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Crisis Core V3 [Won by Melvni]

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Sweet Jesus, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Ok so after discussing on #neverused, some of us have decided it would be fun to bring this thread back now that the meta is pretty different to what it used to be. ​
    [​IMG]
    Massive thanks to Keiran for the boss banner

    How it works

    Every 5 days or so, I will post a core that is commonly used in the current meta. The goal is to suggest a way to counter the core with one or 2 pokemon. You must then explain how your counter(s) will eliminate the core regardless of what happens (bar crits, misses and other hax forms (keep stuff reliable though, zap cannon or multiple focus blasts are very likely not to hit). This means if your counter does not counter the worst possible scenario, it is not valid. Let it be very clear that a counter must be able to come in on both pokemon of the core! For example, zangoose is not a counter to cb mold breaker sawk since it can not come in, only retalliate faster. You must include calcs in your post !

    Points will be awarded each round and the user with the most points at the time I decide to stop this will be the winner. Leaderboards will be shown in the op.

    Current point system
    -post a 2 pokemon counter = 1 points
    -post a 2 pokemon counter without death fodder = 2 points
    -post a 1 pokemon counter = 4 points
    -prove another user his counter does not counter the core = 1 point

    Points before round 4
    Show Hide
    -post a 2 pokemon counter = 2 points
    -post a 1 pokemon counter = 4 points
    -prove another user his counter does not counter the core = 1 point


    You can only post 1 set of counter(s) per core, even if your core has been proven wrong! (Don't modify your post after being proved wrong, we'll catch you). You can prove other people wrong multiple times per round. A same pokemon cannot be used by two users ! First one to post a pokemon is the only one to have the rights to use it during that round. However, if you don't have time to post now, you can reserve a maximum of 2 pokemon per round by posting so before they have been used.

    An example of what your post is expected to look like.

    The old op for those who think mine is too fun to read and feel like getting bored reading old stuff.
    Show Hide

    Introduction

    Hello NU players of the world!

    For those of you who have witnessed the debauchery that is "Counter That Pokemon" threads will know that they very quickly become PC++ games. This game is designed to be different, instead of just posting Heatran as a counter every other post we will all be attempting to counter some common(and maybe not so common) cores in the Neverused enviroment.
    In an attempt to maintain the activity from that thread while having discussion more pertinent to the metagame, we are going to start a little competition. This competition will see who can consistently demonstrate knowledge of the metagame.




    The Goal


    The object of the game is to post the best possible Pokemon that counters the duo posted by myself at the start of every round. By posting 1 or 2 Pokemon that counters the duo, we will obtain knowledge of the metagame and you will gain points. Another aspect of the game is to prevent the other players from getting points, and this is done by proving in this thread that their post does not counter the duo as well as they say it does. Without further ado, let's play



    Crisis Core

    The basic concept is that we want to discover ways to break common cores in the metagame without real difficulty. NU is balanced and a lot of cores are becoming very common and people are struggling to break them, our job is to find a way.

    Your Pokemon must be viable.

    (By popular demand, unlike what the old op suggests, ridiculous gimmicks are allowed, as long as they counter the core in every possible situation.)

    Other rules starting from round 2

    Show Hide
    1.From now on, when someone posts or reserves a pokemon, he blocks usage of the whole evolution line, not only the pokemon. (example, someone posts cradily, you can't post lileep). Multiple rotom and wormadam forms are still accepted as different pokes but not those that don't change at all like sawsbuck or basculin.

    2.Although this did not happen in the first round, I don't want this to happen in this round, so: It is not acceptable to counter the core through pp stall unless you can do so in a small amount of turns with spite or pressure on a pokemon with few pp or if your pokemon wouldn't even mind a crit + a non crit attacking move (at+6 in this case). While this rule is instored because the pp stall strategy is way too crit weak, I will continue accepting slow toxic + recovery strategys even if they too can take very long. If you have any questions about this rule, you can contact me before posting your counter.

    Leaderboards
    Show Hide

    Melvni - 17
    Punchsroom - 16
    FLCL - 13
    Don Honchkorleone - 11
    JoshuaMunoz - 11
    Gl4ss - 8
    Scorpedestroyer - 8
    shuckleking87 - 6
    starships - 6
    ium -5
    CrashingBoomBang - 5
    asagier - 5
    Annoyer - 4
    Jirachicelebimew - 4
    BossSauce - 4
    Symphonia - 2
    ADHLAS - 2
    Explorer - 2
  2. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
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    521
    First round!

