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Cyclohm Analysis Workshop

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Magmortified, Jun 8, 2009.

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  1. Sc4rfCh0mp

    Sc4rfCh0mp

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    However, what Plus and etc. have been arguing with you about is how this fares against BLISSEY compared to Zapdos. This moveset you have is lol'ed at by Blissey. You have no status to attempt to cripple it with outside of Thunderbolt hax, which might be replaced with Charge Beam. Dragon Pulse doesn't even do 15% damage to Blissey, which means Blissey is taking less than 10% damage from each of your attacks, while Seismic Toss breaks your sub after 2 hits. In other words, Blissey can easily outstall you. Light Screen? Against Blissey? This is why Seismic Toss was invented: so Blissey doesn't fail when a Light Screen is set up.

    Defensive Zapdos usually carry Toxic to force Blissey out in order to heal itself. SubRoost also walls Blissey when used in conjunction with Toxic, since Blissey either fails to status or is Presusrestalled out.

    A substitute set isn't bad, though. I just think that SubSupport is not a good idea for Cyclohm if you're not going to consider Toxic. A SubBerry strategy would work a lot better, or cyberzero's SubOhm.
  2. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    Suggesting a set which worked for me during playtesting:

    [SET]
    name: Blizzohm
    move 1: Discharge/Thunderbolt
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Shield Dust
    evs: 176 HP /
    82 SAtk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]


    <p>Cyclohm's typing allows for it to be a decent support pokemon to Hail Teams, resisting both Fire attacks, Electric Attacks, and Water Attacks from any Bulky Waters, while being able to eliminate several pokemon that resist Ice-Attacks.</p>

    <p>Discharge and Tunderbolt are both listed for the traditional 'Do I choose sheer power or a higher chance to cripple my foe?' problem, although both are viable, Thunderbolt is suggested, due to the fact that this Cyclohm is used to remove counters to Ice-Types. Flamethrower allows Cyclohm to decimate opposing Ice-types, Steel Types that resist Ice attacks, and to help give better covrage for Cyclohm's Bolt-Beam, which is only resisted by Brongzong in OU, and Lanturn. (Who is never seen in OU)
    In Hail, Cyclohm gains a Base 100 Ice Attack in the form of Weather Ball, which forms a better-than-boltbeam combination, coming off from a respectable 280 sp.attack. Weather Ball can OHKO many things that think they are safe aginst Cyclohm, usually the slow Ground types. It takes out opposing Dragons that are X4 weak to it, including Garchomps lacking Yache Berry (Although, these dragons need to be caught on the switch-in, due to higher speed).</p>

    <p>The EV's listed allow Cyclohm to reach a number of benchmarks. 401 HP is given, to take 5 Tosses to KO. Speed reaches 284, which outspeeds all normal Cyclohm varients, and any base 90 that does not run a Speed+ Nature (Without Speed+, they cap out at 279). The rest are put into special attack, to maximise damage, although, some EV's can be taken out of speed if you don't want to ensure a speed tie against all fellow Base 80's.</p>

    [Team Options]
    Abomasnow is a given for this particular set, as he can start a continuous Hail. Ice-types in general are good paired with Cyclohm, as often he'll be the victim of a faster Dragon, and this set clears out types which wall Ice-types. Articuno warrents a mention, as Cyclohm X4 resists Electric attacks, and Articuno is immune to Ground Attacks.

    [Other Options]
    This Cyclohm can also be used on a Sandstorm team, gaining a base 100 Rock Move, although, the support he gives this type of team is slightly more limited, as it a Fire/Rock/Electric combination.
  3. Plus

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    Blissey doesn't pack a Ground move, and can nullify Ice beam's 2x to a 1x, making it not able to break a sub. Please stop making one sided arguments. Your set doesn't even make that much use of Dragon STAB as compared to the other sets. Your set just looks like sub with a screen and 2 moves. I've seen all the sets in the analysis play much better than any Sub Clohm I have seen. Hell, even the stall players are running Slack Off + 3 Attacks. 404 subs mean shit if you can't do anything to Blissey anyways.
  4. hydrolphin

    hydrolphin

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    @Mag, if you need me to, I can take the other options section. I have tested/seen a lot of the more novelty sets.
  5. tennisace

