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Crisis Core Revival! Round Five

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Raseri, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,429
    back by popular demand!

    <~DTC> crisis core please
    <%Keiran> free crisis core
    <@cbb> FREE CRISIS CORE

    So since the meta has had time to settle I think its time to revive the game we all loved to play :). There are a few things I plan on doing this time though: Bonus Points will be used a lot more. Maybe a stray Skuntank will kill your Drowzee, or you'll post Torkoal a second to late.

    Some guarantees though:
    these is always a +1 bonus point for the best poster during each round.
    We will make fun of you if you have negative points.


    The old OP (open)
    Introduction

    Hello NU players of the world!

    For those of you who have witnessed the debauchery that is "Counter That Pokemon" threads will know that they very quickly become PC++ games. This game is designed to be different, instead of just posting Heatran as a counter every other post we will all be attempting to counter some common(and maybe not so common) cores in the Neverused enviroment.
    In an attempt to maintain the activity from that thread while having discussion more pertinent to the metagame, we are going to start a little competition. This competition will see who can consistently demonstrate knowledge of the metagame.




    The Goal


    The object of the game is to post the best possible Pokemon that counters the duo posted by myself at the start of every round. By posting 1 or 2 Pokemon that counters the duo, we will obtain knowledge of the metagame and you will gain points. Another aspect of the game is to prevent the other players from getting points, and this is done by proving in this thread that their post does not counter the duo as well as they say it does. Without further ado, let's play



    Crisis Core

    The basic concept is that we want to discover ways to break common cores in the metagame without real difficulty. NU is balanced and a lot of cores are becoming very common and people are struggling to break them, our job is to find a way.

    Your Pokemon must be viable.



    Leaderboard:
    no one yet!!


    I'll just get started with Round One:



    [​IMG]Cinccino @ Life Orb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Tail Slap
    - Bullet Seed
    - Rock Blast
    - U-turn

    +

    [​IMG]Golurk @ Choice Band
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Punch
    - Drain Punch

    There is Stealth Rock's up on your side of the field. So don't bring your Charizards if you don't have a dank staryu as back up! I'll leave this open for about a week, though probably more since ill get lazy updating it!
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    [​IMG]

    Tangela
    Eviolite | Bold | Regenerator
    252 HP | 204 Def | 52 Spd
    Synthesis | Leech Seed | Giga Drain | Knock Off


    The worst possible scenario for Tangela is to come in on Golurk's Ice Punch and be left with 38% HP after Stealth Rock damage. With this spread, it can then Knock Off Golurk's Choice Band before it can KO Tangela and proceed to stall it out with a combination of Leech Seed, Synthesis and Giga Drain. Cinccino will fall similarly as long as Tangela is healthy after taking Golurk down, which isn't hard thanks to Leech Seed and Giga Drain.


    Calcs (open)
    252 Atk Iron Fist Golurk (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 252 HP/204 Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def) : 28.74% - 34.13%

    252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap vs 252 HP/204 Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def) : 29.64% - 35.03%

    252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Golurk (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 252 HP/204 Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def) : 42.51% - 50.3%

    0 SpAtk Tangela Giga Drain vs 168 HP/0 SpDef Golurk: 54.02% - 63.99%

    0 SpAtk Tangela Giga Drain vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Cinccino: 42.27% - 49.83%
  3. Keiran

    Keiran

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    449
    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Waterfall

    Mawile @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Knock Off
    - Protect
    - Toxic

    So this core totes manhandles Cinccino + Golurk. First, calcs.

    252 Atk Choice Band Golurk (+Atk) Earthquake vs 244 HP/252 Def Alomomola (+Def) : 40.6% - 47.93%

    Alomomola 100% counters Golurk, even though after Stealth Rock, Earthquake 2HKO's Alomomola. As Protect means that Alomomola gets free Leftovers recovery.

    As for Cinccino, Mawile takes care of it.

    252 -1 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap vs 252 HP/252 Def Mawile (+Def) : 3.95% - 4.61%

    With Intimidate, Mawile cuts Cinccino's attack by -1.

    As Cinccino is the first Pokemon listed in the OP, I imagine it is the first Pokemon sent out.

