1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokémon Crobat

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Aubade, Oct 30, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Aubade

    Aubade

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    [​IMG]
    Crobat
    #169
    Poison/Flying
    85 HP / 90 Atk / 80 Def / 70 SAtk / 80 SDef / 130 Spd
    Ability: Inner Focus
    Hidden Ability: Infiltrator

    Moves can be found in the research thread (link), though asides from gaining Confide Crobat's moves seem unchanged from last gen.

    Analysis

    Crobat has always been great in UU, and even too good to be in UU while never quite rising above it. While its move pool seems to have remained the same this gen (possible new egg moves notwithstanding) the buffs it has gained are amazing for it. Crobat had a great defensive typing last gen, and the new resistance to fairy (as well as super effective stab) just makes that even better. The new Infiltrator allows Crobat to function as a stallbreaker even better than before, while Inner Focus remains a decent alternative - though now overshadowed by Infiltrator outside of doubles. Assault Vest is an interesting new item for Crobat - While unlike some other users it sorely misses having another item and use of its status moves, the effect Assault Vest has on Crobat's durability is even more noticeable than it is on other pokemon. Crobat also has great synergy with the two new berries, giving it a Def or SDef boost on switch in (providing you can predict) and allowing it to fire off base 110 acrobatics afterwards.

    Potential Sets

    Stallbreaker (Crobat) @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP (252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP)
    Jolly/Timid Nature
    - Brave Bird/Heat Wave
    - Cross Poison/Sludge Bomb/Super Fang
    - Roost
    - Haze/Taunt/Toxic


    So, Cross Poison now hits Fairy super effectively, as well as grass (who have been buffed a lot this gen). Along with Brave Bird it gives neutral coverage against everything but Rock and Steel. Heat Wave and Sludge is an alternative to both Brave Bird and Cross Poison, giving Crobat a way to hit steel types and take them out (In which case, you run special EVs instead). While the physical set is more powerful, the special set lets Crobat fight toe to toe with steel types in OU. (Another possibility is mixed with Brave Bird and Heat Wave). The only reason I'm putting a special set aside is because of the reduced power + assault vest Pokemon most likely making it a liability above anything else.

    Haze is preferable to Taunt with the new Infiltrator buff, offering a way to neutralize pokemon like Contrary Malamar, anything running Power-up punch or Charge Beam and any Baton Pass chains to name a few things. Taunt is still a solid option however, and Toxic can help get past some extremely tanky pokemon that would still be able to wall Crobat otherwise. Super Fang is useful for this reason as well.

    Assault (Crobat) @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
    Gentle/Hardy Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Heat Wave
    - U-turn


    Not really sure what to say about this set. I've been running it for a while, and while it certainly needs some improvement - possibly changing EVs to invest into HP or Atk rather than Spd in this case - the main reason you would use this set is because it allows Crobat to win fights against pokemon that would have otherwise killed it by ohkoing you after your first attack brings then down to half, 2hkoing you after your second attack etc. While this certainly doesn't seem great, its another boon that lets Crobat perform better in OU than he did last gen. If you run this set (or any Assault set), I suggest running it alongside a Wisher as Crobat will have no other means of recovery.

    BerryBat (Crobat) @ Maranga Berry/Kee Berry
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Hasty/Hardy Nature
    - Sludge Bomb/Heat Wave
    - Acrobatics/Cross Poison
    - Roost
    - Taunt/Haze


    The idea behind this set is simple enough. Switch into a physical or special attack (preferably one of the 4x resisted ones) and enjoy a significant boost to your stats. Maranga Berry is a little better than Assault Vest as you can still use status moves, but is only one use. Kee Berry is the same. As with the Assault Vest set, the EV spread could probably be a lot better, and Spd and HP could be switched for pretty much anything else depending on what you're running. I'm sure once the OU metagame stabilizes one build will obviously be better than another because it checks threats in the metagame, but I don't want to speculate on what will/won't be a threat in the meta and am running EVs based entirely on what my team is lacking, and what compliments it.

