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CAP 8 Cyclohm Playtesting

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by DougJustDoug, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. Ritsi_Time

    Ritsi_Time

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    Okay, I've had much better results with this variant on Choice Band Hippowdon:

    Cyclohm @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Shield Dust
    EVs: 252 HP/132 Def/124 SAtk
    Modest
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    - Slack Off

    A very good set in general. Had Draco Meteor but I prefer Dragon Pulse because it means Cyclohm can stay in and do more damage, especially late-game. Dragon / Electric / Fire gives unresisted coverage, and I find Flamethrower is really useful with all the Steel types about, Magnezone especially, who would wall it otherwise.
  2. Duskie

    Duskie Boats n Hoes

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    Today is the first day i attempted to play test,and i must say that i liked it alot.

    Moving on..i think the only Cyclohm set i felt threatening was the bulky set.The choiced sets were used just like any other dragon,and with that said it was just as easy to deal with them.The bulky set on the other hand has all the same moves, but no choice which means it's safe to pritty much dismantle alot of teams given it's movepool.Lack of being revenge killed by the better priority users like Scizor make it mroe of a hassle.

    Fun and intersting testing overall.
  3. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    A set I've been trying to good success is in fact a DD set.

    Cyclohm
    @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpA
    Shield Dust
    Naughty

    Move Set:
    Dragon Dance
    Volt Tackle
    Dragon Claw/Outrage
    Overheat/Hydro Pump

    Comment: Cyclohm has a few things going for him naturally. Top tier typing, top tier movepool in terms of diversity and coverage and a lot of bulk with great stats to back it up. This means he can force a lot of switches with a lot of threats (Scarf, Thunder Wave, pure power) and when he does, he can DD with ease. Yes, with these stats, he's not all that strong even after a boost but with his move set, he can lay some pain. Firstly, if the opponent switches in a special wall, you can get another boost if you want or hurt a lot. Volt Tackle can easily kill a lot of things in one shot from Machamp to Blissey. You also get the speed to out speed and break most dragons, however I find this pairs well with a dragon slayer to help him switch in more since he's not naturally swift. Wish support is greatly appreciated since between LO and VT, Cyclohm won't last long (but long enough to sweep a team I think).

    With a DD'd Outrage, Cyclohm can last a bit longer since he won't need VT to lay max pain but the reliable, drawback free and still powerful Dragon Claw is sweet. Between Overheat and Hydro Pump, I have not found a better option since Steels are not Cyclohm's friend and it's nice to not have to rely on VT to beat them. I find this set also pairs well with Skarmory who's Spikes (with Stealth Rock) makes for a lot of softening which really helps with the most bulky threats who aren't weak to what Cyclohm can throw at them.

    A strong Ice user really helps offensively to clear strong dragons and bulky ground types (without Hydro Pump). Starmie, I think, makes a good choice due to high speed and very strong attacks which give excellent coverage (water, ice, grass with dragon, electric, fire is absolutely devastating).

    I am really liking Cyclohm though, I can't wait to see how he does against the other CaPs.


    EDIT: Actually, what do you all think of Dragon Rush over Dragon Claw? I know the accuracy sucks but with the speed to use the flinch and much appreciated power boost over Dragon Claw it might just be a bit more viable (hello Gravity team!)
  4. HD

    HD

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    I personally use Cyclohm as a scarfed revenge killer, and he works wonders. Heres the set:

    Cyclohm@ChoiceScarf
    EVs: 86 HP/252 Spe/172 SpA
    Nature: Timid
    Moveset:
    ~Draco Meteor
    ~Surf
    ~Flamethrower
    ~Shadow Ball

    All of the dragons are revenge killed, Heatran, Nape and other Ground/Rock/Fire types: Flamethrower takes on Steels, Celebis and anything weak to it and Shadow Ball takes things like the Rotoms, Gengar and Azelf. He's a reliable Revenge killer and could also sweep late game with Draco Meteor when steels and special walls are gone. The 86 in HP is for a little extra bulk.
  5. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    Why did you choose Shadow Ball over Thunderbolt?
  6. Coronis

    Coronis A loaded god complex, cock it and pull it.
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    he said it takes Azelf/Gengar/Rotom, but i think t-bolt would easily take Gengar and Azelf, and Dragon Pulse would take a heavy toll on Rotom...
  7. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    So yeah, my final verdict on a real DD set is that it is a waste of potential. IMO, Kingdra, Salamence and Dragonite can all do the same thing better. All Cyclohm has over those three is more bulk and the element of surprise. This means Cyclohm will either have to drop his defenses or just not hit hard which makes him not as effective as he could be. IMO, in order for Cyclohm to be as effective as the above three, he will have to get 2 DDs in or else luring Cyclohm into a weak Outrage and switching to Metagross or Heatran will be easy and Cyclohm will go down fast.