    On Turn 1, I send out Mawile, as it can intimidate both Cinccino and Golurk. If the opponent leads with Golurk, I can promptly switch to Alomomola to take its -1 Earthquake easily. If he leads with Cinccino, it's forced out, so as it uses U-Turn, I use Knock Off to remove the incoming Golurk's Choice Band, even if Cinccino stays in for whatever reason, its Life Orb gets removed, so its easily for Alomomola to take it on. Now on Turn 2, assuming Golurk has switched in and it lacks its Choice Band, I switch to Alomomola to take its attack. At this point Alomomola can pretty much Toxic Stall to infinity. If the Golurk is forced out to Cinccino to attempt to Bullet Seed it, I can simply switch into Mawile and take its hits. They both can do decent damage too, with their respective STAB moves.
  4. BattleStar

    BattleStar

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    Reserving Zangoose and Misdreavous
  5. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
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    656
    (Keiran Y U TAKE MAWILE!)

    [​IMG]

    Weezing @ Leftovers
    EVs : 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
    Bold Nature

    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower / Sludge Bomb

    [​IMG]

    Bastiodon @ Leftovers
    EVs : 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
    Impish Nature

    - Stealth Rock
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Magic Coat / Rock Blast / Earthquake

    Weezing can easily take on Golurk as it takes 44% max from Shadow Punch. It can then proceed to outspeed it and burn it with the given EV spread. Bastiodon can easily take on Cinccino and it can set up Stealth Rock to wear down the opposing core as these two just have to switch. If Golurk comes in on Bastiodon, you can protect to see what move it locks itself in on and then you can either stay in if he goes for Shadow Punch or Ice Punch or switch out if he went for Earthquake or Drain Punch. Once Weezing switches in on Golurk, Weezing can just burn everything since if Golurk switches out into Cinccino, it will get burned and Weezing can stall it out. If the Golurk stays in, the Golurk won't be able to do enough damage. Therefore this duo can counter the core of Cinccino and Golurk.

    Here are some calcs.

    Show Hide
    252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap vs 252 HP/204 Def Weezing (+Def) : 42.51% - 49.7%

    252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Golurk (+Atk) Shadow Punch vs 252 HP/204 Def Weezing (+Def) : 37.13% - 44.01%

    252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/252 Def Bastiodon (+Def) : 21.91% - 25.93%
  6. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    651
    Reserve Shelgon and Eelektross

    ******************************************************

    *I used Honko's Damage Calc, as there are some small discrepancies between the different calcs*

    The Team of Shelgon and Eelektross
    [​IMG]

    Shelgon (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Dragon Claw
    - Toxic

    [​IMG]
    Eelektross (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Flamethrower
    - Grass Knot
    - Thunderbolt


    These two Pokemon can take on the opposing core. I am assuming everything has no hax (no crits >_>).

    First for Cinccino. Shelgon walls Cinccino with the combo of Wish+Protect. Also, with this spread Tail Slap fails to 2KO, which means that I can weaken Cinccino through LO recoil, while healing with Wish+Protect. In addition, if this were a real match, I can constantly switch Shelgon in, because the squirrel can only 3KO. Also, with the given EV spread, Dragon Claw 2KOs the stupid squirrel. In addition the 8 Attack EVs guarantees a 2KO on Cinccino (99.61% ~ 100%) Barring any critical hits, Shelgon wins!

    Also, Shelgon can come in on Golurk, but a CBed Ice Punch 2KOs with Stealth Rocks.

    Calc involving Shelgon (open)


    Vs [​IMG] Cinccino:

    Tail Slap: 93-111 (27.84 - 33.23%) -- 92.43% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    Dragon Claw: 127-150 (43.49 - 51.36%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Vs [​IMG] Golurk:

    Ice Punch: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Earthquake: 126-148 (37.72 - 44.31%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Dragon Claw: 102-120 (28.25 - 33.24%) -- 25.71% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock



    Now for Eelektross. He can take on Golurk, predominately, since only Shadow Punch has a chance to 2KO the Eel. On the other hand, Cinccino has a chance to OHKO with Tail Slap. So, Eelektross' job is to take on Golurk, and not Cincinno (that's Shelgon's job). Eelektross can't take an attack from Cinccino, but it can hit it on the switch-in with Volt Switch and go to Shelgon. Or just KO with Thunderbolt.

