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Cyclohm Analysis Workshop

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Magmortified, Jun 8, 2009.

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  1. Magmortified

    Magmortified <b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
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    Everything's open to revision.

    Do NOT post a set for the analysis unless you have EXTENSIVELY tested it. Also be sure what you're posting is analysis material. If you aren't sure on either of them, don't post it.

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb + 3 Attacks
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Hydro Pump
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    ability: Shield Dust / Static
    evs: 200 HP /
    56 SAtk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Cyclohm's bulk, Speed, and type coverage work well together on this set. The 200 EVs invested in HP allow Cyclohm to reach an HP stat of 407, an excellent number for Life Orb since the recoil damage is rounded down, as well as allowing Cyclohm to better take various hits. On the other hand, the 252 Speed EVs allow Cyclohm to outspeed Adamant Lucario, and let Cyclohm speed tie with max Speed Mamoswine. The rest of the EVs go into Special Attack, which, though not receiving the heavy investment given to HP and Speed, is still enough to deal plenty of damage. Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, and Hydro Pump provide Cyclohm with excellent neutral coverage, allowing Cyclohm to keep itself healthy by packing Slack Off as well.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Scizor and Life Orb Cyclohm make for an excellent combination. Scizor's Bullet Punch can eliminate the various revenge killers that plague Cyclohm, while Superpower can take out Blissey in a heartbeat. In return, Cyclohm can simply punch through most Scizor counters, which makes it a good candidate to U-Turn into. Additionally, Cyclohm's Dragon typing can easily take Fire moves aimed at Scizor, while Scizor can cover Cyclohm's Dragon and Ice weaknesses. Cyclohm can also work well with Rain support
    (in which case, you should use Thunder instead of Thunderbolt), which increases Thunder's accuracy and gives either Hydro Pump or Surf a pseudo-STAB.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SpecsOhm
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 4: Flamethrower
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest
    ability: Shield Dust / Static
    evs: 64 HP /
    252 SAtk / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]


    <p>This set aims to hit as hard as possible with Cyclohm's powerful attacks and a reasonably strong 112 base Special Attack.
    A Choice Specs Draco Meteor is absolutely ruinous, with the other attacks providing strong coverage against Pokemon that resist Dragon-type moves. Thunderbolt provides a strong backup STAB, and precious few Pokemon resist the combination of it and Draco Meteor. Hydro Pump quickly demolishes various Ground and Fire types, and, with Cyclohm's strength backing it, can 2HKO even Specially Defensive Tyranitar with Stealth Rock up; Surf is also a workable Water move, if accuracy is preferred. Flamethrower rounds off the set by demolishing most Steel types. 192 EVs in Speed allow Cyclohm to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar and anything slower, Special Attack has been maxed out, and the rest of the EVs go into HP to pad Cyclohm's defenses.</p>

    <p>This set works especially well with Dugtrio or a strong Pursuiter, which help to eliminate Blissey - the only Pokemon that can truly hope to wall this set. With Blissey out of the picture, the only way to safely switch into Cyclohm is extremely careful prediction, which is difficult thanks to Cyclohm's impressive neutral coverage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulklohm
    move 1: Discharge
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Shield Dust / Static
    evs: 212 HP /
    56 SAtk / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]


    <p>What Cyclohm lacks in physical resistances, it manages to compensate for with a strong defense and enough offensive muscle to make the retaliation hurt. Boasting a Defense equivalent to Hippowdon, Cyclohm can shrug off most unboosted neutral hits. It can then hit back with amazing neutral type coverage and a respectable 112 base Special Attack to back it up.</p>

    <p>Discharge, and Dragon Pulse function as more conservative choices for a more conservative Cyclohm. While Cyclohm can just as well utilize Draco Meteor or Thunderbolt to help close the gap between it and more offensive sets, Cyclohm can still deal plenty of damage using Discharge or Dragon Pulse to make good use of the chance for paralysis from Discharge
    (especially in combination with Static) and avoiding the Special Attack drop Draco Meteor incurs. Flamethrower helps Cyclohm to better deal with Steel-types, such as Metagross or Jirachi, with its reduced power.</p>

    <p>The EVs provided allow Cyclohm a generous helping of HP, while giving it the Speed to outrun quite a few Pokemon; Adamant Lucario and Pokemon one point faster than it, notably. Though, if desired, more EVs can be funneled into Defense from Speed or Special Attack.</p>

    <p>Using Discharge in combination with Static can result in paralyzing your opponent fairly often; this can be useful when used with hard hitters such as Mamoswine or Metagoss, which frequently suffer from their lack of Speed. Additionally, Cyclohm can quickly wear down opposing Pokemon with its attacks, making it easier for the hard hitters to sweep.</p>

    [Shield Dust or Static?]

