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CRITS :c (peaked #2)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by ShootingStarmie, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Introduction

    Hi there, so I'm here with probably my final team for generation 5. However, this is my first UU team, which I've had quite a lot of success with. I peeked #2 on the UU current ladder, and I used this team to get both UU suspect and UU current requirements, so it's a pretty effective team. Anyway, let's get onto the team building process.

    Team Building Process
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    So I wanted to start out the team with an Arcanine, since I think it's one of the best switch in's to powerful physical hitters, like Heracross, Victini, and Darmanitan, and had reliable recovery in the form of Morning Sun.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    To support Arcanine, I would need a good switch into bulky water types, so Roserade made a ton on sense, as it easily sets up Spikes and Toxic Spikes on bulky water types like Suicune, Blastoise, and Milotic.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    My next choice was Blastoise, as it completes the Fire / Water / Grass type core and offers my Rapid Spin support and a way to phaze sweepers like SD Bisharp.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So now I need a Pokemon that can set up SR. Bronzong fit the bill perfectly, as it has awesome typing, great bulk, and helps me out vs. bulky sweepers like Togekiss.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So with all these hazards, I needed a spin blocker and something to break opposing stall teams. Sableye is obviously the best choice here, as it has the ability Prankster.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Finally, I needed a cleric and a wish passer. Umbreon is crazy bulky, and is often the MVP of the team.

    Well now that we've got that out of the way, let's take a closer look!

    A closer look

    [​IMG]
    CAT (Arcanine) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 8 SDef / 248 HP / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Morning Sun
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar

    So, Arcanine is incredibly bulky on the physical side when factoring in Intimidate. Fully invested into HP and Def allows me to easily switch into Banded Victini, Choice Scarf Heracross, and other powerful physical hitters. Flare Blitz is STAB and I don't mind the recoil too much mainly because I can just heal it off with Morning Sun, and Arcanine's other STAB options are far too weak. Morning Sun is Arcanine's form of recovery, and keeps me healthy when switching into Stealth Rock. Will-O-Wisp is used to hit incoming Pokemon like Kingdra and Qwilfish, thinking they can come in for free, and also really helps vs boosting sweepers like DD Scrafty and DD Kingdra. Finally, Roar is used to phaze Pokemon, gain momentum, and rack up residual damage on the opposing team.

    [​IMG]
    SASHA GREY (Roserade) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 SDef / 252 HP / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Rest

    So Roserade is my main source of hazards for this team, as it's using both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. They actually both help in different circumstances, as Spikes is generally more useful when my opponent is using something like Nidoqueen, but Toxic Spikes are much better in wearing down bulky sweepers like Calm Mind Raikou. It's not un-common for me to get both Spikes and Toxic Spikes up, since Roserade beats most of the spinners in the tier one on one, like Blastoise and Claydol. Giga Drain is STAB and has great consistantcy in power and accuracy, as well as offering me some recovery. Finally, Rest is used to heal off any damage from switching in, as upon switching out, Roserade is cured of Rest thanks to Natural Cure.

    [​IMG]
    TENTACRUEL (Blastoise) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Roar
    - Foresight

    So Blastoise is mainly here because it's a bulky water type that has great synergy with Arcanine and Roserade, and also supports the team in being able to Rapid Spin. So Scald is STAB and has an awesome 30% chance of burning your opponent, which can really help when facing opposing stall teams. Rapid Spin clears the field of hazards, allowing Arcanine to switch in freely without the fear of losing 25% health every time it switches in. Roar is used to phaze out dangerous threats like Calm Mind Suicune, and Swords Dance Bisharp, as well as racking up entry hazards damage. Finally, Foresight is used to hit Sableye, and other spin blockers on the switch, gaining me a ton of momentum and putting me at a huge advantage (as it allows me to Spin past Ghost types).

    [​IMG]
    WHIP MAGNET (Umbreon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Foul Play
    - Protect

    So Umbreon is super bulky on the special side when fully invested into Special Defense and HP. This is usually my "go to" Pokemon if I'm in ever need of tanking a special hit, as there are very few special attackers that can break through Umbreon without being boosted. Wish supports the team tremendously, as it heals up most of my Pokemon back up to full health thanks to Umbreon's base 95 HP stat, allowing my Blastoise to constantly spin hazards away. Heal Bell is used to support the team in case of Scald burning on Sableye, Thunderbolt paralyzing Bronzong, and Blizzard freezing Arcanine. It just in general really helps the team, and allows Sableye to easily switch into Rapid Spinners without fearing Toxic too much. Foul Play is STAB and hits Darmanitan and Victini hard on the switch, as in general wears down Pokemon as I just Wish stall. Finally, Protect is used for scouting purposes, and guarantees I get healed by Wish.