    The set is a bit changed. With Life Orb Eelektross can change moves, I usually don't like using Choice items since being locked in is bad. Its Life Orb rather than Leftovers, because Life Orb gets the OHKO on Golurk. So, even the health gained by Drain Punch is null, because Grass Knot OHKOs. The EV spread is first to maximize damage with Modest and 252 SpA. The 168 SpD EVs are to troll outspeed neutral 124 Exeggutor by a point. Which, also outspeeds CB Golurk.

    calcs with Eelektross (open)


    Vs [​IMG] Golurk:

    Shadow Punch: 226-267 (67.86 - 80.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Grass Knot: 386-456 (106.92 - 126.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Vs [​IMG] Cinccino:

    Tail Slap: 256-303 (76.87 - 90.99%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Thunderbolt: 288-340 (98.63 - 116.43%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Volt Switch: 72.26 - 85.61%





    Okay thats it. :doom:



    Edit: Gonna sound like a douche :\

    I don't think the Weezing set works.

    I think it only works when Weezing switches in on Cincinno without being damaged, and that can happen only after a Pokemon has fainted, or Volt Switch, etc. The more realistic scenario would be Weezing coming in on an attack from Cincinno. Most likely Tail Slap or U-Turn depending on the situation and stuf'.

    some calcs (open)

    *I used Honko's Damage Calc*

    Tail Slap: 141-166 (42.21 - 49.7%) -- 33.98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Sludge Bomb: 129-153 (44.17 - 52.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (however, the OP didn't say that SR was on the opposing side.)


    So here's the scenario.

    • Turn 1: Weezing comes in on Cincinno. Cincinno uses Tail Slap: 141-166 (42.21 - 49.7%) -- 33.98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Assuming minimum damage roll, Weezing has (100%-12.5%-42.21%+6.25% = ) 51.54% left.
    • Turn 2: Cincinno uses Tail Slap again, and Weezing uses Will-o-Wisp. Cincinno hits your first, because its faster. Cincinno uses Tail Slap: Tail Slap: 141-166 (42.21 - 49.7%), leaving Weezing with (51.54%-42.21%+6.25% =) 15.58%. Now here's also how the luck is, Will-o-Wisp has 75% accuracy, so there's a 1/4 chance that it'll miss Cincinno. Then in the subsequent turn Cincinno can KO Weezing. So assuming it does hit then.
    • So even if Cincinno is burned, it would still KO Weezing with Tail Slap since burn halves the damage (42.21/2~) 21%.
    • Another situation would be that Weezing uses Rest somewhere in the middle, Weezing using Sludge Bomb, or Tail Slap misses. Sludge Bomb (assuming max damage roll does 52%. Assuming that Cincinno is still fresh, in that it hasn't been hit before hand, then it will still cause some damage. Tail Slap does have 85% accuracy, but the chance of that happening compared to the Will-o-Wisp miss, and the continuous minimum damage roll is highly unlikely. If Weezing did use Rest, then its almost a sitting duck because Sleep Talk isn't the most reliable move.

    There is light at the end of the tunnel though. Weezing is an excellent counter to Golurk, since it outspeeds and can burn and the best Golurk can do it Shadow Punch, which does 124-147 (37.12 - 44.01%). And then Weezing can burn, rest and stall Golurk.

    Weezing just can't take core on together, because then again it is only one Pokemon!

    (Sorry Annoyer)
  7. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    So I had a weezing analysis ready until I refreshed my page..


    [​IMG]

    Volbeat @ Charti Berry
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SA
    Bold Nature
    Prankster

    Rain Dance
    Confuse Ray
    Tail Glow
    Baton Pass


    [​IMG]

    Ludicolo @ Life Orb
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SA/ 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    Swift Swim

