weakness only worsened by its sub-par defensive typing. On the bright side, Cresselia's ability, Levitate, provides it an immunity to grounded entry hazards and Ground-type attacks. On top of this, Cresselia possesses the perfect bulk in tandem with the right moves to handle a myriad of physical attackers found in the tier. With either a full-on defensive or supportive dual screens set, Cresselia can have a heavy impact on matches and prove to be a major defensive threat.

    Defensive
    ########
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Moonlight
    move 2: Psyshock / Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave / Reflect
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Bold

    Moves
    ========
    Despite wishing that it just had a little bit more to work with, Cresselia can utilize an effective defensive set with its unique movepool. Moonlight is used as the primary healing move and as such will be used a lot of the time. It is important to note that Moonlight has its shortcomings; it heals less health in sand and rain and has limited PP. Because of this, it should not be used excessively. Psyshock is interchangeable with Psychic and allows Cresselia to chip down opponents and hit Fighting-types super effectively.
    Despite Regardless of its slight nerf, Hidden Power Fire can also work well in this slot. Not only does it dispose of defensive Ferrothorn and Forretress, but it also gives Cresselia a way to get past Scizor and Genesect. Ice Beam rounds off the coverage and is a superb move for hitting physically based Dragon-types, Pokemon which Cresselia will often be relegated to with the role of walling. Cresselia's final moveslot is dedicated to a status move best fit to the team. Toxic allows Cresselia to spread residual damage and slowly defeat Pokemon, whereas Thunder Wave is best fit for teams that have enough offensive firepower to finish off slower threats. However, Thunder Wave is inferior to Toxic when the team has enough defense to stall Pokemon out. Reflect is an option over either of the moves and enhances Cresselia's ability to take physical hits, allowing it to escape Pursuit with more easily and can be used to support teammates.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EVs are maximized in Defense so that Cresselia can wall powerful physical attackers such as Garchomp, Terrakion and Landorus-T. A Bold nature is chosen for the same reason, and the rest of the EVs are placed into Cresselia's Special Defense. Leftovers is a standard item for a wall such as Cresselia, providing a means of residual recovery or negating weather damage. In order to perform its role as a physical wall properly, straying from this item choice is not recommended. If one chooses to run Hidden Power Fire, an IV spread of 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe achieves the required Hidden Power type while minimizing Foul Play and confusion damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This Cresselia set aims to fulfill the role of a mixed wall with a primary focus on the physically defensive side. Because of this, Cresselia is best brought in to check physical attackers or Pokemon that it can efficiently stop. It is best to keep Cresselia as healthy possible and bring it in on Pokemon that are incapable of bypassing its ridiculous defensive limits. Cresselia can be used at essentially any time in the match, depending on what the opponent opts to bring out themself. However, it is a good idea to scout opposing sets to see what Cresselia can and can't handle. For example, because it is particularly vulnerable to being poisoned, Cresselia is best leaving more defensively inclined Pokemon (which can potentially run Toxic) for teammates to deal with. Because Cresselia can also force many switches, setting up hazards before using it to stall out Pokemon is a good idea so that you can take advantage of the entry hazard damage.

    Team Options
    ========
    If it hasn't been made clear already, Cresselia loathes Toxic. This makes Pokemon equipped with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy particularly good partners. Chansey can carry either of these moves and also makes an excellent defensive partner, being immune to Cresselia's Ghost-type weakness and taking special hits more capably. Cresselia reciprocates this support by having a resistance to Fighting-type moves. Other Pokemon commonly seen on stall teams are also great teammates for their ability to set hazards and wall the Pokemon that Cresselia cannot. Heatran is a great teammate for Cresselia because it can take care of Genesect and Scizor, the tier's premier Bug-types. Drought support boosts Moonlight's effect while also getting rid of opposing weather. More specifically, Mega Charizard Y makes a good partner, as it sets up Drought and can take advantage of Thunder Wave support. Another excellent teammate on sun teams is Dugtrio, which can dispose of two great threats to both sun and Cresselia: Heatran and Tyranitar.