    <p>Cyclohm has been granted two very useful abilities to choose from; Shield Dust and Static. Both of these abilities are very useful in their own way, and each of them help Cyclohm differently. With this in mind, it may be quite difficult deciding which ability to use. Each of these abilities serve for different purposes, and the paragraphs below will explain both of the abilities in more detail.</p>

    <p>As you may or may not know, Shield Dust prevents the use of secondary effects from a move to activate. This means that moves such as Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam coming from a Pokemon can no longer burn, paralyze, or freeze the Pokemon with the Shield Dust ability. This ability allows Cyclohm to come in on many hax-based threats such as Jirachi, Machamp, and Togekiss. With this being said, Cyclohm makes great switch-ins to these Pokemon since it won’t be flinched and paralyzed by Iron Head and Body Slam from Jirachi or flinched by Air Slash from Togekiss, and it can’t become confused by Machamp’s DynamicPunch, all of which can be hit hard with Flamethrower and Thunderbolt respectively.</p>

    <p>On the other hand, Cyclohm can use Static to its advantage with its enormous physical bulk. Dangerous physically-based threats such as Gyarados, Lucario, and Flygon will have to think twice before attacking you, since they have a 30% chance of being crippled with paralysis. Static can be really helpful in cases where the opponent has boosted their physical sweeper’s Speed with a Choice Scarf or using a Speed-boosting move, which allows you to switch in a Pokemon to revenge-kill the crippled threat.</p>

    <p>Now, it all comes down to this: Cyclohm has the ability to either prevent hax or cause hax. Before deciding on an ability, it’s best to take a look at your team and see what can cause you trouble. If things like Jirachi and Machamp can be a big deal with the flinching and confusion, it would be a good idea to run Shield Dust. Static is a good ability to have since Cyclohm can really benefit from it with its mediocre Speed, and it can give you the upper-hand in most battles.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <Needed>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Cyclohm has a plethora of support options for a defensive set. For status, it can use either Stun Spore or Thunder Wave to inflict paralysis, depending on if you want the ability to hit Ground types, or if you want to have higher accuracy. Toxic can also be used, if you wish to have the extra damage. Roar is an option if you need a phazer, and Yawn can be used to both phaze and inflict status. Cyclohm also can set up Light Screen, whether it is to strengthen its weaker Special Defense, or to support teammates. However, finding room for these moves can be difficult, even on a defensive set. Cyclohm also has Taunt and Knock Off, though it is not suited to use either of the moves.</p>

    <p>Some sets could make use of Charge Beam in order to raise Cyclohm’s Special Attack, but doing so would sacrifice the extra damage of Thunderbolt or Discharge. If it has Rain Dance support, Cyclohm can also use Thunder, which with its improved accuracy, is an excellent STAB. Cyclohm can additionally provide Rain Dance support of its own, with its bulk and usable Speed, as well as the aforementioned Thunder.</p>

    [EVs]
    <Needed>

    [Opinion]

    <p>Cyclohm is definitely a hard hitter in today's metagame. With most of its offensive options able to put a dent in the majority of OU, it is indeed a force to be reckoned with. Boasting a wide movepool of hard hitting moves such as Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump, Cyclohm manages to make its switch-ins think twice before coming in on it. Even Steel-types must be wary of an attack coming their way.</p>

    <p>Although Cyclohm may be a great offensive threat utilizing its bulk and power to clean up many opposing forces late game, it is especially important to get Cyclohm in safely, as entry hazards and residual damage easily chip away at Cyclohm's health. Cyclohm makes an excellent hit and run pokemon, as it can instantly threaten a wide majority of the metagame and fight back with quite a punch.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Given Cyclohm's powerful attacks, incredible type coverage, and respectable 112 base Special Attack, very little can afford to keep coming in on the more offensive sets. Blissey can sponge up Cyclohm's attacks indefinitely, and can keep Cyclohm on a timer with Toxic. Snorlax can sponge up a few hits (though it will require heavy Special Defense investment to avoid being 2HKO'd by a LO Draco Meteor) and hit back with Earthquake. Swampert can also take hits from Cyclohm not named Draco Meteor and gets STAB on its Earthquake.</p>