    Surf
    Giga Drain
    Ice Beam
    Toxic


    Once rain is set up, there is really no stopping Ludicolo. Volbeat is the best poke to set up rain for this sweep as it has enough bulk to survive any hit from golurk after sr (Shadow Punch does max 68%) and cinccino barring rock blast (Tail Slap does 70% max). With the Charti Berry, rock blast can do 47% at most. Speed is not a requirement as with Prankster, a priority rain dance can be set up. That is all the damage Volbeat needs to do as Ludicolo can OHKO both Cinccino (134% min Surf) and Golurk (172% min Surf).
  8. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    Charti Berry only works for one of the Rock Blast hits, which means the other four hits will strike at full power. I'm not too sure on the specifics, but I'm pretty sure Volbeat will be OHKOed by Rock Blast considering Stealth Rocks are on the field.
  9. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
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    In response to Yonko7's post, both Ice Punch and Drain Punch deal 56.45 to 66.66% to Eelektross, so Golurk could be using Ice Punch since it will deal more damage to Shelgon. So I'm not sure if this duo makes an unstoppable counter

    If Golurk is on the field and is using ice punch, do you send in Shelgon, who will take 12.5% from stealth rocks as well as 45.5-53.89% from the hit? No, because he cannot take 2 hits and wish stall. So your only option is Eelektross, who will take 12.5+ 56.45-66.66% to leave you at 69%-79.16%. Now, if your opponent switches, fearing the grass knot from an unusually speedy Eelektross (probably won't happen, but it could), then the incoming lightweight Cincinno will take 14.08-16.83% while you take 10% life orb damage. So now you are at 79%-89.16%. Now, do you stay in on the Cinccino or do you switch to Shelgon? Depends on the min max damage, as there is a chance rocks will kill your Eelektross. Either way, the eelektross will die to the Cinccino if it stays in. Then, your Shelgon has to deal with a full HP Golurk if it switches in after the Eelektross death and could 2HKO. I would say it's not a great counter until the Eelektross can take better hits from the Golurk and maybe putting leftovers on it. If you put leftovers on, though, grass knot will do a max of 97.5%, thus not killing it.
  10. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    656
    Yeah, I should have said that Weezing can't switch in on Cinccino. Will be editing in Bastiodon as a partner for the core. I was just trying to make a one-poke core but I think that's impossible now that Tangela has been taken but you never know, someone may find one that works.

    EDIT : Also e-belt might be a worthwhile option on Eelektross but I don't see Eelektross countering the duo anytime soon even with Shelgon.

    EDIT #2 : Weezing can wall the duo if he comes in on Golurk though, but the other way around isn't so friendly.
  11. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    ez
    [​IMG]
    Amoonguss (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Spore
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Giga Drain
    - Synthesis


    Amoonguss completely stomps Cinccino, taking virtually 0 from Bullet Seed, and if Cinccino uses Tail Slap it deals 93% to itself (including LO recoil) and is not even close to OHKOing Tail Slap: 210-240 (48.61 - 55.55%)


    [​IMG]
    Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Aqua Jet
    - Toxic

    Alomomola hard counters Golurk, even with SR up: Earthquake: 218-256 (40.82 - 47.94%) -- 10.94% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, and that drops to 0 with Protect getting more Leftovers.

    So, here's how it plays. If Cinccino is in, go straight to Amoonguss, and it either kills itself with Tail Slap, does 0 damage with Bullet Seed, or U-Turns to Golurk. Worst case scenario it U-Turns, but simply switch to Alomomola, not get 2HKOed and set up a Wish. On the turn Alomomola has to use Protect (provided Golurk has used Earthquake), it is possible the opponent has switched back to Cinccino. If that is the case, simply Protect again and Alomomola can then live Bullet Seed: Bullet Seed: 260-300 (48.68 - 56.17%). So either way, Alomomola can set up a wish, and then switch to Amoonguss which will then beat Cinccino. If Cinccino ever used Bullet Seed while Amoonguss switches in then it can just start using Spore and Giga Drain to win. There is no concieveable way for those two to beat this core.

    OK on to the other posts. Weezing is not a full counter to the core, it cannot switch in on Cinccino. If another Pokemon that can reliably switch into Cinccino is added then sure, but currently it does not work.

    Eelektross + Shelgon does not work, since Golurk can just spam Ice Punch, 2HKO something, and just switch to Cinccino on the Grass Knot. Really not a 100% counter, since it requires you to predict correctly between choosing Grass Knot and Thunderbolt.