    [​IMG]
    Musharna @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Moonlight

    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir @ Life Orb
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Destiny Bond

    No hazards on both side of the field.
    Happy posting :toast:
  3. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    [​IMG]
    Bronzor @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Toxic
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Flash Cannon

    gardevoir's focus blast is by far the strongest attack this core can use against bronzor, and it doesn't even come close to beating it. bronzor can switch into an attack, calm mind, and avoid the 3hko, meaning it can stall both pokemon to death with toxic. the chances that focus blast even connects three times are very low. calm mind lets bronzor survive even boosted musharna. even if it manages to grab three boosts while bronzor is sleeping, it can still only do a pitiful amount of damage.

  4. ium

    ium hundefreund
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    i actually like this one because jacob and i were discussing a certain pokemon a few weeks ago that fits perfectly here :}


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Vullaby @ Eviolite
    Ability: Overcoat
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Dark Pulse


    i'm not even going to try and tailor the set i use to make it specifically work even better for this core (hence why whirlwind is there). this is probably the best set for vullaby in general.

    basically, vullaby can come in on musharna as it sets up its first calm mind. vullaby can taunt it, then proceed to wear it down. +1 signal beam won't do significant damage even if vullaby is trying to roost; it just does around 30%.

    0SpAtk +1 Musharna (Neutral) Signal Beam vs 248HP/252SpDef Eviolite Vullaby (+SpDef): 15% - 18% (54 - 64 HP). Guaranteed 7HKO.

    on the other hand, gardevoir's main method of damaging vullaby is focus blast which is limited in pp and can only 3HKO. vullaby is slower, so roosting is generally a safe thing. vullaby can also utilize taunt to avoid any attempts at a destiny bond snipe and gardevoir will be slowly worn down just like musharna.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Gardevoir (Neutral) Focus Blast vs 248HP/252SpDef Eviolite Vullaby (+SpDef): 30% - 35% (104 - 123 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
  5. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    [​IMG]
    Mantine @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Rest
    - Toxic
    - Haze
    - Surf/Sleep Talk (doesn't matter, it's filler)

    Mantine can come in on any of Gardevoir's attacks, Toxic it and then use Rest, since you never get 3hko'd

    Same goes for Musharna, except you'll have to Haze him every now and then (musharna is pretty weak so you'll get more than enough chances to do so, as a +0 Psychic is only a 7hko
  6. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

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    Ugh. I'll do calcs later, but I do consider skuntank the biggest offensive threat.
  7. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Yes, you heard right- I reserve SHUCKLE and NOT Wormadam-S
  8. Ashley11

    Ashley11

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    Oct 7, 2011
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    [​IMG]

    Shedinja@Focus Sash
    Adamant
    252 speed 252 attack
    Shadow Sneak
    Swords Dance
    X-Scissor
    Sucker Punch

    No Rocks! Yay. Shedinja completely destroys musharna and can get around gardevoir if played right. First of all, musharna cant even touch it so if it is out first, shedinja can get a free swords dance up and kill gardevoir with shadow sneak.

    If he starts with gardevoir, its a different matter. You must use the swords dance while gardevoir either uses shadow ball or destiny bonds. If it shadow balls all you have to do is 1-hit-KO it with shadow sneak. If it DBs, you just need to SD again while it Shadow balls you and then use Shadow Sneak. Simple! ^_^

    +2 Shadow Sneak vs Gardevoir: 114.8 - 135.01% One Hit KO
  9. ium

    ium hundefreund
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    we're talking about counters here, which by definition means that they need to be able to switch in comfortably, even in the worst case scenario, and threaten the pokemon back. shedinja can't switch into gardevoir without losing its focus sash because of shadow ball, then gardevoir will be able to KO it next turn while neither sucker punch nor shadow sneak will OHKO.