    <p>Mamoswine can come in on a predicted Thunderbolt and OHKO all but the bulkiest Cyclohm with STAB Earthquake. Dugtrio can trap Cyclohm and hit it with Earthquake as well, though Cyclohm's bulk usually necessitates a little weakening before Dugtrio can safely knock it out. A Specially Defensive Tyranitar can usually afford to take a hit from Cyclohm and fight back with Earthquake, though it should be wary of Hydro Pump or Surf.</p>

    <p>Latias can absorb non-Dragon moves and hit Cyclohm on its weaker side with a Dragon-type attack of its own. Various other Pokemon with a strong super effective move can revenge kill Cyclohm, such as Salamence, Starmie, or Heatran, but should be careful to ensure that Cyclohm is within KO range before attempting to take it out.</p>
  2. Plus

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    Minor nitpick. Cyclohm has 112 base satk, not 110. You mentioned it as such in the specs set.
  3. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    In the bulky set, you said it has six more Base Defense than Hippowdon. They have equal Defense.

    Incidentally, have you got people working on the unfinished pieces already, are are they open for anyone?
  4. Magmortified

    Magmortified <b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
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    Yeah sorry about that. I just looked up Hippowdon real fast and mistook its Attack for Defense.
  5. VKCA

    VKCA (Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)

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    Shouldn't there be a bulkier wallish set, simmilar to hippowdons first set?
    also
    I think weavile should get a mention, as he can oko the 3 sets listed with Stealth rocks
  6. Namso

    Namso
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    Changes in bold.
  7. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
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    On the Life Orb set, move 12 HP EVs to SA or Speed (Or Defense, or wherever). SA gives it slightly more oomph, Speed means Jolly Mamoswine can at best speed tie you on non-Scarf sets. (Ice Shard does not even come close to OHKOing)

    This will Lower Cyclohms HP to 407, for these reasons:

    1. Life Orb will take 40 HP per use instead of 41.
    2. 407 is the highest value above a Leftovers number that does not incur an additional point of Stealth Rock damage.

    Cyclohm does not learn Fire Blast. It should be Flamethrower/Overheat.
  8. Namso

    Namso
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    One quick thing, I think there should be a separate section for the "Shield Dust or Static?" debate. Both of those abilities work on all of the sets quite well, so I think one section saying the pros of this and the cons of that would be the best way to go. It's better than having one sentence on the first set explaining their uses, but not on the other sets.

    I can write it up if you'd like.
  9. Magmortified

    Magmortified <b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
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    Go for it.

    Hoo boy, that's embarrassing. Fixed.
  10. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
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    A note on the Specs Set:

    You can run either of Surf and Overheat OR Hydro Pump and Flamethrower.

    This is because both Hydro Pump and Overheat are only Egg Moves, and mutually exclusive.
  11. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    I think Surf should be a slashed option anyway. I've never been a fan of inaccuracy. Oh, and Draco Meteor should probably be in the first or second slot, with the water move third.
  12. Namso

    Namso
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    I'm done the "Shield Dust or Static?", I kind of wrote a lot, my bad.

    [Shield Dust or Static?]

    <p>Cyclohm has been granted two very useful abilities to choose from; Shield Dust and Static. Both of these abilities are very useful in their own way, and each of them help Cyclohm differently. With this in mind, it may be quite difficult deciding which ability to use. Each of these abilities serve for different purposes, and the paragraphs below will explain both of the abilities in more detail.</p>

    <p>As you may or may not know, Shield Dust prevents the use of secondary effects from a move to activate. This means that moves such as Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam coming from a Pokemon can no longer burn, paralyze, or freeze the Pokemon with the Shield Dust ability. This ability allows Cyclohm to come in on many hax-based threats such as Jirachi, Machamp, and Togekiss. With this being said, Cyclohm makes great switch-ins to these Pokemon since it won’t be flinched and paralyzed by Iron Head and Body Slam from Jirachi or flinched by Air Slash from Togekiss, and it can’t become confused by Machamp’s DynamicPunch, all of which can be hit hard with Flamethrower and Thunderbolt respectively.</p>