    As for Charti Berry, it makes Rock Blacst do: Rock Blast: 48.04 - 57.05% according to Honkos calculator, but I have no idea how accurate that is. It still comfortably lives Tail Slap, so I think Volbeat + Ludicolo is a pretty decent bet.
  12. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Yeah, when I did my calcs a cinccino rock blast did 39.52 to 46.7% with charti berry, but I'm not sure if charti berry would only work for the 1st hit (that was kinda my guess). I will test it out to see
  13. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Aye I got Swagger, Koga 87
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Foreman

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    Okay, time to upset the whole metagame with my new amazing set:

    [​IMG]
    Meganium (F) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 132 HP / 252 Def / 28 SAtk / 96 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Endure
    - Petal Dance
    - Grass Knot
    - Frenzy Plant


    Basically, Meganium survives every attack from both Golurk and Cinccino, even including Stealth Rock, while outspeeding Cinccino after a Salac boost. The three attacking moves are all it needs to successfully win a huge majority of the time, as well.


    Golurk's Choice Band Ice Punch: 248-292 (74.25 - 87.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Cinccino's Life Orb Tail Slap: 169-199 (50.59 - 59.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Once Meganium is in safely, it just has to endure a fatal attack (which isn't hard since Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Tail Slap and U-turn from Cinccino all put it in Salac Range), and begin sweeping with its incredibly powerful Overgrow-boosted Grass attacks.

    Meganium's Overgrow boosted Grass Knot against Golurk: 414 - 488 (114.68% - 135.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Meganium's Overgrow boosted Grass Knot against Cinccino: 43 - 52 (14.78% - 17.87%)

    Meganium's Overgrow boosted Petal Dance against Cinccino: 259 - 306 (89.00% - 105.15%)

    Meganium's Overgrow boosted Frenzy Plant against Cinccino: 324 - 382 (111.34% - 131.27%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Basically, if Cinccino is in already, it will have taken Life Orb damage twice (even though once is enough most of the time), which means Petal Dance will finish off both it and Golurk. If Golurk is in Grass Knot either kills it, which means Meganium can then finish Cinccino off with Frenzy Plant, or the opponent switches to Cinccino which gets hit by Grass Knot, putting it right into Petal Dance range. There is no way for the two to win in any of those scenarios.

    Now, neither the old nor new OP said anything about the Pokemon's viability in the tier (at least before Django's edit), as seen on these screenshots:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]


    Show Hide

    [​IMG]


    Show Hide

    [​IMG]


    which basically means that not counting Meganium would be unfair due to the OP not stating that there had to be any conditions concerning the counters we're allowed to post.
  14. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    As FCLC pointed out, charti berry will only afffect the first rock blast. So, with my math,

    .2*.3952+.8*.7904= 69.47%
    .2*.467+.8*.9341=83.45%

    There is about a 40% chance I will live. Not good enough. So, continuing with the rain dance strategy, I have a new poke obviously fit for the rain.

    [​IMG]

    Leafeon@ Choice Scarf
    Evs: 192 HP/ 252 D/ 64 Speed
    Impish Nature
    Leaf Guard (Of Course)

    Rain Dance
    Last Resort
    Natural Gift
    Roar


    [​IMG]

    Ludicolo@ Life Orb
    Evs: 186 HP/ 252 D/ 52 SpA/ 20 Speed
    Bold Nature
    Swift Swim

    Rain Dance
    Surf
    Giga Drain
    Ice Beam​


    Even though choice scarfed roar sounds enticing, Leafeon can switch onto any hit (58.93 to 69.59% with ice punch and 36.67 to 43.26% with tail slap) and proceed to use choice scarfed rain dance as the ev spread will outspeed cinccino. Then Ludicolo does its damage.
    However, if people realize the choice scarf leafeon and wait until the rain would end before killing it, Ludicolo does not have its rain dance. So, there are two options that will both work:
    1. Wait until the Leafeon is dead and does not have rain up (worse case scenario). Then, ludicolo can come in with the ev spread and safely set up its own rain dance (48.7 to 57.34% from shadow punch and 49.56 to 58.78% from tail slap). So at most, Ludicolo takes 71.28% with rain up. The SpA and Speed are just strong and just fast enough to outspeed cinccino and kill it with surf without cinccino's life orb damage, and even more damage with surf to golurk.
    2. Leafeon sets up rain and Ludicolo comes in on an attack. Then, it's the same damage as above, only with the rain set up by leafeon and have plenty of turns to sweep.
  15. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    512
    What better to beat an extreme offensive core than an impressive base 24 attack and special attack ? I present to you king bronzor:
    [​IMG]