    252Atk Shedinja (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 4HP/0Def Gardevoir (Neutral): 76% - 89% (212 - 250 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Shedinja (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 4HP/0Def Gardevoir (Neutral): 56% - 67% (158 - 188 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  10. Ashley11

    Ashley11

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    Honestly though I dont think I would be switching a shedinja in a gardevoir's shadow ball anyways, unless i get predicted, which COULD happen so I guess it cant really "Counter" Gardevoir. I will fix this though now. ^_^

    EDIT: Never Mind, I cant. ;_; BUT i might get a half point or something XD. Because after life orb damage, gardevoir has a 6.25% chance to OHKO. :P
  11. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Scraggy is therefore not a check if it's 2HKO by Focus blast, which has a 93.7% to kill once scraggy switches in on it, when scraggy wold have to bulk up (as the life orb damage wouldn't be enough) and the turn before scraggy could kill with crunch. Or Gardevoir could destiny bond and go for a kill for a kill.
  12. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
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    Ok, so apparently, jirachicelebimew deleted his post before you could post your answer. Since this is round 1, I'll be a merciful god (I'm sweet jesus after all) and let him post a second counter. Shuckleking87 will still get his point for proving JCM wrong.

    This being said, I've bolded some stuff up there so I suggest you read the freaking op before posting.

    Thank you

    (I have been checking this thread often and I am 100% sure jcm deleted his post before shuckleking's answer was posted)
  13. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    thanks to sweet jesus for saving me, i'll have to read the op next time e.e

    [​IMG]
    Altaria (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Roost
    - Haze
    - Dragon Pulse / Heal Bell
    - Toxic


    So this gal is a premium counter to this core, being extremely bulky on the Specially Side with max investment in SDef. Altaria takes pitiful damage from attacks that the core throws to her. Haze is pretty important because it clears out all the boosts Musharna may have got with Calm Mind. Roost + Leftovers takes away any hopes Gardevoir has of 3HKO'ing Altaria while Toxic and Life Orb recoil will wear down Gardy really fast. Since Musharna has Synchronize, Altaria will also get Toxic'ed, so you can either switch to get rid of the status with Natural Cure, or use Heal Bell over Dragon Pulse and risk being Taunted. Overall, Altaria is a great counter to the Musharna + Gardevoir core because she has reliable recovery, works as a Hazer, and has great SDef.

    Did not include any other calcs because they are irrelevant: No boosts for Musharna because you have Haze, and the 3HKO with Gardy doesn't matter when you have Roost.
  14. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

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    Dammit Shuckleking :P, don't go hogging Shuckle all to yourself, especially if you haven't yet presented a set. I've got one ready, but should I wait for you to post your set in case my idea clashes with yours or just go ahead and post mine?
  15. Symphonia

    Symphonia

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    Reserving
    both Misdreavus and Pinsir. This will be fun
  16. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    @Punchshroom
    The Crisis Core rules state that Shuckleking is allowed to reserve 2 Pokemon of his liking. Two people cannot use the same Pokemon in a core, so you're going to have to respect his reservation and take another pick.

    @JCM
    Even though it makes the Altaria set kind of unviable, this version of Crisis Core allows gimmicks and/or unviable sets so I would highly recommend making Heal Bell as the only move for slot 3. This is because Musharna forces you to Toxic it and Synchronize will kick in to Toxic Altaria back. At that point, Altaria is on a timer and will not be able to stall out Musharna + Gardevoir without Heal Bell.
  17. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

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    Even if the set is different? That's a damn shame, considering the entire point of this thread is to promote ingenuity (hence the otherwise impractical gimmicks). No matter, I'll find another way/pokemon.

    Taking a page from FLCL's book, I looked for another pokemon with a quad Psychic resist and neutrality to all the coverage moves. Obviously...
    [​IMG]
    Metang @ Eviolite
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Toxic
    - Meteor Mash
    - Rest
    - Psych Up
    ...Metang was the next best choice. In terms of special bulk, it is miniscully weaker than Bronzor (takes like 1% more), but trades it for greater offensive power and the ability to outspeed Musharna. As an additional bonus, Gardevoir cannot lower Metang's Sp.Def by virtue of Clear Body, leaving only crits as the only possible factor (or Signal Beam confusion) as the core's only hope of bypassing Metang.

    What'd I tell ya? Literally 1% less bulky than Bronzor. That last scenario is also highly unlikely to happen, considering that unlike Bronzor who has to catch up slowly, Metang can instantly copy the boosts with Psych Up and neuter the damage.