    Crobat's possible place in the metagame
    Crobat is extremely versatile (asides from its rather limited movepool) making it a fairly difficult opponent to predict. Remember, base 130 speed stat makes it as fast as Jolteon in OU (And Mega Gengar), meaning it checks pretty much anything in the tier that isn't scarfed or speed boosted in some way. However, unlike the rest Crobat flies right over sticky web. Its also the best Infiltrator user out of all possible users (while competing with Noivern). Crobat has great synergy with teams that stack entry hazards, as its speed combined with its decent defenses allows it to sweep through teams and take hits from priority attacks or tanks if needed.

    (Posted on the justification that this couldn't really all be posted in the Infiltrator thread. A lot of things are giving Crobat the chance to make an impact on the metagame, not just Infiltrator. As an aside, I've heard it gets new egg moves and while I'm avoiding speculation until its *proven* pretty much any move Crobat gets could be game changing considering its poor movepool.)
  2. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    While Crobat is great, it now has a new rival in the form of Noivern, which is more geared towards special attacking, also gets access to Infiltrator, has a fantastic defensive typing with plenty of resistances, and gets Frisk, which improves it's abilities as a scout.

    What are the differences?

    And also, Crobat didn't really get much of a buff, so this thread should be in the Old Mons General Discussion.

    I noticed your low postcount, so welcome to Smogon!
  3. Bribery

    Bribery

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    341
    You didn't mention one of Crobat's best selling points this generation: Defog. Crobat is one of the most viable users of Defog thanks to its high speed and excellent typing. While Pokebank is unavailable, Crobat is arguably the best Defog user.

    Crobat @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Defog
    - Roost
    - U-turn / Hypnosis / Taunt / Toxic

    Hypnosis works well with Defog since it reduces the target's evasion, making it more accurate.
  4. Aubade

    Aubade

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    As a response to Psylink:

    Noivern's typing also lands it with 2 more weaknesses than Crobat while they both have the same number of resistances.
    Crobat has access to Haze, arguably one of the best status moves in the game if not rather underused due to being situational (did I mention it will also negate stat reductions on Crobat if needed). It also gets Mean Look and Defog, though those move isn't really worth mentioning, I suppose Defog is more useful now than before.
    Crobat is much more capable of running mixed or physical sets than Noivern is (It gets Brave Bird, Cross Poison, etc. while Noivern's physical movepool is pretty much limited to Dragon Claw and U-Turn). This may be even more important considering the nerfs to special moves and addition of Assault Vest it could be enough of a reason to pick Crobat over Noivern.
    Crobat also has a slightly higher base speed. It isn't that important, but it lets it play against Mega Gengar and outspeed scarf users in the 80-90 range.
  5. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    Crobat does have some amazing traits, but I'm merely saying he has competition in OU. I know of his usefulness both ingame and in UU.

    Everything but Stallbreaker is a gimmick imo
  6. Mugenman88

    Mugenman88

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    157
    I just love Crobat because it's such a pest in every way. You can't set up on it because of base 130 speed, taunt, infiltrator, and toxic. It's really hard to trap as well because of it's insanely fast U-turn. It's even a pain to wall thanks to super fang and toxic. Anyways...

    So far this set have been causing some rage in wi-fi, and I'm proud of it.
    Crobat @ Black Sludge
    Infiltrator
    Jolly
    176 HP / 80 Def/ 252 Spe (a bit rough on EVs but it gets the job done)
    ~Super Fang
    ~Taunt
    ~U-Turn
    ~Toxic
    His goal is simple, force the set up pokes out, weaken the switch in with super fang or status, then U-turn out to next appropriate counter. Sorry if the set seems noobish but I'm new here. Also I DO know he may have a little trouble finishing pokes off, but that's not what I built him to do.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  7. Seb125

    Seb125

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    45
    Yeah this is the set I have been using for Crobat and i gotta say, I love it. I do prefer taunt over his last option tho as it completely stops Smeargle leads and Breloom from sporing you. Infiltrator with Brave Bird works so well considering some of the most popular users of Substitute I have seen are also grass types. To name some, Breloom, Whimsicott, Trevenant, and Gourgeist. However I do think his primary role is utility and I like a more defensive EV spread. Brave Birds high base power is enough to make leave dents in other Pokemon.