    Bronzor @ Eviolite
    EV's 252Hp, 252 Def (free usless 4 EVs cause it's for the weak, and bronzor is too strong)
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Impish

    -Reflect
    -Toxic
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk

    King bronzor basicaly takes shit fuck from everything this core can throw at it. The strongest move the core can possibly hit it with is Golurk's Shadow Punch that 3HKO's on rocks at best. This gives bronzor as much time as he wants to simply toxic and sleep talk everything. Reflect support means even crits would probably not break bronzor unless the opponent got excessively lucky getting near max damage once plus a crit using shadow punch on bronzor's switch in. Unlike the 2 other one poke counters so far, this one is not weak to ice punch, meaning it has even less chances of failing since freeze hax is much less likely to happen and is not added to crit chances. (though I guess with extreme ice hax this core beats every possible poke in NU and maybe even the whole game so not sure I should really use it as an argument)

    252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Golurk Shadow Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Bronzor (+Def) : 28,62% - 33,96%)
    3-4 hits to KO

    (This is just for fun really, you can give me points if I deserve any but I'll soon enter the dreaded no wifi zone for a big 2 weeks so I might miss a few important things anyway)

    EDIT: oops forgot to put him adamant, still works but requires a bit less hax to beat

    252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Golurk (+Atk) Shadow Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Bronzor (+Def) : 31,45% - 37,11%
    3-4 hits to KO

    wit reflect on:

    252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Golurk (+Atk) Shadow Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Bronzor (+Def) : 16,04% - 18,87%
    6-7 hits to KO


    After SR, 2 max damage hits and 1 max damage hit on reflect, Bronzor has lost 99,34 % of his hp (a bit less actually because I didn't round down my numbers). He could also simply rest and prey for sleep talk to eventualy hit reflect or kill with toxic before golurk gets a crit. (if crit chances are not taken in consideration replace reflect with iron defence)
  16. Fun With Knives

    Fun With Knives

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
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    [​IMG]


    Absol@Life Orb
    Jolly Nature
    Trait: Super Luck
    4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

    Sucker Punch
    Night Slash
    Psycho Cut/Superpower
    Psycho Cut/Superpower/Magic Coat/Swords Dance


    I'm so creative.​
  17. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    512
    You have to bring a set that can actually come in on the core. Absol is defeated by nearly every possible switch-in scenario. Then you should add the calcs to prove your set can beat the core even in the worst of situations. Absol could work with any death fodder poke though.
  18. Fun With Knives

    Fun With Knives

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    Jul 14, 2012
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    Reserving Serperior and Probopass for a serious post. Can't find an online damage calculator for 5th gen, and I'm honestly not trusting my own calculations, because they say that Tail Slap would take 4 hits to kill my Serp and that's obviously bull.
  19. Majestic Electric

    Majestic Electric

    Joined:
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    228
    [​IMG]
    Gurdurr @Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    -Bulk Up
    -Mach Punch
    -Drain Punch
    -Ice Punch

    An Earthquake coming from Golurk will fail to OHKO Gurdurr, even without a boost from Bulk Up. Here is proof:

    252 Atk Choice Band Golurk (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/4 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 52.94% - 62.57% (2 hits to KO)

    If Gurdurr manages to get at +1, it will be much harder to KO (obviously). The same attack coming from Golurk will take 3 hits to KO. In addition, Ice Punch coming from a +1 Gurdurr manages to do a ton of damage:

    252 +1 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 168 HP/0 Def Golurk: 77.56% - 91.41% (2 hits to KO)

    Cinccino is in the same boat as Golurk. It's Tail Slap fails to do significant damage on Gurdurr, who can restore its health with Drain Punch and kill the chinchilla:

    252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Tail Slap vs 252 HP/4 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 9.89% - 11.5% (9-10 hits to KO)