    In the event that Musharna has attained a lot of boosts and you feel a crit coming round the corner, Metang fortunately has the tools it needs to put Musharna on the backfoot. Toxic puts Musharna on a timer while being unaffected by Synchronize due to its Steel typing (much like Bronzor), and distracts it to Moonlight from time to time. The real kicker is Meteor Mash, where a boosted one can really put the pressure on Musharna if accompanied with Toxic damage, and scores a solid 2HKO on Gardevoir after taking one or two LO attacks. Toxic can circumvent Destiny Bond as well and any Psych Up boosts Metang obtained from Musharna's Calm Minds allows him to deal with Gardevoir effortlessly.
  18. skylight

    skylight the cold never bothered me anyway
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    [​IMG]

    Monferno @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Naive Nature
    - Captivate
    - Taunt
    - Sunny Day
    - Overheat

    [​IMG]

    Charizard @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Overheat
    - Fire Blast
    - Air Slash

    Okay so this is centered around Charizard! Monferno switches into everything. If it's Gardy, great, because with Focus Sash it'll die on turn two and has enough time to set up Sunny Day (due to one base point in speed higher than Gardy!) - and then Charizard can sweep the two Psychic mons. If it's Mushy it has Taunt and Captivate in case it wants to set up on it. Even with +1 Musharna Charizard can still OHKO it with Overheat and on the next turn it'll still OHKO Gardevoir too at -2! And if Mushy hasn't set up, Flamethrower (or Fire Blast) can still easily destroy them, woo you win! Also Monferno is in Blaze range with Overheat so it's a little extra but it's unnessary because it can easily get past Mushy/prevent it from getting further than +1 anyway.

    Also Mushy/Gardy get Monferno to the Sash so it'll easily survive.

    Also using PS' calc! Fire Blast is even better than Flamethrower but I didn't want to take any hax risks ~
  19. BossSauce

    BossSauce

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    [​IMG]
    Togetic @ Eviolite
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Roost
    - Heal Bell
    - Toxic
    - Psych Up

    This thing is bulky af, avoiding the 3HKO from Gardevoir's strongest move.
    This means that Togetic can switch in on any move, toxic on the second hit, then continually Roost up while toxic will whittle down and eventually take its toll on Gardevoir.

    Musharna is arguably even less of a concern as Psych Up will prevent it from gaining any ground while Heal Bell nullifies the effect of Synchronize.
    Furthermore, Togetic is slower than Gardevoir meaning it doesn't have to worry about focus miss during roosting turns while still being faster than Musharna in order to Psych Up before taking boosted hits.
  20. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    I have seen enough defensive counters here, so allow me to take it to the offense. A small problem is that Pinsir is reserved, so I have to resort to the only other physically attacking Bug that outspeeds Gardevoir. I reserve Leavanny.

    Initially I made a huge mess here, as Leavanny can't do it exactly alone since you need a set-up turn, and using a Gardevoir of my own is probably not allowed, is it (and does not work, but only after typing a long wall of text and doing multiple calculations I realized there is a workaround)?

    Edit: I think I found the solution to allow Leavanny to set up. I reserve Ledian as well.
    Leavanny @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swarm
    EV Spread: 180 Atk / 172 SDef / 160 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Light Screen
    - Synthesis
    - X-Scissor
    - Swords Dance

    Ledian @ Light Clay
    Trait: Swarm
    EV Spread: 40 HP / 252 SDef / 216 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Light Screen
    - Roost
    - U-Turn
    - Reflect (whatever, filler :P )

    The point is that Leavanny comes in on Musharna, lives a hit, sets up a screen, lives another hit, uses Synthesis or SD depending on how many hits Leavanny took, then OHKO's; it runs exactly enough EV's to OHKO Musharna after a Swords Dance as well as outspeeding Gardevoir. Leavanny does OHKO Gardevoir regardless of boosts, so if Musharna switches to Gardevoir.

    Leavanny, however, cannot come in on Gardevoir even with a pure gimmick set like this. Thus, something that sets up a Light Screen for it here would be appreciated, and that is something Ledian can do. Max EV's ensure it can come in, set up a screen, and U-Turn out if it is still alive. Leavanny takes damage from Psychic as it switches in, then OHKO's the turn after, and then proceeds to use Synthesis followed by Swords Dance to wreck Musharna.

    Calcs for Gardevoir and Musharna, WITHOUT SCREENS:

    Gardevoir:
    Musharna:
    If you consider Light Screen, you can cut the damage into half and see Leavanny can safely come in on Psychic and set up on Gardevoir behind it, and Leavanny can safely set up everything it wants to on Musharna as well, even if Musharna decides to set up.