    Dual Screens
    ########
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Lunar Dance
    move 2: Reflect
    move 3: Light Screen
    move 4: Thunder Wave
    item: Light Clay
    evs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 12 SpD / 136 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Thanks to Cresselia's enormous bulk, setting up Reflect and Light Screen multiple times throughout a match is a simple task. Reflect and Light Screen are used with the intent of supporting teammates and, more specifically, allowing frail offensive Pokemon to set up with the extra protection from incoming attacks. Lunar Dance is the key move which separates Cresselia from other dual screen users and allows Cresselia to give Pokemon a second chance to sweep. It also allows Cresselia to make use of itself after it has done its main job without being dead weight on the team. It is notable that Lunar Dance also cures status ailments and can revive Pokemon that would other
    wise fall die from entry hazard damage upon returning to the field. Thunder Wave is used to support teammates by crippling Pokemon that attempt to break past Cresselia and can be used if Cresselia is slower than the Pokemon it is trying to set up dual screens on.

    Set Details
    ========
    Light Clay is a straightforward item choice, extending the length of Cresselia's Reflect and Light Screen in order to maximize the time a teammate can set up. With Reflect activated, the given EVs allow Cresselia to survive two Crunches from Choice Band Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. The EV spread also lets Cresselia outspeed Adamant Breloom and Modest Politoed with maximum Speed investment, thus giving Cresselia more opportunities to set up dual screens. By having 248 EVs in HP, Cresselia hits a Stealth Rock number, and thus loses less health from residual damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Cresselia is brought in before a sweeper to set up dual screens when it is convenient in order to prepare the field conditions. Reflect and Light Screen in conjunction allow formerly paper-thin sweepers to gain precious turns to accumulate boosts, and Cresselia needs to set these up before said sweepers can jump into the fray. It is often recommended to use Reflect before Light Screen, as most switch-ins to Cresselia tend to be physically oriented. After it has set up screens, spreading status through Thunder Wave is an excellent way to make use of Cresselia, especially when it is not appropriate to switch directly into a teammate. It
    is also also useful to paralyze opponents before activating the dual screens so that teammates can make the most out of the limited turns that they have. In some matches, Cresselia will be able to set up screens multiple times and, when its health depletes too much, it is then best to use Lunar Dance to revive a teammate.

    Team Options
    ========
    This particular Cresselia set provides excellent support for frail setup sweepers; Volcarona, Thundurus-I, Cloyster, and Lucario can all employ dual screens to effectively boost their offensive stats while being able to simultaneously sponge incoming attacks. Most of Cresselia's best teammates are backed up by superb coverage and power, only lacking the defensive prowess to boost under normal circumstances. Because of Cresselia's access to Lunar Dance, these set up sweepers are also capable of being given a second chance. Notably, Lunar Dance renews Dragonite's Multiscale, and therefore makes
    Dragonite an it excellent partner. Less immediately threatening and more defensive boosters, such as Suicune and Reuniclus, can also exploit the benefits of dual screens to acquire their essential starting boosts.

    Other Options
    ########
    A Trick Room set is also possible on Cresselia for teams that require such support. This can be used alongside
    the dual screens set or on a dedicated moveset. However, stiff competition exists for this role already and Cresselia has little offensive presence to combine it with. As an alternate form of recovering health, a RestTalk set is plausible, especially with the changed sleep mechanics. This could potentially be paired with a Flame Orb + Psycho Shift combination, but it severely limits Cresselia's moveslot options as a result. From a glance, a Calm Mind set looks reasonably good. However, Cresselia is mostly outclassed by other Calm Mind users such as Reuniclus and Jirachi, making the set hard to pull off as effectively.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Sand**: One of Cresselia's greatest defensive flaws is that its recovery can be very unreliable at times. Under sand, Moonlight only recovers 33% of Cresselia's health. Moreover, the main user of Sand Stream, Tyranitar, is a large threat to Cresselia it its own right. The Choice Band and Mega Dragon Dance sets are particularly threatening, dealing massive damage to the lunar maiden with the super effective Crunch. Cresselia's weak attacks do little to Tyranitar due to the latter's monstrous Special Defense and its only way of hurting Tyranitar properly is through Toxic.