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    Replace the bolded part with the Pokemon of your choice.
  6. Stellar

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    I've been using the first set with Thunder + Rain Dance support so you might want to add in a paragraph detailing the set's use with Rain. It boosts Thunder's accuracy and Surf's power. Don't add in Thunder as an option, but at least mention it in the set's details.
  7. Magmortified

    Magmortified <b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
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    Guys, it'd really help if you provided good reasoning as to why your set should be included in there. Taicho just seems to be throwing a few facts about Cyclohm up without any regards as to why they're good for the set, and I can't even begin to think why I'd use Weather Ball Cyclohm.

    Go for it.

    Hmm. Sounds cool.
  8. Deck Knight

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    I don't know if this would be good for Other Options or its own set, but here I go:

    [SET]
    name: Curseohm
    move 1: Volt Tackle
    move 2: Curse
    move 3: Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Quiet
    ability: Shield Dust / Static
    evs: 200 HP / 16 Atk / 32 Def / 44 SAtk / 216 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Cyclohm's greatest offensive threats tend to be physically oriented pokemon that don't like to switch into strong special attacks. The other kind of pokemon that try to take it down use unSTABBed special attacks. This set offers a means to deal with both.</p>

    <p>Curse boosts Cyclohms already immense defense to huge heights, rendering unSTABbed Earthquakes ineffective at taking it out. One Curse Boost gives Cyclohm 240 Attack and 420 Defense. Volt Tackle is still mediocre with one boost, but makes up for it with a high Base Power.</P>

    <p>Although it seems strange at first, the special attack investment is what ties the set together. At 298 SA, Cyclohm can OHKO Offensive Latias with Draco Meteor, and deal massive damage to physically oriented pokemon expecting a full physical set. The overall bulk of this set allows it to be used as hit-and-run before a Curse attempt, Draco Meteoring anything dangerous or using Slack Off on something that can't muster enough damage. Dragon Pulse does not get as many KOs, but is more consistent and can be used repeatedly.</p>

    <p>Toxic is ruinious to the set, but it can boast a defeat to non-Toxic Blissey. Slack Off Recovers 203 HP each use, making Seismic Toss and Flamethrower ineffective. The high Special Defense investment catches light special attackers off guard, especially Water types who follow up with an Ice Beam that deals far less damage than anticipated. It is especially effective at sponging special attacks under Light Screen.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p>Light Screen support is amazing, boosting Cyclohm's effective SpD to 460. Bronzong is an excellent partner, resisting all of Cyclohm's weaknesses while Cyclohm switches into Flamethrower effortlessly in return. Toxic can wear this set down over time, so having a Cleric is not a bad idea. Celebi is a strong candidate for its resistance to Ground attacks.</p>
  9. Korski

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    Alright I'm putting this out there. I think the set is usable enough to warrant its own set, but I'll wait for some feedback before pushing for it too hard.

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Hydro Pump/Surf
    move 4: Draco Meteor
    item: Life Orb/Damp Rock/Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Shield Dust
    evs: 248 HP/ 8 SpA/ 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    As a thundercloud dragon, Cyclohm is naturally suited to thrive in the rain. It's tremendous defenses and valuable resistances make it fairly easy to come in and cause switches, giving it a free turn to set up Rain Dance.

    Once rain is up, Cyclohm will be ready to sweep with its high-powered attacks. Thunder will most likely be your main attacking option, due to STAB and its 100% accuracy in rain. Hydro Pump gets pseudo-STAB in rain, making it just as powerful as Thunder in case any Ground-types think they can come in and force Cyclohm out. Hydro Pump's 80% accuracy is a little shaky, though, in which case you may opt for Surf's 142 BP in Rain and its 100% accuracy for a little more confidence at the expense of some power. The Electric/Water attacking combo is resisted by Dragon and Grass-types only, so Draco Meteor fills the last spot as Cyclohm's only real option to hit them if you predict they'll try and set up as you switch, but it will typically be used in last-ditch situations.