    Well, if Mushy does just that and sets up on your switch to Leavanny, Leavanny can use Swords Dance right away. Even at +1, it should be pretty clear Musharna will not OHKO Leavanny with Signal Beam even if Screens are not up, but deal 76% at most, which means you can safely set up Swords Dance and proceed to OHKO both.

    Calcs for Leavanny (Ledian won't do any significant damage even with U-Turn)
    One final notion: The EV's are specificially tailored to outspeed Gardevoir by a small margin, and Leavanny's Attack EV's are specificially tailored to kill Musharna by a margin which is as close as possible. Remainder put in SDef, and HP, respectively.
  21. melvni

    melvni
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    Signature move spam specially defensive Vespiquen anybody?

    [​IMG]
    Vespiquen@Leftovers
    Ability-Pressure
    252HP/4Atk/252SpDef
    -Hone Claws
    -Attack Order
    -Defend Order
    -Heal Order

    Can come in on both as Gardevoir's Psychic only does 45.64% max. Defend Order means it can set up with Musharna and stop it from being able to do more than 25% at a time, while Hone Claws allows Vespiquen to set up and give itself enough power to take Musharna out. Against Gardevoir, Vespiquen can just spam Heal Order until Gardevoir uses Destiny Bond or dies to Life Orb recoil. If Gardevoir uses Destiny Bond or switches out, Vespiquen can just use Defend Order to lower the maximum Gardevoir can do to 30.52% at +1, 22.92% at +2, etc. Gardevoir has to attack, switch out, or use Destiny Bond, so it will eventually die to Life Orb recoil, give Vespiquen the opportunity to set up alongside Musharna, or give Vespiquen the opportunity to set up on it and eventually run out of Destiny Bond PP as it only has eight.

    0 SpAtk Musharna same number boosts as Vespiquen Psychic vs. 252/252+ Vespiquen - 21.22-25.29%
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Gardevoir vs 252/252+ Vespiquen - 38.66-45.64%
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Gardevoir vs +1 252/252+ Vespiquen - 25.58-30.52%
    252 SpAtk Gardevoir vs +2 252/252+ Vespiquen - 19.48-22.97%
  22. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    [​IMG]
    Frillish @ Eviolite
    Trait: Cursed Body
    252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    -Taunt
    -Recover
    -Shadow Ball
    -Psych Up

    [​IMG]
    Skuntank @ Dread Plate
    Trait: Stench
    252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Punishment
    -Crunch
    -Taunt
    -Pursuit / Torment

    So the primary switch-in to both will be Frillish, while Skuntank serves as an offensive powerhouse if Frillish is tired of stalling, as well as to grab the quick KO in case you don't copy any boosts with Frillish.

    First I'll talk about synergy. The Psychic core uses Fighting-, Bug-, Ghost- and Psychic-type moves. Between Frillish and Skuntank, they resist all of these, most notable Skuntank being able to switch in on a boosted Psychic by Musharna.

    I'll now talk about the sets, which will be explained in greater detail. Taunt on both Pokemon to prevent Musharna from setting up, as well as Destiny Bond from Gardevoir. Shadow Ball makes good use of Psych Up to potentially copy Musharna's boost and put a huge dent in Gardevoir. Recover is a great move since all attacks cannot 2HKO Frillish while Psych Up is just Psych Up, it copies boosts like a boss. Cursed Body... You'll find out later. No Toxic because Synchronize screws everything up.

    For Skuntank, I use Jolly over Adamant because I can now outspeed Gardevoir without resorting to Sucker Punch. Stench because seriously, Aftermath won't do a thing against Gardevoir and Musharna. No Sucker Punch because Crunch is 100 times more reliable. Punishment deals a fair bit of damage, KO-ing a Musharna who has Calm Minded twice and had gotten a bit of prior damage from Frillish. Dread Plate ensures that Crunch will OHKO Gardevoir, and Punishment deals more damage to Musharna. The last move is mainly filler. Pursuit if you're desperate to hit any switching Gardevoir. Torment may be gimmicky, but considering that both have only one move to hit either Skuntank or Frillish, when Tormented, Gardevoir and Musharna will be forced out if smart switching is involved.

    In depth:

    First, to counter Musharna.