    Crobat @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Infiltrator
    252HP/4Atk/252Spe
    Jolly Nature
    Brave Bird
    Defog
    Roost
    Taunt
    LieutenantSharpedo likes this.
  8. Bravadorado

    Bravadorado

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    229
    The other Crobat thread was deleted previously so I'm not so sure making a new one is a good idea. I love Brobat but he doesn't get anything really dramatic or meta changing, just some very nice QoL improvements. There isn't really much to discuss about him since he retains his old functions as a stallbreaker, only now has the options to carry hypnosis and defog and bypass subs.

    I suppose we could talk about good core teams for him, since there are a lot of new potential partners, but that might be better discussed in the cores thread here.
  9. Hrothgar

    Hrothgar

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    351
    I've been trying to come up with a decent set for awhile now but its been awhile since ive seen 4mss this strong. I feel like he absolutely needs brave bird, cross poison, u-turn, roost, defog, and taunt. Removing one of these moves feels impossible, let alone two.
  10. DouglasFalcon

    DouglasFalcon

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    Yeah, a poison stab isn't still really needed, unless you desperately need something that can kill a fairy, or if you're trying some weird Choice Band set lol
  11. Zé Capáu

    Zé Capáu

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    Crobat and Noivern seem to have the same bulk and Speed, Crobat goes more for Atk while Noivern goes more for SpA.
  12. Bravadorado

    Bravadorado

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    229
    Cross poison isn't needed. Also, Crobat is arguably one of the weaker users of Defog since he can't really set up his own hazards (Namely SW/SR) and he takes a SE hit from SR on the switch in. Better to use traditional Brobat with Bravebird/Taunt/Roost/Uturn or Super Fang or Toxic in my opinion. Leave the Defogging to someone like Empoleon, Skarmory, Scizor, etc.

    Of course Crobat is the only good user right now, so you might make a set like Defog/Roost/Bravebird/Taunt
    Crobat has better defensive typing and movepool iirc.
  13. Private Affair

    Private Affair

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    61
    I love Crobat in OU. This is the set I currently use

    Crobat @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Inner Focus (couldn't find an Infiltrator one)
    252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    ~ Brave Bird
    ~ Defog
    ~ Taunt/Roost
    ~ U-Turn

    Crobat's versatility has now been increased with the buff of Defog. He acts as a scout/phaser/supporter/revenge killer. It's all thanks to his blazing speed and great defensive typing. He suffers from a 4 slot syndrome, in my opinion, with the introduction of Defog. The main point of me running Crobat is because of his base 130 Speed that will almost ensure all entry hazards off of the field. The problem with him running Roost now is that I do not see any beneficial use to it. When would I ever want to possibly use the move Roost unless I am Toxic stalling? Taunt is the all around better move because of his speed and because he has no answers to things that can setup in his face. So for the time now, I will remain using Taunt/U-Turn as it will cripple support/setup Pokemon and give me switch initiative.
  14. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,978
    Um, what?

    Crobat
    Weaknesses: Electric, Rock, Ice, Psychic
    Resistances: Fighting (x4), Bug (x4), Grass (x4), Poison, Fairy
    Immunities: Ground

    Noivern
    Weaknesses: Ice (x4), Rock, Dragon, Fairy
    Resistances: Grass (x4), Fighting, Bug, Fire, Water
    Immunities: Ground

    Noivern has a 4x weakness and fewer 4x resistances, but overall, their total numbers of weaknesses and resistances are identical.
  15. Lord Jesseus

    Lord Jesseus

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,030
    I think the only thing to hold Crobat back might be that he can't run all of his moves at once. He's got so many good ones: Haze, Taunt, Defog, Roost, U-Turn, Super Fang, Brave Bird, Hypnosis, even Cross Poison if you really need a Poison STAB. But he can only run 4...
    That said, it makes him unpredictable since you never know what he's going to do.
  16. MCG93

    MCG93

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    287
    Defog still lowers evasion, so defog -> hypnosis could be a viable combo.