    The choice of item is completely dependent upon what role Cyclohm is playing on the team. Life Orb will guarantee you the 2HKO on Metagross switch-ins with Thunder and on Mixpert with Hydro Pump followed by Draco Meteor. It also OHKOs Dugtrio, Mamoswine, non-Scarf Heatran, and Hippowdon with Hydro Pump and any Dragon-type with Draco Meteor. If you need Cyclohm mainly for being a sturdy Rain Dancer and not so much for sweeping, then Damp Rock is the better option. Leftovers is an option for longer survivability, but you'll often find that the power of Life Orb or the lengthening of rain are much better options.

    The EVs are similar to the Life Orb set, except that there have been 48 EVs moved from SpA to HP to help better survive the hard-hitting attackers that will be switching in to take Cyclohm down. With the higher-powered attacks, though, the set hits just as hard, if not harder. 419 HP is just shy of losing an extra stat point to Life Orb recoil, and it also means you'll always survive an EQ at full health from Metagross, CB Dugtrio, CB Tyranitar, Flygon, Salamence, and Swampert, all of which can be defeated one-on-one with Life Orb. You'll also survive an Ice Beam from Life Orb Starmie or non-Life Orb Porygon-Z, both of which you can OHKO with Thunder. Max Speed allows you to speed tie with Mamoswine and other base 80s and outrun neutral nature base 90s, notably Adamant Lucario, who has a 66% chance of being OHKO'd by Thunder.

    This Cyclohm works well on standard Rain Dance teams, naturally, but it also does well on its own. If you aren't running dedicated Rain Dance, having Blissey on hand to take on the special attackers like Starmie, Scarftran, and Stratagem that would hinder a sweep is useful. Gyarados can come in on anything Scarftran will be throwing at you bar Explosion and Bronzong can take on Starmie's assault and scare off Stratagem with Gyro Ball. If you are running dedicated Rain Dance, Kingdra can come in and revenge anything that takes Cyclohm down or set up Dragon Dance while the opponent switches out and sweep on its own.
  10. hydrolphin

    hydrolphin

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    [Other Options]

    <p>Cyclohm has a plethora of support options for a defensive set. For status, it can use both Stun Spore and Thunder Wave to inflict paralysis, depending on if you want the ability to hit ground types, or if you want to have higher accuracy. Toxic can also be used, if you wish to have the extra damage. Roar is an option if you need a phazer, and Yawn can be used to both phaze and inflict status. Cyclohm also can set up Light Screen, whether it is to strengthen its weak special defense, or to support teammates. However, finding room for these moves can be difficult, even on a defensive set. Cyclohm also has Taunt and Knock Off, but it is not suited to use either of the moves.</p>
    <p>Some sets could make use of Charge Beam in order to raise Clyclohm’s Special Attack, but doing so would sacrifice the extra damage of Thunderbolt or Discharge. If you wish to use an even higher powered Electic attack, Thunder can be used with Rain Dance for perfect accuracy. Clyclohm does not have much in the way of othe special attacks, with only Signal Beam not being mentioned. A novelty Dragon Dance set with Volt Tackle and Outrage, but due to Cyclohm’s relitavly low Attack and Speed, it is generally outclassed by Salamence. Curse is also usable in the place of Dragon Dance. A SubSlack Off set is usable, but generally outclassed by Zapdos.</p>
    ________________________________________________________
    As you see, some suggested sets are mentioned here, but they can just be removed if they need to be. Any other suggestions.
  11. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    A lot of Pokémon on a Rain team obviously pack Water attacks, and Electric/Dragon already gets wonderful coverage (The only Pokémon who would resist this combo won't like the brutal force of most Rain Dance sweepers, although switching into Magnezone could be tricky for such teams). Why not put Slack Off as an option over the water attack? Having such a reliable Rain Dancer would also let you use just 2 setuppers instead of three and put an additional sweeper in the squad, which thanks to its 3 or 4 moves will probably have a better time sweeping, compared to Cyclohm itself. Obviously, if you use this Cyclohm in a non-Rain Dance team then the Water moves are superior choices.
  12. Korski

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    Thanks, zarator. Here are the changes I made:

  13. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    Something I was thinking about for Offensive Cyclohm is to not make it a worse Zapdos. Zapdos can get Electric, Fire and Grass/Ice which is comparable to Dragon, Electric, Water/Fire and with Zapdos' higher special attack and speed along with very good bulk himself, he's a good candidate for a similar role. Cyclohm has extra bulk, physically, no Stealth Rock weakness and a better offensive movepool but Zapdos is immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Earthquake and doesn't die to special attacks.