    [​IMG]
    HO SWEEPER (Bronzong) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    Bronzong is my Stealth Rock supporter, and just a general tank for the team. It's typing alone allows it to switch into a ton of threats, like Rhyperior, Flygon, and Shaymin. So Stealth Rock is used to inflict damage on my opponent every time it switches in, and keeps powerful Fire types like Chandelure at bay. Gyro Ball is STAB, and hits fast Pokemon for pretty decent damage. Toxic is very important, as it allows me to hit Zapdos and Togekiss, which are extremely threatening to this team. Finally, Earthquake is used to hit Raikou and Nidoqueen for decent damage. I made Bronzong Specially Defensive to better take on Togekiss and Zapdos.

    [​IMG]
    USSSE SABLEYE (Sableye) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 SDef / 12 Spd / 108 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Foul Play

    And finally, we have Sableye. So 12 speed EVs are used to speed creep other Sableye, which helps quite a bit when facing such a good stall breaker. Will-O-Wisp is used to burn physical attackers like Mienshao and Bisharp. Taunt is used to stop threats like Curselax from sweeping me late game, while it also offers a lot of support in that it can keep hazards off of the field, prevent status, and a lot of other things. Recover is used to keep Sableye healthy for the majory of the match, and can be used to easily stall out my opponent with burn / toxic. Finally, Foul Play is my STAB of choice, and hits Darmanitan, Victini, and other physical hitters hard on the switch.

    Conclusion

    So, there's my UU stall team. I must say, being kinda new to UU, I've felt it's an extremely fun tier to play in, but sadly this is probably the last RMT I'm going to make for gen 5 UU, as we're very close to X and Y. Anyways, shout outs to pif, Gary2346, Haylcon, and Don. Until next time, see ya!

    Importable:

    Show Hide

    CAT (Arcanine) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 8 SDef / 248 HP / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Morning Sun
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar

    SASHA GREY (Roserade) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 SDef / 252 HP / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Rest

    TENTACRUEL (Blastoise) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Roar
    - Foresight

    WHIP MAGNET (Umbreon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Foul Play
    - Protect

    HO SWEEPER (Bronzong) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    USSSE SABLEYE (Sableye) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 SDef / 12 Spd / 108 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Foul Play
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
    unfixable, MCBarrett, Laga and 12 others like this.
  2. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Okay so, I'm only going to list Pokemon that cause a pain to this team, since it usually handles everything else very well.

    Togekiss
    [​IMG]

    My god, Togekiss can out right 6-0 me if it has Heal Bell + Nasty Plot, which generally isn't a rare sight. However, even if it doesn't carry Heal Bell, the Flinch rate + para usually means I can't beat this thing. The first thing I do is Toxic it with Bronzong, and just stall it out with Umbreon while praying it doesn't have Heal Bell.

    Raikou
    [​IMG]

    Raikou really does a number on this team, as without Toxic Spikes it can easily muscle through this team if played correctly. I usually deal with it by relying on Bronzong's EQ + Toxic, or I put down Toxic Spikes as soon as possible. Played right it can destroy me.

    Zapdos
    [​IMG]

    Zapdos is immune to Toxic Spikes which makes it that much harder to deal with. Fortunately it can't set up Calm Minds like Raikou, so Umbreon can wall it if need be. I generally like to burn Zapdos with Sableye, as it makes it much easier to stall out. While Zapdos is easily to deal with, it's still very annoying to face.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  3. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    this looks like a very scary stall team

    reserved for rate (in like an hour later)


    why dont you post a screenshot of your #2 to make it more credible? :)


    __________________________
    Rate:

    okay so hilarious/pif has already outlined most of the changes that your team needs to make. I agree with the removal of Sableye -> Misdreavus, as it permits you to check more options without losing too much. For example, stuff like Togekiss and Crocune are exterminated by Perish Song, however you need to watch out for Guts Heracross as it can do a number on you with Stone Edge.


    hilarious's suggestion for a Zapdos is a great idea, and I will try to move your mons to fit that.