    I think Crobat's best set will be Choice Band with Brave Bird to get as much damage as possible on Pokemon hiding behind subs. Fighting type Sub punch mons are outright destroyed by this set, as Crobat can comfortably switch in to focus punch (x4 resistance ftw). Subseeders are also destroyed by this set. Other Pokemon that abuse Sub are super glass cannons that are good at forcing things out (Gengar and Alakazam), and those won't be surviving a band brave bird anytime soon. So Bandbat's main use will be to counter the aforementioned Pokemon. What's more, Crobat also gets pursuit as an egg move, so it can catch the aforementioned glass cannons on the switch. Overall, however, I think Crobat's niche is far too specialized for it to work well. If the metagame becomes swarmed by Pokemon like the above, it might become OU by virtue of the metagame (ala Gastrodon in Gen V).
  17. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    917
    I actually have been using an EV spread of 252 Atk / 200 Spe / 58 HP on my Stallbreaker set, with Jolly. It's a useful spread, the EVs let it have a little bulk while still outpacing Greninja and Noivern though you do lose out on Mega Gengar. Figured I'd share this just cause, it still outruns most of its primary targets, and most pokes that do Speed Tie with a fully invested base 130 speed can often do huge damage to Crobat especially if the tie isn't in your favor
    OldSchoolNub likes this.
  18. Chestnut

    Chestnut

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    What would be good things to go along with Crobat in a team?
  19. L0calLEGEND

    L0calLEGEND

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Probably things that have good synergy with crobat, like maybe metagross for a psychic resist or magnezone to take specs ice beams and thunderbolts and trap steel types that resist crobat's Stabs.
  20. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Festive Dawg
    is an Artist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,053
    Like I said on the last crobat topic, once pokebank is open, a nasty plot set does wonders on its common steel counters since you can use a powerful heatwave, giga drain, sludge wave, or air slash.
  21. L0calLEGEND

    L0calLEGEND

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    It sounds like heatran still walls it hard. Maybe opt out giga drain for HP ground for heatran and electric types maybe, or is the giga drain specifically for something?
  22. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    I feel like most people will just stick with NP / Sludge Wave / Heat Wave / [Air Slash / Giga Drain]. Sludge Wave does a number on pretty much every Electric-type except, uh, Rotom-notA (nobody uses), Magnezone (Heat Wave), and Stunfisk (heh). Running HP Ground just to hit Heatran and, uh, Aggron? seems like a waste of a slot compared to Sludge Wave's strong STAB and Fairy coverage, Air Slash's secondary STAB and coverage against Fighting-types, Heat Wave hitting Steel-types, and Giga Drain hitting Rock-types.

    Giga Drain doesn't seem very useful, as Tyranitar can tank it even at +2

    +2 252 SpA Crobat Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 146-174 (42.81 - 51.02%) -- 3.91% chance to 2HKO
    +2 252 SpA Crobat Giga Drain vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 146-174 (37.82 - 45.07%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +2 252 SpA Crobat Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 106-126 (26.23 - 31.18%) -- possible 4HKO

    and OHKO with Stone Edge, while Aerodactyl(-M), Shuckle, and Tyrantrum are neutral, Terrakion doesn't care,

    +2 252 SpA Crobat Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 178-211 (54.93 - 65.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252 SpA Crobat Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 238-282 (73.45 - 87.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    and Barbaracle...ok, it hits Barbaracle.

    Hidden Power Ground doesn't seem very useful, as it doesn't really hit anything worthwhile in OU harder than Giga Drain or Heat Wave except, what, Heatran, Aggron(???), and Magnezone (OHKO'd anyway).

    +2 252 SpA Crobat Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 316-374 (112.45 - 133.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    So yeah. Probably just STABs + Heat Wave, and run something else to kill Heatran.
  23. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Festive Dawg
    is an Artist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,053
    yea true heatran would wall it but heatrans would wall all crobats regardless you know.
  24. Private Affair

    Private Affair

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    61
    Why are you guys trying to make Crobat something that he's not? He's a great support Pokemon. Let him excel at what he does best; support. He is the fastest Pokemon with access to Defog. That alone will have people play him more coupled with the good defensive moves he has that can support a team.
  25. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    Pokemon can only do one thing? Crobat is the fastest user of Nasty Plot in the game, STAB Sludge Wave is useful with Fairies running around, and +2 Heat Wave wrecks non-Heatran Steels that expect the standard Taunt / Brave Bird / Roost / [U-Turn / Poison Jab]. It's surely not going to be the most ubiquitous Crobat set, but worthless to the point that it isn't worth discussing?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)