    **Offensive threats**: Irrespective of its titanic bulk, some offensive threats exist that can still take down Cresselia. For example, various users of U-turn are capable of dealing heavy damage to Cresselia. In particular, Genesect and Scizor possess extremely powerful U-turns which can rack up some damage; this is particularly dangerous when paired with an unfavorable weather condition or another offensive threat. More importantly, a number of boosted Pokemon such as Nasty Plot Thundurus-T or Swords Dance Mega Lucario can also overpower and break through Cresselia's defenses if given the opportunity to set up sufficiently.

    **Status / Taunt**: As
    has been mentioned numerous times, Toxic is a particularly troublesome status for Cresselia and is an excellent way of defeating it. Users of Toxic such as Chansey and Slowbro can inflict the condition, with the former being able to heal off Cresselia's own status attempts. On top of this, users of Taunt can lock down Cresselia's recovery method and wear it down over the match. Thundurus-I, Mandibuzz and Sableye are all capable users of Taunt. Mandibuzz can also use Knock Off to get rid of Cresselia's precious Leftovers.

    **Magic Guard**: As Cresselia's main form of damage is through Toxic, Pokemon with Magic Guard generally prove to be excellent checks. Pokemon such as Reuniclus and Clefable not only possess an immunity to Toxic, but can also set up with impunity using moves such as Calm Mind and Cosmic Power.



    GP 2/2

    [​IMG]


    nice work.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  13. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    If you guys are deliberating over psychic vs psyshock I believe psyshock is ideal because it lets you pressure calm mind users more easily, while bulk up users tend to be fighting types and are poor match ups against cresselia regardless.
  14. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    Thanks, Electro! I've implemented your GP check.

    After discussing it on IRC, I've changed Psyshock over to Psychic and completely removed the mention of Psyshock in the analysis. I've also edited the EV spread to a different one that I made which is more efficient in terms of saving points while still reaching the same things that the last one did.

    This analysis is now complete.
    Note: If you have any comments or suggestions regarding a particular set (or move mention) feel free to VM me instead of posting in the thread as there is most likely a reason I (as well as QC) chose to not include it. It also helps keep the thread tidy. Thanks!
  15. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    Labyrinthine

    1)
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Bold

    (for both sets) - order should be item / nature / evs

    2) thundurus-i -> thundurus

    gp sirn/2
    Alter likes this.
  16. FredFord

    FredFord

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    Are you telling me you don't expect the MOON Pokemon itself to get MOON Blast?
  17. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    Edited in sirndpt's fixes.
    FredFord:
    I didn't include Moonblast despite it being used by a Cresselia in the Battle Institute as
    1. Ice Beam hits a lot of Dragons harder due to their x4 weakness
    2. Moonblast doesn't gain STAB as Cresselia is confirmed not to be a Fairy-type
    3. It is not confirmed to be possible as of yet. It has only been used by an opponent in-game.
    Thanks. :toast:
  18. TheDoctor1

    TheDoctor1

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    hey instead of psychic or hp fire on the first set how about charge beam? I find it useful in stopping pokes who try to set up on cress (I also use ther thunderwave version so I para then can charge beam on stuff). I know she is not for sweeping, but I feel charge beam creates a threat that the opponent has to react to and they can't just try to stall. Plus while weaker then the classic boltbeam coverage it still does hit much of the meta for at least neutral dmg.

    I also use a different ev spread which is similar to the ev spread i used in 4th gen to counter mixed mence, but I feel like most people won't agree with my spread so I dont plan on posting it here.
  19. Winddragon48

    Winddragon48

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    "allowing it to escape Pursuit with more easily"

    Missed one lords of grammar?
  20. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    Good find. I originally had it as "with more ease" and forgot to remove the "with". I've fixed it up now.
  21. StViers

    StViers

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    At the risk of being stuffy and presumptuous (this being my first post and all), mind if I point a few things out?