    Furthermore, Latias must be noted as a counter. Cyclohm relies on super coverage to do damage and Latias can take anything he throws outside of Dragon attacks in style. It is very easy to lure Cyclohm into a non-Dragon attack since the temptation for a super-effective hit over a neutral or resisted hit is too much to give up, especially with that sweet dual STAB. Once Latias is in, she out speeds, easily OHKOs or chases him off. Also, a ScarfLatias with max speed will out speed any Cyclohm not doing the same after 2 DDs, which if it is doing, it will need some attack EVs making this another fault to that idea. I could see him causing a need for a SubCM Latias set though, which is cool.

    The metagame is still young with Cyclohm and a DD set will always remain an option but once people get the idea, he's too easy to counter. Play to Cyclohm's strengths and you'll be much more impressed. He's an absolute beast in the late game when Blissey and the faster Dragons are out of play because he will start hitting everything hard, especially with Life Orb. He's even scarier with paralysis support too.
  8. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

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    I've been going with
    Cyclohm@ Leftovers
    Shield Dust
    Light Screen
    Substitute
    Dragon Pulse
    Thunderbolt
    188 HP/ 252 SpA/ 70 Spe

    Works pretty well as a bulky attacker, but my biggest complaint is the lack of a boosting move. Charge Beam is an option but it's a slow grueling option that generally leads to being walled.
  9. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    I don't really see the point of running a Scarf on something with 112 attack. The only usable Scarfers with attacking stats below 130 are ones that use Trick or U-Turn (or possibly Dugtrio, but they typically run Band since they're so fast anyway). Cyclohm can't do those things and isn't quite as useful as a revenge killer/wall crippler imo, but if you like it, I have some suggestions to improve the set.

    I'm not sure why you're running max speed on this thing. At max, you're still just short of outrunning SubPetaya Empoleon (which would really only be of note if you ran Thunderbolt) and you don't really outrun anything of note. Here are some other speed numbers I would consider:

    236 EVs: 420. The highest I would go with a Scarf set, to outrun scarfed, neutral nature base 90s, of whom I could only conceive of Porygon-Z or Lucario effectively doing (and if they run +Spe, you lose anyway).

    232 EVs: 418. Outruns Timid ScarfTran. Probably the level I would be most comfortable at.

    200 EVs: 405. Outruns Adamant Scarfed Heracross.

    176 EVs: 394. Outruns max speed base 130s, max speed Scarfed base 70s, and is the lowest I would go.

    And you should max SpA, because the HP isn't helping you much at all. You'll still survive CB Mamo Ice Shard (591 Atk vs 272 Def & 357 HP (40 Base Power): 188 - 224 (52.66% - 62.75%)) with no EV investment in defenses, and you'll have a roughly 1/4 chance of OHKOing w/ Flamethrower if SR is on the field (Fire Blast ups it to 87% and Overheat guarantees it, if you're considering switching to higher-powered moves, which I think you should to make up for the lower SpA). If you max SpA, you can still put the remaining EVs that you took out of speed into HP.

    Even at 323 SpA, you still only have a 46% chance of OHKOing Naive Azelf, 15% chance of OHKOing Gengar, and 0% chance of OHKOing Starmie or Scarf Rotom with Shadow Ball if they switch into SR and don't invest at all in defense (which they don't). Draco Meteor guarantees KOs on all of them (except Rotom, which has 46% chance to OHKO, and the RestTalk set takes <50% max damage, so you can forget about that) w/ SR, so Shadow Ball is really not terribly useful for revenge killing unless the opponent's already taken some good damage. I would replace it with Thunder or Thunderbolt for STAB and a good way to take out Adamant Gyarados after a DD.

    And I wouldn't be so quick to saying Heatran is revenge-killed by Surf:
    323 Atk vs 248 Def & 323 HP (95 Base Power): 178 - 210 (55.11% - 65.02%)

    And here's if you switch in to 4 HP/ 0 SpD Offensive CM Latias after a CM to revenge it:
    323 Atk vs 444 Def & 302 HP (140 Base Power): 218 - 260 (72.19% - 86.09%)

    You would need Overheat to guarantee a 0/0 Magnezone KO without taking a big hit from HP Ice.

    And I could go on, but the point I'm trying to make is that ScarfOhm is kind of a waste of potential. Even with the surprise factor of running Scarf, you're not getting the necessary damage output to take advantage of it. Once the opponent sees you're faster than its Latias, he/she'll switch it out and save it for later and all you've done is locked yourself into a move and given the opponent the upper hand. But hey, if it's working for you, I say keep with it.
  10. zarator

    zarator ^_^
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    Everything admiral korski said, plus one other thing. Whenyou use a Scarf revenge killer, you must always be careful not to turn your scarfer into a setup fodder. Things like Scarfmence, Scarfgon, Scarftran work because the power combined of their attack stats and their STAB moves allow them to threaten the majority of the metagame. things like Shadow Ball will leave you wide open to a lot of setuppers. It is better IMO to Thunderbolt Azelf, Gengar etc. and leave them with 10% HP or so than kill them and let a DD Tar or DD Mence come in and set up on you. Moreover, while many Scarfers have the speed to outrun most Dragon Dancers after a single setup (it was the case of Scarfchomp), Cyclohm lack such speed, so if you let a Salamence Dragon Dance in your face you cannot come back and revenge him like Garchomp could. Neutral coverage is much more important than supereffective coverage whenever you use a Choice item, and this is of even more relevance when you opt for Choice Scarf.
  11. Joatmon

    Joatmon

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    If you have battled me at all, you know that I have been having quite a bit of fun with Expert Belt Mamoswine. It gives me the versatility of Life Orb while still hitting plenty strong. That, and if anyone hasn't battled me for some reason, they assume Choice Band, which nets me a few surprise Kills.