    <p>On the other hand, Cyclohm can use Static to its advantage with its enormous physical bulk. Dangerous physically-based threats such as Gyarados, Mamoswine, and Flygon will have to think twice before attacking you, since they have a 30% chance of being crippled with paralysis. Static can be really helpful in cases where the opponent has boosted their physical sweeper’s Speed with a Choice Scarf or using a Speed-boosting move, which allows you to switch in a Pokemon to revenge-kill the crippled threat.</p>

    <p>Now, it all comes down to this: Cyclohm has the ability to either prevent hax or cause hax. Before deciding on an ability, it’s best to take a look at your team and see what can cause you trouble. If things like Jirachi and Machamp can be a big deal with the flinching and confusion, it would be a good idea to run Shield Dust. Static is a good ability to have since Cyclohm can really benefit from it with its mediocre Speed, and it can give you the upper-hand in most battles.</p>

    Comments appreciated.
  13. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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  14. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    You could add that on the BulkOhm set, if you run Static, Thunderbolt is preferred over Discharge since now the 30% paralysis rate isn't as useful as the power boost.
  15. Namso

    Namso
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    Thanks for the edit.

    I think I would need to go into more detail about Shield Dust because some people don't understand what it does and are misunderstood by it. I just gave a couple of examples and briefly talked about how it helps Cyclohm and what it does.

    @familyguyman

    It could just be mentioned in the set itself.
  16. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    Is there an option for adding sets to the analysis? I've got a Rain Dance Cyclohm that is incredibly viable and it goes like this:
    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Hydro Pump/Surf
    move 4: Draco Meteor
    item: Life Orb/Damp Rock
    nature: Timid
    ability: Shield Dust
    evs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe

    Points (for starters):
    1) 2 180 BP moves in Hydro Pump and Thunder + 1 210 BP move in Draco Meteor + LO = extremely powerful attacking set in Rain
    2) Natural bulk makes it easy to come in and set up Rain
    3) Surf as an option for higher accuracy over Hydro Pump

    I'd throw my hat in the ring for writing a full-blown analysis if people thought it had a chance, but for now I'll just hope for feedback before getting too into it.
  17. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

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    I think a Sub-Support Ohm deserves a write up. I'm using:

    Bold Cyclohm@ Leftovers
    Shield Dust
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Light Screen
    ~ Charge Beam/ Thunder Bolt
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    188 Hp/ 252 SpA/ 70 SpD
  18. Plus

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    What does it do, exactly? It also has no recovery, which bites it in the ass. Is there something that set can exactly do better than, say, Sub Zapdos?
  19. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

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    Besides having a sub that blissey can't break, getting STAB on Dragon and having a killer def stat, oh nothing

    You can add in Slack Off over Light Screen if you feel like it, I just find that Light Screen gives it more lastablity from those special threats
  20. Plus

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    You still lose to Blissey without any form of recovery whatsoever. Heck, even then, it doesn't really matter. If you had Slack off + Toxic Blissey could catch you with Toxic on the Slack off and it's gg for your Cyclohm right there. Who cares if Blissey can't penetrate toss in 1 shot when Cyclohm is a sitting duck? I could say that Skarmory has killer defense stats. Would you run Substitute on it?
  21. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

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    And what can Zap do to blissey that makes it a better choice? U -Turn out? At least Cyclohm can put up a light screen before switching out.

    Yes I realize Zap gets Light Screen too, but this set is great substitute for a bulky calm minder set.
  22. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    Zapdos can outstall Blissey with Pressure.
  23. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    Uh, SubRoost?
  24. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    I think I've used Cyclohm enough to contribute part of the Opinion section.

    Cyclohm has a lot to say for himself with his great move pool and statistical distribution along with rather unique and useful abilities. His typing is a mixed bag. While having excellent resistances he is weak to the omni-present Earthquake as well as Ice and Dragon attacks and the users of these attacks tend to out speed Cyclohm and hit him hard. That being said, don't let this deter you from what can be a really valuable team member. Being one of the best counters to Scizor and able to take on ANY physical wall in OU and come out on top is something not many can say. If you keep Cyclohm safe and use him wisely, you'll have a real force that can be a wonderful asset to any team.


    If you think it's good take whatever parts from it you want.


    Cheers!
  25. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

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    I already said throw in slack off if you feel like it, it's better than Roost anyways thanks to Roost making Zapdos vulnerable to EQ.

    Pressure stalling is a good point, but once again Cyclohm gets STAB on one of the best Attacking types in the game and a 404 sub. It should at least be mentions in the options section. I will say I have put this set to good use however, once all of cyclohm's counters have gone.
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