    252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 0 HP/4 Def Cinccino: 120.62% - 142.27% (Guaranteed OHKO)
  20. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    Gurdurr will be 2HKO'ed by Golurk on the switch-in, so it cannot counter the core.
  21. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I don't think that the meganium set counters the duo. If the meganium switches in onto a tail slap, it would have taken 41.31 to 48.8% (with my calcs)+ 12.5% from stealth rocks to leave you at 53.31% to 61.3% damage taken, which does not put you in salac range, and a second tail slap will kill
  22. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    That's what Endure is for. It ensures that Meganium lives that second Tail Slap at one HP
  23. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Yeah, I wasn't sure about the mechanics of endure. But now, if Cinccino uses tail slap on Meganium when it switches in, Cinccino could freely switch into Golurk while the opposition uses endure. Now, Cinccino has only taken 10% from life orb, and the opposition knows something's up. Now it's a prediction game whether Meganium will go for the kill on the Golurk or the Golurk could switch to pp stall Endure, and then that becomes a mess. This forces the user to potentially use a move that will not always kill Cinccino, or leave it vulnerable with frenzy plant. So in my opinion, this Meganium set is not a perfect counter unless hazards are on the field first.
  24. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
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    512
    Well he could basicaly just spam grass knot when golurk is on the field. If golurk stays, he dies if golurk switches out, then cinccy will recieve small damage but comes back to the initial situation.

    EDIT: oh apparently, meganium needs overgrow to always OHKO golurk so I guess this is true. Meganium could still just spam endure many many times since it has plenty of pp and hit an attack after a random amount of turns. The chance the opponent really predicts properly is probably inferior to the chance of golurk getting a crit or a freeze. Still I guess you can say it's not a completley reliable counter
  25. BattleStar

    BattleStar

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    637
    Finally finshed mine

    [​IMG]+[​IMG]
    Misdreavous and Zangoose

    Misdreavous already is one of the most solid counters for Cinccino in RU. However it usually has trouble dealing serious damage to it with it having to rely solely on Will-O-Wisp and Pain split. I then however use another counter that is used to stop Cinccino; Rocky Helmet. Misdreavous is only 3HKOed if lucky enough for Cinccino with the Life Orb set. After just one rock blast Cinccino is already have a vast chunk of it taken out. Another thing is Misdreavous can also burn Cinccino which will let it tank its attacks even easier. If Cinccino U-Turns out it will still receive some damage and let Golurk get burned, which will cripple it. It then can Pain Split if needed and fire Shadow Balls that will hurt it. Grantred that Misdreavous can get KOed by Golurk, it is most reasonable to think Golurk will be using Shadow Punch. In which case I can provide a safe switch in to Zangoose. Golurk is already banded so it won't be able to switch attacks on Zangoose. Ergo it must either switch or be KOed. Next however is the challenge; Cinccino. If Golurk switches this can be made much easier. Cinccino will take a Night Slash which will hurt very much. After that just an Quick Attack will finish it off before it lands a hit. Then I can proceed to finish off Golurk and everything works off to a Happy end.

    However knowing that life really rarely ever has a happy end, you have to prepare for the worse. If Zangoose is the first to encounter I then would switch to Misdreavous. Most likely Cinccono will use tail slap that won't harm me. If however it uses Bullet Seed ir Rock Blast it will have a large portion of its health taken out(which then can be KOed by Zangooses Quick Attack). After that I will fire off a WoW. Cinccino will either switch to Golurk or be burned. Even if WoW misses. I can either fire again at Cinccino (whcih Misdreavous can tank many hits from and will be dead the second attack) or ftry again if Golurk switched in because I am faster. Most likely someone will be burned. After that Misdreavous is not needed and can be KOed. Thus we can have Zangoose finsih everything off.

    I did Calcs and all and its certain Zangoose can cause the damage I said and Misdreavous can tank the blows. If anything need clarfiying or a possible issue comes up I would be more than happy to address it. I am gettiong into NU more now so I find Crisis Core a great Excersice.

    Here are the sets I used for my Core Counter


    Misdreavous@Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Levitate
    252 HP/252 Def/ 4 SpAtk
    -Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    -Heal Bell


    Zangoose@Toxic Orb
    Trait: Toxic Boost
    252 Atk/252 Spe/ 4 HP
    -Protect
    -Quick Attack
    -Night Slash
    -Close Combat

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