    Also, I find Kingdra to be excellent in playtesting. I run enough EVs to outspeed Mamoswine and Cyclohm without Rain, something which has also netted several surprise kills and turn the tables on several opponents.

    Scizor/Lucario are pains to deal with as usual, but they always are. I will be sure to post more feedback later.
  12. tennisace

    tennisace it's The DragonKnight, dumbass
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    C&C Chief

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    I'd have to disagree with you there, I need to run Adamant with LO just to hit things hard enough. Superpower doesn't even deal 50% to Bronzong on the switch. I refuse to run Choice Band because late game I'm screwed if I can't switch moves. However Mamoswine is still one of the most useful Pokemon to have on a team right now.
  13. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    Sweep late game? You have Draco Meteor, that's no sweeping move. And there's no point of Shadow Ball since DC is already on the set.
  14. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    I am currently running this set:

    Cyclohm
    @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SpA
    Shield Dust
    Bold

    Move Set:
    Dragon Pulse
    Thunderbolt
    Flamethrower
    Slack Off

    Comment: An amazing late game sweeper. I personally love Life Orb Tanks (like with a recovery move) such as Starmie and Flygon. Cyclohm has perfect coverage and this particular set can destroy many top threats that is out speeds such as Scizor. Once it's in, nothing can really switch in safely. Even neutral Thunderbolts can OHKO if Salamence has seen a couple of prior switch ins, so Roar support is very useful. If your prediction is spot on and you've scouted your opponents team, you can predict a switch in and DP Latias or Salamence or Flygon to death. Alternatively, you could add more speed to outspeed neutral nature speed Lucario and OHKO but that kind of set is better left to Starmie. Speaking of Starmie, it's a perfect compliment when armed with a Life Orb. Once Blissey is down, nothing can stop both from rampaging. Maybe they can stop one but not both as their coverage is too strong. Starmie over Azelf for extra bulk and a VERY needed Ice resist. Basically, I love Cyclohm!
  15. Roserade Raider

    Roserade Raider

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    running the same set, and i have to agree, this set kills more than the terminator
  16. Joatmon

    Joatmon

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    Posting to say that the EV Spread is inefficient. Modest w/ 252 HP/112 Def/136SpAtk Gives you the same stats with 8 EVs leftover.
  17. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    Thanks for the tip. I didn't know EVs could be inefficient.
  18. tennisace

    tennisace it's The DragonKnight, dumbass
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a CAP Contributor Alumnus
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    Huh? You're confusing Shield Dust with Tinted Lens I think, Shield Dust only prevents secondary effects like Iron Head flinch.
  19. Raj

    Raj CAP Playtesting Expert

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    Heh, you're right lol...
    Anyways, I still manage to Outrage through Steels no problem (including Forry)..
  20. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    Even with its mediocre Attack stat, Altaria can cause havoc with its Dragon Danced Outrages, especially in UU. This set holds a fair bit of power, and after a Dragon Dance will easily OHKO many Pokémon such as standard Venusaur and Hypno, provided Stealth Rock is in play. Earthquake provides great coverage with Outrage, hitting all of UU for at least neutral damage (except Shedinja).


    Yeah, anything with DD and STAB Outrage can do big damage, but Cyclohm can do oh so much more and is even weaker than Altaria (and just as fast).
  21. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    Playtesting will end June 15th at 11:30PM US central time (which is when the rating period is closed, and permanant ratings are calculated). Good luck to everyone vying for the custom title of "CAP Playtesting Champion"!
  22. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    Congratulations to Magmortified for winning the custom title of "CAP Playtesting Expert"!

    Mag will keep the title until the next CAP is playtested.

    And BTW, don't post a bunch of questions in this thread or any other to ask when the next CAP will start. We don't follow a set timeline here. When the next CAP starts, it will be announced very obviously here in the forum and on the Smogon website.
  23. Infiltrator

    Infiltrator

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    Let me be second to congrats Magmortified =D
  24. reyscarface

    reyscarface
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    Congrats Mag, theres always a second time, ill find you on ladder for CAP 9 >_>
  25. Plus

    Plus mac daddy dragon of the NYC
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

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    Congratulations for stealing my ct

    [​IMG]

    the torch is passed to you my friend

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