    Bronzong should be removed to make way for Zapdos. Zapdos can still deal with most of the threats that Bronzong faces, including Flygon, Shaymin and Rhyperior(to a lesser extent). However, now the problem is that you don't have a SR setter.

    Honestly, I would switch out Arcanine to Rhyperior. Rhyperior is very powerful, can set up SR, Roar/Dragontail, and is not weak to SR(since we have Zappy...)
    However, it does not have reliable recovery and is weak to Fighting/Heracross. Fortunately, we have an answer in Zapdos/Misdreavus so it should be okay.



    Yeah, that's about it. Whatever that hilarious didn't cover I have said here.

    Hope this helps!

    ^_^
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  4. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Eh, hey, thanks for the rate (in the future).

    Unfortunately, I don't have the print screen for #2, but I'm currently #6 right now, so hopefully that holds some weight.
  5. hilarious

    hilarious

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    if he would lie he would lie and say it was number one, I can attest he was number 2 for sure, in no small part because he rolled over my own stall team a few times.

    Full stall will always have big time and concrete weaknesses unfortunately and I don't think you listed all of them. A really big one is SD Heracross which rolls right through your team if Arcanine is weakened or even if its not weakened and there are just a lot of hazards up since Arcanine takes a buttload from +1 Stone Edge. Also Crocune is a huge pain for you to face since after +1 it can set up on Roserade as you switch in and you can hardly hope for a crit seeing as you only have 8 shots maximum if you haven't used GIga Drain at all because Pressure. Sableye kinds of stops Suicune but it does not enjoy taking +1 Scalds especially if the burn kicks in and even then the opponent can just wait around until they kill Sableye since all Sableye can do is slowly hack away at Suicune which can rest on 4/6ths of your team. Is Baton Pass a problem because I imagine it would be not difficult to play around Sableye and phazers a lot but I may be mistaken.

    I can think of a couple options for you that will also help cope with your already acknowledged weaknesses but keep in mind for stall each solution will create more problems; I want to just help you find the most solutions in exchange for the least problems.

    First of all you can actually exchange Sableye for Misdreavus, a physically bulky eviolite set with Perish Song and whatever moves you can fill in. This somewhat allieviates actually almost all your problems but only somewhat and doesn't necessarily completely solve any of them. You get another wall which is just nice in general as bulky Misdreavus is actually has defenses very similar to Umbreon without the Leftovers. Misdreavus with Perish Song can tank hits from Togekiss and outspeed and force her out with Perish Song if Togekiss doesn't run significant speed. If she does run speed you are in trouble and have to hope against hope for no flinches. Misdreavus can also force Heracross out but it will get 2HKOd much of the time from boosted Stone Edges so you have to use Pain Split to avoid a quick death and if gets very foggy as to who wins the match up but almost invariably Heracross will be forced out and you can try to attempt a spin by the time it comes back in so Arcanine can better deal with Heracross. Misdreavus most concretely deals with Crocune who does very little to her even after a boost or too and Perish Song puts a timer on Suicune as opposed to just Taunting her. Perish Song in general is a great utility move against Baton Pass but you have problems with Mr. Mime.

    If you do switch out Sableye then you are losing some utility already instantly. You have no very good Sableye counter yourself although Arcanine and Roserade can deal with Sableye pretty well and you can tactically try to Synchronize a burn if need be. You also lose a priority burn and therefore become significantly weaker to Virizion and Cobalion, especially Substitute versions of them. I am not sure if you should ultimately change the ghosts for each other but I would advise you to at least test it.

    My second recommendation is to fit Zapdos on your team somewhere. It may seem odd to add a Pokemon with little utility on a stall team but you have two things going for Zapdos, the fact that it beats almost everything you are weak to invariably and the fact that you may still retain some utility with Roar. With lots of speed (you probably want enough to beat base 90s or 95s) and max HP and the rest in SpA Zapdos can easily kill Togekiss (if it has Thunderwave you may lose the match up but then it cannot have Heal Bell so you can use Bronzong) and Heracross (use HP Flying) and almost invariably kill Suicune (even if you cannot beat her because the CM you can use Roar in the worst case scenario when she Rests). BU Scrafty which is somewhat of a threat to your team I think also usually but not always loses to Zapdos. Zapdos can also do a bit of damage to Specs Chandelure which you are quite weak to before dying, getting a KO if Chandelure had to switch in SR twice.