    Frillish can single-handedly take on both Gardevoir and Musharna. Both of them only have one move that can actually deal with Frillish, and with Cursed Body, this ensures that soon enough, their moves will be rendered invalid (calcs below)

    Let's first consider the situation of Frillish coming in on Musharna. Taunt is great vs Musharna, because it at most can now only set up 2 Calm Minds if Frillish is coming in while it sets up. As a result, Frillish can wall it to the Distortion World and back, even when taking crits into account.. Meanwhile, Frillish takes minimal damage and the HP can be offset with Recover, assuming you Taunt Musharna and keep it at +2. After a certain amount of stalling, Cursed Body will soon activate leaving Musharna with only Signal Beam which is pathetic, thus forcing it out. Psych Up adds salt to the wound since you can simply copy Musharna's boost, and even at +6, you still wall it barring a crit. Since Cursed Body will force Musharna out to Gardevoir, Frillish can now make use of Psych Up to defeat the incoming Gardevoir, as well as dent Musharna if it switches in again, for Skuntank to finish off. (I'll post calcs later)

    Assuming Musharna attacks immediately after CM-ing, you are left against a Musharna who can only do about 30% with every Psychic. Either way, you win.

    Show Hide
    With no boost:
    0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 55-66 (17.51 - 21.01%) -- possible 5HKO

    At +1:
    +1 0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 84-99 (26.75 - 31.52%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    At +2:
    +2 0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 109-130 (34.71 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    At +2, with a crit:
    +2 0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish on a critical hit: 220-261 (70.06 - 83.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    (2 crits in a row are freaking rare)

    Skuntank's Punishment, assuming 2 Calm Minds:
    252 Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Punishment (140 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 350-414 (80.83 - 95.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Skuntank can come in on any of Musharna's moves except Signal Beam, which Musharna wouldn't even consider using against Frillish, because even at +6...

    +6 0 SpA Musharna Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 61-72 (19.42 - 22.92%) -- possible 5HKO

    +6 0 SpA Musharna Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish on a critical hit: 122-144 (38.85 - 45.85%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Not to mention that Frillish can simply Psych Up all those boosts.


    If for some reason you screw up and Musharna gets to +6, fear not. Because Musharna can only damage Frillish with Psychic, it is almost certain to do so. Thus, take advantage of this and switch to Skuntank, making an easy OHKO with Punishment.

    Now for Gardevoir. Gardevoir is slightly harder to counter because it has two ways to do damage to Frillish, but both fall below 50%, meaning that Frillish can continue stalling even if it comes in on a Shadow Ball, and unless it crits. Once you've gotten Shadow Ball disabled, you are free to switch in Skuntank because Gardevoir is sure to use Psychic. From there, it is an easy OHKO. Destiny Bond is a thing to worry about, but Frillish or Skuntank can Taunt Gardevoir and kill it.

    Even if Frillish dies to a crit, Skuntank is there and because Gardevoir is so frail on the physical side, anything but Punishment will be an OHKO.

    Show Hide
    252 SpA Life Orb Gardevoir Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 120-143 (38.21 - 45.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252 SpA Life Orb Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 99-118 (31.52 - 37.57%) -- 90.16% chance to 3HKO

    252+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 390-462 (140.28 - 166.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO



    Hope I'm not ninja'd

    Thanks Punchshroom for suggesting Shadow Ball on Frillish
  23. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

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    Your calcs say 252 Sp.Def but your Frillish has 252 Sp.Atk. Also, since you have Psych Up, why not try Shadow Ball? You can make use of the Sp.Atk boosts you copied, deal with Gardevoir easily should you defeat/force out Musharna, and have a chance to critically hit a boosted Musharna, whereas before you cannot while Musharna can.
  24. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Oh shit I typed it wrongly, it's meant to be in SpDef. It's fixed now. What you said about Shadow Ball makes sense, am I allowed to make changes based on suggestions? If so I'll put Shadow Ball there.

    Edit: I guess I'm allowed to, so I did. If not, I'll just remove it
  25. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
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    [​IMG]
    Mantyke @ Eviolite
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Amnesia
    - Toxic
    - Rest
    - Aqua Ring

    Mantyke has a very nice 120 base Special Defense and a mehish base 45 HP, and both are boosted by Eviolite. Mantyke can come into Gardevoir and Musharna and set up Amnesia. With only one Amnesia, a 4HKO Gardevoir would land on the Kite Pokemon turns into a 7HKO. Toxic so it won't be hopeless, and Rest for full recovery in exchange for a 2 turn doing nothing. Aqua Ring is for passive recovery since it lacks Leftovers.


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