    Furthermore, Cyclohm's ground, ice, dragon weakness makes him hard to pair up for defensive coverage as only Bronzong covers them and they make it difficult to fit in things like Heatran on the same team when you add in the fact that Cyclohm does not resist Fighting which makes it hard to add in things like Snorlax who would compliment Cyclohm nicely otherwise.

    All things considered though, Cyclohm is still a very powerful threat but restricts the team around him more than others. Ice + Ground is a very strong attacking combination and being weak to both is not a good thing IMO.
  14. tennisace

    tennisace
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    I don't get where you're going with this. First, you don't want it to be a worse Zapdos. Ok. Then you compare it to Zapdos without telling us why Zapdos is/isn't better.

    What about the resistances to Steel, Fire, Water, Flying, Grass, and Electric? Combined with the fact that you have a team of 6 Pokemon, not 2, I don't get why you're downplaying Cyclohm's strengths. You should cover most threats with your entire team, not just a combo. That kind of thinking won't get you anywhere.

    Ok, but it has great stats, good defensive typing otherwise, and an amazing attacking/support movepool.

    The biggest question is: What does this have to do with the analysis?
  15. VKCA

    VKCA (Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)

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    @familyguyman
    So Ohm can be an inferior Zapdos, are you saying in the opinions section it should be mentioned? Otherwise like tennis said what does it have to do with the analysis?
  16. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    Oh, ok, my point was that it should be mentioned to avoid making Cyclohm an inferior Zapdos, who I feel can do an all out offensive set better, particularly against Stall, once Blissey is gone.

    Compare Defensive Typing:
    Cyclohm:
    Resistances: Electric, Fire, Water, Flying, Grass, Steel
    Weaknesses: Ground, Ice, Dragon

    Zapdos:
    Resistances: Fighting, Ground, Flying, Grass, Bug, Steel
    Weaknesses: Rock, Ice


    I don't see why Cyclohm has a better supporting movepool either,

    Zapdos can screen better thanks to reflect, both can roar, thunder wave/discharge.

    Cyclohm has Yawn and Stun Spore but that's nothing game breaking.


    About the Ice Ground weaknesses. A general rule I find many people try to adhere to is to not have more than two pokemon weak to the same type but Ground/Ice is a very strong typing combination which means it's hard to follow this rule and it can limit your team.


    So basically, I am saying both can fill similar roles and it is important to play to Cyclohm's strengths, namely it's dragon typing, physical bulk and slightly better offensive move pool.

    This can be mentioned in Opinion or in sets where this kind of comparison is applicable such as LO offensive sets.
  17. Deck Knight

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    Place a note on Mamoswine regarding Static. Neither Earthquake, Stone Edge, nor Ice Shard are contact attacks, so Mamoswine is not really affected by Static unless you switch Cyclohm into Superpower.
  18. tennisace

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    Why would you ever switch Cyclohm into Mamoswine?
  19. Deck Knight

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    This paragraph used to have Mamoswine in it.

    Flygon is more sketchy since Earthquake doesn't activate, but U-Turn and Outrage do and Flygon have a high propensity for U-Turning early.
  20. Magmortified

    Magmortified <b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
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    Hey guys, just wanted to point this out in response to a few of the gimmicks being posted lately:


    Anyhow, could still use the Other Options, Team Options, Opinion, and EVs. If anybody's interested, drop me a PM.
  21. hydrolphin

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    Uhh... I already did that

  22. Namso

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    hydro, is it ok if I work with what you have so far? I'd like to add/fix some stuff, and I wanted to do the Other Options section, but didn't notice that you already did it.
  23. umbr

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    Insert a semicolon or a period between "up" and "Surf."

    Insert a semicolon between "often" and "this."

    Omit "being" between "options" and "able."

    Just some small grammar issues. Keep up the good work.
  24. Raj

    Raj CAP Playtesting Expert

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    HP mentioned twice is all I found wrong with it
  25. hydrolphin

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    Sure, go ahead.
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