    The only reason I hesistate slightly to recommend Zapdos is because I am not sure of what to replace with him. If you replace Arcanine then you lose your only true physical wall and become incredibly weak to things you shouldn't be like Rhyperior. If you replace Roserade you are losing most of your hazards. SR is too necessary to replace Bronzong. Umbreon's utility is far too great to be replaced. Sableye is your spinblocker but I can almost imagine it being replaced although this would give you a huge disadvantage to opposing stall. Blastoise is almost completely necessary as a spinner and your best Rhyperior response if Arcanine didn't already burn him. Adding Zapdos on your team therefore may mean you have to switch multiple Pokemon and I'm not sure how to deal with that.

    Anyways

    Sableye--> Physically Defensive Misdreavus with Perish Song
    xxx---> Utility Counter Zapdos with Roar

    If you ever test these out tell me what you think and I can give more advice on what to do with Zapdos maybe if you want it.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
    ShootingStarmie likes this.
  6. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I can vouch for his #2 rank as well. ShootinStarmie, I would rate this team, but you know the flaws of it better than anyone (certainly better than me). I already suggested to use Rhyperior over Bronzong to you a while ago, but you are already very aware of that possibility, so writing a full rate just to say that is pretty useless. I want to suggest using Rhyperior and Zapdos, but I don't know where you would put it :/ I think as far as UU stall teams go, this is incredibly solid, and your ranking just goes to show how good it really is. Congrats you fucking Psychic-type hacker <3
    Jaiho likes this.
  7. Ajwf

    Ajwf

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    As this team relies on a lot more of a stall tactic, I see two inherent problems (not being a UU devotee, I'm more of a stall guru)

    First, sableye is inherently frail. Over misdrevious, as hilarious has suggested, I suggest cofagrigus or dusclops, but probably cofagrigus.


    Machamp?!? (Cofagrigus) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Haze
    - Shadow Ball
    - Rest

    By far my favorite set, it fits right into your team because you run umbreon's heal bell (in difference from my shaymin aromatherapy). This set is beautiful for neutralizing any physical threat to complete nothing by burning, removing boosts and removing ability. Has a great stab move and rest gives it many times the life it would generally have.This is also because looking at your walls, you run three special and one physical. Granted, zong is kind of an 'either or' even with full Special D investment, but a dedicated special wall to assist blastoise can be nice. Especially one that can take the occasional electrivire.

    On roselia, UU from what I remember is very fast and rather levitate oriented. Instead of toxic spiking, use hp ice. This may seem odd, but I actually changed this set from Meru's stall team to carry aromatherapy over toxic spikes. They just aren't terribly effective, especially against your threats. Considering your threats, hp ice is way more potent.
  8. Patrick1088

    Patrick1088

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    This team reeks of stall. Its def hard to break through but the main issue i have is that it has 0 offensive pressure. You dont even have a cleanup sweeper that likes having rapid spin support wish support and hazards on the opponents field. On that note i have a few suggestions...
    Im going to mention my concerns first and will suggest changes after...

    1. Ive always like the concept of defensive arcanine. Intimidate plus wow and morning sun is good, in theory. However sr weakness and not so useful resist to bug grass fire and ice.
    2. I prefer synthesis over rest on roserade sincd rest does lead you to become setup bait. Personal preference though. I dont see the point if t spikes when poison types are fairly common in uu ie nidos roserade qwilfish. I think youre better off with sludge bomb over t spikes.
    3. Blastoise is what blastoise does. None of your pokes are really sr weak. You have a t spikes absorber. You have a physical wall in arcanine. His only real purpose i guess is to spin.
    4. Unbreon is good no complaints.
    5. I dont see the point of zong to be honest. It sets up stealth rock and doesnt do much. If it gets paralyzed (likely considering youll be setting up rockz) togekiss wikk have fun this team ( as you are aware).
    6. Sableye is spin blocker who does a good job.
    On that note i think you can compress your team a bit. I think you have the ability to put 1 poke who can do multiple things. For example. I think that arcanine can def go. The will o wisp conflicts with the t spikes. Im sure youd rather have a burned rhyperior than a poisoned one. As far as a physical wall i believe qwilfish over rk9 it 100% stops hera and darm (barring eq which wont ohko after intimidate). You only have to fear zen headbutt and bolt from tini which umbreon can take easiky afyer an intimdatd boost. Qwilfish can also set up spikes making it easier for on roserade. Without spikes your team suffers. Putting either t zpikes or spikes on qwilgizh frees up a move on roserade for possibly sleep powder on zapdos or togekisz?