    • "Makes for" should probably just be "makes," or even more basic, "Cresselia is an"--Makes for is
    make for
    1.
    To have or produce (a particular effect or result): small details that make for comfort.
    2. To help promote; further: makes for better communication. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/make for)

    • "a global nerf to all weather abilities" You need to choose one or the other-- "A global nerf to weather" or "A nerf to all weather."

    • I'd go so far as to say "...;while the global change to weather abilities means that sand and rain don't weaken Moonlight (Cresselias's main recovery move) as severely as they did last generation, the lack of permanent sun means Moonlight won't be boosted as frequently either, even if you win the weather war. Otherwise it's business as usual, with Cressilia's weakness to status and poor defensive typing being balanced out by the Levitate ability, allowing it to bypass grounded entry hazards and Ground attacks." I feel that this way the summary of it's strengths and weaknesses is *slightly* more cohesive and easier to parse.
    • Another small detail is that "a myriad of physical attackers" should be "the myriad physical attackers" (http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/myriad.html) If you wanna keep the distinct feel of "it walls a large number but not all of," I would suggest "a plethora of the physical attackers in the tier" as the fancily worded alternative ;)

    I hope these help! Long time browser of these forums, so trying to finally give back.









    sirndpt, Psyco_Josho and Alter like this.
  22. Direwolf12

    Direwolf12

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    Cresselia gets Moonblast I'm pretty sure, she can easily use that instead of Psychic/Psyshock... might not get STAB but it deals with Fighting types as well as Dark and Dragons
  23. Zebstrika

    Zebstrika

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    I think Moonblast is at least worth a mention (it was confirmed that Cresselia learns it at level 99) in the moves paragraph or other options, it sort of combines Psychic and Ice coverage into one move by hitting Fighting and Dragon types at the same time. It also hits some frailer dark types that try to pursuit trap Cresselia, though Tyranitar and Bisharp aren't taking much. Nothing is immune to it, so with all that put together I think it is Cresselia's best option if she only runs one attack. Also, Moonblast has a 30% SpA drop which is actually sort of reliable, unlike the other moves' 2nd effects.
  24. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    Moonblast has already been addressed in this thread. As I've mentioned on multiple occasions, I'd prefer if there's suggestions are mentioned over VM because there is a reason I have not implemented them.

    I'll briefly reiterate why I'm not putting Moonblast in the main set.
    • Ice Beam hits Pokemon which are x4 weak to it harder than Moonblast can.
      • This allows it to hit Salamence, Garchomp, Dragonite, Gliscor, Landorus-T, and others harder while only missing out on Charizard-X (which it can Toxic anyway).
    • Cresselia does not get STAB on Moonblast at all, which means damage output is significantly lower.
    • The Dark-type Pokemon which Cresselia intends to hit with Moonblast don't even take much damage at all. It deals 18.3 - 21.7% to Tyranitar and 21.8 - 25.7% to Bisharp.
    • Psychic hits Fighting-types much harder while also not doing pitiful damage against everything else.
      • For instance, Psychic can 2HKO Terrakion / Keldeo whereas Moonblast only 3HKOs. Other examples include Breloom being KOd 68.8% of the time after Stealth Rock
    • Cresselia will not be running one attack as running Moonblast by itself would leave it able to check a lot fewer threats. The 30% SpA drop rate isn't particularly impressive either.
    Thanks. :toast:
  25. Zebstrika

    Zebstrika

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    Ok, one other small nitpick; the dual screens EVs say they are to outspeed Adamant Breloom and Modest Politoed, who both have max speed of 239 but the EVs go way above that, to a speed of 264. Not sure if you meant if you meant to say you outspeed something else like Adamant Gyarados/Dragonite or if you meant to have less EVs (136 outspeeds Adamant Breloom and other base 70s).

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