    Since you are a stall team a second spinblocker iz necessary. I recommend golurk over zong. Golurk can set up sr. Demolish zapdos and togekiss with a no guard stone edge. Smack raikou with eq. And it can inflict confusion with dynamic punch. It has great bulk which goes great with umbreon.
    The only other poke that can be played around with is blastoise. Idk who you woulx want but a sweeper would greatly benefit this team. Scarf poke perhaps? Like mienshao (who has regenerator), hera (who loves weakened teamz) or even choice band crobat who can absorb sleep which is important since you need most of you members to function.

    Also do you have replays of your team?
  9. col49

    col49 what.
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    I didn't know that know anybody needed so much verification this is a stall team lol.

    Anywho, being somebody else who's been playing a pretty large amount of UU stall recently, I feel I just barely have the knowledge to comment on this (since I can't compare to players like pif on terms of tier experience at all lol). A change I would consider tinkering with would be Zapdos > Arcanine and Rhyperior > Bronzong. As pif details, Zapdos really helps buffer your team (and stall in general) out against threats such as SD Hera, Kiss, and so forth, while retaining a decent amount of similar defensive functions as Arcanine. Also, if you're as hax-paranoid as me, te ability to Pressure stall Shaymin out of its PP faster is a plus too (not so much an issue w/'Zong, but I'm suggesting something else :> ). I tend to run a spread of 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spe Timid (outpacing Adamant Hera and everything below, nobody uses Jolly) w/TBolt / HP Flying / Roar / Roost, but you can experiment as you see fit. The Rhyperior suggestion comes from a few places. For one, with Arcanine gone, Blastoise is your sole Fire resist, and relying solely on your spinner to check something as commonplace as Fire-types is just begging for trouble imo. Rhyperior has the added benefit of checking non HP grass Electrics nicely too, so that's nice. Lastly, and maybe this is just me, but having an SR setter that can push through Xatu is really nice for stall, since it makes whittling it down a ton easier, and helps you get lasting Spikes up sooner. Standard tank set is decent from what I've noticed, though it might be worth tinkering w/protect > DTail, because having protect utility on a 'mon that baits a nice sum of choice users is pretty chill. This change would make focus blast nidoqueen / king pretty threatening though, so take of that what you will. Pif's Missy suggestion might mitigate that decently, so take of that what you will haha. Regardless, very cool stuff, 'grats bro n_n

    edit: wow, just noticed I just reiterated most of metal sonic's point, I need to learn imo '-'
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
  10. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

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    I haven't read anyone else's rates so if I repeat stuff, just ignore it.
    EDIT: I changed my whole rate b/c col49 brought up a great point and im an idiot.

    Pert>Stoise can check non-Hp grass elec type, and still phaze out the same threats (bisharp).
    Hitmontop>arc gives you a spinner again, which can get foresight, and it still has intimidate; meaning you can pivot into cross, etc if needed.
    Spdef Zap>Zong still gives you a shaymin switch in while giving you a great check to togekiss and another roar user to phaze crocune and curselax. You don't lose your rhyp switch in as you have top and pert now but your team does struggle more against Choice band Flygon. It was still a problem before because fire punch 2hkos zong but it requires good prediction to do so and it is now locked into a non stab 75 bp move. I hope this helps!
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  11. col49

    col49 what.
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    ^ Just wanted to point out that Inner Focus Umbreon still gets set up on by Togekiss, and in turn 2HKoed comfortably by a +6 Air Slash =( Plus synchronize is nice for pressuring stuff like stall-breaker mew and opposing sableye, since otherwise he has to rely pretty heavily on scald burns to grab chip damage on them
  12. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Hi guys. Just wanna say a big thank you to everyone who has rated this team or liked it / used the team. I think all of the rates bring up valid points, and they've given me a lot of ideas to experiment with. I think I'm done with this team for now, mainly because X/Y is just around the corner. Feel free to use this team as you please, and thanks for all the comments.

    Peace
    Kingler12345 likes this.

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